BladeValant546

While Skyrim would be impossible you can make a story Co-Op based and make it work perfectly all you need is good writers and ambitious programmers. If people think its impossible then it will never happen, people need to learn to find a way and make it awesome! Now for the Skryim Mod....dude I agree with the programmer here the networking involved (which you have to make you own net code) It worth nearly a year salary to make and not to mention the pain in the butt to make the client even work. One day a person will prove you all wrong and make an Awesome Elder Scrolls style game with co-op and it will dynamic.

Am I the only one who knows the semantic difference between complex and complicated? I personally do not know what Skyrim gonna be like, and I feel like there only the minority who will critically criticize choices if they feel it in the wrong direction instead blindly follow a choice because i do not know why to be honest. I however would not blame consoles or anything like that, but dumbing down is an issue (Mass Effect, Halo, Call of Duty, Final Fantasy, Dragon Age, Fable, Command and Conquer, WoW are one I can think on the top of my dead as popular games). I personally believe that Skyrim can be good, but there is a large margin that lends to a potential of messing it up. People need to learn to discuss I think the idea they have done might work, but I am worried as a ES fan. Thank you, do not worry, Bethesda has not jumped on the mainstream bandwagon....yet. PS :psyduck: POKEMON!

I miss the 75% resistant to shock on Nords from Morrowind. That was literally, the biggest disappoint I faced when I made my first character. Well since Agility not longer exists IDK about being more agile minus a slight increase. But I hope races are more in depth maybe ORCs are stronger and take more damage. I don't know well have to wait and see.

But those game did not have the ability to get on roof tops nor are they first person, again I think there are other solutions to hide the attributes. Remember in ME (I going off of ME1 not 2) The generalized assumption is you need the numbers to have progress. In ME your character are practically the same strength, speed, and athletic ability. In TW you still have str, and also you also had more skills than you do in ES that helped with the lack of attributes but I think you had 4 in Two Worlds. I just think that attributes need to be present in some shape or way, RPG is not just about role playing it also making your character grow, that how it started. I only want games to be it top potential not miss it, I believe that is fair to push that. I think Strength, athletics, and such can be made invisible via real time body effects. But what about Dex, intelligence, wisdom how are those even conceive what will set me apart from you? Basically what I am saying is there is large margin of error here, just like Fallout you might face the lack of character diversity in terms of roles and ability which with out very good AI personality only applies to the most imaginative person. I think it possible it can work but you have to have them in in some way some shape. I think your right it is an old idea and it need work but I think it needs to evolve not go away.

Yeah that's a huge problem but the concept is still great. I still hope that developers could make a game like that gives a sense of reward while being realistic. I guess we are stuck here till we find a solution. @ redhorizon09; I was being retorical. Not to sound prideful, but I came up with some ideas that will fix this issue. I believe something needs to be done but there still needs to be attributes in some way shape or form, either real time body or what not but like the answers I got.

That is true this is a better means, and this is what I been saying. A choice that can have better alternatives means that the choice might not be the best choice. Personally in my opinion I think more complex=better game. However people do not understand the difference of complicated vs complex. Complexity means everything has a point and usefulness, while complicated means everything typically is tough to figure out, this can because of several reasons. I just want complex games with deep skills not less in my opinion. Again it hard to tell since I do not have the game :)

What?....Dude stop trying to start an argument I gave no intention of not changing my mind, hell I already changed my mind on the attributes for the most part I read the people agruements. Your the one starting an argument about WHAT I meant. The context was solely and purely about game companies not fixing things, instead they scrap it......If your not gonna even attempt to resolve conflict please just stay on topic. I am trying to remain peaceful with you but your are testing my patience. Hector I Personally 100% agree with you on the perks, they will be like Feats atleast If Bethesda is smart about. Feats come with skills, like daggers you get a slit throat feat, I LOVE feats if they work that way then Skyrim will be awesome. But I agree with your statement about jumping around like a retard. I was merely stating my opinion that they could have made jumping around usufuly like adding climbing and platforming like in Mirrors Edge or Brink, I think Thief did that too. I mean how cool would it be Hector to climb into a window or attic or run away via roof tops. You cannot tell me that would not be cool. But I understand it was kind of retarded just jumping like a moron, or better yet like a halo bunny rabbit lol.

What are you talking about? Ad Hom attacks are not welcome (if thats what your implying.) but you got me confused again I was referring to the gaming industry as referenced to the context of my post. Again, if you took it like that then that was not the meaning. Ask questions if you feel there was a miss communication not throw insults I never did to you. To others, hector I see your point, again I stated my opinion and I respectfully disagree with you even though you present a good argument against it. However, I just feel there are other alternatives and this does in fact limit customization as it limits the rouge class to the ground ;). Again I feel there could have been other solutions.

Well people why is it so wrong that you be a ninja and jump from roof tops to roof tops. What if they add freerunning like Assassin creed style with ability to use this ability to gain entrance to houses. Why is everything have to be realistic, reality states that my bones and muscle can do so much. I want to be able jump around like a lemur monkey, or alteast have the choice lol. I mean I can live with the attributes removed (sort of still bothers me lol), but with out agility it seems like a grounded game were your choice is more nailed to the ground. Okay, puns aside I still think this will be unpopular thing and it will show but that is my opinion only and that is with out playing it. because Assassin's creed was built around freerunning and climbing anywhere and in oblivion and especially morrowind acrobatics was a skill used for one thing and one thing only..... to cheat. having Athletics and acrobatics at 100 or above made you untouchable in both games. Again, instead of scrapping it, make it work better, and btw what about magic and other things I could use aka 100% chameleon. I think it you fix things there is still no justification to scrapping it. Innovate and add those elements and thus you create a better game. Sadly, be years before we see pushing limits of customization. I know there was a problem, but it was not a game breaking issue that could not be fixed.

Well people why is it so wrong that you be a ninja and jump from roof tops to roof tops. What if they add freerunning like Assassin creed style with ability to use this ability to gain entrance to houses. Why is everything have to be realistic, reality states that my bones and muscle can do so much. I want to be able jump around like a lemur monkey, or alteast have the choice lol. I mean I can live with the attributes removed (sort of still bothers me lol), but with out agility it seems like a grounded game were your choice is more nailed to the ground. Okay, puns aside I still think this will be unpopular thing and it will show but that is my opinion only and that is with out playing it.

I don't know how often you fight walking Skeletons in real life, but if I saw one with a mace and shield coming at me I'd turn around and start running. Yea I totally agree with you. Retreating is sometimes necessary to win a battle. If I'm getting my face smashed in by an enemy that hits like a truck, I'd run too and live to fight another day instead stupidly try and go toe-to-toe with him/her at the moment. I think the guy that mentioned the "run mentality" is just full of himself. I believe you people need to reread my post, it obvious that was not referring to ingame battles, I was referring to the point that it seems to be a trend to either remove something and not fix it. Sheesh people need to stop point fingers and saying they are full of themselves, instead of either bring a counter point or try to understand ones point, but this is forum I should be used to this.

There is no WoW Tree system. If you think WoW was the first game to use talent trees, then I guess you are among the ones who have never played a true RPG... :P Besides, in Skyrim, there is a Perk Tree for every skill, which means 18 trees, if not more, as there might be something like a "general" tree. (It's the same as in Fallout, only that now you can actually see which perks you can choose later when you pick a perk.) And, yes, you can make something easier to access, but still give it more depth. What's your source that this doesn't work on paper? And I can't say it's very straight forward, as there's so many possibilities with perks, and you have to choose wisely which perks to pick, as you can't even have every perk! I don't see where this "lack of skills" is coming from? They have removed Mysticism, and placed every spell from it into other schools of magic, so there's not really anything missing there. And they have removed Athletics and acrobatics, which really didn't have much use as skills, as, well, who doesn't run or jump? Those skills were also too overpowered, as you could jump to places where enemies could not reach you very early in the game, or outrun anyone even when running backwards, also early in the game. I understand the skepticism though, as there's been too many poorly made games lately. *Looks at Dragon Age 2 and Gothic 4* Now the thing you must understand that there are certian aspects of a game like this that need stuff like dex, str, int, and stuff like that. Maybe it can work but in terms of organic designs you really need it to broaden the diversity. However, about the perks you must understand how they do it. Will they do it like feats in pen and paper rpgs? If so then it will work as working along with your skills. Now if they turn out to be perks and they add instant abilities and etc this will be a problem as over time there will be lesser choices as you have less skills you lower the amount of arm room. For example, if you were able to mix skills and cross over things, combine magic with weapons in real times (fire sword spell) or other things you broaden the options. It could work, but there is a very large margin of error, and again with the current trends in streamlining rpgs to much (IE Dragon Age,Mass Effect the ones I remeber playing) But good post and I understand, however I disagree with your acrobatics thing to be honest I wondering why people have the run away mentality instead of fixing things this disturbs me.

Actually, doing the math and other things this system will not work as it does not work on paper. Most of the time anything that does not work well on paper will not work in practice. This is not organic as it very straight forward and very limiting, you will be at the mercy of the game and it has a very large margin of error. While there is a small chance it could work, but it leaves me worried at the fact if it messed up the game will feel shallow, less never equals more ever. The lack of skills is why i am worried lack of decent attribute system invisible or visible is also disturbing considering things like dex. Lets just hope Perks work like Feats in pen and paper. But thanks for the responses both sides have good points well have to wait and see sadly I not getting this game on launch I want to wait and see how it works (sorry to many games have been bad and I cannot return computer games *looks at Dragon Age 2*)

That is also my same message I was trying to convey, because with just skills alone and no governing physical traits (only assuming they literally took them out vs you cannot add to them) will decrease depth of character creation. Also, with the notion that perk are instant gratification tactic that so many are use to and its fruits are instant results instead of gradual process. Not to mention speed, and agility is gonna be capped in the most likely scenario which already makes it the same as other rpgs. While I am confident that Bethesda maybe can pull it off. With the current trends in gaming with games like Mass Effect, FF, and Dragon Age, I cannot say I am 100% confident. Money does not equal quality in an artistic field, and complexity is better for us anyway a little math should be welcomed. Not all people are meta-gamers but no gamer (or at least the generation I know)is stupid, as the video game publishers like to believe. The main concern also, in the long run with out those small little pin pricks of attributes, what going to set you apart from the Other mages, or THE other Warrior and the OTHER rouge. With Instant perks it can be troublesome even in Fallout, your character among your friends felt very much alike. Minus the moral choices (which i hope make a return) your characters really felt similar. We will have to wait and see for sure, but using inductive logic we have to remain cautious as many other companies take streamlining as a means to lower the bottom line to make more profit, and in the end I just want the Best for any game I hate lost potential.

I believe so, again you cannot blame me, being used to Pen and Paper RPGs attributes are something I and used to. Not all change is good but not all change is bad. Mayhap this will be a good change, its a new thing for me for certain, glad here there are no drones, they are annoying.