MikeInWare
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Posts posted by MikeInWare
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Apparently the game has been leaked according to various online PC gaming sites
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We are working on a system similar to Steam Collections, however "Mod Packs" in the Minecraft sense (all mods inside a single download) are not likely to ever be a thing on our site.
Thats odd, seeing as Tannin himself said ModPacks will be a huge feature of Vortex and enable more people to enjoy mods etc. I dont think the question is answered as you are just the community manager.
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I would like ModPack's from well known modders who get their fair cut of the proceeds from a user downloading a ModPak. As a father I just don't have no wish to waste time modding anymore or figuring out arcane load orders or LOOT glitches etc. Family comes first. It would save me tons of time to pay a fee to download them.
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I've had to log in three times since 2008.
:laugh: One of them the security data breach? :pirate:
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Need one click ModPak's ASAP
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I don't care how complicated it is, as long as it fulfills its promise of ModPak's so this father can actually play modded games without hours of painful management like he used to have to do. I don't enjoy modding - I want to download and for it to work. And I am willing to pay for that feature.
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In response to post #82016448. #82018443, #82038358, #82065273 are all replies on the same post.He's upset because of the pirating accusation.MadeUpName92 wrote: I got a notification in Vortex that a new version of F4SE is out.
I DO NOT want vortex automatically 'checking' anything except itself.
Were did I give you permission to snoop around my PC and check what other software I have?Pickysaurus wrote: Pretty sure it only does that when you click the "check for updates" button...
Regardless if you click the little gear on the update notification you can stop it from appearing, although there isn't really a good reason not to have the latest version installed unless you have an out of date and/or pirated copy of the game.
EDIT: It may actually do this on starting the up but it doesn't do an actual online "check", Vortex knows what the latest version of the script extender was when it was released so it just compares the version on your PC or to that number.MadeUpName92 wrote: You didn't answer any of my questions, you only implied I was using a pirated copy of the game.
I repeat, where exactly did I give Vortex permission to check software other then the games I'm modding with it or the mods I install with it? (F4SE is not installed through Vortex)
There are several very good reasons not to update to the latest version. Here's a copy/paste from my latest post on the "Fallout4.exe Auto-Backup" thread. A mod with over 60,000 downloads whos purpose is to make rolling back to a previous version much easier.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WARNING! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fallout 4 may auto-update when you "CLOSE" it after starting it with F4SE.
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I just recently started a new game after not having played FO4 for several months. My exe is Version 1.10.138 and I'm still using the matching F4SE for that version. When I closed the game, steam started to download the update even though it's set to "Only update at launch" and I only start the game with F4SE after I've started steam. Steam doesn't even show the game is running. Luckily my Cable Modem is within arms reach and I quickly unplugged the cat cable.
Vortex is showing 171 plugins and I like the way my game runs and I just don't want it to change it so, I don't plan on ever updating it.Pickysaurus wrote: I'm not really sure what you're getting so upset about. If you don't like the notification, I've explained how you can disable it. The feature is a convenience function, so you can disable it entirely in the "Extensions" tab if you like, it's called "Script Extender Installer".
This is how it works:
1) Vortex's "Script Extender Installer" extension knows that the latest F4SE's latest version at the time of release was 0.6.20
2) When you manage Fallout 4, Vortex checks if f4se_loader.exe exists and gets its version.
3) If you don't have F4SE installed, Vortex will recommend it and if your version is lower than the known latest version it will inform you that there is an update. (Both of these alerts can be blocked).
If you wish to run an older copy of the game that's fine. Unfortunately, it isn't currently possible to compare the script extender version to the game version. So Vortex doesn't know if you have the correct version for your current game, it only knows it isn't the latest. -
In response to post #81916563. #81983618, #81987858, #81991703, #82015728, #82059653, #82072108, #82097373 are all replies on the same post.Modders are free to work together on ModPak's and do a better job than the underground ones. Undercut the prices of those teams and gain customers. Competition is good. It's also best to focus on paying customers instead of people stealing from you.MikeInWare wrote: I am eager for ModPaks in the future! Now with kids I don't have time to screw around with mods to get it perfect and am willing to pay for the ModPak to save my time.HadToRegister wrote:MikeInWare
I am eager for ModPaks in the future! Now with kids I don't have time to screw around with mods to get it perfect and am willing to pay for the ModPak to save my time.
Which is why a lot of modders don't like or want mod packs, because if you're paying for a modpack, then it's the person who put the modpack together that's getting paid, and NOT the people who actually made the mods.
There's already someone who did that and has their modpack behind a paywall on patreon, so while a bunch of mod authors did all the work, the guy who made the modpack is making all the money of other people's efforts.llihP wrote: You make it sound as if making a bunch of mods work properly requires no effort. Creating a functioning mod list on Wabbajack is a mammoth task when you incorporate multiple, complex mods. I know because I've tried. There's no easy way to do it.
If this person isn't taking credit for creating the mods, then there's nothing wrong with putting a price on the time it takes to create a functioning mod pack. People are free to charge for their mods in the same way if they like, nothing's stopping them. In fact I recall paying Chesko years ago when he originally set up a patreon to help fund his mod development (before he had to take it down).
I would also happily pay for working mod packs regardless of who is setting them up.MikeInWare wrote: They will make it work and get in line as the profits for ModPaks for the coming new Elder Scrolls "sequel" to Skyrim will be insane. I am absolutely confident that there will be vast amounts of ModPaks despite the challenges. If older modders balk they can be left out of the profits and a new generation of open minded modders can step in and earn profit collaborating on ModPaks.HadToRegister wrote:MikeInWare
If older modders balk they can be left out of the profits and a new generation of open minded modders can step in and earn profit collaborating on ModPaks.
Modders are already being left out of the profits!
Do you think that the people who basically took mods without permission, then made a modpack and are charging money for it are sending each modder a cut of those profits?
NO.
Currently the problem is, people making the modpacks aren't asking permission from the modders, and are making modpacks, then putting them behind paywalls and making money of them.
Essentially stealing the mods, packing them together and making money off the work of others.
Modders aren't even being given a say on whether they want or don't want their mods in mod packs.llihP wrote: 'Packing them together'. An oversimplification if I ever saw one.
The time and effort required to create functioning most lists still seems to escape you for some reason.
They aren't packaging mods as they are and selling them. They aren't simply packaging them together and calling it a day either.
They are packaging mods in conjunction with custom patches (patches that can be classified as mods of their own) and load orders to ensure an automated experience that is hassle free. There are issues associated with maintaining these modpacks as well. Did the game just get an official update? There's more work they have to do. A mod in the list has been updated? Even more. A mod is updated with various new features that conflict with mod X, Y and Z? There's a tonne of additional work.
If 'packing them together' is the grand sum of your understanding, then clearly you don't understand what these people are doing at all.HadToRegister wrote:llihP
'Packing them together'. An oversimplification if I ever saw one.
The time and effort required to create functioning most lists still seems to escape you for some reason.
They aren't packaging mods as they are and selling them. They aren't simply packaging them together and calling it a day either.
They are packaging mods in conjunction with custom patches (patches that can be classified as mods of their own) and load orders to ensure an automated experience that is hassle free. There are issues associated with maintaining these modpacks as well. Did the game just get an official update? There's more work they have to do. A mod in the list has been updated? Even more. A mod is updated with various new features that conflict with mod X, Y and Z? There's a tonne of additional work.
If 'packing them together' is the grand sum of your understanding, then clearly you don't understand what these people are doing at all.
Yea, thanks for being so condescending and insulting.
I've been modding since the morrowind days, I looked at your profile and you have ZERO Mods, compared to mine.
I used a simplified explanation to do just that, keep things simple, but thanks for being so insulting.
Why don't YOU make a few mods and have them taken without your permission and then put behind a paywall while you watch someone else make money from it while you get NOTHING?
Then we'll talk, until then you really don't have any opinion from a modder's perspective, whereas I do, and that's why a lot of modders are pulling their mods or just quitting.
Meanwhile, you keep on insulting Modders and using their work for freellihP wrote: I literally coded the button you just used to reply to me. I also created games in the early 2000s, for free, totaling over 40 million downloads (combined). They were 'stolen' many times over the years, particularly by ad-driven websites and Android developers. I made nothing. I don't care. Don't presume to know who people are because you checked a profile.
Nothing you said refutes your lack of understanding. The people in question offer a valuable service and are more than entitled to compensation if that's the way they want to do things. -
In response to post #81916563. #81983618, #81987858 are all replies on the same post.They will make it work and get in line as the profits for ModPaks for the coming new Elder Scrolls "sequel" to Skyrim will be insane. I am absolutely confident that there will be vast amounts of ModPaks despite the challenges. If older modders balk they can be left out of the profits and a new generation of open minded modders can step in and earn profit collaborating on ModPaks.MikeInWare wrote: I am eager for ModPaks in the future! Now with kids I don't have time to screw around with mods to get it perfect and am willing to pay for the ModPak to save my time.HadToRegister wrote:MikeInWare
I am eager for ModPaks in the future! Now with kids I don't have time to screw around with mods to get it perfect and am willing to pay for the ModPak to save my time.
Which is why a lot of modders don't like or want mod packs, because if you're paying for a modpack, then it's the person who put the modpack together that's getting paid, and NOT the people who actually made the mods.
There's already someone who did that and has their modpack behind a paywall on patreon, so while a bunch of mod authors did all the work, the guy who made the modpack is making all the money of other people's efforts.llihP wrote: You make it sound as if making a bunch of mods work properly requires no effort. Creating a functioning mod list on Wabbajack is a mammoth task with when you incorporate multiple, complex mods. I know because I've tried. There's no easy way to do it.
If this person isn't taking credit for creating the mods, then there's nothing wrong with putting a price on the time it takes to create a functioning mod pack. People are free to charge for their mods in the same way if they like, nothing's stopping them. In fact I recall paying Chesko years ago when he originally set up a patreon to help fund his mod development (before he had to take it down).
I would also happily pay for working mod packs regardless of who is setting them up. -
I am eager for ModPaks in the future! Now with kids I don't have time to screw around with mods to get it perfect and am willing to pay for the ModPak to save my time.
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In response to post #81861268. #81861513, #81863428, #81866323, #81867173, #81871478, #81887973, #81891508, #81891543, #81901603, #81904903 are all replies on the same post.You want them to dumb Vortex down enough for you to understand because you don't want to relearn a new mod manager. I have been learning Vortex and yes it's a pain in the ass to learn at times but once I got it it's far more powerful than NMM ever was.Shadowstag wrote: I have been using NMM for a very long time. Vortex is easy to use when it comes to downloading, installing and adding mods. However, when it comes to the management of mods Vortex severely lacks the functionality that NMM had. I used Vortex for a fresh install of SSE and had nothing but mod management problems that I never had before with NMM while using the same mods! The constant rinse and repeat of the deployment and rewrite process, coupled with false reporting of 'redundant' mods is a persistent pain in the arse. Being stuck with this is not a great feeling especially when you consider the volume of mods many of us have.kormarch28 wrote: I agree 100% with everything you said. Plus when it updates it always breaks something. I looked everywhere for a way to disable auto updates for Vortex itself and could not find it, that is honestly unacceptable. Even after it asked me about the update, it still forced it. If the manager isn't broken for someone and/or they don't need the update, there is no reason to force updates. It deleted the desktop shortcut, it disabled every single mod in my load order, and when I re-enabled them it auto sorted a lot of them wrong and broke the load order therefore breaking the mods in game. Also, stop warning me after using bodyslide or converting to ESL's in F04/SSEdit that an outside source changed mods and forcing a "Deployment" for no reason. Then, to top it off it kept telling me that f4se_0_06_21 isn't the most recent, definitely is, and wouldn't launch through Vortex. Maybe that could have been a one off incident, but really? I don't want to keep using NMM, I really don't, I want to use Vortex, but the app simply has too much control over everything and it has been out long enough these kinds of things shouldn't be happening.Pickysaurus wrote: Ok, let's dig into this. Apologies if I miss anything.However, when it comes to the management of mods Vortex severely lacks the functionality that NMM had.
Could you elaborate on features you say Vortex is lacking? You go on to talk about features Vortex has that NMM lacks.The constant rinse and repeat of the deployment and rewrite process
You can turn off automatic deployment in Settings -> Interface[...] false reporting of 'redundant' mods is a persistent pain in the arse.
Vortex does not falsely report this. either you have a mod installed that contains no files or (more likely) you have a mod install that is entirely overwritten by as a result of what you chose in "File Conflicts". If you disable the ones marked redundant, it should actually have no impact on the game (because those mods were not loading any files).
Now, kormarch28...Plus when it updates it always breaks something
I'm sorry if you encountered bugs after updating. If you're opted into the "testing" branch in Settings -> Vortex, I would suggest switching back to stable. The test branch (as the name implies) is the bleeding edge of new features. We only mark a build stable when we are confident it's a stable build. Vortex will always try and stay up to date as we drop support for older versions (as they contain bugs we've already fixed). You can turn this off in Settings -> Vortex -> Update.It deleted the desktop shortcut, it disabled every single mod in my load order, and when I re-enabled them it auto sorted a lot of them wrong and broke the load order therefore breaking the mods in game.
It is very unlikely a Vortex update caused this, your plugins.txt file is managed by your game and is not changed when updating Vortex.Also, stop warning me after using bodyslide or converting to ESL's in F04/SSEdit that an outside source changed mods and forcing a "Deployment" for no reason.
Vortex is telling you that your files have been modified. It cannot tell if you did this intentionally. I'll admit the "External Changes" window could be made a little more friendly to look at but it's definitely functional. You can flag a plugin as light inside Vortex (double click in the plugins tab), which would same some of this from happening. A deployment is required because it will copy the changes back into your staging folder and ensure Vortex is still managing the new/updated files.Then, to top it off it kept telling me that f4se_0_06_21 isn't the most recent, definitely is, and wouldn't launch through Vortex.
Ok, so I have to be honest. If Vortex is telling you F4SE is not installed properly (or isn't the latest version) AND it doesn't launch from the dashboard, chances are you haven't installed it properly. The new guided install/update process should help with that (in 1.2.12+). We added it specifically because users have a hard time installing SKSE/F4SE/etc properly.
It sounds like both of you just misunderstand a few things. So feel free to stop by the support forums or our Discord if you'd like some help :)kormarch28 wrote: "Ok, so I have to be honest. If Vortex is telling you F4SE is not installed properly (or isn't the latest version) AND it doesn't launch from the dashboard, chances are you haven't installed it properly."
No f4se was installed properly because the link from the desktop shortcut worked perfectly fine, vortex told me the latest version (f4se_0_06_21) was out of date and wouldn't launch, not that it was installed incorrectly. What you are implying I said wasn't what I said at all.
"Vortex is telling you that your files have been modified. It cannot tell if you did this intentionally."
It doesn't need to tell me that I changed files, I know I did. This goes back to it having too much control over everything.
"It is very unlikely a Vortex update caused this, your plugins.txt file is managed by your game and is not changed when updating Vortex."
It did. I don't know what to tell you about that, it happened.Tannin42 wrote: > "Vortex is telling you that your files have been modified. It cannot tell if you did this intentionally."
> It doesn't need to tell me that I changed files, I know I did. This goes back to it having too much control over everything.
It's not _telling_ you that you changed files. We assume that you know that. It's asking you what to do with the change. Because yes, you know that you changed files intentionally but Vortex can't.
It has to synchronize the staging folder and the game folder, otherwise we wouldn't be able to switch profiles or purge or otherwise temporarily disable mods. And for Vortex to not ask you it would have to guess your intention. And even though it would be able to make a fairly good guess but it can't possibly know. There would still be the risk Vortex would sometimes pick the wrong file and thereby delete hours of your work if you were, say, editing your own mod in the CreationKit or xedit.
So the question becomes: Do you want to spend the few seconds to press save, to confirm you did do the intentional changes Vortex thinks you did or do you want Vortex to try and be smarter than it can be and risk deleting your work? There is no third option, either we guess or we ask.
That dialog is *not* about us holding your hand, it's Vortex asking for your help on something it can not reliably automate.
> "It is very unlikely a Vortex update caused this, your plugins.txt file is managed by your game and is not changed when updating Vortex."
> It did. I don't know what to tell you about that, it happened.
It absolutely didn't. Coincidences do happen, just because the two events seem to happen around the same time doesn't mean they are connected. The Vortex update touches nothing apart from its own installation directory and the registry keys that stores the installation location. I can guarantee you that the vortex update mechanism does not touch your plugins.txt file, it's impossible.HadToRegister wrote:kormarch28
I looked everywhere for a way to disable auto updates for Vortex itself and could not find it
SETTINGS--------->VORTEX----------->UPDATE----------->select NO AUTOMATIC UPDATES from the dropdown menu.kormarch28 wrote: "It absolutely didn't. Coincidences do happen, just because the two events seem to happen around the same time doesn't mean they are connected. The Vortex update touches nothing apart from its own installation directory and the registry keys that stores the installation location. I can guarantee you that the vortex update mechanism does not touch your plugins.txt file, it's impossible"
It absolutely did. I'm not repeating myself.
"It's not _telling_ you that you changed files. We assume that you know that. It's asking you what to do with the change."
It doesn't need to do anything with it, which further proves the point your manager has too much control. If you assume we know that, leave it alone. What it boils down to is that I understand that you are a developer, and you take pride in your work. But, what you have made is not perfect by any sense of the means whatsoever. Instead of going through all these comments telling people they are wrong, maybe actually investigate and choke up the pride. Go through the forums and the comments on the update post, lots of vitriol towards people over this sort of thing. Vortex is a buggy mess, great in theory and on paper, far surpasses NMM in fresh looks and all that jazz. Like I said, I want to use it, but people just are not making up the issues they have with your program.Tannin42 wrote: > It absolutely did. I'm not repeating myself.It absolutely did. I'm not repeating myself.
It doesn't matter how much you repeat yourself, you're still wrong
> It doesn't need to do anything with it, which further proves the point your manager has too much control. If you assume we know that, leave it alone.
I explained to you that this isn't possible. If Vortex "left it alone" your profiles would stop working correctly, purging would undo your changes, as would disabling the mod, which would completely change its function.
If you don't want this functionality you'll have to use a different mod manager because these features are at the core of what Vortex is.
> Go through the forums and the comments on the update post, lots of vitriol towards people over this sort of thing.
The same was true for NMM, no one ever said anything nice about that until we introduced Vortex. Same is true for MO, when I worked on that I got far more negative feedback than positive.
The amount of vitriol on the internet is unfortunately in no way representative of the entire user base. Happy users don't post in the forums with very very few exceptions. People are a lot less shy about complaining than about praising.
If we always try to only appease the complaints we may end up like the dog with a bone: Attempting to make everyone happy we end up with no one happy, hence why we can't react blindly to complaints, we have to be convinced of what we do.
> Like I said, I want to use it, but people just are not making up the issues they have with your program.
What you don't seem to unterstand is that you can't have it all, some of the functions you may like in Vortex which are the reason you "want to use it" _cause_ the drawbacks you complain about. Again, we can't have a purge function, that restores the vanilla game directory (without losing data), if we don't sync game directory and staging. We can't change between two profiles within seconds, again without losing data, if we don't sync game <->staging. Whether you understand the reason or not: this is true.
Vortex needs the control you complain about to offer the functionality it does. If you don't want the functionality that's fine, use a simpler mod manager, no one forces you to use or like Vortex. But if you want the functionality, accept that it comes with trade-offs.
We are software developers not wizards, we can't do things that aren't possible.Tannin42 wrote: double post, damn you, comment sectionkormarch28 wrote: "It doesn't matter how much you repeat yourself, you're still wrong"
Again, you need to suck up your pride. Your program is flawed, it happened and I do not care that you have the "Developer" tag on your name, it happened, TWICE. There is no reason an update should be disabling mods, I said what I said, take it however you want. I care not.
"I explained to you that this isn't possible. If Vortex "left it alone" your profiles would stop working correctly, purging would undo your changes, as would disabling the mod, which would completely change its function."
That an issue with your program, and your program only. What does that tell you?
You can say whatever you need to, the fact of the matter is that you cannot accept that this program you made has way more issues than NMM. Whether or not it is better is a subjective opinion and everyone has a different one. On paper and in presntation, it is. Actual operation, debatable. There is a reason people have sworn this software off and Github still has updates to NMM. Like I already said, I want to use this, but, until you start accepting things do not work out the way you intended and perhaps there are actually bugs, I'm not going to. As I said, I understand you take pride in your work, I get it. that pride doesn't mean you just dismiss peoples issues and say "You can't have everything." Nobody wants everything, they want their issues resolved and not have to deal with pointless "You're wrong, I won't even check it because it somehow is impossible, I didn't make it that way." Yeah, that is kind of the definition of bugs and errors, not working as you intended to make it work.HadToRegister wrote:kormarch28
Also, stop warning me after using bodyslide or converting to ESL's in F04/SSEdit
You can use Vortex to Convert to ESL, just pick the COULD BE LIGHT filter in the PLUGINS tab, double click the plugin and click "MAKE LIGHT"
Seems you've missed a lot of features, have you looked through the Knowledge Base and Tutorials?
Also, which AV do you use?
If you use Windows Defender you'll have quite a few problems unless you turn of Controlled Folder Access
You should post in the Vortex Support forum, where it will be MUCH Easier to help you than continuing to hijack this thread for Tech Support.
We can respond much easier in the forum than a News Thread, because your problems sound unique to your system, so it will be much easier to move to the forum for this -
Very dissatisfied with how long it took to notify us. Should be hours not weeks!. Do better.
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I use a minimum of 3fa on every website.
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The killer app for Vortex will be modpacks. It will suck in individual mods and create a "one click" install for newbies. Which is good!
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In response to post #72686218. #72735413, #72830348, #72854378, #72864088, #72885228, #72889143 are all replies on the same post.I am eager to see the first alpha of the mod manager you are working on Arthmoor. I became excited when I heard the news on Discord.1ae0bfb8 wrote:
i don't understand how and where there is this huge community of pissed off modders.
not one of them posts their issues in the support forums? don't you find that weird? i do. they fester about a computer program? that's like hating a spanner.
"Oh I'm 100% a hammer man. I hammer everything, ain't no nuts and bolts in my world - just nails. i have been hammering nails for 20 years and won't change now, who do they think they are making nuts and bolts? a "proper" handyman only needs a hammer. don't be coming in here and changing hammer and nail standards, we won't stand for none of that spannering around here!"
it is utterly ludicrous, but i guess people need something to hate, and surely hating some 0's and 1's is better than hating on a person. still odd, and still way out of my understanding, but hey - people, right?
as i said - when this army of pissed off modders can post their issues on the support forums, so that they can get answers, and who knows, make the program better, then we can deal with it. until that day - it's just unproven bullshine and fallacies on the interwebs. which is maybe why they're on reddit, no?
Arthmoor wrote: No. As I explained once before, these are people who have tried that approach before and found the developers unwilling to listen. Cue you assuming they were just being dense idiots though. Seems that's your fallback is to just call anyone who doesn't like Vortex for whatever reason an idiot.
Your hammer and bolts analogy falls utterly short of the mark btw. That's not even close to a valid comparison.
Also you are again conveniently ignoring the fact that I told you this isn't limited to just reddit users.Brabbit1987 wrote: Here is the reality. There is a reason the developers are unwilling to listen. It's because those who are complaining are doing so without giving it a chance and actually trying it out. They are doing nothing more than complaining that things should be done the old way without giving any valid reason as to why.
You want the devs to listen? Then you need to provide feedback that is more than you just giving your opinion on how something works differently than what you are used to and so you don't like it. And this is coming from someone who doesn't even use Vortex mind you. I use MO2.
But I did use Vortex for a while, and most of the arguments against it are simply unfounded. Someone says they can't drag and drop? I call bullocks. Yes you can. It's just done through rules. Need mod A to load after mod M? Drag from the dependency column of mod A to Mod M, and a popup comes up with options like "Must Load After", "Requires", or "Is Incompatible With".
So this serves the same purpose and you no longer need traditional physical drag and dropping, right? So then why add it? This isn't just the devs being stubborn or unwilling to listen to actual feedback. This is more along the lines of people overreacting and jumping on a hate bandwagon and devs not listening to the absurd cries of the immature. You ever see how people act when Youtube makes a minor change? I am not talking like some of the major changes, I am talking like little UI changes. People freak out. They act like you just killed their puppy or something. They take it so personal.
This happens with a lot of software as well when things are changed. Office is a good example of this back when they first introduced the ribbon menu. Why do developers choose to ignore people who cry about the changes? Because they know it's none sense. They know it's just the internet overreacting as it always does. It happens with Windows often too. There are still people who refuse to use Windows 10 and make false claims about it lol.
You can even see this in game development. To the point many game developers don't even want to deal with the drama queens of the internet.
Not limited to Reddit? Who cares. Since when is the internet a good indication of something being bad or good? A lot of it is driven by bandwagon mentality rather than them actually understanding it. It's why most of the complainers and those who claim they dislike it, have never used Vortex. It's the same sort of mentality that causes review bombing. People see something happening and the want to be a part of it, especially when it's all dramatic and they feel like being a part of it makes them a "good" person.Arthmoor wrote:There is a reason the developers are unwilling to listen. It's because those who are complaining are doing so without giving it a chance and actually trying it out.
Nope. That's not why. Try again.XRayHound wrote: I can't speak for a community of modders, but specfically in regard to Bethesda modding, it is a fact, and a well known one, that Vortex handles FO4, NV, and Skyrim very poorly. Countless issues are solved by simply switching away from Vortex to a different mod manager, to the point that it has become common practice to ask someone seeking tech support first thing: "are you using Vortex? Yes? Get MO2 or NMM and call us back". Those that do so cease having problems. It's anecdotal, yes, but there's not much incentive to install and test a program when you have evidence, anecdotal though it may be, that it's going to bork your game.
I used the community updated NMM without issue for staggeringly huge FO4 installs. Vortex may or may not be s*** as a whole, but for what I use the Nexus for, which is Fallout, Vortex is very much s#*!. As for why I don't post my issues with the devs, it's because I'm not going to put in the HOURS of work to change over to a mod manager that is likely to completely destroy my game setup in order to reap exactly zero benefits or compensation. Neither is anyone else. We know Vortex doesn't work (at least for our specific purpose); why on earth would we use it?Brabbit1987 wrote: Fantastic refute of my entire post Arthmoor. You convinced me. :3Tannin42 wrote: > Countless issues are solved by simply switching away from Vortex to a different mod manager,
in the same way countless issues have been "solved" by switching from NMM to MO, from MO to Wrye Bash, from WB to NMM, ...
In the same way that "turning it off and on again" "solves" so many issues or how you can "solve" your car issues by selling the Toyota and buying a BMW.
The point is: Yes, obviously if someone is having a problem with Vortex, switching to a completely different mod manager and thereby remaking the entire setup is going to make the problem go away but it may potentially replace it with a new one and you may be spending a lot more time than if you had just fixed the original problem in Vortex.
I developed MO, supported it mostly alone for years, don't go telling me that no one ever has a problem with it. Look at the complaints NMM got when _it_ was the main mod manager on this site. NMM has a lot more open bugs on github (difficult to say how much more since they aren't categorized into bug/enhancement) today than Vortex - despite having fewer users to report them and despite its code base having "matured" for 15 years now and despite the fact you have to register an account on github to report a problem with NMM but not with Vortex.
There is a problem with your anecdotal "evidence" because you lack context to interpret it in.
Let's say you have get 9 Vortex users report a problem with your mod and then you have 3 report a problem from MO2 users.
Since you don't know how large the user bases are, you see that 3 times more people report a problem with Vortex and you would conclude that Vortex causes more trouble. But if there were 1000 Vortex users and only 100 MO2 users, in reality MO2 was more than 3 times more likely to cause an issue for the users.
We have proper evidence that Vortex is being used successfully for Bethesda games by plenty of users. Now you can choose to continue living in a bubble where Vortex is terrible and useless and the fix is to replace it because NMM is flawless but you'd be doing a great disservice to many users.
Or you just go about this pragmatically and spend _some_ of this effort into telling us what problems you're seeing so we can improve on them.
Feature request: Dependencies
in Vortex Support
Posted
This is a good feature request