sunshinenbrick

In response to post #24838714. #24841759, #24842129, #24844344, #24845434, #24845714 are all replies on the same post. Ha! Good point, maybe I do speak from a perspective of advantage. But just remember when the s#*! really hits the fan we will ALL be be in the middle of that pond... drowning. Nihilistic perhaps, but it allows me to get SOME sleep at night :D Someone nudged me this, I take no credit:

In response to post #24842764. I feel for everyone that what hurt, but... I may be cynical, but I think it was all seen as collateral damage. They knew it would happen, I mean this is not the first time death threats have been vomited all over the internet. Why? Because we feel more anonymous that way (for the time being) so we do not always think, just post. These people are not always to blame either as their is a general social issue here where people are becoming increasingly detached from the "real world". This is not always something people in positions of power want to stop. Well that's in my humble opinion. Thanks for your post. Google Baudrillard.

In response to post #24838714. #24841759 is also a reply to the same post. I agree but feel I must add that Bethesda must also give all of US the option to mod for free, or for money. And the option to buy UGC or not, without detracting from the original sales pitch and intent of the game. If it says beans in a can, I do not want rotten fish in a bag. If you can avoid interest and debt then you are bang equal and that is the key to the free world. Sorry if that is too fleeting or opinionated, but I'm back from the pub :P

In response to post #24833184. #24833224, #24840414 are all replies on the same post. Well said. Thank YOU.

In response to post #24748294. #24748909, #24748959, #24749014, #24749054, #24749074, #24749089, #24749114, #24749169, #24749269, #24749289, #24749409, #24749439, #24749529, #24749564, #24749574, #24749674, #24749709, #24749814, #24749884, #24749889, #24749954, #24750114, #24750204, #24750249, #24750254, #24750279, #24750544, #24750564, #24750709, #24750814, #24750904, #24751449, #24751489, #24751899, #24751974, #24752079, #24752334, #24752454, #24753799, #24754219, #24754259, #24754609, #24754739, #24754979, #24755419, #24755704, #24755774, #24755999, #24756039, #24756394, #24756489, #24756599, #24756669, #24756944, #24757404, #24757709, #24757794, #24757819, #24757959, #24758109, #24758244, #24758549, #24758604, #24758779, #24758789, #24759069, #24760799, #24760824, #24765454, #24765899, #24766564, #24766884, #24767039, #24767164, #24769074, #24769604, #24770129, #24770469, #24770524, #24770899, #24771494, #24771584, #24771729, #24771929, #24772554, #24773334, #24811954, #24812669, #24812944, #24813194, #24813974, #24820479, #24820594, #24839454, #24839929 are all replies on the same post. I *heart* donations :) All the money in the right places.. Excusing Paypal maybe, but hey its a white knuckle ride out there!

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549 are all replies on the same post. We will fight your rights, that what this community should stand for. We are all part of this together, what affects one will affect others. Right now I'm off to the pub! Wish I could take y'all with me to put the world to rights :) L8r dudes and dudettes.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104 are all replies on the same post. If its the kind of bottomless pit economics that one is after, eat your heart out. Not everyone's cup of tea though.

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899, #24829149, #24829774, #24830084, #24830089, #24830244, #24830269, #24830279, #24830434, #24830474, #24830494, #24830544, #24830624, #24830709, #24830784, #24830789, #24830854, #24830894, #24830919, #24831079, #24831109, #24831114, #24831884, #24831959, #24832009, #24832024, #24832844 are all replies on the same post. That whole idea is messed up as it will end with people just not buying Bethesda games to begin with. Not worth the risk.

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899, #24829149, #24829774, #24830084, #24830089, #24830244, #24830269, #24830279, #24830434, #24830474, #24830494, #24830544, #24830624, #24830709, #24830784, #24830789, #24830854, #24830894, #24830919, #24831079, #24831109, #24831114, #24831884 are all replies on the same post. Do you support this model of business?

I am unsure this is current practice but could a simple set of things that must be covered in the description or readme files do some of this? Things like, known/possible incompatibilites, installation/uninstallation, what it does/doesn't do. Nothing grand, just the basics. Its no review but it gives a standardised approach to the issue and well its the community on a whole that will be doing the work and therefore no need to try and get a few people to take on such a mommoth tusk :tongue: It doesn't even need to happen overnight, but gradually.

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899, #24829149, #24829774, #24830084, #24830089, #24830244, #24830269, #24830279, #24830434, #24830474, #24830494, #24830544, #24830624, #24830709, #24830784, #24830789 are all replies on the same post. That is why there ALSO must be user protection. Who is to say a mod will not sold as doing something and then doing something else or just not doing it? Even mod makers use other mods. This is also assuming Bethesda tell freelance developers what shape the hole should be in in the first place... which they have notouriously been elusive about. Probably because they are figuring stuff out as they go along, like many pioneering and experimental developers do.

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899, #24829149, #24829774, #24830084, #24830089, #24830244, #24830269, #24830279, #24830434, #24830474, #24830494, #24830544 are all replies on the same post. Not rights over the finished product, rights as an "employee". Your right not to have to take all the blame and responsibility for when anything went wrong.

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899, #24829149, #24829774, #24830084, #24830089, #24830244, #24830269, #24830279, #24830434 are all replies on the same post. Say you sell a mod that breaks another person's game. Who are Bethesda going to direct them to? Just be sure to be ready to take on ALL the responsibilities that will come with being a freelance game developer the way it was offered.

In response to post #24827544. #24828559, #24828899, #24829149, #24829774, #24830084, #24830089 are all replies on the same post. With no rights.

In response to post #24821334. #24826079, #24829599 are all replies on the same post. Skol!

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24828809, #24829099, #24829419 are all replies on the same post. It is rife everywhere! Only thing I can say is to educate yourself as much as possible. Read everything you can and find out what your rights are. If you don't... you will get shafted!

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24828809 are all replies on the same post. @ Xavathos As well as money, the main issue for me was the practical illegal employment of customers while giving them absolutley no rights. They even admitted they had the idea that modders would be getting paid more than the core staff of the game development team. In turn they would likely off-load most of the work to modders. Could have legs I don't know, but there must be proper in depth discussions on this and evaluations of exactly what we are being sold, what the Sales of Goods Act, EULA and TOC are.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134, #24828199, #24828519, #24828634, #24828644, #24828689, #24828809 are all replies on the same post. FREEDOM! I am happy being able to choose, and that is what I feel has been the most important fight fought about this.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828199, #24828274, #24828519 are all replies on the same post. Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement? EDIT: https://vhsglitch.bandcamp.com/album/evil-technology-album if you have no idea what I'm talking about :) EDIT: So much stuff to spend my money on, so much talent. When I have the money, I am happy to reward people for their efforts. We need to find trust in others we know and not take the first corporate carrot dangled in our faces.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827954 are all replies on the same post. @ greggorypeccary That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy. @ Xavathos Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859 are all replies on the same post. retnav98 What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do. Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514 are all replies on the same post. It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out. EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229 are all replies on the same post. @ retnav98 Thank you for your honesty. Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover". Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.

In response to post #24825259. #24825439 is also a reply to the same post. I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone. My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years. Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best. Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves. Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.

In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484, #24818104, #24818664, #24818959, #24820849, #24826069 are all replies on the same post. @ Dragonfire12 @ Xazomn These are points very well made.