vlainstrike

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Apocalypse has an expansion as well, called More Apocalypse that I'd like to see added to the list.

Yeah, I get how that works now - I learned that lesson from you earlier in this thread when trying, unsuccessfully, to forward vanilla acoustic records from LIAT (lively inns and taverns) into the Smash patch. (I still wish Smash offered that level of precise user control btw, but that's an entirely different discussion.) This is different though - all the records listed in my error report contain custom settings from their respective mods, all of which conflict/overwrite the vanilla records contained in their masters. I should mention again - even though the error list may appear long, there are relatively few errors compared to the large number of records being correctly forwarded to the smash patch by each of these mods. I'll test your suggestion later to add XCAS & XCIM nodes to all the plugins for which I've applied smash settings. But if that can change the smash outcome, can you help me understand why that would be the case? I mean, my ELFX Enhancer, for example, has 6 masters: skyrim, update, dragonborn, dawnguard, ELFX, and College of Winterhold (the latter because I merged the College's ELFX patch with the Enhancer). In order to trigger Smash to forward a record, isn't it enough that a conflict/overwrite exists between ELFXEnhancer and any single one of those masters? How does adding nodes to non-master plugins containing vanilla XCAS/XCLL/etc. records assist the smash process? And why would that be necessary for only a handful of records when the vast majority of others are already forwarding correctly without such an adjustment?

Smash Logs and Tags: http://dropcanvas.com/448ja I'm sorry to report that for some reason ALL the errors previously listed on 3 Jan reappeared when I ran Smash this last time, rather than the smaller list with only 8 records. I have no idea why the list of errors is sometimes less. complete list of CELL errors: relevant tags: xedit error examples:

I'll send you a new link to my logs and tags within the next 2 days. In the meantime, here's a list of the 8 records not forwarding. As you can see it's a very small number compared to the number of records being correctly forwarded by each of those mods. As I'm sure you're aware, ELFXEnhancer, for example, edits hundreds of XCLL records, but for some reason, just 3 of those refuse to forward. All the plugins are definitely included in the smashed patch, so maybe it is related to the ITPO problem you mentioned.

The issue is that out of several hundred correctly forwarded records, a handful of them (8 to be exact) are simply failing to send lighting (XCLL), acoustic (XCAS), and/or ownership (XOWN) data to the smash patch, in which case the smash esp does not appear in the right hand column of TES5edit like it would for successfully forwarded records. There honestly isn't much to see screenshot-wise, but if you really want pictures of all that I can work on putting it together within the next couple days. Assuming you no longer have the smash logs & tags I sent before, I figured you'd be more interested in those. I had provided a list of which records were not being forwarded to the smash patch on 3 Jan 2017, post 69, along with links to the corresponding Smash Logs, and Smash Tags. I updated the list of affected records on 5 Jan 2017, and those remaining 8 records are the ones still not forwarding correctly. It is the exact same type of problem I reported on 25-26 Sept 2016, posts 45 &47, only with different records. Those September records were fixed in a subsequent 'experimental' update (noted 28 Sept, in post #55), although I'm unsure if that was due to changes you made in response to logs sent by me, or Gabba, or both.

I spent a significant amount of my own time organizing an error report for your benefit, and uploaded logs that would help you improve your software. Is there a reason you continue to ignore the info I have provided?

my previously reported errors persist

I don't know how or why, but after making a few small adjustments to seemingly unrelated tags, all but 8 of the errors I recently reported have somehow fixed themselves. Let me know if you want me to make new logs for you Mator.

Heya Mator! Happy New Year! I'm glad to see you're still updating Smash because I've been sitting on a few discrepancies that I was hoping you might take a look at. Most of the time MatorSmash behaves exactly the way I expect it to, but there's often a handful of records that don't forward to the patch as expected. My latest smash log and settings can be found here: http://dropcanvas.com/dtivu The list of records I'm having trouble with are listed below: Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Well, it's definitely effective at showing the most popular follower mods at any given time.

That might work... gonna be a pain in the rear though. Lots of rearranging the end of my load order, updating smash tags for whatever new conflicts happen to pop up, and updating a bunch of LOOT rules, but I'll give it a shot. Edit: It worked, thanks for the tip! And it was just about as annoying as I expected it to be :armscrossed:, but it's done now. Hopefully I won't find any more instances where vanilla records end up being the preferred override over mods lower in my load order. Now back to the fun work of smashing all the patches in my load order into obsolescence.

That would be great, assuming you're confident enough now in the algorithm, as I just found a small example where that rule kinda conflicted with my goals: As you know, I'm using Seasons of Skyrim, along with WAO, but I also have Lively Inns and Taverns installed (actually, I'm only using the LIAT - sounds.esp right now for the simulated crowd noise - I've got enough random NPC's running around from other mods). Anyway, after some testing, I decided that LIAT's crowd noise sounded more realistic when used with LIAT's acoustic spaces, which happen to be vanilla, which means MatorSmash will still pick SoS or WAO as the winning override. Now, the inns and taverns only represent a tiny handful of CELL records, which are quite trivial to alter by hand, but if it was possible to automate MatorSmash to view LIAT's vanilla acoustic spaces as the winning override vs SoS and WAO in this case, it would mean one less thing to worry about. This is a pretty rare circumstance, so it's not a huge deal, by any stretch, if you decide to maintain the current rules.

Ok, that makes sense, because I knew there was no way my settings would be effective if my understanding was completely borked, but I also recognize there are gaps in my knowledge (e.g. the correct application of the preserve deletions flag is still a complete mystery to me). So to clarify, in Gabba's case, since USLEEP didn't modify the original FULL-name value vs. skyrim.esm, CACO should still be considered the winning override, even though CACO is 'skipped', and even though the USLEEP setting has FULL-name checked? If so, that would explain why CACO's DATA-weight value still made it to his smash patch, despite Bash.All checking DATA-weight for USLEEP, and furthermore that FULL-name should have followed suit. Is that correct? (which is what I think Gabba was trying to tell me.., in which case I was very wrong on a couple things, Gabba was totally right, and Mator, you are very gracious in your wording, lol :sweat:) If all that is true, then CACO's DATA-weight would still make it to the patch, in this case, even if USLEEP were loaded after CACO, simply by virtue of being the only plugin to modify the original value, right? ------------------- By the way, does anything in your last post explain why I've got 2 stray SoS acoustic records that refuse to smash? Like, is there another missing string or something, as you mentioned in Gabba's case? I feel like my question may have got lost in the shuffle here. EDIT: I just tested my smash settings using the "dangerous development release" you just posted, and my 2 problematic acoustic records were resolved correctly. Does this mean both my issue and Gabba's were caused by the same thing?

What I said doesn't contradict Mator's comment. He just worded it differently (and succinctly). I can see from my own patch results that it works the way I think it does, and I also know that the potion naming results from your original example can be fixed in one of two ways:1) by de-selecting the 'Full - name' node from USLEEP's ALCH records OR 2) by giving CACO its own smash tag that includes ALCH: Names (which will essentially re-empower CACO to once again win the conflict by virtue of being lower in your load order)(either will solve your immediate issue, but personally I would do both of those things because there is no reason to forward USLEEP's ALCH name info to a smash patch if you're using CACO, while there can be LOTS of reasons to forward CACO's names to your smash patch if you have a big load order) Consider the following esp's from your example:Skyrim.esmUSLEEP.espCACO.espJustUSLEEP.esp Ok, so obviously there is a conflict between what USLEEP and CACO each think potions should be named. When creating a patch, Mator Smash can only see this conflict because 1) you loaded it into Mator Smash to begin with, and 2) because (I assume) you included CACO in the patch by right clicking it, and selecting 'add to patch', which is a good thing - you want Mator Smash to be able to see all the conflicts in your load order; as far as 'seeing' conflicts goes, it doesn't matter that CACO is being 'skipped' - being skipped just means that no filter is being applied to forward any of CACO's records, and therefore none of CACO's info will ever end up in the smash patch. In other words, any mod that is 'skipped' automatically forfeits its right to send any info to the smash patch whatsoever. As I'm sure you are aware, normally, without Mator Smash, all of CACO's records would win all potion related conflicts by virtue of being loaded last, however, by giving USLEEP a smash tag with 'ALCH:FULL - Name' checked you've basically given USLEEP a 'superpower' that it didn't have before, namely to win naming conflicts that it would normally lose against mods found lower in your load order (like CACO). The result of USLEEP now winning the name conflict against CACO, is that USLEEP's naming info gets sent to your JustUSLEEP.esp, just like it did in your screenshot. To further illustrate this point I'll give you an example of my own current ALCH solution that I asked about earlier in the thread, which is now working perfectly with results 100% in line with my expectations. Consider the following mods, as they appear in my load order, along with my goals for each: USLEEP goals: none, at this point CACO goals: 1) to provide Weight and Effects for ALL ALCH products included with CACO (potions, poisons, food, ingredients, etc...)2) to provide the Names of ALL ALCH products included with CACO, with the sole exception of Booze Names.3) to provide a few textures/meshes not covered by other mods found lower in my load order (grenades and whatnot) Radiant and Unique Potions and Poisons goals:1) to provide textures/meshes for any remaining ALCH products not covered by the 3 mods listed below Pretty Potions-Small Bottles Edition goals:1) to provide textures/meshes for just about anything not covered by Aleanne's potion replacer (mostly DLC potions/poisons) Unique Booze Bottles (with Alternate Names) goals:1) to provide textures/meshes for Booze bottles only (with the exception of Holy Water and Skooma - I want Aleanne's beautiful textures for those, which is why Potions Replacer is loaded last)2) to provide names for Booze bottles only Potions Replacer by Aleanne goals:1) to provide textures/meshes for ALL vanilla potions/poisons, including Holy Water and Skooma (this mod only covers vanilla potions/poisons, thus the need for additional mods to fill in the gaps - which is actually great in terms of texture variety) =====================================================Problem: Every single potion texture mod in my load order also provides its own Effects data, which overwrites nearly all of CACO's potion Effects. Solution: Use Mator Smash's tags to create a smash patch that not only forces CACO to win Weight and Effects conflicts that it would otherwise lose, but to also preserve ALL the desired graphics info from each of my 4 potion texture mods. ===================================================== Here's how I set up my tags to perfectly accomplish ALL of my stated goals (I've abridged my tags a little bit in this post for clarity's sake): USLEEP======skipped - I haven't specifically studied my USLEEP conflicts in depth yet, and it isn't messing with CACO's data, like AT ALL, since it's so high in my load order, so I don't have any reason (yet) to forward any of its info to a smash patch - this will probably change as I progress in analyzing the conflicts in each of my other mods, but it certainly won't change because of CACO CACO: ==================ALCH: EDID - Editor IDALCH: OBND - Object BoundsALCH: FULL - NameALCH: KWDA - KeywordsALCH: Model - MODL - Model FilenameALCH: Data - WeightALCH: ENIT - Effect DataALCH: Effects Radiant and Unique Potions and Poisons:================================ALCH: OBND - Object BoundsALCH: ModelALCH: Icon Pretty Potions-Small Bottles Edition============================ALCH: OBND - Object BoundsALCH: ModelALCH: Icon Unique Booze Bottles (with Alternate Names)====================================ALCH: OBND - Object BoundsALCH: ModelALCH: IconALCH: FULL - Name Potions Replacer by Aleanne=======================ALCH: OBND - Object BoundsALCH: ModelALCH: Icon If I was completely wrong in my assessment, all of this would fail miserably, but instead I was able to get 100% perfect results for all my ALCH records. My Lighting/Sound stuff is also doing very well; it currently sits at about 99.9% correct since I have exactly 2 nagging, incorrect records out of several hundred.

Agree to disagree.

Not really. It would rescue the purpose of the hotfiles. ​Wouldn't want to overwork the moderation team. :ohdear:

Follower mods should have their own separate hotfiles section, right below the 'main' hotfiles. In other words, two complete rows of hotfiles: bottom row should be EXCLUSIVELY follower mods, while the top row would feature everything else EXCEPT follower mods. Failing that, there should be a separate set of filters for hotfiles vs. the rest of your profile. Personally, I'm not in any way offended by skimpy/sexy follower content, which means I don't mind seeing that stuff if I go looking for it. The problem (obviously) is that they tend to drown out everything else.

I can take a stab at this one (and Mator, please correct me if I'm wrong). Potion names come from ALCH records. In the screenshot you have settings for ACTI records showing, but if you're using the default setting I assume that 'FULL - Name' is checked under ALCH as well, meaning USLEEP will win name conflicts for ALCH, even if CACO is lower in your load order. Smash settings basically exist to forward desired winners to your patch, despite load order, so if you don't want USLEEP to win potion names you'll either have to uncheck FULL - Name under the ALCH section of your USLEEP smash tag, or you'd have to also create an ALCH smash tag for CACO that also forwards names (along with whatever other properties you probably want CACO to win, like value, weight, and effects), in which case the lowest mod in your load order possessing ALCH: Full - Name, checked in its smash setting, will find its way to your patch. I've started looking at smash tags as if they install a giant wall of flood gates below each mod that uses them, whereby checking the box of a smash tag node opens up a very narrow gate along that wall, which only allows its own specific type of information to flow DOWNWARD from the mod. And behind each node's gate is a pipeline leading directly to your smash patch, allowing all checkboxed-nodes to bypass any and all mods below itself (assuming those lower mods don't have matching tags of their own), thereby making its way to your smash patch. Any unchecked record in your smash tag is essentially a closed gate, blocking that type of information from going any further DOWNSTREAM into your smash patch. This functionality is what allows you to do something like preserve all of CACO's potion stats, while also having pretty potion textures from other mods that come later in your load order. This is done by creating one ALCH smash tag for CACO that only allows potion stats and effects through, and another ALCH smash tag for your potion texture mods that only have ALCH graphics model elements checked.

Ok, I tried registering to send submissions under Mator Smash Settings, but I'm getting the 'mpOpt_ServerUnavailable' message, so here's a link to the log. (note: the entire log doesn't seem to show itself until you scroll all the way to the bottom) edit: meh, here's a dropcanvas link for the same log file (nifty little site) And here's a link to my settings. (upper right hand corner has a 'download all' button so you don't have to do them one at a time from the canvas) The only fairly cryptic esp's are potions.esp, which we discussed earlier, and maybe PPsmallbot.esp. I'm sure you'll recognize everything else. Most settings have the name of the esp right in the name of the setting, so they're pretty self explanatory. Exceptions: ALCH.Graphics.Potions: used on all 3 potion mods. ALCH.Graphics.Potions with Names: for Unique BOOZE Bottles Lighting.Sound.WAO: used on all 3 SoS esp's in addition to WAO.

Heya Mator, Once again, thank you so much for your help. Since your post I've been having a blast working with this utility! Between this and Merge Plugins I feel like I have so much more control over my load order, and I can now foresee a future where I can eliminate most, if not all, other patches! To business: Is there a reason MatorSmash might occasionally miss forwarding a record or am I doing something wrong? I recently finished the core of my Lighting/Sound smash, during which I only allowed 4 esp's to forward 'XCAS - Acoustic Space' data, namely the 3 Seasons of Skyrim esp's, and WAO. I've been going over the results with a fine toothed comb, and everything worked exactly like I expected it to. All of WAO's acoustic records were sent to the patch, and in cases where WAO didn't offer an XCAS value, the SoS acoustic data correctly made it to the patch, except in a couple odd cases: Seasons of Skyrim - CivilizationsBlock 1, Sub-block 5, The Bee and BarbBlock 2, Sub-block 6, Jorrvaskr Living Quarters In both of these cases the SoS-Civ data never made it to the patch, and ELFXEnhancer ends up being the last column in TES5edit, rather than my BIG SMASH.esp. For reference: Screenshot of my spreadsheet indicating which data to include in the SMASH tag for each mod in my 'Lighting and Sound' group: Screenshots of the relevant tags in Mator Smash: Screenshot showing how the vast majority of my successfully SMASHed XCAS - Acoustic records look in TES5edit: Screenshots showing the only two instances where SoS-Civ data failed to be forwarded to my SMASH patch: Obviously it's not that big of a deal for me to manually fix two records, if need be, but I'm concerned that these errors represent a misunderstanding on my part that could lead to further errors down the line. Note: I am still VERY uncertain regarding when and if I should apply the 'preserve deletions' flag, or if that has any bearing on my current issue. Thanks in advance for any help you, or anyone else, can offer!

Ahhhhhhhh! Ok, this is exactly the information I needed to move forward! Now it makes sense why delgathar was saying to think of the smash tags as filters rather than inclusions. Yeah, this definitely gives me the direction I needed to really start playing around with smash patches - this is gonna be fun! :dance: Ya know, when I first realized the extent of the conflict between CACO and potion mods I was very disheartened to think I would have to forward ALL those CACO records ahead by hand, one by one. But this tool... it's like you've stolen fire from Mt. Olympus, and shared it for the benefit of all humanity! Thank you so much for your help Mator, and thank you for sharing this powerful utility with all of us plebes!

That would be wonderful!

I've recently started using Mator Smash, and I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to produce the results I want. I've watched your tutorial a few times, but the smash examples weren't very specific regarding how to accomplish a particular desired outcome. I feel like I'm missing something fundamental. Namely, how do you teach MatorSmash when to follow the 'rule of one' and when to break it for specific mods? For example, take the following load order with respect to ALCH - ingestibles: USLEEP Legacy of the Dragonborn CACO Radiant and Unique Potions and Poisons Pretty Animated Potions - Small Bottles Edition Potion Replacer 0.2 (animated potions mod, no DLC by Aleanne) Unique Booze Bottles Unique Booze Bottles Alternate Names Version With this load order I'm already getting the EXACT visual effects that I was aiming for on all potions and alcohol. The trick, of course, is to find a Mator Smash setting that correctly forwards all of CACO's non-visual elements, such as Value, Weight, and especially Effects, into a new patch, even though they would normally be overwritten by everything below CACO, all while preserving the visual effects provided by the potion mods found lower in the list. Now, I already have several patches made by other people that nearly accomplish this goal, but it seems that I should be able to use Mator Smash to do this even without those patches. Looking at my complete load order I anticipate similar issues occuring when I try to smash any NPC AI overhaul with a face mod, such as: Immersive College of Winterhold <==> Makeovers by Mizzog - College of Winterhold, or Enhanced Skyrim Factions - The Companions Guild <==> Bijin's Warmaidens, etc... It's basically the same issue right? How do you use Mator Smash to preserve both the AI of the NPC overhaul as well as the beautiful faces found in facial mods? I feel like once I understand how to solve even one of these conflicts I'll be able to resolve just about anything. Ideally, I'd like to see another video tutorial demonstrating how to resolve this type of conflict using specific mods with a specific outcome in mind, just like the examples I listed. I understand that's a lot to ask, so any help you could give would be greatly appreciated!

In response to post #41277490. While quality assurance is an important goal, asking authors to withhold mod release until ALL bugs & issues are worked out is an impossible demand - especially for large, complicated mods.