Ariranha wrote: Why don't the publishers themselves pay the modders? After all, many people wouldn't even buy/play some games if it wasn't for the mods. At least the non-hyped gamers, who don't go preordering based on CGI and ads. The publishers profit with the modding community, so they could themselves pay the modders.
- OR -
The gamers could pay the modders as a whole, in advance.
An example on how this could be made: The publishers sell the game and a separate modding tool. Without the modding tool, the gamer wouldn't be able to use mods. The money for the game would go to the companies that made it and the money for the modding tool would go to a common fund for modders. The money on the fund would be shared, periodically, among the registered modders.
"But how would they share the money?" Each modder would receive a fixed amount for each "thumbs up" on its mod. After a certain amount of thumbs, the mod would be evaluated by the company that made the game. Based on this evaluation, the modder would receive a variable amount. Top modders would receive a third amount as a bonus.
"Oh, but this is highly subjective!" As all other criteria would be.
"Oh, but this would be too complex!" As all other paid system to modders would be.
Modders would receive for the good work, the donate button would still exist, the opportunity to release a free mod would still exist, Nexus would still exist, the gamer would still be able to choose to play with or without mods and pay in advance, no part involved in the relation would be treated unfairly.
MrBadboi wrote: Like many mods, they are pieces of art, many times out of passion. When it comes to adding money to the equation. It only complicates things. Like how money and family can complicate things and end up ruining relationships between each other. I'm sure many of us have experienced this.
It would end up dividing the community for those who would want others to pay for their work. No one likes change, I strongly believe things should stay the way they are. If individuals enjoyed a mod enough and consider the time and effort that went in to creating it. Let them self's decide how much they are willing to donate, if they wish to contribute at all financially.
If certain individual's create mods and expect to be paid. Your in the wrong community. Mods should loves of labor not profit.
Ghatto wrote: Pretty simple answer is that it's not a good return on investment.
Even with a well thought out hypothetical like you've provided, it's pretty clear to me that any form of free vs. paid mods would have a remarkable difference in community size. Simply, there'll be a much much lower number of modders and mod-users in any case where mods or mod tools are paid for. A community like here on the Nexus would be a shadow of its current self.
The only situation that will have the least impact is your first hypothetical: where mods and tools are still free, but the publisher pays some modders for whatever arbitrary reason. Since all participants have the same starting point, there's less barriers to entry. However they payments would have to be after the fact (after free mod publish) in order to avoid comparing the releases to licensed DLC and all the employment, and product qualification legalities that come with it. The only way I can think of how this would backfire badly is if the publisher decided to offset payments to modders by having an increased game purchase price (higher barrier to entry).
Vesuvius1745 wrote: You are missing a third option: DO NOTHING. The "system" has worked fine for over a decade without finances and pencil pushing brought into it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
But more than that, it's not about a better system, it's about a worse one. Steam was flooded with garbage mods the moment this went up. There were some good mods, but even those had to be stripped down to avoid using resources "borrowed" from others. People were literally paying for mods they can now get for free on the Nexus and which are of higher quality than the pay-for version. In an "open source" community where everybody "borrows" from everybody else, something like this is difficult to implement without killing the golden goose.
So again: the current system isn't broke, and has worked great for over 10 years going all the way back to Morrowind. If something is working great--you leave it alone.
MrBadboi wrote: As you explained, it only creates even more complications. I'm not against people who would like to earn some revenue from their work if possible, I'll state that.
But this who subject is very touchy, things should of been left alone from the start. When ever money gets involved everything ends up getting complicated. We could go in to a long debate about the subject but I' rather not haha..
If it works why change it, everything was fine before steam ever allowed such an option. It's created so much chaos and controversy over the matter. If Bethesda really wants to profit off talented modders. Let them make official DLC's of these mods, that's the only way i see this working, and the proper cuts going to any tools used. For copyright issues, pirating off others has always been around and always will be around, get use to it.
Creating even more DRM around the issue will just create more useless restrictions.
Vesuvius1745 wrote: If Bethesdsa REALLY gave a carp about modders, they'd contract the talented ones out to create DLC content for them. But of course they don't. They'd rather the modders do all the work, deal with all the headaches, while Bethesda got most of the money.
AccessionSoft wrote: What do you guys think of a system like this?
<Link Removed> Micalov
The community can decide to donate directly to the artists to compensate them for their time.
Another question: How many people would make a single dungeon for $50?
@Vesu & @MrBad - Agree with you both. Take SkyWind or Tamriel Rebuilt, or Beyond Skyrim! The vast amount of modders, artists, composers etc working on these huge projects, who are making "dlc"+ sized content, on a much better scale that Bethesda's original DLC!
Why are they doing this? (After all, they get no financial benefit from it, so what bother?)
Because they love the game. Adding money into the equation doesn't equate to better mods. We're getting AMAZING mods (And, looking back from Oblivion, and Morrowind, the mods have only IMPROVED!) NOW. Adding money won't change that. Infact, there will be great modders out there who go: "Ohh, that mod on sale looks good, maybe if I take the idea, use assets and resources from free mods and other modders (With permission), then I can make a better mod, for free!" Boom, that mod now has a better, free version. So why bother paying for it to begin with?
A visible, clear donation button (Perhaps after you endore a mod, for example), is the best way a modder can ever gain income. Several talented modders have gone to do other projects, and their careers have been born from modding - Why the need for change?
I'll give you a personal viewpoint. I make and produce music. I'm pretty good at it, but I'm not amazing. I could quite easily get a record deal, make some cash from it, but would I really enjoy it as much? Deadlines and community expectations (ESPECIALLY when they've paid for something!) hurt your enjoyment of creating something. I do produce for the enjoyment of it, not to make money. Most modders mod, not because they're aiming to get donations or strike rich, or do it as a job, but because they love modding, because it's a hobby they ENJOY.
Drawing a line under recent events and moving on
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@Vesu & @MrBad - Agree with you both. Take SkyWind or Tamriel Rebuilt, or Beyond Skyrim! The vast amount of modders, artists, composers etc working on these huge projects, who are making "dlc"+ sized content, on a much better scale that Bethesda's original DLC!
Why are they doing this? (After all, they get no financial benefit from it, so what bother?)
Because they love the game. Adding money into the equation doesn't equate to better mods. We're getting AMAZING mods (And, looking back from Oblivion, and Morrowind, the mods have only IMPROVED!) NOW. Adding money won't change that. Infact, there will be great modders out there who go: "Ohh, that mod on sale looks good, maybe if I take the idea, use assets and resources from free mods and other modders (With permission), then I can make a better mod, for free!" Boom, that mod now has a better, free version. So why bother paying for it to begin with?
A visible, clear donation button (Perhaps after you endore a mod, for example), is the best way a modder can ever gain income. Several talented modders have gone to do other projects, and their careers have been born from modding - Why the need for change?
I'll give you a personal viewpoint. I make and produce music. I'm pretty good at it, but I'm not amazing. I could quite easily get a record deal, make some cash from it, but would I really enjoy it as much? Deadlines and community expectations (ESPECIALLY when they've paid for something!) hurt your enjoyment of creating something. I do produce for the enjoyment of it, not to make money. Most modders mod, not because they're aiming to get donations or strike rich, or do it as a job, but because they love modding, because it's a hobby they ENJOY.