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greggorypeccary

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    script fragment help

    in Creation Kit and Modders

    Posted · Edited by greggorypeccary

    I scripted events for my Fonv mod no problem. It was not hard at all.

    Now I.m trying to script an event for Fo4 and can't seem to accomplish the simplest thing.

     

    All I want to do is have the player use a terminal that will upon it's use teleport the player to another cell. Without an active quest.

    I would also like to remove the players inventory and deny companions from the teleport.

     

    At this point I can't even get the terminal to compile the fragment to teleport just the player. (that was very easy in Fonv.)

    I never modded skyrim which is where the changes happened I guess. So I'm a complete noob now.

     

    Is there a tutorial or someplace to get the answers without frustrating anyone that tries to help me with my denseness?

     

     

    I created a terminal and a marker where I want to go. I went into fragments in the terminal and properties where I found my marker.

    Went back to fragments and wrote;

     

    game.getplayer().moveto(SiaXMarkerHeading01)

     

    But I get the message that the script was not compiled.

     

     

    It should be so easy but I just don't get it.

     

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

     

    Thank you.

    G

     

    Through sheer pig headed determination I have progressed to the point where it fails for a different reason.

     

    Here is my simple script in the terminal fragment box.

     

    game.getplayer().moveto(SiaXMarkerHeading01)

     

     

    Here is my failure message.

     

    Papyrus Compiler Version 2.8.0.4 for Fallout 4
    Copyright © ZeniMax Media. All rights reserved.
    Starting 1 compile threads for 1 files...
    Compiling "Fragments:Terminals:TERM_SIASamterm_0713701B_1"...
    C:\Users\Maroney\AppData\Local\Temp\PapyrusTemp\Fragments\Terminals\TERM_SIASamterm_0713701B_1.psc(7,24): type mismatch on parameter 1 - cannot pass a static to a objectreference
    No output generated for Fragments:Terminals:TERM_SIASamterm_0713701B_1, compilation failed.
    Batch compile of 1 files finished. 0 succeeded, 1 failed.
    Failed on Fragments:Terminals:TERM_SIASamterm_0713701B_1
    It's the player not a static that I'm trying to teleport so I'm still lost.
    Still hoping for guidance.
    G

    Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

    in Site Updates

    Posted · Edited by greggorypeccary

    In response to post #25016629.


    bloodstainer wrote: I would like to see if this whole deal opened people's eyes and lead to any extensive increase in modders receiving donations? I know it certainly made me more inclined to pay modders, I recently subscribed to Nexus and even if I hadn't played Skyrim for a very long time before this, I'm glad that I'm getting back into playing more of Skyrims with new amazing mods and if my donations can help these mods keep coming I hope that this might serve as an incentive for people to support modders and not just keep downloading and not giving a single f*#@ about actually helping with feedback/rating/commenting.


    my mod has been out for about 1.5 years. I have had over 6000 people dl it. I have about 600 endorsements. I did not receive any donations until this started. I have since received one donation. After pay pal took their cut I got 66 cents. If that helps answer your question.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24829274. #24829504, #24829949, #24830164 are all replies on the same post.


    acidzebra wrote:

     

    Exactly. I think most of the people that signed the petition against this entire idea were not against the idea of modders being rewarded for their work, but rather the way Valve and Bethesda implemented the whole thing. And when I say implemented, I mean hammered home.

    The 30% cut Valve got out of it is default, I mean, Valve gets 30% of -everything- that sells on Steam, so this would be no exception in that respect. The other 70% however, was up to the developer to decide, and I think Bethesda was being extremely greedy taking 45% of it for themselves, just for having made the game. Especially knowing how much they've made from selling Skyrim on various platforms already, and the fact that even if mods are made through their toolkit, using their assets and resources, it is still something created by the person that creates it, not Bethesda, and therefor the creator should be rewarded the most for their originality, persistence and honest hard work.

    If anything, -that- is what bothered me the most about this entire ordeal. It was never fair, for anyone, even the modders. I guess that's why only -fifteen- of the modders now so verbally (or otherwise) assaulted signed up for it to begin with? :smile:

     

     

    The "community" people like to go on about consists of three basic groups: content creators, contributors (those who do not mod directly but help out in other ways or in general just interact with the rest of the community in a constructive way), and lastly, the content consumers. Some of the most vehement anti-pay posters don't care about the good fight, they don't care about community, they don't care about content creators, they don't care about profit cuts, they just care about a download site where they can quickly grab whatever they want for free and bolt.

     

    I've read their comments on this stuff and looked at their profiles; for the most part they could be carbon copies. Zero/very few posts (little interaction with other members), zero mods, a handful of endorsements at most. In many other communities these people are known as leeches. They are the bulk of the nexus visitors. These were the bulk of the people who were so incredibly up in arms. Note: bulk, not all.

     

    Not because "omg the creators get so little from Valve". Do you think people like that care about whether others get a deal that may or may not be unfair considering standard industry practices? It's a nice thought but it's BS, especially when I've read so many comments to mod authors "we won't miss you, for you ten others", "mods have always been free and should always be free". Coming from people who haven't contributed a damn thing, who in general are too lazy to even click a button to say they liked it or leave a comment.

     

    "Lereddit" is a perfect example. Just another leech.

    CaladanAnduril wrote: 1000 + Bravo

    Unfortunate people like you are in minority, GOD forgive if you post such comment as a modder, you will be instantly accused to be "spoiled brat, immature, selfish and money grabber".

    Sadly, this "bulk" have done more damage than you could imagine... but the results will show up in the near future.
    lereddit wrote: Well, actually the quality of modding is my biggest concern.
    It has been great so far, now you want to sell out on a platform with abusive business practise, fine.

    If you wanna go and be a cash grabber, make some shitty swords for DOTA2 and sell them for a buck each.

    The paid mods have all been terrible in quality so far (little hint: because I bought some of them, what a leech I am, right?)

    Funny that you crybabies start coming out of the woodwork once you don't get your way.

    Oh, and I don't post here often because there are other TES communities that I frequent. The nexus is not the only place to discuss mods on (and I have endorsed more than jus a handful mods, get your facts straight)
    blackasm wrote: no doubt they got to me for a while, and the damage I can say was no doubt done. I think of the modders that didn't quit altogether; they are all really considering how much is their time worth right now, and I can say having gone through that experience personally, before all of this hoopla, that question leads you to ultimately give up modding or relegate it to the back burner. It is just a sad fact of life and hobbies. To me the real loss was the potential of seeing great modders returning with bolder content as well as people like me who have the talent but not the time to add some cool things and fulfill some long asked requests (better faction quest rewards, thane rewards) and of course the artists in general are a real loser here, because this could have easily set a new precedence that would allow for artists to engage in a new free market. I just think of all those starving kids on deviantart lol. Either way the Leechers won this day, not the authors, not the contributers and never the artists.


    The problem is the Nexus makes most of their money off these "Leeches" downloading free mods that other people make. There are more leeches than it seems. I'm sure they're not stupid and the Nexus realize how close the bullet they just dodged came to their wallet. They'll try to figure a way to get the community to cough up some cash. I'd be amazed if they were to share some of the profit they already get.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827644, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954, #24828134 are all replies on the same post.


    CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

    " you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

    " you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

    " unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

    " I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

    "Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

    " I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

    This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
    A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
    All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
    You... the "community, made it possible.

    And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
    Do you REALLY thing that?

    Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
    I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

    I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

    So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
    Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
    And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

    Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
    It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
    Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

    You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
    Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
    And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
    YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

    Sad and shameful
    macintroll wrote: +1000
    quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
    FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
    FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
    GET UNREAL
    Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
    "The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."
    sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

    My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

    Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

    Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

    Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.
    retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

    I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

    It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

    Thank you for your honesty.

    Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

    Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.
    CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

    At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
    This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
    And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
    What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

    @ macintroll

    Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
    The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
    So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
    After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

    EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.
    retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

    I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.
    rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.
    CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

    I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
    I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
    It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

    @ retnav98

    ( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you
    sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

    What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

    Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
    @rickerhk
    I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.
    Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

    That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

    @ Xavathos

    Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.
    Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

    However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

    I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

    We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

    Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

    I'm sure there are many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Any one else here also into the whole synthwave retro movement?


    sunshinenbrick
    I don't think anything That comes from my new project will be on the Nexus. That is on purpose.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted · Edited by greggorypeccary

    In response to post #24825259. #24825439, #24825784, #24826229, #24826374, #24826514, #24826589, #24826684, #24826709, #24826859, #24826869, #24827839, #24827869, #24827954 are all replies on the same post.


    CaladanAnduril wrote: Several quotes

    " you f*#@ing cancerous asshole, you greedy piece of s#*! is the beginning of the end for the modding community. hope you find death. unendorsed"

    " you are no better than EA, get lost, leave the nexus! "

    " unendorsed, was always having problems running this mod with others I liked, so kept installing/uninstalling, but I really appreciated what this mod was doing and the work you put into it"

    " I found v5.0 on media fire, enjoy being spat on by the community and being black walled from modding. Also good lucking seeing any profit when there are who groups (lots of them) dedicated to leaking your mods. Here is the current list of sellouts [...] feel free to add your name as well to list of people who will never see a dime of money, last i checked greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. soo ummmm tell the devil i said hi when you meet him "

    "Before you download this, please note this person was trying to sell it before the paid mods where removed. In other words sellout"

    " I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC"

    This are just SOME random selection of "community" comments toward the mod authors who provided for FREE so many years mods, good or bad, small or huge.
    A terrifying wave of the most disgusting and visceral hate, a wave of mud who covered FOR EVER the relation between mod authors and the community.
    All of you who have splattered your hate and arrogance and hypocrisy all over the Internet but especially here on Nexus... the days of free modding are over.
    You... the "community, made it possible.

    And all this rage for nothing... you ever occurred in your minds clouded by "rights " and " morale"... that the move of Valve/Bethesda is not purely accidental?... that it was not a decision taken on the lunch brake " Hey John, lets make a buck from mods, what you say"... " Mmmm..'key Pete, let's throw the announce..."
    Do you REALLY thing that?

    Almost at the same time when Valve/Bethesda make their announcement, another big company make an extraordinary movement, giving to people, for FREE, the last version of their GAME ENGINE.
    I repeat for those who read slow... THE LAST VERSION OF A GAME ENGINE FOR FREE !!!

    I'm referring here to Epic Games... for those who lived deep beneath the earth in the last 20 years, Epic is one of the biggest game engine and games developer, Unreal 4 being one of the most powerful and versatile game engine.

    So what they got... more games developers that they could EVER afford to pay!!!
    Because they intent to promote also the games developed by the... SURPRISE!!! ... the MODDERS.
    And everyone will be satisfied, the developers by releasing they creations and making money, the company by sustaining the enthusiasts AND gaining profits and finally the consumers, for having a quality certified game.

    Those 2 events was to close in time ... making me to presume that Valve/Bethesda was trying to compete with Epic and their unprecedented and extraordinary movement in game industry.
    It make me laugh those who claimed "WE Win...Huraaa"
    Sadly... the answer is no, you have not won, THEY make a step back to regroup and chose a better strategy to enlist the modders... because THAT'S the stake, who will succeed to attract more creativity and enthusiasm.

    You ... the "community " as a whole failed... failed to understand what is happening, failed to support and maintain the free modding.
    Now the magic word is "donations"... bull****, I dare to prove anyone how many donations make from yesterday.
    And one more thing... Skyrim is not the ONLY game who was modded, before that were many more others, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, FNV and that time the same "community "was acting in the same way as today.
    YOU... the "community" was only able to grab what you needed and leave as quick as possible because, after all, that's Nexus, a download hub, that's all, just a download hub.

    Sad and shameful
    macintroll wrote: +1000
    quote "Unreal Engine is now FREE
    FREE for game development. FREE for Virtual Reality.
    FREE for education. FREE for architecture. FREE for film.
    GET UNREAL
    Pay a 5% royalty on games and applications you release. We succeed when you succeed."
    "The 5% royalty starts after the first $3,000 of revenue per product per quarter. Pay no royalty for film projects, contracting and consulting projects such as architecture, simulation and visualization."
    sunshinenbrick wrote: I think its a bit harsh to paint everyone in the community with the same brush, just as it is bad for a select group of user (among the 9,000,000 on the Nexus) to be carrying the point of view for everyone.

    My guess is that people who said some of these awful things (and nasty things were said from BOTH sides) were perhaps newish to the community, one that has been building in some shape or form for at least 15 years.

    Many of the older and wiser folk of course saw this coming, however I believe it was the lack of transparency and communication from above that made many react. Say the governement decided overnight (as this fiasco felt like for some) that everyone should use bikes and then sent balifs round to everyones house to tow away the cars. Yes it may be for "the greater good" or "a sensible option" from some points of view but one cannot expect that people just fall into line without question or the fact that we should fight for our individual voice. Because sometimes those on high do not know best.

    Perhaps some users and authors who said selfish or unconsidered things are just speaking from an isolated point of view and not seeing the bigger picture. I for one do not completely reject the idea of paid mods BUT the way it was implemented and the lack of rights and protection for both modders and users was a REAL concern and worry for people who are not just looking at the immediate gains or issues but the long term potential and that there were elements to this scheme as it was set out could actually be detrimental to the publishers themselves.

    Customers are reliant on companies, companies are reliant on customers and both should have an equal say in proceedings if there is to be found any mutual respect and responsibilty.
    retnav98 wrote: Speaking as one who HAS been an UNGRATEFUL TWAT, I am sorry, I sincerely am sorry.

    I must also admit that I have more than 1 account. I could easily slither away into that one and no one's the wiser. I could go on with my other identity and FAN the FLAMES..create irreparable damage..IF that were my agenda...I could facilitate someone else's agenda by creating the sense that my views and feelings were representative of the community at large. I could get the entire 'APPLE CART" upturned so that the CORP interests seemed to be the more reasoned and honest.

    It amazes me that so many GAMERS have yet to consider that they got GAMED.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: @ retnav98

    Thank you for your honesty.

    Wouldn't surprise me if there were staff from both companies floating around the forums "undercover".

    Part of the healing process for all this will involve some understanding and forgiveness.
    CaladanAnduril wrote: @ sunshinenbrick

    At that's was just an insignificant example of what was said about the modders and this subject.
    This kind of decision ( Valve/Bethesda) is taken always after some market research and surveys.
    And making that announcement suggest that the results where promising.
    What they don't expected for sure was the tidal wave of hate and rage, towards modders and the companies... but you could bet that they will be back ( Valve/Bethesda) and when this will be happening, they will have a better strategy.

    @ macintroll

    Damn right mate... also if you are so kind to google after Dying Light game... and what they released this days?...:)... it's interestin how initial they denied modding for that game, threatening even with law, now they made an 180 degree turn, interesting ?!
    The modding community is a golden mine and more companies realise that.
    So far Epic had the most fair arrangement for all sides, I know for sure at least 150 people who are working around the clock with Unreal 4... including me.
    After I have done modding for ANY Bethesda game.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: It still stands that Beth and Val remained very distant on the whole thing, just allowing modders to battle it out with each other. Just because there was pre-planning does not mean that it was well thought out.

    EDIT: Modders are not only people who have something to download.
    retnav98 wrote: I DON'T believe Modders are obligated to forgive me my selfish sense of entitlement on those occasions where my attitude was not tempered with the known and understood fact that this Modder put in immeasurable effort for NOTHING.

    I DO believe I am obligated to at least humbly and contritely offer my apologies and regret. I wasn't the one offering the quotes the OP listed...but in a lesser way...I DID.
    rickerhk wrote: Wow, I just happened to download the Unreal engine last night. After Project Brazil is done, that's is where you'll find me. Not making mods for haters.
    CaladanAnduril wrote: @ rickerhk

    I salute you my friend from the distant quest for heaven, from the Deep Blue , again, a true thank you.
    I will alway remember you, FreddyFarnsworth, Thaiauxin, Buff Hamster, Humannature66 not only as a terrible moders ( in the good way :) ) and tech savvy, but more important as good people, with good hearts and good will.
    It was a pleasure and privilege to meet and work with you.

    @ retnav98

    ( Gracious bowing) It take courage to make this kind of statement and you know what... for me personally is more valuable than 10000 "donations"... Bless you
    sunshinenbrick wrote: retnav98

    What candour! I think there are modders who appreciate that and are willing to view this more broadly than others might do.

    Many modders get much more than financial interest out of modding. I myself do a lot of modding but not for finacial gain, I do it because I love it (ok sometimes its a challenging pain in the ass) and because it allows me to get the true value out my games. Thrown into the mix I now know a little about making textures, 3d models and scripting, something I can use in many different areas of computer and design industries.
    Xavathos wrote: Woops, double post.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: @ greggorypeccary

    That's the spirit! Like I have said before Nexus supports any game that can be modded now. Explore, evolve, create. That is the magic of modding. It's a cultural thing, not just a market strategy.

    @ Xavathos

    Very wise words. I have met so many thoughtful people through this, maybe... just maybe... it was a *good* thing. I stand corrected, maybe it was somewhat well thought out, even if a gamble.
    Xavathos wrote: I completely understand the point of view of mod authors, and I'm shocked to read these quotes, even if it was glaringly obvious how this would inevitably unfold.

    However, the reaction of some modders has been overly extreme as well. Taking things like the quotes above personally and to heart is a big mistake. Especially if the consequence of that is taking your mods down and quitting the modding scene, as I've seen a few people do already.

    I know it is a struggle for respect, appreciation, or even simply acknowledgement of the fact that hey, all these mods are here because modders brought them to you, nothing more. There is no entitlement to any of it, for anyone other than the authors themselves. But even then, I think it wrong to fan the flames with more hate when you're not being respected, more disappointments when you're not being appreciated.

    We should let it be what it is, even if it's been an ugly week, and learn from our mistakes. There will always be people that make your blood boil with their attitude, as a professional, you need to be able to remain composed, and focus on what you set out to do in the first place, which for most of the modders is their mods.

    Don't dwell on the outspoken minority that disappoint you with their disrespect and bad attitude (to put it lightly) and instead focus on the majority of people who really do appreciate your work and greatly enjoy it every day. Let this horrible event be a good thing, and use the attention this subject is getting right now to let every reader know how you feel, in a constructive way, so people know what YOU expect as modders.

    I'm sure there are many people, like myself, who have absolutely no destructive intentions, are willing to put in more effort to make modders feel more appreciated if they feel it has been insufficient. Give it a shot.


    I personally have been using the Cryengine for 6 months>
    @rickerhk
    I don't know if you remember me but we conversed a few times. I credited you and Afterschool special as an inspiration for my mod. Hell I even mention Paul Edgecomb several times in my mod. My point being if you want to check out Novac Public Library And think we could collaborate I am open to it.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754, #24806814, #24806854, #24807069, #24807204, #24807289, #24807309, #24807344, #24807574, #24807704, #24807719, #24807814, #24807909, #24808129, #24808364, #24808374, #24808739, #24808754, #24809559, #24809844, #24809854, #24809864, #24810014, #24810319, #24810439, #24810499, #24810934, #24810994 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but money is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do. I agree that there needs to be a higher mandate of cohesion, however a top-down approach can only do so much.

    If you have not already have a read of the posts in the following Nexus forum:

    http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

    While this only scratches the surface it can hopefully start a communal consensus on what role we all play in this giant machine.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm not sure Nexus is making a profit. It was my understanding that Dark0ne runs this site at a loss. A labor of love.

    Capitalism is the best economic system we've discovered thus far, but it has its flaws. One of those flaws is there is always a "race to the bottom"--hamburger patties get smaller, the toaster burns out faster, and just the general overall quality of everything slowly goes down over time. And all in the name of maximizing profits. There is no reason to believe this paradigm wouldn't happen with game mods.

    Take a great mod like Falskaar for example. The author put a ton of time and energy into this expansion, and churned out a mod that, in my opinion, is heads above anything Bethesda has tried to peddle to us. Now what if he had been contracted by Bethesda to make it? All of a sudden there would be a deadline by which they expect it to be ready. They want it now now now because time is money, and the author wouldn't be able to take his time to put in all the details he otherwise would have. There might even be bugs he didn't have time to fix, or other shortcuts he had to take to make sure Bethesda had their product on time (and in corporate-America it ceases to be "art", and becomes a nameless PRODUCT--a widget on an assembly line whose sole purpose is to increase profit). I believe this is what happened to Skyrim. The programmers were rushed, and released a bug-filled, and partially incomplete product. In fact I think they just quickly ported it from the console version.

    Not to mention that the number of mods required to make Skyrim enjoyable (say at $1.99 each) is out of the budget for most gamers. I know I have over 100 mods myself. This means that save for a few exceptional mods, most mod authors won't be making very much because the gamers simply cannot afford it. There will be all these mods on some paysite that never (or only rarely) get downloaded, and eventually the mod authors will stop writing mods because unless they are churning out the next Falsksaar, it just isn't worth their time. This will most likely kill the modding community because by then Bethesda will probably have taken steps to close down sites like the Nexus because they will want to maintain their monopoly.
    macintroll wrote: Quote Sunshinenbrick "This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do."

    Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part.
    ChizFoShiz wrote: While you're right about the nexus, you're way off base about falskaar given that it was made as Alexander's "application" for employment from Bethesda, while I'm sure Alexander loves to make content and all and I wouldn't dream of making assumptions of what his stance would be here, his mod had the specific goal of gainful employment in mind.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Whether he put Falskaar on his resume or not is irrelevant. He worked on it for free, and gave it to the community for free, and he had no idea whether it would get him a job for sure or not.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Nexus is not allowed to make direct profit from mods, as I gather from the legal premise Bethesda has put down in its EULA (mods must be free). By paying people through revenue they would have to include taxes and therefore be bordering on being classified as employees and would in many ways become competition to Bethesda. Youtube own the content uploaded, Nexus does not it is still technically Bethesda's property.

    Additionally I think Nexus would rather avoid the headache of having to decide who is able to enter such a scheme and who is not. Especially as the creation of a mod is rarely the work of a single individual.

    The crunch is Bethesda are very flexible on this issue because they make A LOT of money out of it, steer the money in other directions and they will quickly bare their teeth I can assure you.
    macintroll wrote: @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.
    The money is given ONLY because of popularity of the youtubber's page and the number of ads clicked.
    2) Youtube is not the proprietary of your videos.
    3) For multi-modders mod, i think it's there own work to share retribution % to the different persons who have work together, not nexus not any one else.
    Moderation has to occur for sure, but they show by the past that they can do this very well (banning bad boys & girls)
    4) Well yes bethesda can do what they want with their game, and also can stop the nexus tomorrow if they want.
    freedom613 wrote: @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Again, Sunshine is right. The Youtube thing people keep bringing up is also a false analogy, because intellectual property laws make a distinction between profiting off of someone's IP directly, or from the incidental use of that IP.

    With Youtube, Bethesda's IP is not being violated. You don't get to play Skyrim for free, nor do you benefit from anything for free that would normally defer to Bethesda for some sort of profit. You are just watching someone ELSE play Skyrim--and that person (presumably) bought Skyrim and has a legal right to not only play it, but to film themselves playing it, and then they can do whatever they want with the video of them playing Skyrim.

    When you design something with their creation kit, you are directly utilizing their IP from start to finish, and your mod requires Skyrim to play. Bethesda's EULA allows you to trade the mod with friends, put it on a website, or do a lot of things with it as long as you aren't trying to make a profit.
    greggorypeccary wrote: macintroll said
    @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.

    Yes but the Nexus takes all of the advertising money already so they would have to part with some and some subscription money too. If they are willing.
    Marstonn wrote: No, the youtube have "networks", these guys have deals with devs and are allowed to monetize on game videos, the youtuber must be part of a network (Machinima, Youtube, etc).

    Edit, example: MMoxreview the guy from Skyrim Mods Weekly is a part of Machinima, so that's why he can monetize.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I must admit to complete ignorance to how that works. I will check it out though.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: The money from advertising goes to Nexus first and they would have to distribute it. Yes you are right that Nexus could strike a deal with the ad companies that the revenue is split prior to this but that is very dodgy from Bethesda's point of view... and well Google own ad sense and licence uploaded videos so they can do what they want.

    Google do not own the video but they own youtube and therefor the right for your video to be uploaded to it.

    Modders have enough to do without having to write business plans and start calculating how to split revenue. If they are organised enough to be making that much money out of it then they will most likely get a call from Bethesda asking them if they would like a job.

    However if Bethesda could get them to become self employed (which is what the recent experiment would have entailed) then they would prefer to do that as they have little to no responsibility for them... but still make a load of money.
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745
    Well i should make videos instead of mods ^^

    To be more serious : you miss an important point :
    Bethesda allow site like nexus to gain $500.000 a year from ads, while being a platform for downloading free mods.. made with the creation kit and their assets. And the sole maker of some of the said mods would not be able to gain some buck from the same kind of earnings ???
    crazy.

    Again the mod is not SELL, the mod is free, the mod doesn't give a cent to the modder, only the ads give money. And that's absolutely legal, beacause i can already put ads on my own website showing my mods with no risks.

    @sunshinenbrick : sorry miss but you should learn how adsense/adwords works. and nor google, nor youtube own your videos they are plateform providers period.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'd like to know where you are getting this financial info about the Nexus. It was my understanding they consistently run at a loss. Running a popular website takes a lot of time, and one that uses a ton of bandwidth can be very expensive.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: If your video violates copyright they can take it down immediately without your consent. They own the licence for your video to be distributed on their network.

    One should not try compare the youtube model to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts.
    macintroll wrote: @Marstonn
    Anybody is able to monetize his video on Google.
    Being in a "network" (what does it really mean in your mind ?) is not necessary , but for sure better for the number of views.

    and concerning what can be "game press" well of course they are allowed, they are free advertiser for the games companies ^^ new games are send to them for reviews , even presents etc..

    What is not authorized is to diffuse a video with Copyright content (the video itself, music etc...)
    macintroll wrote: quote "You cannot compare the youtube setup to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts."

    Well so explain me why Nexus is allowed to make $500.000+ / year in ads earnings...
    then explain me why i can't make some $ the same way, thanks.

    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Some days ago Dark0ne said he was spending 500.000$ a year only for servers renting and additional costs. So i take this as a base.. but it could be far more in fact ^^
    As the only nexus earnings are Ads.. (and some memberships) .. it's easy to understand how much is gain from ads earnings.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I don't understand how you are extrapolating profit from what Dark0ne is saying he spends to keep the site running. It sounds to me like this is a huge money sink for him.
    greggorypeccary wrote: It isn't
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Ok if you think so, but what lead you to think this ? have you found some numbers ?
    A company (black tree gaming) own the nexus, and make money like any company, has operating costs like any other , at least the goal is to maintain an equilibrium. No one can work loosing money for long you know, and Nexus is growing "open to all games", it doesn't sound like a loosing company.
    So if you have at least $500.000 to spend each year to make your business active, you need to earn at minima as much money somewhere.
    And apart from nexus network what are the incomes ? none i'm aware of.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Please remember the money made by the Nexus is for the use of the Nexus, not for individual mods. This is why they are allowed to do it.

    In legal terms when one donates for a mod they are not paying for the mod they are actually donating to the modder themselves, this is why Bethesda turn a blind eye. It is advantageous to them and it is also somewhat on the fence legally on whether the donation was for the mod or just because you like to support what the modder does. It really is a setup that is based on good will a trust, both from Bethesda's point of view and Nexus and its users.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I have no evidence of anything. I was going on Dark0ne's word that he runs this site at a loss. I have no reason to believe otherwise, and I would be surprised if a site like this was making any significant amount of profit. He spends a lot of money on upkeep, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is making at least that from donations/ads. I have friends who made a ton of money off of Bitcoins, and are now engaging in labors of love that are also money sinks.

    Do you have some information the rest of us don't?
    macintroll wrote: quote : " Do you have some information the rest of us don't?"
    All key financial info on companies are publicly available (thus it's last year for most yet) and detailled info can be bought if you want.
    Google the company name you'll find more info. (not very difficult)

    I'm not here to accuse nexus of anything, just to point the fact that they are allowed to make money from ads, is it enough, is it too much ?, it's not the point of my discussion, honestly I don't care, the "service" is good here, i really appreciate what Dark0ne has made and how it helps the "community".

    But if they can do it, rightfully gaining money providing access to modders content ...why not also the modders who provide each part of the content of this site ?.
    I see it as a win-win solution : free mods for end users and modders rewarded with some $

    Again in this formula, it's not the mod which is giving money to the modder, it's the audience it generate like elsewhere, exactly what does the nexus to pay their bills.

    greggorypeccary wrote: The world is full of hugely profitable companies whose whose image is " We're your friend. We're here to help you" . And don't let the words Non Profit fool you either. My advise is that when they offer you the Kool-Aide tomorrow.....Don't drink it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: I suppose you could make money from ads if you allowed them inside the actual mod... I am not sure of the legality of that however, interesting thought.

    My idea behind this is you could put Coke billboards up in Fallout, for example, and gain revenue from that. Problem is even if this were legal, I'm not sure people would like it.

    I think Bethesda actually have to look at where they stand on individual modders making money from advertising their mods on the Nexus, or elsewhere for that matter. Either way it is not a decision the Nexus can make. It could work to Bethesda's advantage as they will be gaining free marketing. Only real issue is the type of mod, does it adhere to what Bethesda want to be associated with. Lord of the Rings mods would bring unwanted legal action, as too would many of the sex mods.
    DreamingGirl wrote: If you don't like Nexus 'making money' off your mods, you are free to set up your own site to host them on, get advertizement and see how much you actually earn from it :)
    greggorypeccary wrote: I know. I never said they can't make money. You are mis- paraphrazing
    macintroll wrote: quote : "I suppose you could make money from ads if you allowed them inside the actual mod... I am not sure of the legality of that however, interesting thought."
    Argh no please not that ! some brand have already much more ad they deserve in bethesda games (nuka cola ? ^^ )
    I'm just speaking of a "generic" web banner on the mod page, no more, no less.

    Do not expect to be rich with this, but you still can have some $ reward.
    DreamingGirl wrote: What I mean is, if you don't like it, DO something abut it instead of complaining about it, that will never get you anywhere. There are always other options! :)
    sunshinenbrick wrote: @ macintroll

    Ha! No, I don't like the idea myself either, just thinking aloud :)

    EDIT: I could cope with a banner. Beats some of the noisey video ADS you get, not that I see them when logged in.

    EDIT2: MODS?! I meant ADS... it's been a busy few days. Typo fixed now *blush*
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not complaining. I'm pushing for change.I thank you all for your opinions but I must be going. Twilight Zone is on.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Thanks for all you points too, important we know how each other feel. L8r


    I'm sorry but one thing sums up my point.

    Change must come because paid modding is coming and those who don't adapt will go by the wayside even the Nexus..
    That pretty much sums it up.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754, #24806814, #24806854, #24807069, #24807204, #24807289, #24807309, #24807344, #24807574, #24807704, #24807719, #24807814, #24807909, #24808129, #24808364, #24808374, #24808739, #24808754, #24809559, #24809844, #24809854, #24809864, #24810014, #24810319, #24810439, #24810499 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but money is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do. I agree that there needs to be a higher mandate of cohesion, however a top-down approach can only do so much.

    If you have not already have a read of the posts in the following Nexus forum:

    http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

    While this only scratches the surface it can hopefully start a communal consensus on what role we all play in this giant machine.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm not sure Nexus is making a profit. It was my understanding that Dark0ne runs this site at a loss. A labor of love.

    Capitalism is the best economic system we've discovered thus far, but it has its flaws. One of those flaws is there is always a "race to the bottom"--hamburger patties get smaller, the toaster burns out faster, and just the general overall quality of everything slowly goes down over time. And all in the name of maximizing profits. There is no reason to believe this paradigm wouldn't happen with game mods.

    Take a great mod like Falskaar for example. The author put a ton of time and energy into this expansion, and churned out a mod that, in my opinion, is heads above anything Bethesda has tried to peddle to us. Now what if he had been contracted by Bethesda to make it? All of a sudden there would be a deadline by which they expect it to be ready. They want it now now now because time is money, and the author wouldn't be able to take his time to put in all the details he otherwise would have. There might even be bugs he didn't have time to fix, or other shortcuts he had to take to make sure Bethesda had their product on time (and in corporate-America it ceases to be "art", and becomes a nameless PRODUCT--a widget on an assembly line whose sole purpose is to increase profit). I believe this is what happened to Skyrim. The programmers were rushed, and released a bug-filled, and partially incomplete product. In fact I think they just quickly ported it from the console version.

    Not to mention that the number of mods required to make Skyrim enjoyable (say at $1.99 each) is out of the budget for most gamers. I know I have over 100 mods myself. This means that save for a few exceptional mods, most mod authors won't be making very much because the gamers simply cannot afford it. There will be all these mods on some paysite that never (or only rarely) get downloaded, and eventually the mod authors will stop writing mods because unless they are churning out the next Falsksaar, it just isn't worth their time. This will most likely kill the modding community because by then Bethesda will probably have taken steps to close down sites like the Nexus because they will want to maintain their monopoly.
    macintroll wrote: Quote Sunshinenbrick "This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do."

    Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part.
    ChizFoShiz wrote: While you're right about the nexus, you're way off base about falskaar given that it was made as Alexander's "application" for employment from Bethesda, while I'm sure Alexander loves to make content and all and I wouldn't dream of making assumptions of what his stance would be here, his mod had the specific goal of gainful employment in mind.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Whether he put Falskaar on his resume or not is irrelevant. He worked on it for free, and gave it to the community for free, and he had no idea whether it would get him a job for sure or not.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Nexus is not allowed to make direct profit from mods, as I gather from the legal premise Bethesda has put down in its EULA (mods must be free). By paying people through revenue they would have to include taxes and therefore be bordering on being classified as employees and would in many ways become competition to Bethesda. Youtube own the content uploaded, Nexus does not it is still technically Bethesda's property.

    Additionally I think Nexus would rather avoid the headache of having to decide who is able to enter such a scheme and who is not. Especially as the creation of a mod is rarely the work of a single individual.

    The crunch is Bethesda are very flexible on this issue because they make A LOT of money out of it, steer the money in other directions and they will quickly bare their teeth I can assure you.
    macintroll wrote: @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.
    The money is given ONLY because of popularity of the youtubber's page and the number of ads clicked.
    2) Youtube is not the proprietary of your videos.
    3) For multi-modders mod, i think it's there own work to share retribution % to the different persons who have work together, not nexus not any one else.
    Moderation has to occur for sure, but they show by the past that they can do this very well (banning bad boys & girls)
    4) Well yes bethesda can do what they want with their game, and also can stop the nexus tomorrow if they want.
    freedom613 wrote: @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Again, Sunshine is right. The Youtube thing people keep bringing up is also a false analogy, because intellectual property laws make a distinction between profiting off of someone's IP directly, or from the incidental use of that IP.

    With Youtube, Bethesda's IP is not being violated. You don't get to play Skyrim for free, nor do you benefit from anything for free that would normally defer to Bethesda for some sort of profit. You are just watching someone ELSE play Skyrim--and that person (presumably) bought Skyrim and has a legal right to not only play it, but to film themselves playing it, and then they can do whatever they want with the video of them playing Skyrim.

    When you design something with their creation kit, you are directly utilizing their IP from start to finish, and your mod requires Skyrim to play. Bethesda's EULA allows you to trade the mod with friends, put it on a website, or do a lot of things with it as long as you aren't trying to make a profit.
    greggorypeccary wrote: macintroll said
    @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.

    Yes but the Nexus takes all of the advertising money already so they would have to part with some and some subscription money too. If they are willing.
    Marstonn wrote: No, the youtube have "networks", these guys have deals with devs and are allowed to monetize on game videos, the youtuber must be part of a network (Machinima, Youtube, etc).

    Edit, example: MMoxreview the guy from Skyrim Mods Weekly is a part of Machinima, so that's why he can monetize.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I must admit to complete ignorance to how that works. I will check it out though.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: The money from advertising goes to Nexus first and they would have to distribute it. Yes you are right that Nexus could strike a deal with the ad companies that the revenue is split prior to this but that is very dodgy from Bethesda's point of view... and well Google own ad sense and licence uploaded videos so they can do what they want.

    Google do not own the video but they own youtube and therefor the right for your video to be uploaded to it.

    Modders have enough to do without having to write business plans and start calculating how to split revenue. If they are organised enough to be making that much money out of it then they will most likely get a call from Bethesda asking them if they would like a job.

    However if Bethesda could get them to become self employed (which is what the recent experiment would have entailed) then they would prefer to do that as they have little to no responsibility for them... but still make a load of money.
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745
    Well i should make videos instead of mods ^^

    To be more serious : you miss an important point :
    Bethesda allow site like nexus to gain $500.000 a year from ads, while being a platform for downloading free mods.. made with the creation kit and their assets. And the sole maker of some of the said mods would not be able to gain some buck from the same kind of earnings ???
    crazy.

    Again the mod is not SELL, the mod is free, the mod doesn't give a cent to the modder, only the ads give money. And that's absolutely legal, beacause i can already put ads on my own website showing my mods with no risks.

    @sunshinenbrick : sorry miss but you should learn how adsense/adwords works. and nor google, nor youtube own your videos they are plateform providers period.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'd like to know where you are getting this financial info about the Nexus. It was my understanding they consistently run at a loss. Running a popular website takes a lot of time, and one that uses a ton of bandwidth can be very expensive.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: If your video violates copyright they can take it down immediately without your consent. They own the licence for your video to be distributed on their network.

    One should not try compare the youtube model to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts.
    macintroll wrote: @Marstonn
    Anybody is able to monetize his video on Google.
    Being in a "network" (what does it really mean in your mind ?) is not necessary , but for sure better for the number of views.

    and concerning what can be "game press" well of course they are allowed, they are free advertiser for the games companies ^^ new games are send to them for reviews , even presents etc..

    What is not authorized is to diffuse a video with Copyright content (the video itself, music etc...)
    macintroll wrote: quote "You cannot compare the youtube setup to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts."

    Well so explain me why Nexus is allowed to make $500.000+ / year in ads earnings...
    then explain me why i can't make some $ the same way, thanks.

    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Some days ago Dark0ne said he was spending 500.000$ a year only for servers renting and additional costs. So i take this as a base.. but it could be far more in fact ^^
    As the only nexus earnings are Ads.. (and some memberships) .. it's easy to understand how much is gain from ads earnings.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I don't understand how you are extrapolating profit from what Dark0ne is saying he spends to keep the site running. It sounds to me like this is a huge money sink for him.
    greggorypeccary wrote: It isn't
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Ok if you think so, but what lead you to think this ? have you found some numbers ?
    A company (black tree gaming) own the nexus, and make money like any company, has operating costs like any other , at least the goal is to maintain an equilibrium. No one can work loosing money for long you know, and Nexus is growing "open to all games", it doesn't sound like a loosing company.
    So if you have at least $500.000 to spend each year to make your business active, you need to earn at minima as much money somewhere.
    And apart from nexus network what are the incomes ? none i'm aware of.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Please remember the money made by the Nexus is for the use of the Nexus, not for individual mods. This is why they are allowed to do it.

    In legal terms when one donates for a mod they are not paying for the mod they are actually donating to the modder themselves, this is why Bethesda turn a blind eye. It is advantageous to them and it is also somewhat on the fence legally on whether the donation was for the mod or just because you like to support what the modder does. It really is a setup that is based on good will a trust, both from Bethesda's point of view and Nexus and its users.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I have no evidence of anything. I was going on Dark0ne's word that he runs this site at a loss. I have no reason to believe otherwise, and I would be surprised if a site like this was making any significant amount of profit. He spends a lot of money on upkeep, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is making at least that from donations/ads. I have friends who made a ton of money off of Bitcoins, and are now engaging in labors of love that are also money sinks.

    Do you have some information the rest of us don't?
    macintroll wrote: quote : " Do you have some information the rest of us don't?"
    All key financial info on companies are publicly available (thus it's last year for most yet) and detailled info can be bought if you want.
    Google the company name you'll find more info. (not very difficult)

    I'm not here to accuse nexus of anything, just to point the fact that they are allowed to make money from ads, is it enough, is it too much ?, it's not the point of my discussion, honestly I don't care, the "service" is good here, i really appreciate what Dark0ne has made and how it helps the "community".

    But if they can do it, rightfully gaining money providing access to modders content ...why not also the modders who provide each part of the content of this site ?.
    I see it as a win-win solution : free mods for end users and modders rewarded with some $

    Again in this formula, it's not the mod which is giving money to the modder, it's the audience it generate like elsewhere, exactly what does the nexus to pay their bills.

    greggorypeccary wrote: The world is full of hugely profitable companies whose whose image is " We're your friend. We're here to help you" . And don't let the words Non Profit fool you either. My advise is that when they offer you the Kool-Aide tomorrow.....Don't drink it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: I suppose you could make money from ads if you allowed them inside the actual mod... I am not sure of the legality of that however, interesting thought.

    My idea behind this is you could put Coke billboards up in Fallout, for example, and gain revenue from that. Problem is even if this were legal, I'm not sure people would like it.

    I think Bethesda actually have to look at where they stand on individual modders making money from advertising their mods on the Nexus, or elsewhere for that matter. Either way it is not a decision the Nexus can make. It could work to Bethesda's advantage as they will be gaining free marketing. Only real issue is the type of mod, does it adhere to what Bethesda want to be associated with. Lord of the Rings mods would bring unwanted legal action, as too would many of the sex mods.
    DreamingGirl wrote: If you don't like Nexus 'making money' off your mods, you are free to set up your own site to host them on, get advertizement and see how much you actually earn from it :)
    greggorypeccary wrote: I know. I never said they can't make money. You are mis- paraphrazing
    macintroll wrote: quote : "I suppose you could make money from ads if you allowed them inside the actual mod... I am not sure of the legality of that however, interesting thought."
    Argh no please not that ! some brand have already much more ad they deserve in bethesda games (nuka cola ? ^^ )
    I'm just speaking of a "generic" web banner on the mod page, no more, no less.

    Do not expect to be rich with this, but you still can have some $ reward.
    DreamingGirl wrote: What I mean is, if you don't like it, DO something abut it instead of complaining about it, that will never get you anywhere. There are always other options! :)
    sunshinenbrick wrote: @ macintroll

    Ha! No, I don't like the idea myself either, just thinking aloud :)

    EDIT: I could cope with a banner. Beats some of the noisey video mods you get, not that I see them when logged in.


    I'm not complaining. I'm pushing for change.I thank you all for your opinions but I must be going. Twilight Zone is on.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted · Edited by greggorypeccary

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754, #24806814, #24806854, #24807069, #24807204, #24807289, #24807309, #24807344, #24807574, #24807704, #24807719, #24807814, #24807909, #24808129, #24808364, #24808374, #24808739, #24808754, #24809559, #24809844, #24809854, #24809864 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do. I agree that there needs to be a higher mandate of cohesion, however a top-down approach can only do so much.

    If you have not already have a read of the posts in the following Nexus forum:

    http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

    While this only scratches the surface it can hopefully start a communal consensus on what role we all play in this giant machine.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm not sure Nexus is making a profit. It was my understanding that Dark0ne runs this site at a loss. A labor of love.

    Capitalism is the best economic system we've discovered thus far, but it has its flaws. One of those flaws is there is always a "race to the bottom"--hamburger patties get smaller, the toaster burns out faster, and just the general overall quality of everything slowly goes down over time. And all in the name of maximizing profits. There is no reason to believe this paradigm wouldn't happen with game mods.

    Take a great mod like Falskaar for example. The author put a ton of time and energy into this expansion, and churned out a mod that, in my opinion, is heads above anything Bethesda has tried to peddle to us. Now what if he had been contracted by Bethesda to make it? All of a sudden there would be a deadline by which they expect it to be ready. They want it now now now because time is money, and the author wouldn't be able to take his time to put in all the details he otherwise would have. There might even be bugs he didn't have time to fix, or other shortcuts he had to take to make sure Bethesda had their product on time (and in corporate-America it ceases to be "art", and becomes a nameless PRODUCT--a widget on an assembly line whose sole purpose is to increase profit). I believe this is what happened to Skyrim. The programmers were rushed, and released a bug-filled, and partially incomplete product. In fact I think they just quickly ported it from the console version.

    Not to mention that the number of mods required to make Skyrim enjoyable (say at $1.99 each) is out of the budget for most gamers. I know I have over 100 mods myself. This means that save for a few exceptional mods, most mod authors won't be making very much because the gamers simply cannot afford it. There will be all these mods on some paysite that never (or only rarely) get downloaded, and eventually the mod authors will stop writing mods because unless they are churning out the next Falsksaar, it just isn't worth their time. This will most likely kill the modding community because by then Bethesda will probably have taken steps to close down sites like the Nexus because they will want to maintain their monopoly.
    macintroll wrote: Quote Sunshinenbrick "This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do."

    Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part.
    ChizFoShiz wrote: While you're right about the nexus, you're way off base about falskaar given that it was made as Alexander's "application" for employment from Bethesda, while I'm sure Alexander loves to make content and all and I wouldn't dream of making assumptions of what his stance would be here, his mod had the specific goal of gainful employment in mind.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Whether he put Falskaar on his resume or not is irrelevant. He worked on it for free, and gave it to the community for free, and he had no idea whether it would get him a job for sure or not.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Nexus is not allowed to make direct profit from mods, as I gather from the legal premise Bethesda has put down in its EULA (mods must be free). By paying people through revenue they would have to include taxes and therefore be bordering on being classified as employees and would in many ways become competition to Bethesda. Youtube own the content uploaded, Nexus does not it is still technically Bethesda's property.

    Additionally I think Nexus would rather avoid the headache of having to decide who is able to enter such a scheme and who is not. Especially as the creation of a mod is rarely the work of a single individual.

    The crunch is Bethesda are very flexible on this issue because they make A LOT of money out of it, steer the money in other directions and they will quickly bare their teeth I can assure you.
    macintroll wrote: @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.
    The money is given ONLY because of popularity of the youtubber's page and the number of ads clicked.
    2) Youtube is not the proprietary of your videos.
    3) For multi-modders mod, i think it's there own work to share retribution % to the different persons who have work together, not nexus not any one else.
    Moderation has to occur for sure, but they show by the past that they can do this very well (banning bad boys & girls)
    4) Well yes bethesda can do what they want with their game, and also can stop the nexus tomorrow if they want.
    freedom613 wrote: @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Again, Sunshine is right. The Youtube thing people keep bringing up is also a false analogy, because intellectual property laws make a distinction between profiting off of someone's IP directly, or from the incidental use of that IP.

    With Youtube, Bethesda's IP is not being violated. You don't get to play Skyrim for free, nor do you benefit from anything for free that would normally defer to Bethesda for some sort of profit. You are just watching someone ELSE play Skyrim--and that person (presumably) bought Skyrim and has a legal right to not only play it, but to film themselves playing it, and then they can do whatever they want with the video of them playing Skyrim.

    When you design something with their creation kit, you are directly utilizing their IP from start to finish, and your mod requires Skyrim to play. Bethesda's EULA allows you to trade the mod with friends, put it on a website, or do a lot of things with it as long as you aren't trying to make a profit.
    greggorypeccary wrote: macintroll said
    @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.

    Yes but the Nexus takes all of the advertising money already so they would have to part with some and some subscription money too. If they are willing.
    Marstonn wrote: No, the youtube have "networks", these guys have deals with devs and are allowed to monetize on game videos, the youtuber must be part of a network (Machinima, Youtube, etc).

    Edit, example: MMoxreview the guy from Skyrim Mods Weekly is a part of Machinima, so that's why he can monetize.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I must admit to complete ignorance to how that works. I will check it out though.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: The money from advertising goes to Nexus first and they would have to distribute it. Yes you are right that Nexus could strike a deal with the ad companies that the revenue is split prior to this but that is very dodgy from Bethesda's point of view... and well Google own ad sense and licence uploaded videos so they can do what they want.

    Google do not own the video but they own youtube and therefor the right for your video to be uploaded to it.

    Modders have enough to do without having to write business plans and start calculating how to split revenue. If they are organised enough to be making that much money out of it then they will most likely get a call from Bethesda asking them if they would like a job.

    However if Bethesda could get them to become self employed (which is what the recent experiment would have entailed) then they would prefer to do that as they have little to no responsibility for them... but still make a load of money.
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745
    Well i should make videos instead of mods ^^

    To be more serious : you miss an important point :
    Bethesda allow site like nexus to gain $500.000 a year from ads, while being a platform for downloading free mods.. made with the creation kit and their assets. And the sole maker of some of the said mods would not be able to gain some buck from the same kind of earnings ???
    crazy.

    Again the mod is not SELL, the mod is free, the mod doesn't give a cent to the modder, only the ads give money. And that's absolutely legal, beacause i can already put ads on my own website showing my mods with no risks.

    @sunshinenbrick : sorry miss but you should learn how adsense/adwords works. and nor google, nor youtube own your videos they are plateform providers period.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'd like to know where you are getting this financial info about the Nexus. It was my understanding they consistently run at a loss. Running a popular website takes a lot of time, and one that uses a ton of bandwidth can be very expensive.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: If your video violates copyright they can take it down immediately without your consent. They own the licence for your video to be distributed on their network.

    One should not try compare the youtube model to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts.
    macintroll wrote: @Marstonn
    Anybody is able to monetize his video on Google.
    Being in a "network" (what does it really mean in your mind ?) is not necessary , but for sure better for the number of views.

    and concerning what can be "game press" well of course they are allowed, they are free advertiser for the games companies ^^ new games are send to them for reviews , even presents etc..

    What is not authorized is to diffuse a video with Copyright content (the video itself, music etc...)
    macintroll wrote: quote "You cannot compare the youtube setup to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts."

    Well so explain me why Nexus is allowed to make $500.000+ / year in ads earnings...
    then explain me why i can't make some $ the same way, thanks.

    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Some days ago Dark0ne said he was spending 500.000$ a year only for servers renting and additional costs. So i take this as a base.. but it could be far more in fact ^^
    As the only nexus earnings are Ads.. (and some memberships) .. it's easy to understand how much is gain from ads earnings.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I don't understand how you are extrapolating profit from what Dark0ne is saying he spends to keep the site running. It sounds to me like this is a huge money sink for him.
    greggorypeccary wrote: It isn't
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Ok if you think so, but what lead you to think this ? have you found some numbers ?
    A company (black tree gaming) own the nexus, and make money like any company, has operating costs like any other , at least the goal is to maintain an equilibrium. No one can work loosing money for long you know, and Nexus is growing "open to all games", it doesn't sound like a loosing company.
    So if you have at least $500.000 to spend each year to make your business active, you need to earn at minima as much money somewhere.
    And apart from nexus network what are the incomes ? none i'm aware of.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Please remember the money made by the Nexus is for the use of the Nexus, not for individual mods. This is why they are allowed to do it.

    In legal terms when one donates for a mod they are not paying for the mod they are actually donating to the modder themselves, this is why Bethesda turn a blind eye. It is advantageous to them and it is also somewhat on the fence legally on whether the donation was for the mod or just because you like to support what the modder does. It really is a setup that is based on good will a trust, both from Bethesda's point of view and Nexus and its users.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I have no evidence of anything. I was going on Dark0ne's word that he runs this site at a loss. I have no reason to believe otherwise, and I would be surprised if a site like this was making any significant amount of profit. He spends a lot of money on upkeep, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is making at least that from donations/ads. I have friends who made a ton of money off of Bitcoins, and are now engaging in labors of love that are also money sinks.

    Do you have some information the rest of us don't?
    macintroll wrote: quote : " Do you have some information the rest of us don't?"
    All key financial info on companies are publicly available (thus it's last year for most yet) and detailled info can be bought if you want.
    Google the company name you'll find more info. (not very difficult)

    I'm not here to accuse nexus of anything, just to point the fact that they are allowed to make money from ads, is it enough, is it too much ?, it's not the point of my discussion, honestly I don't care, the "service" is good here, i really appreciate what Dark0ne has made and how it helps the "community".

    But if they can do it, rightfully gaining money providing access to modders content ...why not also the modders who provide each part of the content of this site ?.
    I see it as a win-win solution : free mods for end users and modders rewarded with some $

    Again in this formula, it's not the mod which is giving money to the modder, it's the audience it generate like elsewhere, exactly what does the nexus to pay their bills.

    greggorypeccary wrote: The world is full of hugely profitable companies whose whose image is " We're your friend. We're here to help you" . And don't let the words Non Profit fool you either. My advise is that when they offer you the Kool-Aide tomorrow.....Don't drink it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: I suppose you could make money from ads if you allowed them inside the actual mod... I am not sure of the legality of that however, interesting thought.

    My idea behind this is you could put Coke billboards up in Fallout, for example, and gain revenue from that. Problem is even if this were legal, I'm not sure people would like it.

    I think Bethesda actually have to look at where they stand on individual modders making money from advertising their mods on the Nexus, or elsewhere for that matter. Either way it is not a decision the Nexus can make. It could work to Bethesda's advantage as they will be gaining free marketing. Only real issue is the type of mod, does it adhere to what Bethesda want to be associated with. Lord of the Rings mods would bring unwanted legal action, as too would many of the sex mods.
    DreamingGirl wrote: If you don't like Nexus 'making money' off your mods, you are free to set up your own site to host them on, get advertizement and see how much you actually earn from it :)


    I know. I never said they can't make money. You are mis- paraphrazing

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754, #24806814, #24806854, #24807069, #24807204, #24807289, #24807309, #24807344, #24807574, #24807704, #24807719, #24807814, #24807909, #24808129, #24808364, #24808374, #24808739, #24808754, #24809559 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do. I agree that there needs to be a higher mandate of cohesion, however a top-down approach can only do so much.

    If you have not already have a read of the posts in the following Nexus forum:

    http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

    While this only scratches the surface it can hopefully start a communal consensus on what role we all play in this giant machine.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm not sure Nexus is making a profit. It was my understanding that Dark0ne runs this site at a loss. A labor of love.

    Capitalism is the best economic system we've discovered thus far, but it has its flaws. One of those flaws is there is always a "race to the bottom"--hamburger patties get smaller, the toaster burns out faster, and just the general overall quality of everything slowly goes down over time. And all in the name of maximizing profits. There is no reason to believe this paradigm wouldn't happen with game mods.

    Take a great mod like Falskaar for example. The author put a ton of time and energy into this expansion, and churned out a mod that, in my opinion, is heads above anything Bethesda has tried to peddle to us. Now what if he had been contracted by Bethesda to make it? All of a sudden there would be a deadline by which they expect it to be ready. They want it now now now because time is money, and the author wouldn't be able to take his time to put in all the details he otherwise would have. There might even be bugs he didn't have time to fix, or other shortcuts he had to take to make sure Bethesda had their product on time (and in corporate-America it ceases to be "art", and becomes a nameless PRODUCT--a widget on an assembly line whose sole purpose is to increase profit). I believe this is what happened to Skyrim. The programmers were rushed, and released a bug-filled, and partially incomplete product. In fact I think they just quickly ported it from the console version.

    Not to mention that the number of mods required to make Skyrim enjoyable (say at $1.99 each) is out of the budget for most gamers. I know I have over 100 mods myself. This means that save for a few exceptional mods, most mod authors won't be making very much because the gamers simply cannot afford it. There will be all these mods on some paysite that never (or only rarely) get downloaded, and eventually the mod authors will stop writing mods because unless they are churning out the next Falsksaar, it just isn't worth their time. This will most likely kill the modding community because by then Bethesda will probably have taken steps to close down sites like the Nexus because they will want to maintain their monopoly.
    macintroll wrote: Quote Sunshinenbrick "This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do."

    Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part.
    ChizFoShiz wrote: While you're right about the nexus, you're way off base about falskaar given that it was made as Alexander's "application" for employment from Bethesda, while I'm sure Alexander loves to make content and all and I wouldn't dream of making assumptions of what his stance would be here, his mod had the specific goal of gainful employment in mind.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Whether he put Falskaar on his resume or not is irrelevant. He worked on it for free, and gave it to the community for free, and he had no idea whether it would get him a job for sure or not.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Nexus is not allowed to make direct profit from mods, as I gather from the legal premise Bethesda has put down in its EULA (mods must be free). By paying people through revenue they would have to include taxes and therefore be bordering on being classified as employees and would in many ways become competition to Bethesda. Youtube own the content uploaded, Nexus does not it is still technically Bethesda's property.

    Additionally I think Nexus would rather avoid the headache of having to decide who is able to enter such a scheme and who is not. Especially as the creation of a mod is rarely the work of a single individual.

    The crunch is Bethesda are very flexible on this issue because they make A LOT of money out of it, steer the money in other directions and they will quickly bare their teeth I can assure you.
    macintroll wrote: @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.
    The money is given ONLY because of popularity of the youtubber's page and the number of ads clicked.
    2) Youtube is not the proprietary of your videos.
    3) For multi-modders mod, i think it's there own work to share retribution % to the different persons who have work together, not nexus not any one else.
    Moderation has to occur for sure, but they show by the past that they can do this very well (banning bad boys & girls)
    4) Well yes bethesda can do what they want with their game, and also can stop the nexus tomorrow if they want.
    freedom613 wrote: @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Again, Sunshine is right. The Youtube thing people keep bringing up is also a false analogy, because intellectual property laws make a distinction between profiting off of someone's IP directly, or from the incidental use of that IP.

    With Youtube, Bethesda's IP is not being violated. You don't get to play Skyrim for free, nor do you benefit from anything for free that would normally defer to Bethesda for some sort of profit. You are just watching someone ELSE play Skyrim--and that person (presumably) bought Skyrim and has a legal right to not only play it, but to film themselves playing it, and then they can do whatever they want with the video of them playing Skyrim.

    When you design something with their creation kit, you are directly utilizing their IP from start to finish, and your mod requires Skyrim to play. Bethesda's EULA allows you to trade the mod with friends, put it on a website, or do a lot of things with it as long as you aren't trying to make a profit.
    greggorypeccary wrote: macintroll said
    @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.

    Yes but the Nexus takes all of the advertising money already so they would have to part with some and some subscription money too. If they are willing.
    Marstonn wrote: No, the youtube have "networks", these guys have deals with devs and are allowed to monetize on game videos, the youtuber must be part of a network (Machinima, Youtube, etc).

    Edit, example: MMoxreview the guy from Skyrim Mods Weekly is a part of Machinima, so that's why he can monetize.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I must admit to complete ignorance to how that works. I will check it out though.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: The money from advertising goes to Nexus first and they would have to distribute it. Yes you are right that Nexus could strike a deal with the ad companies that the revenue is split prior to this but that is very dodgy from Bethesda's point of view... and well Google own ad sense and licence uploaded videos so they can do what they want.

    Google do not own the video but they own youtube and therefor the right for your video to be uploaded to it.

    Modders have enough to do without having to write business plans and start calculating how to split revenue. If they are organised enough to be making that much money out of it then they will most likely get a call from Bethesda asking them if they would like a job.

    However if Bethesda could get them to become self employed (which is what the recent experiment would have entailed) then they would prefer to do that as they have little to no responsibility for them... but still make a load of money.
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745
    Well i should make videos instead of mods ^^

    To be more serious : you miss an important point :
    Bethesda allow site like nexus to gain $500.000 a year from ads, while being a platform for downloading free mods.. made with the creation kit and their assets. And the sole maker of some of the said mods would not be able to gain some buck from the same kind of earnings ???
    crazy.

    Again the mod is not SELL, the mod is free, the mod doesn't give a cent to the modder, only the ads give money. And that's absolutely legal, beacause i can already put ads on my own website showing my mods with no risks.

    @sunshinenbrick : sorry miss but you should learn how adsense/adwords works. and nor google, nor youtube own your videos they are plateform providers period.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'd like to know where you are getting this financial info about the Nexus. It was my understanding they consistently run at a loss. Running a popular website takes a lot of time, and one that uses a ton of bandwidth can be very expensive.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: If your video violates copyright they can take it down immediately without your consent. They own the licence for your video to be distributed on their network.

    One should not try compare the youtube model to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts.
    macintroll wrote: @Marstonn
    Anybody is able to monetize his video on Google.
    Being in a "network" (what does it really mean in your mind ?) is not necessary , but for sure better for the number of views.

    and concerning what can be "game press" well of course they are allowed, they are free advertiser for the games companies ^^ new games are send to them for reviews , even presents etc..

    What is not authorized is to diffuse a video with Copyright content (the video itself, music etc...)
    macintroll wrote: quote "You cannot compare the youtube setup to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts."

    Well so explain me why Nexus is allowed to make $500.000+ / year in ads earnings...
    then explain me why i can't make some $ the same way, thanks.

    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Some days ago Dark0ne said he was spending 500.000$ a year only for servers renting and additional costs. So i take this as a base.. but it could be far more in fact ^^
    As the only nexus earnings are Ads.. (and some memberships) .. it's easy to understand how much is gain from ads earnings.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I don't understand how you are extrapolating profit from what Dark0ne is saying he spends to keep the site running. It sounds to me like this is a huge money sink for him.
    greggorypeccary wrote: It isn't
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Ok if you think so, but what lead you to think this ? have you found some numbers ?
    A company (black tree gaming) own the nexus, and make money like any company, has operating costs like any other , at least the goal is to maintain an equilibrium. No one can work loosing money for long you know, and Nexus is growing "open to all games", it doesn't sound like a loosing company.
    So if you have at least $500.000 to spend each year to make your business active, you need to earn at minima as much money somewhere.
    And apart from nexus network what are the incomes ? none i'm aware of.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Please remember the money made by the Nexus is for the use of the Nexus, not for individual mods. This is why they are allowed to do it.

    In legal terms when one donates for a mod they are not paying for the mod they are actually donating to the modder themselves, this is why Bethesda turn a blind eye. It is advantageous to them and it is also somewhat on the fence legally on whether the donation was for the mod or just because you like to support what the modder does. It really is a setup that is based on good will a trust, both from Bethesda's point of view and Nexus and its users.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I have no evidence of anything. I was going on Dark0ne's word that he runs this site at a loss. I have no reason to believe otherwise, and I would be surprised if a site like this was making any significant amount of profit. He spends a lot of money on upkeep, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is making at least that from donations/ads. I have friends who made a ton of money off of Bitcoins, and are now engaging in labors of love that are also money sinks.

    Do you have some information the rest of us don't?
    macintroll wrote: quote : " Do you have some information the rest of us don't?"
    All key financial info on companies are publicly available (thus it's last year for most yet) and detailled info can be bought if you want.
    Google the company name you'll find more info. (not very difficult)

    I'm not here to accuse nexus of anything, just to point the fact that they are allowed to make money from ads, is it enough, is it too much ?, it's not the point of my discussion, honestly I don't care, the "service" is good here, i really appreciate what Dark0ne has made and how it helps the "community".

    But if they can do it, rightfully gaining money providing access to modders content ...why not also the modders who provide each part of the content of this site ?.
    I see it as a win-win solution : free mods for end users and modders rewarded with some $

    Again in this formula, it's not the mod which is giving money to the modder, it's the audience it generate like elsewhere, exactly what does the nexus to pay their bills.


    The world is full of hugely profitable companies whose whose image is " We're your friend. We're here to help you" . And don't let the words Non Profit fool you either. My advise is that when they offer you the Kool-Aide tomorrow.....Don't drink it.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754, #24806814, #24806854, #24807069, #24807204, #24807289, #24807309, #24807344, #24807574, #24807704, #24807719, #24807814, #24807909, #24808129 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do. I agree that there needs to be a higher mandate of cohesion, however a top-down approach can only do so much.

    If you have not already have a read of the posts in the following Nexus forum:

    http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

    While this only scratches the surface it can hopefully start a communal consensus on what role we all play in this giant machine.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm not sure Nexus is making a profit. It was my understanding that Dark0ne runs this site at a loss. A labor of love.

    Capitalism is the best economic system we've discovered thus far, but it has its flaws. One of those flaws is there is always a "race to the bottom"--hamburger patties get smaller, the toaster burns out faster, and just the general overall quality of everything slowly goes down over time. And all in the name of maximizing profits. There is no reason to believe this paradigm wouldn't happen with game mods.

    Take a great mod like Falskaar for example. The author put a ton of time and energy into this expansion, and churned out a mod that, in my opinion, is heads above anything Bethesda has tried to peddle to us. Now what if he had been contracted by Bethesda to make it? All of a sudden there would be a deadline by which they expect it to be ready. They want it now now now because time is money, and the author wouldn't be able to take his time to put in all the details he otherwise would have. There might even be bugs he didn't have time to fix, or other shortcuts he had to take to make sure Bethesda had their product on time (and in corporate-America it ceases to be "art", and becomes a nameless PRODUCT--a widget on an assembly line whose sole purpose is to increase profit). I believe this is what happened to Skyrim. The programmers were rushed, and released a bug-filled, and partially incomplete product. In fact I think they just quickly ported it from the console version.

    Not to mention that the number of mods required to make Skyrim enjoyable (say at $1.99 each) is out of the budget for most gamers. I know I have over 100 mods myself. This means that save for a few exceptional mods, most mod authors won't be making very much because the gamers simply cannot afford it. There will be all these mods on some paysite that never (or only rarely) get downloaded, and eventually the mod authors will stop writing mods because unless they are churning out the next Falsksaar, it just isn't worth their time. This will most likely kill the modding community because by then Bethesda will probably have taken steps to close down sites like the Nexus because they will want to maintain their monopoly.
    macintroll wrote: Quote Sunshinenbrick "This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do."

    Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part.
    ChizFoShiz wrote: While you're right about the nexus, you're way off base about falskaar given that it was made as Alexander's "application" for employment from Bethesda, while I'm sure Alexander loves to make content and all and I wouldn't dream of making assumptions of what his stance would be here, his mod had the specific goal of gainful employment in mind.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Whether he put Falskaar on his resume or not is irrelevant. He worked on it for free, and gave it to the community for free, and he had no idea whether it would get him a job for sure or not.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Nexus is not allowed to make direct profit from mods, as I gather from the legal premise Bethesda has put down in its EULA (mods must be free). By paying people through revenue they would have to include taxes and therefore be bordering on being classified as employees and would in many ways become competition to Bethesda. Youtube own the content uploaded, Nexus does not it is still technically Bethesda's property.

    Additionally I think Nexus would rather avoid the headache of having to decide who is able to enter such a scheme and who is not. Especially as the creation of a mod is rarely the work of a single individual.

    The crunch is Bethesda are very flexible on this issue because they make A LOT of money out of it, steer the money in other directions and they will quickly bare their teeth I can assure you.
    macintroll wrote: @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.
    The money is given ONLY because of popularity of the youtubber's page and the number of ads clicked.
    2) Youtube is not the proprietary of your videos.
    3) For multi-modders mod, i think it's there own work to share retribution % to the different persons who have work together, not nexus not any one else.
    Moderation has to occur for sure, but they show by the past that they can do this very well (banning bad boys & girls)
    4) Well yes bethesda can do what they want with their game, and also can stop the nexus tomorrow if they want.
    freedom613 wrote: @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Again, Sunshine is right. The Youtube thing people keep bringing up is also a false analogy, because intellectual property laws make a distinction between profiting off of someone's IP directly, or from the incidental use of that IP.

    With Youtube, Bethesda's IP is not being violated. You don't get to play Skyrim for free, nor do you benefit from anything for free that would normally defer to Bethesda for some sort of profit. You are just watching someone ELSE play Skyrim--and that person (presumably) bought Skyrim and has a legal right to not only play it, but to film themselves playing it, and then they can do whatever they want with the video of them playing Skyrim.

    When you design something with their creation kit, you are directly utilizing their IP from start to finish, and your mod requires Skyrim to play. Bethesda's EULA allows you to trade the mod with friends, put it on a website, or do a lot of things with it as long as you aren't trying to make a profit.
    greggorypeccary wrote: macintroll said
    @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.

    Yes but the Nexus takes all of the advertising money already so they would have to part with some and some subscription money too. If they are willing.
    Marstonn wrote: No, the youtube have "networks", these guys have deals with devs and are allowed to monetize on game videos, the youtuber must be part of a network (Machinima, Youtube, etc).

    Edit, example: MMoxreview the guy from Skyrim Mods Weekly is a part of Machinima, so that's why he can monetize.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I must admit to complete ignorance to how that works. I will check it out though.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: The money from advertising goes to Nexus first and they would have to distribute it. Yes you are right that Nexus could strike a deal with the ad companies that the revenue is split prior to this but that is very dodgy from Bethesda's point of view... and well Google own ad sense and licence uploaded videos so they can do what they want.

    Google do not own the video but they own youtube and therefor the right for your video to be uploaded to it.

    Modders have enough to do without having to write business plans and start calculating how to split revenue. If they are organised enough to be making that much money out of it then they will most likely get a call from Bethesda asking them if they would like a job.

    However if Bethesda could get them to become self employed (which is what the recent experiment would have entailed) then they would prefer to do that as they have little to no responsibility for them... but still make a load of money.
    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745
    Well i should make videos instead of mods ^^

    To be more serious : you miss an important point :
    Bethesda allow site like nexus to gain $500.000 a year from ads, while being a platform for downloading free mods.. made with the creation kit and their assets. And the sole maker of some of the said mods would not be able to gain some buck from the same kind of earnings ???
    crazy.

    Again the mod is not SELL, the mod is free, the mod doesn't give a cent to the modder, only the ads give money. And that's absolutely legal, beacause i can already put ads on my own website showing my mods with no risks.

    @sunshinenbrick : sorry miss but you should learn how adsense/adwords works. and nor google, nor youtube own your videos they are plateform providers period.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'd like to know where you are getting this financial info about the Nexus. It was my understanding they consistently run at a loss. Running a popular website takes a lot of time, and one that uses a ton of bandwidth can be very expensive.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: If your video violates copyright they can take it down immediately without your consent. They own the licence for your video to be distributed on their network.

    One should not try compare the youtube model to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts.
    macintroll wrote: @Marstonn
    Anybody is able to monetize his video on Google.
    Being in a "network" (what does it really mean in your mind ?) is not necessary , but for sure better for the number of views.

    and concerning what can be "game press" well of course they are allowed, they are free advertiser for the games companies ^^ new games are send to them for reviews , even presents etc..

    What is not authorized is to diffuse a video with Copyright content (the video itself, music etc...)
    macintroll wrote: quote "You cannot compare the youtube setup to the Nexus, modder, Bethesda, Valve model... they really are very different beasts."

    Well so explain me why Nexus is allowed to make $500.000+ / year in ads earnings...
    then explain me why i can't make some $ the same way, thanks.

    macintroll wrote: @Vesuvius1745

    Some days ago Dark0ne said he was spending 500.000$ a year only for servers renting and additional costs. So i take this as a base.. but it could be far more in fact ^^
    As the only nexus earnings are Ads.. (and some memberships) .. it's easy to understand how much is gain from ads earnings.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I don't understand how you are extrapolating profit from what Dark0ne is saying he spends to keep the site running. It sounds to me like this is a huge money sink for him.


    It isn't

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754, #24806814, #24806854, #24807069, #24807204 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do. I agree that there needs to be a higher mandate of cohesion, however a top-down approach can only do so much.

    If you have not already have a read of the posts in the following Nexus forum:

    http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

    While this only scratches the surface it can hopefully start a communal consensus on what role we all play in this giant machine.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm not sure Nexus is making a profit. It was my understanding that Dark0ne runs this site at a loss. A labor of love.

    Capitalism is the best economic system we've discovered thus far, but it has its flaws. One of those flaws is there is always a "race to the bottom"--hamburger patties get smaller, the toaster burns out faster, and just the general overall quality of everything slowly goes down over time. And all in the name of maximizing profits. There is no reason to believe this paradigm wouldn't happen with game mods.

    Take a great mod like Falskaar for example. The author put a ton of time and energy into this expansion, and churned out a mod that, in my opinion, is heads above anything Bethesda has tried to peddle to us. Now what if he had been contracted by Bethesda to make it? All of a sudden there would be a deadline by which they expect it to be ready. They want it now now now because time is money, and the author wouldn't be able to take his time to put in all the details he otherwise would have. There might even be bugs he didn't have time to fix, or other shortcuts he had to take to make sure Bethesda had their product on time (and in corporate-America it ceases to be "art", and becomes a nameless PRODUCT--a widget on an assembly line whose sole purpose is to increase profit). I believe this is what happened to Skyrim. The programmers were rushed, and released a bug-filled, and partially incomplete product. In fact I think they just quickly ported it from the console version.

    Not to mention that the number of mods required to make Skyrim enjoyable (say at $1.99 each) is out of the budget for most gamers. I know I have over 100 mods myself. This means that save for a few exceptional mods, most mod authors won't be making very much because the gamers simply cannot afford it. There will be all these mods on some paysite that never (or only rarely) get downloaded, and eventually the mod authors will stop writing mods because unless they are churning out the next Falsksaar, it just isn't worth their time. This will most likely kill the modding community because by then Bethesda will probably have taken steps to close down sites like the Nexus because they will want to maintain their monopoly.
    macintroll wrote: Quote Sunshinenbrick "This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do."

    Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part.
    ChizFoShiz wrote: While you're right about the nexus, you're way off base about falskaar given that it was made as Alexander's "application" for employment from Bethesda, while I'm sure Alexander loves to make content and all and I wouldn't dream of making assumptions of what his stance would be here, his mod had the specific goal of gainful employment in mind.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Whether he put Falskaar on his resume or not is irrelevant. He worked on it for free, and gave it to the community for free, and he had no idea whether it would get him a job for sure or not.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Nexus is not allowed to make direct profit from mods, as I gather from the legal premise Bethesda has put down in its EULA (mods must be free). By paying people through revenue they would have to include taxes and therefore be bordering on being classified as employees and would in many ways become competition to Bethesda. Youtube own the content uploaded, Nexus does not it is still technically Bethesda's property.

    Additionally I think Nexus would rather avoid the headache of having to decide who is able to enter such a scheme and who is not. Especially as the creation of a mod is rarely the work of a single individual.

    The crunch is Bethesda turn are very flexible on this issue because they make A LOT of money out of it, steer the money in other directions and they will quickly bare their teeth I can assure you.
    macintroll wrote: @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.
    The money is given ONLY because of popularity of the youtubber's page and the number of ads clicked.
    2) Youtube is not the proprietary of your videos.
    3) For multi-modders mod, i think it's there own work to share retribution % to the different persons who have work together, not nexus not any one else.
    Moderation has to occur for sure, but they show by the past that they can do this very well (banning bad boys & girls)
    4) Well yes bethesda can do what they want with their game, and also can stop the nexus tomorrow if they want.
    freedom613 wrote: @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Again, Sunshine is right. The Youtube thing people keep bringing up is also a false analogy, because intellectual property laws make a distinction between profiting off of someone's IP directly, or from the incidental use of that IP.

    With Youtube, Bethesda's IP is not being violated. You don't get to play Skyrim for free, nor do you benefit from anything for free that would normally defer to Bethesda for some sort of profit. You are just watching someone ELSE play Skyrim--and that person (presumably) bought Skyrim and has a legal right to not only play it, but to film themselves playing it, and then they can do whatever they want with the video of them playing Skyrim.

    When you design something with their creation kit, you are directly utilizing their IP from start to finish, and your mod requires Skyrim to play. Bethesda's EULA allows you to trade the mod with friends, put it on a website, or do a lot of things with it as long as you aren't trying to make a profit.
    greggorypeccary wrote: macintroll said
    @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.

    Yes but the Nexus takes all of the advertising money already so they would have to part with some and some subscription money too. If they are willing.
    Marstonn wrote: No, the youtube have "networks", these guys have deals with devs and are allowed to monetize on game videos, the youtuber must be part of a network (Machinima, Youtube, etc).


    I must admit to complete ignorance to how that works. I will check it out though.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294, #24804639, #24804809, #24805479, #24805499, #24806059, #24806324, #24806514, #24806754, #24806814, #24806854 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do. I agree that there needs to be a higher mandate of cohesion, however a top-down approach can only do so much.

    If you have not already have a read of the posts in the following Nexus forum:

    http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

    While this only scratches the surface it can hopefully start a communal consensus on what role we all play in this giant machine.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm not sure Nexus is making a profit. It was my understanding that Dark0ne runs this site at a loss. A labor of love.

    Capitalism is the best economic system we've discovered thus far, but it has its flaws. One of those flaws is there is always a "race to the bottom"--hamburger patties get smaller, the toaster burns out faster, and just the general overall quality of everything slowly goes down over time. And all in the name of maximizing profits. There is no reason to believe this paradigm wouldn't happen with game mods.

    Take a great mod like Falskaar for example. The author put a ton of time and energy into this expansion, and churned out a mod that, in my opinion, is heads above anything Bethesda has tried to peddle to us. Now what if he had been contracted by Bethesda to make it? All of a sudden there would be a deadline by which they expect it to be ready. They want it now now now because time is money, and the author wouldn't be able to take his time to put in all the details he otherwise would have. There might even be bugs he didn't have time to fix, or other shortcuts he had to take to make sure Bethesda had their product on time (and in corporate-America it ceases to be "art", and becomes a nameless PRODUCT--a widget on an assembly line whose sole purpose is to increase profit). I believe this is what happened to Skyrim. The programmers were rushed, and released a bug-filled, and partially incomplete product. In fact I think they just quickly ported it from the console version.

    Not to mention that the number of mods required to make Skyrim enjoyable (say at $1.99 each) is out of the budget for most gamers. I know I have over 100 mods myself. This means that save for a few exceptional mods, most mod authors won't be making very much because the gamers simply cannot afford it. There will be all these mods on some paysite that never (or only rarely) get downloaded, and eventually the mod authors will stop writing mods because unless they are churning out the next Falsksaar, it just isn't worth their time. This will most likely kill the modding community because by then Bethesda will probably have taken steps to close down sites like the Nexus because they will want to maintain their monopoly.
    macintroll wrote: Quote Sunshinenbrick "This is a massively complex situation and in many regards the Nexus have their hands tied in what they can legally do."

    Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part.
    ChizFoShiz wrote: While you're right about the nexus, you're way off base about falskaar given that it was made as Alexander's "application" for employment from Bethesda, while I'm sure Alexander loves to make content and all and I wouldn't dream of making assumptions of what his stance would be here, his mod had the specific goal of gainful employment in mind.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Whether he put Falskaar on his resume or not is irrelevant. He worked on it for free, and gave it to the community for free, and he had no idea whether it would get him a job for sure or not.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Nexus is not allowed to make direct profit from mods, as I gather from the legal premise Bethesda has put down in its EULA (mods must be free). By paying people through revenue they would have to include taxes and therefore be bordering on being classified as employees and would in many ways become competition to Bethesda. Youtube own the content uploaded, Nexus does not it is still technically Bethesda's property.

    Additionally I think Nexus would rather avoid the headache of having to decide who is able to enter such a scheme and who is not. Especially as the creation of a mod is rarely the work of a single individual.

    The crunch is Bethesda turn are very flexible on this issue because they make A LOT of money out of it, steer the money in other directions and they will quickly bare their teeth I can assure you.
    macintroll wrote: @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.
    The money is given ONLY because of popularity of the youtubber's page and the number of ads clicked.
    2) Youtube is not the proprietary of your videos.
    3) For multi-modders mod, i think it's there own work to share retribution % to the different persons who have work together, not nexus not any one else.
    Moderation has to occur for sure, but they show by the past that they can do this very well (banning bad boys & girls)
    4) Well yes bethesda can do what they want with their game, and also can stop the nexus tomorrow if they want.
    freedom613 wrote: @Sunshine, is this in response to Mac's post: "Not really sure why nexus should be tied for adding an ads earning to modders.

    The same thing exist on youtube where youtubbers/players can showcase videos game walk threw , reviews, or simply their gameplay and get some $ simply because they have xxx views.
    Nobodies even bethesda ever complain about this. but the fact is, they are making money when playing a game ^^

    It works because what is rewarded in this case is not the content itself, it's the audience, the more audience the more incomes (basic advertising earnings concept)

    And more, the content itself is still FREE OF CHARGE for the end-user, and for me it's the best part."

    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Again, Sunshine is right. The Youtube thing people keep bringing up is also a false analogy, because intellectual property laws make a distinction between profiting off of someone's IP directly, or from the incidental use of that IP.

    With Youtube, Bethesda's IP is not being violated. You don't get to play Skyrim for free, nor do you benefit from anything for free that would normally defer to Bethesda for some sort of profit. You are just watching someone ELSE play Skyrim--and that person (presumably) bought Skyrim and has a legal right to not only play it, but to film themselves playing it, and then they can do whatever they want with the video of them playing Skyrim.

    When you design something with their creation kit, you are directly utilizing their IP from start to finish, and your mod requires Skyrim to play. Bethesda's EULA allows you to trade the mod with friends, put it on a website, or do a lot of things with it as long as you aren't trying to make a profit.


    macintroll said
    @sunshinenbrick
    1) It's not nexus who has to pay the modder. youtube does not pay the youtubber, each youtubber make a single contract with google adsense, and adsense give the money.

    Yes but the Nexus takes all of the advertising money already so they would have to part with some and some subscription money too. If they are willing.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729, #24803904, #24804179, #24804294 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Fair enough, Gregory. I used to create mods for Morrowind. My payment was the enjoyment of doing it. I've started a few mods for Skyrim, and if I ever get around to finishing them, they will be released for free as well. There are many reasons I wouldn't want to get paid, but one of them is because I have enjoyed the free content other people like you have given to the community over the years. It wouldn't seem right to take payment. It's kind of like those "give a penny, take a penny" bowls you see at convenience stores. Or the person in front of you at Starbucks who paid for your drink.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: Greggory I really like your mod, it looks like a lot of time and effort went in to it and I think you should never let anyone tell you how to or not to follow your ambitions. However the system that Valvethesda tried to set up was exploitative, turning honest do good modders into slave developers and customer support workers and making people who buy mods, cash cows.

    I have no problem with encouraging people to form collective game development projects that can become paid for content, but that was not what they put on the table. Realise your own worth and fight for a better deal from the hand in the sky.


    I'm not even talking about Steam or Bethesda. I like Bethesda, A lot. To me it is the Nexus that should be nuturing the modders mainly because they profit from them. The nexus is the one who benefits from the community and the modders. Its time to give something back. They stand to the side while the community fights between modders and users and it plays into their hands while they pretend they don't realize they are part of it.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499, #24803564, #24803639, #24803729 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Sunshine is right. The "well, umm, what have you contributed?" reply is just a way to avoid addressing the points made.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: I'm being serious Greggory, and not insulting you. If your mods are so great, why don't you try and sell them to Bethesda or some other game company? Crying about not being able to sell them on Valve on the Nexus is a pointless endeavor.

    Or better yet, why not get a job at a game company? I used to work at Electronic Arts in the early 2000s. Redwood Shores in California. The pay is good, the benefits are good, and you get to work on games for a living.


    Again I'm not crying. I'm fine, my mod was free and always will be. My payment was friends and knowledge. If i were to do more I'd want money. If that makes me a greedy monster taking away your free stuff in your eyes, so be it. I'll sleep tonight.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804, #24802979, #24803189, #24803484, #24803499 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?
    greggorypeccary wrote: You could hope but you'd be wrong.
    pintocat wrote: greggorypeccary has a mod. You, on the other hand, have zero. If you've got no contributions to the community, you have no place talking down to someone who actually has.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: So all of this crying from Gregory over a single mod? Hilarious. If your mod is so wonderful, why don't you try and sell it to Bethesda? They could incorporate it into their next DLC.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: No offence to any mod creator but it is not the only thing people can contribute.


    Vesuvius1745

    The more you say the more apparent your ignorance becomes.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24798859. #24798999, #24799109, #24799114, #24799789, #24800024, #24800839, #24802019, #24802639, #24802919, #24803084, #24803214 are all replies on the same post.


    Nightasy wrote:
    Axeface wrote: Well said Nightasy, and thankyou for your tutorials. Sad to see your mods go, but I agree with everything you said.
    Like someone else here said. Youtubers can make money from everyones mods. Twitch streamers can. The nexus can. Valve and Beth can, yet the 'community' actively refuses modders that chance, and it's only a chance, because only quality would actually sell.
    Self determination is important, and that has been refused.

    In hindsight they should have actively curated the system, just like they do in other games. And allowed a donate button, instead of the 'pay-what-you-want-but-PAY' system.
    UberSmaug wrote: Sums up everything I've been saying for the past few days. Well said.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I don't see how any thinking person could fault you.
    vimebox wrote: Playing music for a family event is DIFFERENT from playing concert! go join as bethesda employee if u want a "REAL CONCERT!" and play here if u want to entertain a POOR PATHETIC FAMILY! who can only gives u a constructive critics!

    did u know that somehow your mod makes RICH people buy vanilla skyrim? and bethesda not giving u anything not even a simple thanks of endorsement from that uprising selling! instead we gave u endorsement as a portfolio for your good credibility. in conclusion bethesda SHOULD make u as their employee/DLC project instead of taking money from your FAMILY!
    arxerisdam wrote: i think all modders who feel that way should actually go and download their stuff.

    Someone else will take the place and life will go on.
    greggorypeccary wrote: I think they will. So what's your point. In the end you can download free mods from wealthy people and people that think it is their hobby and very new modders who just want experience. They will be free though so I guess you win. Some will even be good.
    CNR4806 wrote: Well, goodbye then?

    What makes you think you're the first? What makes you think Skyrim is the first place I've seen modders with attitude like yours?

    From what I see over the years (including games with a free/paid mod split like The Sims), every time someone rage-quits, the community on a whole remains unchanged, the status quo is maintained and nobody even remembers that modder after a few months at best.

    One piece of advice: Don't get fooled by those who say "Awwww thank you for all these years of modding, I will miss you" when you announce your retirement. They'll happily move on before the end of the week and forget about you altogether.
    necroslord wrote: Just a remark to Axeface...

    I don't think it's right to compare streamers or the nexus' earnings to "paid mods" as they are somewhat different. Most of those earnings come from third parties and not the consumers themsleves (ads and such).

    A viewer can watch 10,000 videos in youtube and generate some revenue to the poster without too much trouble. But a player can't afford 100 mods at $1 a pop without affecting him to a greater or lesser degree.

    Not taking sides on the matter, as it's a very complicated matter I still ahven't wrapped my head around even when it's already dead. But think that saying:

    "Youtubers can make money from everyones mods. Twitch streamers can. The nexus can. Valve and Beth can, yet the 'community' actively refuses modders that chance"

    is not valid.
    Nightasy wrote: @CNR4806 - Oh, I'm not the first and I won't be the last. Artists have rights and no one should be allowed to take them away from us. The anti-paid mod community took away the right to sell mods from us. We need to fight for that freedom of choice. You have the right to choose whether or not do download mods, you have the right to choose whether or not to pay for mods. Artists should have the right to give away their work for free or charge a fee to purchase it.

    Lastly, thanks for more of your hateful and ungrateful sentiments. They are unwelcome but they continue to prove my points. I have no response towards them, I am done listening to the hate.
    freedom613 wrote: If I have the right to boycott buying mods, you have the right to boycott giving them away. I do not agree with what you are doing, but I will respect it.
    arxerisdam wrote: @greggorypeccary

    Some may even be good?

    I think they will be better the problem now is the actual modders crying out laud how evil mod users are,do not realize they need to convince those users to actually buy their stuff, but instead of that they cry to heaven curse the mod users, is riddiculous you antagonize your future clients.

    Now as anyone thinking in becoming a modder for hire?

    i mean there are tons of ideas to make some money in this kind of stuff but all i see is people complaining and taking stuff too personally and looking at users as evil demos.

    Really the momment you arent happy in a Open source community is time to pack up and move on, leave the spot open for new talented like minded people come and take the place, and i bet we will see a lot of good mods in the future and the community will endure no matter how many "amazing modders" go it has happen before with oblivion and the community is still here, growing and evolving, so yeah i think is time a lot of people just move on.

    and really poor modders? anyone spending time making a mod for a game most have a least a more less decent computer and enough free time to spend it doing it plus an internet connection to upload the mod. if he has thbat thats not a poor modder. and if by any chance it is poor and is losing he's/her time in making mods for a game for free then that person has a big problem of priorities


    Then you'll be happy.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379, #24802609, #24802804 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.
    greggorypeccary wrote: Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Gregory, I see exactly zero contributions from you. Are you one of those modders who threw a temper tantrum and hid all your mods?


    You could hope but you'd be wrong.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24798804. #24799224, #24799404, #24799519, #24799644, #24799784, #24801389, #24801434, #24801494, #24801679, #24801989, #24802034, #24802614, #24802704 are all replies on the same post.


    retakrew7 wrote:
    UberSmaug wrote: "There are certainly other ways of supporting modder, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn't replace another, and we want the choice to be the community's. Yet. in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop than he made in all the years he asked for donations."

    -Bethesda Game Studios

    Donations don't work.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: @Uber because of one anecdotal and unsubstantiated claim from a Bethesda puppet, you have come to the conclusion that donations don't work? How droll.

    Up until recently there weren't donation buttons on mods at the Nexus. A lot of people weren't aware they could donate. Let's see how that plays out.
    greggorypeccary wrote: The fact that the button has been there over a year and most people don't even know it should give you an indication of how important it is to the community.
    UberSmaug wrote: by the time the system was pulled down, the maker of purity would have earned over $1000, in five days. That is not anecdotal and unsubstantiated. It was fact. I looked at the subs and did the math myself. Likely they saw modders were making too much money off their IP, and the riots gave them the excuse to pull out. I don't really want to believe that however. I found that the willingness to share what they created, and graciously allowing others to profit off their work is commendable.
    Fowldragon wrote: Foster has posted her position on Donations and with a 1 sentence argument she convinced me Donations don't work. 100,000 downloads...1 donation.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: If you want to make money doing this sort of thing--get a job at a game company.

    Upset that you can't sell your latest greatest mod? If it's so high quality that it's worth money--peddle it to a game company.

    Otherwise, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. The modding community has been doing just fine for over 15 years without a single person being paid a cent. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    freedom613 wrote: Donations do not work, but as it was shown, neither do paywalls.

    The problem with both is that each one is biased to the opposite party. Donations are biased against the modder since most people do not use them, and paywalls are biased against the consumer for a list of reasons which I have explained too many times (check my post history if you truly are curious).

    What we need is a third option. What about Patreon?
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: Why do we need a "third option"? The modding scene has been doing just fine for over 15 years without a single person being paid a cent. I know because I was one of the first people to put out mods on Morrowind, and a few other games. My then GF was one of the biggest modders on the Sims. Modding is a labor of love--not a career choice. If you want to get paid, get a job at a game company.
    freedom613 wrote: Because the Genie is out of the bottle and no matter how hard you try, it is never going back in the bottle. Modders saw they could make money, and that is a lure hard to give up especially with the way many boycotters acted. Patreon is the best of both worlds, you have a donation system but it rewards donators as well.
    UberSmaug wrote: @Vesuvius1745 Despite the fact you are simply being rude and dismissive. You are not making a valid counterpoint.

    "...we’re looking at some modders making more money than the studio members whose content is being edited."

    -Bethesda Game Studios

    I get to work from home, on my own time, set my own deadlines. Only work on the projects I chose. Wearing pants is optional. Why would you not want to be a freelance game artist if given the opportunity to make as much if not more than a studio developer.

    beewyka819 wrote: Actually Vesuvius1746, you'll tend to find that modders are saying the same thing in how donations are rare and don't make them much money at all.

    Donations don't work.
    freedom613 wrote: Uber, modding isn't profitable in the long run for modders.

    1. Paywalling will lead to a decrease in the quality of mods. If I can get the same, if not more, amount of money making a sword retexture than you can making a 20+ hour companion mod, why would you make a companion mod?

    If you are going to make a big mod, you need to look at the opportunity cost. If you spend three months making a companion that will net you $800 when you could spend that same time either working a job which is a guaranteed fix income or making ten swords that will net you $100 each, why make the companion? Out of the goodness of your heart? That isn't how business works.

    2. Modding is a community effort. Modders do not usually make 100% of their mod. Arissa 2, formerly a 3pdlc, used a great deal of content from other modders: hair, outfit, etc. When chesko finally removed the stuff he didn't make, the quality of the mod dropped.

    Wet and Cold lost their amazing cloak textures. The fishing mod got yanked because Fore owned the animation files. The solution one would think is to cut the other 3pdlcers in on the proceeds yes?

    Splitting the 25% cut, especially after paying thousands to buy the commercial licence for the programs you need isn't feasible economically. Which is why a one person retexture will always make more money than a group collab.

    3. It puts modders in competition. Modding as I said before is community driven. Once money gets involved, that breaks down. Texturers that once helped each other are now competing against their former friends for market share. Instead of building each other up, they are tearing each other down. This backfires on you and me since we get a lower quality product.

    4. Making 3pdlc has a higher barrier to entry:
    $100 for Valve's fee.
    $1,470 for the commerical version of 3ds Max
    That ends up costing you $1,570 just to make a simple sword.

    5. Income tax.
    =============
    As cool as it would be for modders to support themselves doing what they love, it just isn't feasible for the vast majority (even if you factor in Sturgeon's Law).
    beewyka819 wrote: Another third way to go is for modders on things like the nexus get a cut of the revenue off the ads that display on their mod pages, like how youtube works.


    beewyka819 said.
    Another third way to go is for modders on things like the nexus get a cut of the revenue off the ads that display on their mod pages, like how youtube works.

    Ah ha!! now you're talkin'

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759. #24802244, #24802379 are all replies on the same post.


    DaddyDirection wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: The dirty secret here is Greggory gets free mods too. He's been enjoying the work of other people in the community for years. He's used the free utilities and resources provided to the community for free as well. But instead of paying-it-forward like all of the mod authors whose work he has enjoyed, he now wants to profit off of what others have allowed him to do.


    Its no dirty secret. I have been a contributing member of this community for some time. I'm proud of my contributions and any one can see them.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24799164. #24799594, #24801449, #24801539, #24801584, #24801689, #24801784, #24801834, #24801889, #24802154, #24802374, #24802439, #24802474 are all replies on the same post.


    Vesuvius1745 wrote:
    greggorypeccary wrote: Spoken like someone with no files. I wonder how many mods are in your load order?
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: How many mods are in yours? I am not going to explain any contributions I may or may not have made to the community because that is a red herring and irrelevant.

    Bottom line:

    If you want to make money doing this sort of thing--get a job at a game company.

    Upset that you can't sell your latest greatest mod? If it's so high quality that it's worth money--peddle it to a game company.

    Otherwise, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. The modding community has been doing just fine for over 15 years without a single person being paid a cent. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    greggorypeccary wrote: An as long as you get free mods you like it that way. I'm not surprised . But be aware I am not alone in my thoughts.
    freedom613 wrote: Vesuvius, Greggory;

    What would you think of Patreon? OpenWorldAddict made a post about it:

    "I have an idea for modders.... why not use Patreon. I know a lot of modders from other communities that have patreon accounts that allow people that want to support them to pay want they want either per month or for each mod that is uploaded or updated.

    I think the way patreon works would be great for the modders and the community. Not It allows people who really want to support their favorite content creators and have the money to due so, but it also ensures that the modders will make enough money for those high paying patrons and thus be able to provide their content for free to the rest of the community who can't afford to even pay donations.

    That is my idea, and I think it is a great one."

    This has worked with Youtubers and Minecrafters, I see no reason why it cannot work with Skyrim?
    greggorypeccary wrote: I'm not familiar with it. But all options are open.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: And YOU get free mods also, don't you? You've probably downloaded hundreds of free mods on multiple games. You have used the fruits of OTHER PEOPLE's labor for your own enjoyment, or used them to create your own stuff, or "borrowed" resources, or have something or other that relies on something else.

    You people are shortsighted, and your greed is sickening. Modders have been donating their work to this community for over a decade without any expectation--other than people pay-it-forward. People with actual marketable programming skills have donated COUNTLESS HOURS of their time to give this community FREE resources and utilities just to encourage them to put out more mods. I bet you have at least a half a dozen of those utilities and resources on your computer right now. Modding is and always has been a group effort, and this is what you people fail to understand. In your narcissism and arrogance you feel you are entitled to stand on the shoulders of others and profit off of that.
    arxerisdam wrote: What you say is true, the elder scrolls community as always been an open source community sharing between everyone to create better stuff.

    With all the crying and saddness from modders, as anyone has stoping feel sorry for himiself and think.

    "Ok i want to make money out of this. Now, HOW im going to convince mod-users to pay for this?"

    Because in the end is they who are going to buy the mods, if not who else?

    because i doubt you sell as much as downloads you have in some of the most popular mods really.

    And the really whats chesko did uploading a paid mod without asking permission from Fore's was really a big mistake and bring another more urgent problem the stealing of work from others. and thast a big problem because all you have in this kind of community is your reputation and i bet that hurt him at least a little.

    So instead of whining and crying you need to start thnking how you will sell the idea to mod users (customers with money) to buy your mods because i suspect the next fallout or elder scrolls game will try this again.

    They see mods like a source of future income, and it can be a very lucrative one.

    As long the players are willing to buy mods.

    freedom613 wrote: Patreon is a nutshell works like Kickstarter does but with donations instead of crowd funding. If I donate $1/mo the modder rewards me with screenshots of the upcoming versions. If I donate $10/mo the modder lets me beta test. If I donate $30/mo, the modder may put my name in the credits.

    Basically, when you donate, you are rewarded with a Gift Basket. Think going to your mate's birthday in elementary school and you "donated" him a present and in return you got a goody bag with a piece of chocolate or what not.
    Vesuvius1745 wrote: @Freedom I understand your position, and I am totally cool with donations to mod authors (and have donated, and encourage others to do so).

    Most of the mod authors in this community are great, and their work is appreciated. I am shocked by the behavior I have seen from a small but vocal percentage of mod authors. I am disgusted by the entitlement mentality they have, and the belief that they feel they should be allowed to profit off of other people's work, or incorporate free resources other people have donated for free into their work, and then profit off of that. I am dismayed by the temper tantrums I have seen from these people; some modders taking their marbles and running home (several of them removing all of their mods from the Nexus and saying, "If I can't get paid, f*#@ you!"

    In another thread a mod author even admitted she has downloaded over a TB of free mods from the Nexus, and has never donated a cent to either Nexus, or another mod author. I think that pretty much sums up the problem I have with these people.

    I do think one good thing will come from all of this: that this situation will cull the greedy pieces of excrement who are trying to make a money grab from the community of passionate and dedicated mod authors.
    Marstonn wrote: I think isn't allowed to the modders get a patreon to make mods, and is forbid announce the patreon in the page mod.
    beewyka819 wrote: The point is they've been being generous, so they deserve to be allowed to make money of of their work if they so decide to. You are being irrational, yes it has been functioning without money flow. But you seem to forget that what's more important than you being happy because YOU are a greedy human that can't give up at least 1 dollar for something is that these modders are human beings, not some money demons, the only reason they'd ask for money off of mods is if they need it, if they don't, they'll make it free, if they need it, they'll make it paid for only so they can get by in life. For example, I think the creator of say, Falskaar, deserves to earn a decent size of cash for it. You say no, because he's "generous" anyway, dude, that's cold, if he wants to sell it he should, and you should have zero say in the matter, because, last time I checked, you didn't spend a year of your life coding Falskaar, he did. So if he want's to earn some money to earn that year back, then he's damn well allowed to, but he doesn't need to because Bungie hired him because of the mod, but if that wasn't the case. He probably would've re-released it as paid, and no one would have the right to tell him otherwise, unless they're low-life pillocks.
    sunshinenbrick wrote: I have been thinking about this and I feel, if and when this is rolled out again (cuz it probably will), how do we know games won't be bundled with three swords, two shields and one player home... the rest you have to buy.

    I think if we have paid for mods they should really only be a very select few that make it to that prestige. Donations are great for any situation but many of the mods actually worth buying took a couple of years to appear.


    Careful you'll hurt yourself trying to be insulting without getting banned.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24801759.


    DaddyDirection wrote:


    Read my post, I used the nexus and it was very nice. It is a little blind to the fact that it does very well on the labors of un paid modders. It does not share the wealth with the ones that earn it for them. since you get free mods it seems fine to you. If you read my post I think you'll find that what I find is shameful really is that the nexus expects you to pay the modders. I think most of that onus is on them.
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