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Posts posted by hangman04
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why father has returned is quite obvious... to make more money.... directly and indirectly....
they are well aware of the advantages that modding has provided for their pc version of the games, they want to replicate same results for their console version and last but not least they wanted a platform for a future paid modding implementation, where they could eliminate the middle man (valve - better split proceedings in 2 than in 3....).
u say that they don't give a damn about their platform problem, which i agree but i also think that they consider this a trial / alpha test run for the platform, and things for them will start when skyrim enhanced will be released, and also it will be the stepping stone for the next games: skyrim VI and Fallout 5 and who knows what other games they have in the workings which will probably be made for full integration in all major platforms through the beth.net ....
I also think that in the end... we will have 2 kinds of authors... pc modders and console modders.... maybe with some cross platform collaboration in the case of some big projects... It's hard to tell how things will unfold as future is not as clear as it used to be.
But my fear is that paid modding and the migration of professional teams from free sites like ours (nexus) to their platforms.... might be a loose loose scenario for everyone, but this may as well be my fear of change and everything will be just fine...
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I admit i am an adblock user, but one day i said wth this site is too good not to share 2 bucks for the add removal :)
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In response to post #36417095. #36458210 is also a reply to the same post.and how are they going to script that limitation ? :)S3PT1M wrote: i will admit, i have been skeptical of Skywind for a long time. I LOVED Morrowind and i thought this would just feel like Skyrim with Morrowind locations. BUT thanks to Bethesda not allowing them to directly take assets from the games i think this forced the devs to TRULY rebuild the game properly.
Now that the project is going to be Nexus supported i know for a FACT that a LOT of the major mod devs are going to jump on this oportunity and help to make one hell of an amazing game.
This project is becoming what i beleive will go down in TES history! TONS of dedicated TES fans coming together not for money but for a love of a classic to re-create a FANTASTIC game.
super hyped for this ONE QUESTION THO!
is "Skywind" going to count as a 'mod' at this point? as its all new assets there is no need for the original games. so is it then going to be a standalone game? as in .exe double click and go?havochot wrote: you need a copy of skyrim and morrowind. -
In response to post #24682284. #24682924, #24688774, #24689099, #24689669, #24712014, #24712544 are all replies on the same post.the only think they Beth could do, the least, is to invest a fraction of the revenues in the functionality of the CK, cause the better their sdk is, the greater the possibility to make complex mods, which can be charged to a dlc level and can probably attract professional groups, small indie studios etc.Acidbuk wrote:sunshinenbrick wrote: Good points. What I am trying to find out is where the morality, the respect in all of this.
I asked a question earlier but I think it got lost among the longer posts.
When the first Beth sdk was released was it just a big TOC or was there a friendly dialouge between the developer and community?
My reason for asking is becasue the way that the pay for mods has been rolled out is very cruel to the authors who made them because they made them out of the good will and love of games, with I imagine the blessing of Beth... I mean they have had some 10 years to take legal action.
My point is that this is a nasty way to intrduce their customers to the developing world of digital copyright. Why is there no communication from them? Why not talk to their audiences like adults as let's face it, most of us saw something like this was inevitable. But why oh why so aggressively? Or just plain clumsy??Acidbuk wrote: Bethesda has a history of just dropping the creation-kit with an EULA that when you crunch down the legal speak boils to "Go Nuts. Just don't charge anyone for it". which is standard fare for most SDK's from pretty much any Developer that puts one out. Oh I agree with you, this is an absolutely brutal way to introduce a community that has co-operated for years, to the concept of digital copyright and licensing. licensing is not something anyone really wants to do, its one of those necessary evils which come part and parcel of Software development and its amazingly awesome that as a community we (collectively Users and Creators) have been able to avoid using them, instead using an informal "Please don't steal my stuff just ask if you want to use it" unfortunately as this moves forward, we are almost certainly going to see the term "licensing" as things formalise up between paid and Free mods and what can and cannot be used. I suspect Bethesda will keep quiet and ride out the storm of malcontent until things dye down, then they'll come out with some PR speak about 'We are Bethesda value your input on the recent opportunities for monetization of mods, and we are listening to your feed back and moving forward together with the community'
As for why now? that I couldn't tell you., I would kind of get it if they did this for Fallout 4 or TES-6 whenever that comes out because your dealing with a blank slate. but injecting this into an already vibrant and established ecosystem? is like introducing an invasive plant species. Everyone is scrambling - I really have Sympathy for Robin/Dark0ne right now, Guy had to cancel a holiday to deal with the fallout (no pun intended) from this, between Mod authors taking their mods down to migrate to the workshop, other mod authors scrambling to take their mods down because they are afraid someone will take their work and put IT on the workshop for money as their own (DMCA's are no easy thing), and users trying to download as many mods as they can in panic in case their favourite mods go Pay-Wall. its got to be just a little bit insane, investing all that time and money in the infrastructure upgrade was forward thinking. just not in the way he would have liked I guess.
I do find Valves/Bethesda TOC's morally questionable, in particular how its al-edged Chesko was told by a Valve employee that it was okay to use someone else's free content and include that and charge of it and not have to ask any permission what so-ever, that is not Chesko fault. However I find the concept of Early Access Mods Morally dubious - Early access it and of itself is tittering on the brink, paying for Early Access mods is so far down the slippery slope that I doubt you could even see the top any more.sunshinenbrick wrote: I think they did it before the realease of the new games so all this stuff thats happening now will have (in their hopeful opinion) died down by then.Jake_Dragon wrote: Sorry posted in the wrong placeAcidbuk wrote: But that's the thing yeah. it doesn't make sense from a business of physiological perspective. it they were trying to warm people up to the idea of paid mods its far easier to do warm people up to it on a new Product, and with an existing one. For Better or worse Most people people are psychologically firm with the idea mods should be free. - Right or wrong, I'm just saying that's how it is because its "the way its always been". so trying to change that with a new Product is much much better than trying to Bludgeon it into an existing IP like Skyrim because there is a LOT of fear, a whole big lot of it heaped in large ominous spades, because people are afraid of losing their favourite mods. or because of the interconnected nature of mods - having to buy one mod to play another one. its a rabbit warren than don't end.
. I don't think they would have had anywhere near the backlash if they'd made this change for Fallout 4 or TES6 because people aren't as .psychologically invested in the idea of Mods being free, so long as Bethesda had given assurances that they'd not be introducing this retro-actively for other games. people would have taken them at their word and it would have been far less turmoil. now, that trust is broken and Good Will is something you cannot buy, its earned,sunshinenbrick wrote: I think they need the people on the Nexus (and other free communities) on board more than they would like to let on... the reason? Cuz Fallout 4 and Elder Scrolls VI will more than likely be glitchy unoptimised games. The younger, less experienced console generation who are now moving back to the PC market will be lost, have to start from scratch... without the Nexus, SKSE LOOT and NMM teams, who will at the end of the day the people who will be driving this whole paid modding "revolution" forward.
This does bring me to the wider point though that there is a conflict of interest here. The way it used to be is that we paid ~£45 for our games... they had massive potential and were pretty amazing but (as someone put it earlier) not even close to the experience gained through using mods... in many cases the game was unplayable, remember the whole Skyboost Application Layer scenario.
The point is modders were more inclined to work on these because Bethesda were under a legal obligation to provide a working game. Now, not necessarily so. While there is potential for modders to have some well earned revenue, there will be this playing field where the responsibilities between developer and modder become even more blurry than they are now. There has already been cases of modders complaining they now have to spend more time watching out for copyright and technical issues than they used to because there seems to already be little effort from the developers end in regards to quality control. Welcome to the slippery slope of mission creep and recurring costs.
EDIT: I do not think the problem is so much that a modder should be allowed to charge, what is the issue is exactly how, how much and whether they are being exploited or not.
On the other hand it is possible on long term that this new way of earning money may attract other distributors that may want to compete Valve, and which way is best to compete than giving the author a better cut of the deal. -
In response to post #24706469. #24706799 is also a reply to the same post.Torrenting doesn't really mean the user won't pay for the use of a mod eventually. Some won't indeed, but atm everything a mod author does is a freebie, so everything is relative to what your reference point is $0 or $1k. And regarding the cash flow.... oh well you don't have to consider it like a subscription that brings a steady income every month, but more like a one time gig that cashes out in time :).nekollx wrote:falcor23 wrote: Yes but many mods are being bought, copied uploaded to a torrent sites, (the pirated mod depo in /R/ is a great example look at how fast its growing 51st fasting growing subreddit) , then they are refunded and all the modder did was give it out free again.
This is the problem, the modder has very little control of their mods once its on the workshop. This is coming from someone who has put out hundreds in donations, I really just want modders to get what they deserve but not put people that cant afford 5 dollar mods out in the rain.
This is just a giant mess. A mess that was never necessary. -
PS: now what i would expect from Beth is that they will provide improved CK and maybe other tools to make things really interesting !
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the bad thing is that will start seeing mods on torrents...
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as i said in the previous article, paid mods will also bring professional "mercenaries" that might create better content.
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In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974, #24610559 are all replies on the same post.Dark0ne, don't worry this is just the heat of moment. After 1-2 months everyone will be complaint. Worse things have happened in the gaming industry ( pay to win in mmorpgs, even the dlc system) and people were lashing and swore they would never do this or that, and by the rage one would say that the companies will go bankrupt etc etc. But the truth is that almost every "unethical" change became eventually the norm, and this (mod authors getting payed) is by far the fairest addition. It's just a matter of time. You will probably loose the people who started swearing on the forum and you had to ban them :)).WightMage wrote:Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.
I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.
Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.Kentsui wrote:
Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.
I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.mALX1 wrote: It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.
Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.
Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.
I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.
Just my two cents.
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AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.
phantompally76 wrote: I don't view it so much as hypocrisy, but rather that while you were decrying Valve's actions publicly with one hand, you had come to an understanding with them in the other to receive revenue from them, and failed to disclose that information to your own already apprehensive and outraged community of revenue generators.
Actually, having read that sentence back a few times to myself....that bloody well IS hypocrisy.
At any rate, it's your website, and it's not my place to tell you or anyone else how to conduct your affairs.
All I know is that since this bombshell dropped yesterday, I haven't downloaded any mods or logged into Skyrim at all, and I have no inclination to do so at the moment. I hope that wears off, but right now I feel like abandoning the game and the mods entirely.
I liked modding a lot better when it was a hobby rather than a business.Dark0ne wrote:The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.
Obviously I had no idea what sort of money I'd be getting from it. If it was a small amount, it could go towards a server kitty. If it was a large amount, I dreamed of hiring on more programmers for NMM. Irrespective, every little helps, and I didn't want to turn down what was, and still is, a kind gesture both from Valve and the mod authors who choose the Nexus as a service provider just because some people misguidedly might think I was being two faced.
I went in to it from the get go that this was a donation to supporting the Nexus, and this in no way endebted me to supporting or advocating the use of Steam Workshop. I've been offered a hell of a lot more money over the years than what this could even potentially bring in if it took off massively, and I haven't done it yet. So for people to doubt my intentions now. Meh. Don't know me at all. Or at least, people don't read the many blog posts I've written about this very topic in the past.Arthmoor wrote: @Dark0ne:
I'd have set Nexus as a service provider for the one mod I have in the pay system now but I had a question about it that Valve didn't get around to answering until after the listing was approved. Authors can't change the payment distributions AT ALL once the listing is approved for sale. -
In response to post #24608469. #24608589 is also a reply to the same post.asset stealing was always an issue, but people hardly care since there weren't any money involved imo.hangman04 wrote:CiderMuffin wrote: If it was 75% then Bethesda and valve wouldn't make much making the practice a pretty terrible idea (though it's already a very terrible idea)
Now if it was something like 33% split between Valve, Bethesda and the Mod maker that way everyone earns a fair share then that would've been better but the idea is still terrible as evidence with Chesko using assets they didn't get permission to sell.
"If it was 75% then Bethesda and valve wouldn't make much making the practice a pretty terrible idea (though it's already a very terrible idea)"
well maybe but you are forgetting they don't get anything from modding atm and also forgetting that this isn't only about Skyrim... the framework will be implemented to the other games that support modding, and even though the but-hurt and quit-rage that we see around, this system will get traction, it's just a matter before people get used to the idea. Also it is possible that small studios will negotiate those %, given to meet some dlc quality standards and some beth peer review. i am sure this will open a new set of opportunities....
why did u think that darkzone added donation systems? imo, so that nexus won't loose modders who would expect to make a buck, as the donation system really works (same system a lot of software companies use, and also very common on google play). this move from valve kinda hurt nexus anyway, since there will be modders ( and probably good ones) who will condition($) the use of their modes, and you won't find them here. You may hate them but if the content they provide worth the cents one may as well pay for it.... -
This is an interesting turn on modding. Well my 1st problem with what they implemented is the way revenues are split between creator, distributor and software provider. I mean 25% is just old fashion communism :)). On the other hand a 75% for the mod author would have been more promising, imo.
There is also one aspect that i didn't see being pointed out here, the fact that it is possible that the modding community will be enriched with "mercenaries", meaning professional people / or teams with industry level skills that will provide top quality content given that they can get money from this (although a 25% ain't that promising....). Don't get me wrong we have a lot of pro modders but it feels like they are 1 in every 100s or smth like. i won't mind more quality content even if i would have to pay for it. On the other had, we might get some unlawful competition even, from former or current beth employees to have access to original development tools, (maybe an advanced version of CK, maybe havoc animation software etc) and for a buck might be willing to share some things that it would be impossible for other modders due to the lack of logistical resources....
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In response to post #16162200. #16162375, #16162510, #16215550, #16224790 are all replies on the same post.@whodat1
I agree with him, as I am an old user (since the morrowind era), and i found myself having to download huge amounts of mods in a short period of time, either after i had bought the game/expansions or after i had a clean reinstall of the game, or after a prolonged break from tes, which resulted in having all my mods outdated.
So, yes, Dark0ne is fairly accurate with the behavior of a new user, or the behavior of user who starts from scratch. -
Simple question: new action values or you changed the animation for an existing weapon class? Depending on your answer it will be cheering or meh....
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have you tried pressing it and see what happens ? :))
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In response to post #10252415. #10252846, #10253003, #10253436, #10253494, #10253733, #10254612, #10254935, #10255184, #10255502, #10255579, #10255972, #10257158, #10258026, #10259323 are all replies on the same post.This type of policing sux a bit, but most posts are questions about how to use a mod or appraisal to the author, a bit of bug feedback, and only a few of the users have "specialized" in criticizing ( constructive or flaming). Only the last category has to be careful from now on. Unless mod owner starts acting crazy ^^ !
Blocking downloads is kinda useless imo, and can be bypassed, i think. Although is pretty rare to get into an argument with the mod owner, but still wanting to use his mod, but circumstances still arise. -
The only aspect that steam has over nexus/tes alliance is that if you don't have an original game copy you can't download content from there.
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if Belethor is gone, there used to be a known issues where he is actually invisible and he has also been known to just die for whatever reason - boredom probably.
If you would like the new and improved clone of Belethor, try this
Player.placeatme 0001A672 <--- that should be Belethor's RefID number. If you find at some point you have 2 Belethors, delete the one that starts with FFF in the console
I hope this helps :)
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(re)Create him near his store so he doesn't get killed (again) walking back to it from wherever you summon his new-ness from.
Does't help that much cause i did that in the first place. But it doesn't have the dialog for barter. That is my problem...
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I have a the same problem. Some vampires killed him. Had to to resurrect him, even used console enable disable to reset his AI but he still doesn't barter with me. I read in some posts that i have to find his damn urn/coffin in the city's catacombs but no one told what to do there.
Is there another way to activate his sell function using some console tricks?
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I have a the same problem. Some vampires killed him. Had to to resurrect him, even used console enable disable to reset his AI but he still doesn't barter with me. I read in some posts that i have to find his damn urn/coffin in the city's catacombs but no one told what to do there.
Is there another way to activate his sell function without using that mode ?
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same problem here:
i suspect: The skeleton of female models by Ning
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Hey guys,
Do i still need to make those changes or just having the texture pack on top off all mods is enough?
Also the skyrim.ini has no [ARCHIVE] tag, and i only found in Skyrim_default.ini with the required lines.
Also this change does it affect how these fix mods work ?
1 HD Textures DLC Fix http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/8236
2 HighResTexturePack DLC Tweaks http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/14719
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the mode was good. and alex had nice ideas and he was a good coder, but he wasn't an optimizer. he needed a team, some1 to do the installer for the noobs and haters, and some1 else to optimize his code, to limit the interaction with other mods and to translate it at least in english. Anyway i think it's very nice of him that he last it so long since he didn't enjoy at all doing the petty work (translating and optimizing). He did that for the community... at least that should be appreciated.
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basically we want to play the game, not to run naked mile :D
On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net
in Site Updates
Posted
some may say that it was a different thing since it involved money, but now it may not be about money (YET!) but it is about pride! and sometimes pride can be more powerful than money....
the bad thing is that beth by their non action actually endorsed this s#*! on their platform.