Thankyou guys, it was a bit of both, I hadn't toggled invalidation and I was opening the wrong upper body to the mesh I have. You know those moments when you realise how stupid you've been, this is one of those. I managed to get it right now. I think i'm going to do a bit of practicing, it's quite good fun dabbling around with things. Makes me wish i'd started learning when I first found this site. Thankyou again guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to point me in the right direction. http://i62.tinypic.com/1604m5d.jpg The amusing part after all that was having my wife walk past and say he looks like one of the village people.