DarkHighlord69

For right now, it seems that random and unexplained crashes are a way of life with FONV. All you can do is minimize the sorce/cause of crashes and pray for a new patch that fixes all these new glitches and bugs.

A lot of times the CTD issue is fixed by finding a mod or mods that cause a crash. In about 75-80% of the cases I have examined however, the corrupt save game issue comes up later in the game and then you will start having travel/fast travel problems in the Novac area. When in doubt, always try to find a stable and clean save game and start your testing of the mods from what you know to be a working and clean save. I have had the corrupted save game issue in 5 different games I started since the first day of release. It happened with every game after over 100 hours, but it took me months to understand what the root cause of the Novac CTDs was. Here is some test results and conclusions based on the last 3 days of testing and crashing. This is what my saves looked like before and after I found the corrupt save file. This was before I made a clean save. Save 504 Courier of Doom Mojave Wasteland 25 34 35.fos 4094kb Save 505 Courier of Doom Ranger Station Charlie 25 36 07.fos 4092kb (Before removing all the conflicting mods causing CTDs in Novac on fast travel.) ----------------- (After deleting the conflicting mods, making a clean save, and restarting the game engine.) Save 506 FixedNC 25 40 49.fos 3583kb autosave.fos 3578kb Save 507 Courier of Doom Novac 25 41 23.fos 3636kb Save 508 Courier of Doom Novac 25 45 11.fos 3636kb ------------------- This is a corrupted save file! Notice how small the file size difference is? Save 506 Courier of Doom Ranger Station Charlie 25 38 57 4116kb Save 507 Courier of Doom Ranger Station Charlie 25 45 00.fos 4108kb Only by repeatedly error checking can you even identify that it is corrupt. The save file size often changes by as much as 200-300kb between clean saves in a consecutive data series; so it is almost impossible to detect just by looking at the file sizes alone. Both of these saves and the 5 that followed were completely corrupted and showing about 10% overall data corruption and about 200 file errors. All the actual file errors I could find were directly related to the vanilla NPC's AI packages and level/equipment lists in Novac, and 2-3 cells that were loading around it. (I am using a data/error checking program I wrote and adapted to do the error checking. Because it is proprietary to my work, I can't actually post the error logs and data findings. I am also not sure of the legal ramifications of using it on the proprietary FOS system the game uses. I have a public beta of the program that could be used to test FOS saves for corruptions, but am waiting to hear from Bethesda on whether it would pose any conflicts or legal issues.)

That invisible creature is a Nightkin from a spawn point for IWS if I am not mistaken. I had him by the McBrides brahmin pen before, but he seems to have vanished without IWS running. He might pop up after the Reppconn quest, not sure, will have to see in about an hour after it is done. As for giving me kudos, I think I am quite happy with knowing you can play the game again. Finally solving this problem for you and all the others who had it is all I really desired. The fact that I can play through Novac is all I ever wanted out of all the long hours of frustration.

Novac Crashes Most of the time (80-90%), the crashes on fast travel/normal travel into Novac are the result of a corrupt save game, or a mod that has some kind of AI and level list/equipment conflict with the Novac cells. In most cases it seems to be a combination of both, but the major underlying reason is ALWAYS going to be a corrupt save game. After over 48 hours of hardcore testing and data runs this is the only reason I can consistently find for all my crashes and for crashes which several very experienced modders/testers were having. In my case it was a corrupt save combined with a few overhaul/global change type mods. I had this problem right after the 1.3 patch release, and solved it by going back about 50 saves and deleting all my corrupt and crashing save games. Now with 1.4 and a complete reinstall of the game it was occuring again, but only on the last 10-15 saves I had made. The best way to solve the crashes is to go back in your saves and find one where you can still fast travel to Novac. You might have to enter TMM 1 into the console if it is a game from before you got to Novac. You can go back to a clean save so you don't have all the markers revealed after that. That is the only thing that seems to work if you are having the CTDs. Once you find a good clean save, then proceed on with game play. I can't find any other way to do this, and also if you do have a corrupt game, it will fubar and gork the whole rest of the game for you. Playing on a corrupt save is not something you should do, or can do for very long. This is what will tell you if your save is corrupt. Let me say that in every instance of a corrupt save I tested, this was the one sure sign of that. If you have managed to get to Novac but then are crashing with more than 25-30 mods active, or find that you cannot fast travel with more than 25-30 mods activated, then you have a corrupt save, no debate possible. If you are still having crashes on fast travel with a clean save, or loading a clean save inside Novac, then uncheck all your mods on a clean copy of an uncorrupted save. Fast travel to Novac and then start activating mods until you start getting crashes and hangups. I know it is a pain in the processor, but this was the only way I was able to stop the crashes and continue on with the game. You will be able to find the conflicting mods in your load order and then can eliminate those and move on. You will probably end up killing off some well loved mods, but in this case there is literally no choice. I restarted the game with no mods active, made a clean save outside of Doc's house, then tried to fast travel to Novac. That way I knew I was going from a game that worked. Did it this way to ensure that corruptions in my old saves were not still causing the crashes. Here is a list of mods that I can prove will crash the game around the Novac area. Still working out exactly why some of them do it, but it is definitive that they do in fact cause CTDs and locked up loads after you get to Novac. --------------- Vurt's WFO version 1.7- [some sort of mesh/texture error. I rolled back to 1.6 and could fast travel and load a save in the Novac area. Have some screens of the trees around Novac which show a mesh problem in the areas on the interstate (near Dinky) and around the beginning of the road to Reppconn.] Increased Wasteland Spawns- [Had over 25 crashes with the plugs and .esm active, none on fast travel since deactivating it. This mod has massive AI/level list conflicts after the 1.3 patch, and even worse on 1.4. The whole area around Novac seems to compound and magnify whatever general AI/level list fault is in conflict with IWS.] Better Loading Screens- [Not sure why, but there is an overall problem with the memory involving the loading commands and routines in the vanilla game] WARZONES - Misanthropy Pure- [Don't know why or even care right now. Too many crashes with this in other areas and cells, not just Novac. Some people can play this mod just fine, but I see a lot that can't for some reason or other. No disrespect to MGE, but I can't use this mod at all.] Simple Streelights- [if it is misplaced in the load order it will cause crashes in Novac and the surrounding cells, especially around Electro City headquarters and Helios One. I had to play with the order for a bit, still not sure if it will cause other crashes or not. I have seen a lot of reports saying it has a general conflict, but they were varied as to the causes.] 1aNovacPlayersRoom- [Causes crashes about 75% of the time, and with it unchecked had no more crashes. Was the last thing I deactivated before my game stopped crashing in Novac. This mod also inserts items like Junders Plunkett's finger, Cook Cook's stew, and human remains into various fridges all over the wasteland, so there is a whole lot of general conflicts with the mod. Still an alpha anyway, so my fault for not trying it a few times on a clean save.] --------- Those are the ones I found, but I'm sure there are a few more I don't use that will cause the same type of crashes. The problem seems to be with the male and female Novac citizens that you see the first time you FT into Novac. Those two seem to cause all the level list and AI conflicts. I have screen shots and error logs to prove it, but I am not Obsidian or Bethsoft, so I unable stop it or fix that game engine problem. This was the load order/mod list I was running with the crashing and conflicting mods. I was still working on unchecking and checking when I exported. [X] FalloutNV.esm [X] IWR.esm [X] MoraelinsMaces.ESM [X] More Perks.esm [X] More Perks for Companions.esm [X] Caliber.esm [X] WARZONES - Misanthropy Pure.esm [X] ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esm [X] ELECTRO-CITY - Highways and Byways.esm [X] Project Nevada - Core.esm [X] Project Nevada - Equipment.esm [ ] NVR-Strip.esm [X] IWS-Core.esm [X] MoMod.esm [X] IWR - Rebuilt.esp [X] OperationFixedTerrain.esp [ ] SimpleStreetLights.esp [X] VMS44Fixed.esp [X] Brotherhood and House Alliance.esp [X] Portable Tent.esp [X] UHNV.esp [X] UHNV-More Mannequins.esp [X] PerkEveryLevel.esp [X] More Perks Update.esp [X] More Perks for Companions Update.esp [X] Improved Sound FX.esp [X] Improved Sound FX - Gunshot Distance Tweak.esp [X] Improved Sound FX - Weapon Sharing Fix.esp [ ] Devil'sMistressReturns.esp [X] WeaponsOfTheShogunate.esp [ ] BOAt51b.esp [ ] Boacombat2glove.esp [ ] Colossus NV.esp [X] DragonskinTacticalOutfit.esp [X] DragonskinBonusPack.esp [X] Glove_be_gone.esp [ ] HDTshop.esp [X] NCR Rearmament v1.5.esp [X] Neckchains.esp [ ] sjs_bellydancedress.esp [ ] jailhouserockette.esp [X] GBetterHookers.esp [ ] NVType3 Bone Armor.esp [X] MoraelinsProfessionalsSuitMod.esp [ ] NVLadyoutfitXOH.esp [X] boa ncrpahelmet.esp [X] manwithnoname.esp [X] ilbuonorevolver.esp [X] clintsfistfulrevolver.esp [ ] Bandshirts_NV.esp [ ] NWIxiaarmor1.esp [ ] Nidaoutfitv1.esp [ ] MoraelinsMacheteReplacer.esp [ ] AllCompanionsEssential 2.0.esp [ ] Follower Home Marker.esp [ ] Bella.esp [ ] RWKNV.esp [X] Light Step ED-E.esp [X] NiceCass.esp [X] SweetVeronica.esp [ ] NVWillow.esp [X] Sex Try.esp [ ] AWSW.esp [X] BetterLoadingText.esp [X] FNVIcons.esp [X] NewRecipes.esp [ ] NV Interiors - West Vegas Fringe.esp [ ] NV Interiors - El Ray Motel.esp [ ] NV Interiors - Cottonwood Cove.esp [ ] 1aNovacPlayersRoom.esp [ ] SecretStash80.esp [X] Imp's Timescale Adjuster.esp [X] ELECTRO-CITY - Inventory Sorters Compatibility Patch - RegularCATEYEvalue.esp [X] Fellout.esp [X] Interior Lighting Overhaul-Realistic Interiors-Full.esp [X] Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp [ ] Ahzteks Pistol and SMG Replacements.esp [ ] NVFR-Version 1.esp [ ] NVR-Version_10.esp [ ] NVR-NPCs.esp [ ] NVR-ELECTRO-CTIY_Patch.esp [X] IWS-Core-Patrols.esp [X] IWS-AS-LowSpawns.esp [X] MoMod-Aliens.esp [X] MoMod-Terminators.esp [X] Vurt's WFO.esp (Version 1.7) [X] Ahzteks Weapon Overhaul.esp [X] CaliberX_Ammo_Update_1dot3.esp [ ] Master Merged.esp This is the load list I am running now. I had to arrange it by hand, BOSS just made it worse when I tried to use it. [X] FalloutNV.esm [X] IWR.esm [X] MoraelinsMaces.ESM [X] More Perks.esm [X] More Perks for Companions.esm [X] Caliber.esm [X] Project Nevada - Core.esm [X] Project Nevada - Equipment.esm [X] ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esm [X] ELECTRO-CITY - Highways and Byways.esm [X] NVR-Strip.esm [X] MoMod.esm [X] Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp [X] IWR - Rebuilt.esp [X] OperationFixedTerrain.esp [X] SimpleStreetLights.esp [X] VMS44Fixed.esp [X] Brotherhood and House Alliance.esp [X] Portable Tent.esp [X] UHNV.esp [X] UHNV-More Mannequins.esp [X] PerkEveryLevel.esp [X] More Perks Update.esp [X] More Perks for Companions Update.esp [X] Improved Sound FX.esp [X] Improved Sound FX - Gunshot Distance Tweak.esp [X] Improved Sound FX - Weapon Sharing Fix.esp [X] Devil'sMistressReturns.esp [X] WeaponsOfTheShogunate.esp [X] BOAt51b.esp [X] Boacombat2glove.esp [X] Colossus NV.esp [X] DragonskinTacticalOutfit.esp [X] DragonskinBonusPack.esp [X] Glove_be_gone.esp [X] HDTshop.esp [X] NCR Rearmament v1.5.esp [X] Neckchains.esp [X] sjs_bellydancedress.esp [X] jailhouserockette.esp [X] GBetterHookers.esp [X] NVType3 Bone Armor.esp [X] MoraelinsProfessionalsSuitMod.esp [X] NVLadyoutfitXOH.esp [X] boa ncrpahelmet.esp [X] manwithnoname.esp [X] ilbuonorevolver.esp [X] clintsfistfulrevolver.esp [X] Bandshirts_NV.esp [X] NWIxiaarmor1.esp [X] Nidaoutfitv1.esp [X] MoraelinsMacheteReplacer.esp [X] AllCompanionsEssential 2.0.esp [X] Follower Home Marker.esp [X] Bella.esp [X] RWKNV.esp [X] Light Step ED-E.esp [X] NiceCass.esp [X] SweetVeronica.esp [X] NVWillow.esp [X] Sex Try.esp [X] AWSW.esp [X] FNVIcons.esp [X] NewRecipes.esp [X] NV Interiors - West Vegas Fringe.esp [X] NV Interiors - El Ray Motel.esp [X] NV Interiors - Cottonwood Cove.esp [X] SecretStash80.esp [X] Imp's Timescale Adjuster.esp [X] ELECTRO-CITY - Inventory Sorters Compatibility Patch - RegularCATEYEvalue.esp [X] Fellout.esp [X] Interior Lighting Overhaul-Realistic Interiors-Full.esp [X] Ahzteks Pistol and SMG Replacements.esp [X] NVFR-Version 1.esp [X] NVR-Version_10.esp [X] NVR-NPCs.esp [X] NVR-ELECTRO-CTIY_Patch.esp [X] Vurt's WFO.esp (Version 1.6) [X] MoMod-Aliens.esp [X] MoMod-Terminators.esp [X] Ahzteks Weapon Overhaul.esp [X] CaliberX_Ammo_Update_1dot3.esp [X] Master Merged.esp No crashes in the last 10 times I fast traveled and no crashes the last 10 times I walked in from different spots surrounding Novac like Helios One, Gibson's, Toxic Dump Site, Reppconn, and Ranger Station Charlie. I had a string of corrupted saves and conflicting load lists on two different games on two different computers, so I know this is what works to solve the CTDs. Hope this helps everyone having this problem. I know I have seen an awful lot of complaints and posts all over the net, not just on Nexus and Bethsoft.

Came on here to find a solution to the exact same thing. Spent ALL day yesterday doing what you did to pin down the mod causing it. Same thing with me, got it to fast travel in and was able to walk in to Novac with a lot of my mods disabled, but so far cannot find one that seems to be the key factor. Looks like it is the number of mods causing the crashes, but I am completely baffled as to why and what exact load order would stop it. I have randomly unchecked for hours, and thought I found the exact mod, then when I went back to the newly editted LO, a crash or screen lock everytime I either travel into Novac on foot, fast travel, or teleport in with my marker. Repeatedly I have deleted the one mod it seemed was the tipping point, only to have the lock or crash happen with a new mod as the last one I checked off again. I'm going to have to stop playing this freaking game if this is going to be a continuing issue. I have to go to Novac to update the main quest, and now I can't even enter the damn townb at all. If anyone has a fix, please post. I am a pro beta tester, and have never seen a problem I couldn't pin down and isolate. About to admit defeat and go play Witcher and AC3 for a while.

------ The game that Obsidian recieved after the whole legal war was finished WAS NOT in any way, shape or form a product that could be released. I am really good friends with someone who just got laid off by Obsidian. He says that they got a game that was 80% complete and was full of bugs and errors that they had no idea how to fix, correct or work around. They did not know the game engine, and from the reports I have, they did not care or want to learn how to really fix it or make it better. Also I am told that the first version released on launch day was only about 85% completed and they all knew it was a sick dog that needed to be put down. Instead they let us have it way too soon, and in a totally broken state of existence. Evidently the base game is still only about 90-95% working, with about 10% data fault errors and completely broken commands and file modules. In particular they had and are still having huge issues with the AI packages and NPC commands. They evidently just decided to do cheap fixes or not even fix it, and this is resulting in the consumer's pain and suffering trying to make this thing work. Obsidian has a long history of releasing games in unfinished or broken condition, and this is well reported online and in industry forums. I know this for a fact because at one point I was beta-testing some of their products and working for another studio that was allied with them. They recently laid off their best project manager and most of the top level designers and software geniuses, which makes it even harder for them to fix the engine problems. They got rid of most, if not all of the people who might have been able to fine tune the engine, and also the ones who would have hammered away at the problem until a solution was found. A gutted and demoralized company would not be my first pick to try to fix or much less release and maintain software support for something that was already known to be out-dated and buggy from the base files up. Just for historic record that I am noting this. Explains why there are so many problems with this game compared to FO3. FO3 was a nightmare after release, but this is a never ending hell of seeing the huge and wonderful game, and then finding all the bad stuff and getting lost in hopeless frustration. An unplayable game will eventually stop being played and lose them lots of money they had counted on. According to some ex-employees and some current insiders, Obsidian is headed for some form of bankruptcy real soon. The problems with the release of FONV and the DLCs will not help at all to reverse their financial woes. Hope we are all not left in the cold looking at a beloved game that none of us can play.

Gothika, Hats off to you and a standing ovation for all your help and comments to people having problems. See you wading in and slugging it out with a whole host of issues on the forums, so major respect and love to you. It's stuff like this that makes us such a great community at Nexus. Increase and Blessing!

I already posted about the companions, and yeah , seems to be yet another issue that is making my game drop dead. -------- I have found that most of the companions made before the 1.3 patch can cause huge lag problems, hangtimes, crashes and a lot of other nasty glitches because of the way the patches changed the AI packages and some leveled load lists. Some of them that are placed inside locations like Prospector Saloon and Vicky and Vance Casino actually cause crashes or total system lockdowns. I have been testing this as well as a friend who is a game designer, and we both have found this to be true. Looks like a lot of the AI issues with the old companions don't really show up until you either run a large load order, or have them out of place or writing over other vanilla AI packages and list commands. I hate this, as a lot of my old companions are bugging out the game or cause some very bad corrupted saves. One of the biggest problems I have found is companions built on the old GECK or made before the 1.3 patch is that they corrupt a lot of saves. I have a beta program I created to test save games for integrity, file errors and corruptions. In every issue or case where I had a save game corrupt or glitch, it was related to old AI packs or companions from the old patches and GECK. ------------------------------------------ YES, COMPANIONS ARE A HUGE PROBLEM AND CAUSE MANY CRASHES AND CORRUPT SAVES!!!! Last night I did the first run to Primm with Raider Girl Cyan as a companion. Was running fine for 5 minutes, then I could start seeing little issues like flashing textures, slow downs, freezes, and just that general feeling that the game was getting corrupted somehow. Also my save games started bloating and getting bigger with each new save. Start out with a 2.3 mb save and by the time I hit the front door of V+V my save was 3.9 mb. Also had 5 or more CTDs, three hangups where the FPS dropped so low it finally crashed, and several times in combat where I crashed while Cyan was killing someone. Went back and started from right before I hired Cyan and did the run again in as close a manner as possible. Save game is 2.5 mb when I hit the door to V+V, have only had one CTD I found was from IWS-Patrols and IWS-Guards. After I reset my load order and put IWS and Mo-Mod dead last, no crashes, no real graphic isses apart from my crappy sytem, and an overall smooth run for 3 hours. Then I tried to take a vanilla companion and see if it repeated the problem. For sure it did. I had Veronica with me and had 4 crashes, three load screen hangs, and a whole load of problems with textures not showing up, NPCs just frozen in place, combat causing CTDs, you name it and it happened. My save game was 2.1mb when I started and after only 30 minutes or so of play, it hit 4.9MB, like oh my how is that possible. OH CRAP!!!!

Might help some people, as I have been working this problem for a while: I am a professional game tester and make a living doing alpha and beta runs on programs. I have never seen a bunch of glitches and system/hardware killers like this one (FONV) seems to have hiding in it. I have spent the last 27 hours testing this out to find a real soulution. I have blown-up a hard drive and burned out a graphics chip, so maybe we can all learn from that. ---------- It has been reported by quite a few very experienced modders and mod users that having too many mods in the FOMM or in your loader program will cause crashes and freezes. Looks like the load order thing with too many mods is right on the money. I took out about 30 mods and got my LO down under 100 and I stopped having most of the load screen freezes and hangups. I also took out some mods with weapons level lists and some other glitches I found, and now I can get in the loading zones between cells with little issues, and also fast travel and go in and out of doors. I almost completely stopped having load screen lock-ups and freezes, but I went back to some mods and it started getting worse. My crashes seem to be coming from way-too-many well loved mods still being in my load list, and I'm slowly and painfully eliminating a lot of my old favorites. I recommend everyone go over their mods and trim down or weed out the old ones from before the 1.3 patch, and to try to get the Load Order at least below 100 and ideally down below 75. Last night after I unchecked 25 random mods and got to 78 being loaded, I only had one hard crash in over 2 hours of play, and only 3-4 of those annoying load screen hangups. It doesn't seem to matter what mods they are, just that I had over 100 running. I even tried randomly unchecking for a few hours, and the result was les than 100 sort of stable, under 75-80 and was really smooth and my perfprmance was really great. Just reporting back what I found from a lot of trial and error, and many button pushing almost hard drive killing shutdowns. One of the most painful things about the load screen freezes is that you can't get it to backout, and are forced to do a power kill on the computer to restart. I just wish it would CTD, but I get hardcore hangups and total system lock with too many mods loaded. I have found that most of the companions made before the 1.3 patch can cause huge lag problems, hangtimes, crashes and a lot of other nasty glitches because of the way the patches changed the AI packages and some leveled load lists. Some of them that are placed inside locations like Prospector Saloon and Vicky and Vance Casino actually cause crashes or total system lockdowns. I have been testing this as well as a friend who is a game designer, and we both have found this to be true. Looks like a lot of the AI issues with the old companions don't really show up until you either run a large load order, or have them out of place or writing over other vanilla AI packages and list commands. I hate this, as a lot of my old companions are bugging out the game or cause some very bad corrupted saves. One of the biggest problems I have found is companions built on the old GECK or made before the 1.3 patch is that they corrupt a lot of saves. I have a beta program I created to test save games for integrity, file errors and corruptions. In every issue or case where I had a save game corrupt or glitch, it was related to old AI packs or companions from the old patches and GECK. Still working on this problem specific to the companion mods, but so far I have 5 different people who verify that it is an issue for them as well. I'll post some more as I work things out, and I will be waiting to see if anyone else can find solutions to the load order. It's going to suck if I can't run more than 75-100. ------ Some more I posted at FONV Nexxus. ------- Inactive mods or unchecked mods will not affect the load list. As long as you have less than 100 checked, and about 90-95 seems to the danger zone on the edge of crashing, the game will stop hanging up, or at leas that is the evididence that 48 hours of testing and error have shown me. When I unchecked the mods I just left them in FOMM as unchecked and innactive. I am also now running 94 mods with no problems, but at the magic 100 it starts to crash. I have been playing with the load list and had it confirmed that around 90 it gets shaky but still playable but somewhere between 90-100 (and depending on your mod list it seems) it will lock up on loading and kill them game. ------------------------ CAN SOMEONE ELSE PLEASE TRY THIS FIX AND GIVE SOME INPUT??? I have a few IMs and chats from people saying it worked, and for me it did, along with my girlfriend and about 10 other gamers in out little modders club.

Remove the New Vegas Stutter Remover first thing of you happen to use it. Then get rid of Bottle That Water until there is an update to the mod. I had to take Bottle That Water out because for some reason it is not compatable with the new 1.4 patch. This seems to be the case with a lot of mods that were made on the old GECK and built on games from before the 1.3 game patch. I have not been able to get my water bottles filled and it was not working for me after I patched to 1.4 on Saturday. It was working on Friday on the !.3 patch but had some issues, so I'm pretty sure it is because of the last 2 patch updates that it no longer works. Also check out my post about constant freezes and game hangups, it might give you some more info or ideas on how to get the game to stop locking up the system.

Might help some people, as I have been working this problem for a while: I am a professional game tester and make a living doing alpha and beta runs on programs. I have never seen a bunch of glitches and system/hardware killers like this one (FONV) seems to have hiding in it. I have spent the last 27 hours testing this out to find a real soulution. I have blown-up a hard drive and burned out a graphics chip, so maybe we can all learn from that. ---------- It has been reported by quite a few very experienced modders and mod users that having too many mods in the FOMM or in your loader program will cause crashes and freezes. Looks like the load order thing with too many mods is right on the money. I took out about 30 mods and got my LO down under 100 and I stopped having most of the load screen freezes and hangups. I also took out some mods with weapons level lists and some other glitches I found, and now I can get in the loading zones between cells with little issues, and also fast travel and go in and out of doors. I almost completely stopped having load screen lock-ups and freezes, but I went back to some mods and it started getting worse. My crashes seem to be coming from way-too-many well loved mods still being in my load list, and I'm slowly and painfully eliminating a lot of my old favorites. I recommend everyone go over their mods and trim down or weed out the old ones from before the 1.3 patch, and to try to get the Load Order at least below 100 and ideally down below 75. Last night after I unchecked 25 random mods and got to 78 being loaded, I only had one hard crash in over 2 hours of play, and only 3-4 of those annoying load screen hangups. It doesn't seem to matter what mods they are, just that I had over 100 running. I even tried randomly unchecking for a few hours, and the result was les than 100 sort of stable, under 75-80 and was really smooth and my perfprmance was really great. Just reporting back what I found from a lot of trial and error, and many button pushing almost hard drive killing shutdowns. One of the most painful things about the load screen freezes is that you can't get it to backout, and are forced to do a power kill on the computer to restart. I just wish it would CTD, but I get hardcore hangups and total system lock with too many mods loaded. I have found that most of the companions made before the 1.3 patch can cause huge lag problems, hangtimes, crashes and a lot of other nasty glitches because of the way the patches changed the AI packages and some leveled load lists. Some of them that are placed inside locations like Prospector Saloon and Vicky and Vance Casino actually cause crashes or total system lockdowns. I have been testing this as well as a friend who is a game designer, and we both have found this to be true. Looks like a lot of the AI issues with the old companions don't really show up until you either run a large load order, or have them out of place or writing over other vanilla AI packages and list commands. I hate this, as a lot of my old companions are bugging out the game or cause some very bad corrupted saves. One of the biggest problems I have found is companions built on the old GECK or made before the 1.3 patch is that they corrupt a lot of saves. I have a beta program I created to test save games for integrity, file errors and corruptions. In every issue or case where I had a save game corrupt or glitch, it was related to old AI packs or companions from the old patches and GECK. Still working on this problem specific to the companion mods, but so far I have 5 different people who verify that it is an issue for them as well. I'll post some more as I work things out, and I will be waiting to see if anyone else can find solutions to the load order. It's going to suck if I can't run more than 75-100. sorry for all the typos, but my computer is fracked right now and the keyboard is mistyping somtimes.

I have been having the same problem myself. I had the Jade companion running, and after removing that mod, I got in the saloon. I was having repeated crashes there on another save game, but it stoped and now I can't figure out what was causing it. I have had it with two new games since the 1.3 patch, and have seen some people suggest it is an AI issues with some package that uses the saloon as a idle marker. I have had no problems getting in the door after deleting two of my companions that had not been updated since before the 1.3 patch. Now they are not in my game, and no crash entering the saloon anymore. Don't know if that helped, hope you figure it out, because it was really annoying and not being able to start the first quest sucks.

@ Carlos- Thanks, already got a few of the mods like Fellout, but was going to wait for a bit. That whole Project Nevada is sweet, so I am going to have to use that for all the features that are packed in one mod. Already miss my Greande Hotkey and my zoom, so thanks for that nice little list of stuff to get.

This was a question I have heard but not seen yet on the forums. I just finally wore out my ability to play FO3 after over 500 hours. Now I am FINALLY getting on to New Vegas and was thinking of doing it without any mods or with very little except the body mods and some perk mods. Anyone have any thoughs on this?? My idea was to see the game for what is is without changing anything, so as to get a clear idead of what I am modding and covering over or changing. Not sure if the game is so big that it would be hard to do, or anything else. I have done my first 20 hours without any mods but Better Blood and DK Bullettime, but I broke donw and added the Monster Mod last night. Going to do the Type 3 and male body mods, but want to just leave it there for a bit to see the raw form of the game without any extras. Input most welcome, as I don't want to miss out on something that a mod might replace or change.