sunshinenbrick

Theory is that has already happened... Tory War Games

Corbyn is "meh" because he's a old fashioned Eurosceptic who went along with remain to keep his MPs quiet. If Cameron had wanted Brexit he could have easily campaigned for it and won. The Tories love the EU, don't listen to their rhetoric, judge them on their record, they're like the Lib Dems. The Tory hierarchy love the EU because their paymasters do, they love the cheap labour and regulations that keep the big companies big and stifle competition. The Tories took us into the then EEC and they've twice now campaigned to keep us in. When Labour was the party of the working class it opposed membership and even manifesto commitment to leave, these days it's a collection of social justice warriors who are obsessed with identity politics and nothing else. The EU is massively expensive. While a member, citizens are entitled to more pay and many more rights, and the only reason they like them is to sell financial services, which they can in the bucket load now that deregulation can take place and the Pound is cheap. All that will come with a caveat though, and Tories have many strings attached. They may like to negotiate a better deal with them as a sort of half-member but they do not ever wish to part any real power to them. They had to 'split' the party so as not to seem biased, but it was all just a pincer movement, a circus, with the near annihilation of all opposition in the process. Very clever, but I smelt a rat from the very beginning. Import cheap labour and wages fall, it's such basic concept that I'm always amazed so many fail to grasp it. For many the minimum wage is the maximum wage, with such a surplus of labour they can't expect more, it's simple supply and demand. For the self employed they have to work for next to nothing because if they don't they'll be undercut by someone who will, someone who doesn't have a family to support and who is willing to live ten to a room, it's another example of how the free movement of people drags everyone down to the lowest. Look at youth unemployment rates across the EU, they're horrific, cheap immigrant labour is now doing the jobs most of us started out in life doing, the young can't even get a start in life. It's almost funny how big business has got the left dancing to its tune, what stops it being funny is the human cost, not that the EUs cheerleaders care, as we've seen time and again, the project is more important than the people who suffer because of it. What you describe is exactly how the UK have been playing their cards and is precisely why they would not follow the same path. The EU has not been dynamic in this regard and it is the large number of immediate changes that has caused the prolem. They are primarily a fiscal based economy whereas the UK has been traditionally monetary orientated (hence the different currency) and this situation has been a sitting timebomb driven by differing political ideals. The right, or rather their voters, are now ready to take to the floor as the left are used up and everyone is fed up of the same dance. Cheap labour in the UK will continue for most people, as the new 'living wage' has now been effectively reduced by the drop in the pound, coupled with a near complete dismantling of state welfare, and now the removal of EU membership restrictions. The key difference will be 'growth', enough to keep things ticking over while the EU has to either drastically reform, or tank. There are no winners except those who have already won, everything else is just smoke and mirrors. Left and right becomes increasingly irrelevant as authritarianism is the new master.

Corbyn is "meh" because he's a old fashioned Eurosceptic who went along with remain to keep his MPs quiet. If Cameron had wanted Brexit he could have easily campaigned for it and won. The Tories love the EU, don't listen to their rhetoric, judge them on their record, they're like the Lib Dems. The Tory hierarchy love the EU because their paymasters do, they love the cheap labour and regulations that keep the big companies big and stifle competition. The Tories took us into the then EEC and they've twice now campaigned to keep us in. When Labour was the party of the working class it opposed membership and even manifesto commitment to leave, these days it's a collection of social justice warriors who are obsessed with identity politics and nothing else. The EU is massively expensive. While a member, citizens are entitled to more pay and many more rights, and the only reason they like them is to sell financial services, which they can in the bucket load now that deregulation can take place and the Pound is cheap. All that will come with a caveat though, and Tories have many strings attached. They may like to negotiate a better deal with them as a sort of half-member but they do not ever wish to part any real power to them. They had to 'split' the party so as not to seem biased, but it was all just a pincer movement, a circus, with the near annihilation of all opposition in the process. Very clever, but I smelt a rat from the very beginning.

Armageddon was over by teatime, the doomsayers were left scraping around for something else to latch onto. What has been saddening is seeing how many people place next to no value on democracy, so many people didn't care that they were being governed by people they didn't elect and could not remove, What people fail to see is the prosperity is not exclusively economic ideal and sometimes peace of mind is far more valuable than any gold in the universe. I stand with England, up or down, I have my fingers crossed, but seeing that it stood sovereign for far more years than it stood with the EU, I think they will do well. Is that 'peace of mind' or 'piece of mind'...? Yepp, all the gold in the world will mean nothing, so long as you have the democratic freedom to eat your own fingers in order to survive. For King and Country! I've noticed so much fear mongering going on in both camps that I'm well used to this. What I'm wondering if much of this is sincere concern for others or attempts by the idealistically inclined to sneer at each other. The shock on the faces of the politicians and their media pals spoke volumes, they couldn't believe that the plebs had not done what they were told, this is an interesting article that covers it better http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/24/the-end-of-globalism/ They all planned for Brexit. Cameron couldn't wait to leave, all the Tories are on holiday, and Corbyn is like 'meh...' It's so obvious, and if anything they are probably shocked because they thought it might be more of a fight.

Armageddon was over by teatime, the doomsayers were left scraping around for something else to latch onto. What has been saddening is seeing how many people place next to no value on democracy, so many people didn't care that they were being governed by people they didn't elect and could not remove, What people fail to see is the prosperity is not exclusively economic ideal and sometimes peace of mind is far more valuable than any gold in the universe. I stand with England, up or down, I have my fingers crossed, but seeing that it stood sovereign for far more years than it stood with the EU, I think they will do well. Is that 'peace of mind' or 'piece of mind'...? Yepp, all the gold in the world will mean nothing, so long as you have the democratic freedom to eat your own fingers in order to survive. For King and Country! I've noticed so much fear mongering going on in both camps that I'm well used to this. What I'm wondering if much of this is sincere concern for others or attempts by the idealistically inclined to sneer at these people.. The problem is that the establishment have stirred up all this debate and questioning our existence only to provide people with a single vote, one way or another. If we look at the result not as a win or lose but rather a collective consensus about things it is clear people are unhappy, disaffected, confused and angry. The nation is split and fractured in so many ways it will take long, and probably hard, times in order for people to reconcile, if they can. I believe and hope that they can, but we should be weary of any attempts by crooks to steer things towards further division and conquest. It is very important that people now talk, try to understand eachother, and find common ground. If not then this whole thing will really turn out to be a waste. Cricket anyone?

It was in fact my prediction despite my vote. I am just glad it was so close and showed the divides between class. I only hope it can be fixed so we don't end up destroying each other when many of the 'people' actually share many things in common. We must keep asking the incisive questions and also recognise our own responsibility in how things are to play out. Our fates now lie with Adam Smith.

BREAKING NEWS! David Cameron signs on at Job Centre.

Armageddon was over by teatime, the doomsayers were left scraping around for something else to latch onto. What has been saddening is seeing how many people place next to no value on democracy, so many people didn't care that they were being governed by people they didn't elect and could not remove, What people fail to see is the prosperity is not exclusively economic ideal and sometimes peace of mind is far more valuable than any gold in the universe. I stand with England, up or down, I have my fingers crossed, but seeing that it stood sovereign for far more years than it stood with the EU, I think they will do well. Is that 'peace of mind' or 'piece of mind'...? Yepp, all the gold in the world will mean nothing, so long as you have the democratic freedom to eat your own fingers in order to survive. For King and Country!

The democracy brigade are going to be in for a nasty shock I think, as it only really works if you haven't already been sold.

It is pretty ironic that people voted against Turkish and Syrian immigration for a Turkish decendent under a Syrian flag, who is now set to be leader of their country... what comes around goes around I guess. Not sure there was much doubt the pound would bounce back. Who and how that will be paid for in years/generations to come will be when the pill becomes a lot more bitter to swallow.

Hmm I just had another thought about that . For those who have made a post in this thread , in Skyrim did you on your first playthrough choose Ulfric or the Empire . I chose Ulfric. Might be indicative of personality traits. My first playthrough was Ulfric.

We may also see a rise of the Whigs.

OK then, just pirates...

That is why everyone is so devastated. I'm a little confused, I mean, I get that there's some people whining but only showing people whining does not constitute a proper argument that only whiners exist it's more likely that the liar aristocracies have had their friendly media organizations/trendsetters only select those that fall in line with the de facto EU party dogma to ask the opinions of and broadcast what're you getting at? What I mean is that by voting for 'democracy' the public have (unknowingly) actually voted in a bunch of right wing pirates who have basically sold the people and bought them back in a fire sale. We didn't vote for anyone, we voted to leave the EU, we don't get to vote anyone in or out until 2020. I don't think a good number of people are aware of this though. A general election would be a disaster for Labour right now. They, like many people, are now lost as the map has completely changed. Our last hope until we can vote again is a continuation of our free and open press. Keep an eye on the ball.

That is why everyone is so devastated. I'm a little confused, I mean, I get that there's some people whining but only showing people whining does not constitute a proper argument that only whiners exist it's more likely that the liar aristocracies have had their friendly media organizations/trendsetters only select those that fall in line with the de facto EU party dogma to ask the opinions of and broadcast what're you getting at? What I mean is that by voting for 'democracy' the public have (unknowingly) actually voted in a bunch of right wing pirates who have basically sold the people and bought them back in a fire sale.

Welcome to the New Politik. New World Chaos.

That is why everyone is so devastated. Its Boris Johnson not Borris Johnson . No wonder the remain camp lost .. ugh your not even yelling at the right people . lol just joking..... Its Borris, may mate's name is Borris and he says so. Out! Out! Out! ... just kidding, suppose it's a shame I don't work in the electoral commision office ;)

BORRIS JOHNSON! BORRIS JONHSON! Just practicing...

How exactly will Farage be making decisions? Farage was isolated from the official campaign so they're hardly likely to invite him to take part now. He is a business man of course he'll be involved! Hello corporate welfare state! People didn't really think they chose for an end to corruption did they?

52 - 48 is not unanimous whatever the result was. Telling nearly half the population to just accept whatever comes our way is rather pie in the sky. We shall see just how kind democracy can be. That was one decision, the rest will now be made by Borris, Farrage, Gove and the rest of the uber right wing. Gonna need a shovel...

Likely to also be unhappy about the lower wages, fewer rights, and increased taxes, inflation and interest rates.

British Pound crashes.

Amazing! 'Fun, fun, fun!' EDIT: Perhaps a new thread is now needed titled "Future of UK..."

That is how I understood it too but what would that lead to?? This is probably one of the most considered and rounded summaries of the debate I have yet read about it and it also sums up most of the concerns I have too --> News Thump EU Referendum Also someone from the ONS (Office of National Statistics) posted this advert (on the sly) and it gives us some visual perspective to things --> Referendum Ad Not sure if anybody watched this on Channel 4 earlier. Slightly unusual format but very interesting. --> The Final Debate

It is all nonsense. But every bit of it has been done or said by elected Republicans at the Federal, State and Local levels of government. What is worse, it that the Republican candidate for United States President repeats is in word and deed. I couldn't make this level of asininity up. Include the dems in that as well. Face it. Politicians lie. They makes stuff up as they go, cherry pick their facts/statistics, blatantly falsify claims, and a host of other ills, that we wouldn't accept from our friends. Why do we accept it for our supposed 'leaders'? Nope, every thing in that list was said or done by one or more republicans. And most of then were well before this election cycle got into full swing, so you cannot minimize them by blaming "election politics". One quick example. The line "The constitution is meaningless, the Bible rules supreme" was delivered while standing behind Kim Davis. You remember her, the elected county clerk who defined a Supreme Court Order to issue marriage licences to same gender couples, stating "America is a Christian country and should be ruled by the Bible. This < issuing of marriage licenses to same gender couples > is a sin and I will not go against my religious beliefs. Supreme Court be damned." Kim Davis became a Republican celebrity for her "strong religious stance". Okay, two. The Republican dominated Texas legislature passed some draconian laws governing the operation of places that offered "Free Woman's Health Services". These laws were so restrictive that all but twelve centers have closed statewide. Now, poorer women have to travel to Louisiana, Oklahoma or New Mexico for family planning assistance, for a pregnancy test, or for their annual PAP smear or a Mammogram. Okay, one more. The Republican Presidential Candidate mimed the spasmodic body motions of a man who is physically challenged, all the while ridiculing the man, his profession and his life. I could detail every item in that list. And you will either believe it or not. The funny thing is, I do not care. I could document this same kind of mind numbing excrement for the Democrats. The truth is that I hate the stupid ignorant arrogant hypocrisy of both parties. My honest belief is that both parties are extremist organizations who hold the America People hostage to satisfy their narrow minded ideologies. Trump is an idiot. Hillary is no better. I may just vote for Pat Paulsen again. Or maybe I will vote for "None of the above". I think "none of the above" should be a vote that counts. If NotA wins, then ALL the candidates go home, and we start over again...... :D NOTA is an interesting idea but I would not like to trade it for the right to NOT vote at all.