BreadedChickenKnife

i might. i really might. just need you to summarize it a bit better for my puny mind. i have great work ethic, have no fear.

cool idea. could you dumb it down though? i am a bit lost on a few points.

Total Deja vu Considering Cakester was banned and this is a brand new account, doesn't take much to add 1 and 1 together. Such an impulse as to tell us 1 plus 1, eh? Kai, I seem to see your name in two similar threads. Other than drawing our attention to your past opposition to this subject, do you have something non-arrogant to add? You are a jewel for the Nexus. No doubt people are susceptible to believing you because of your reputation. It is also tempting for some to just be a slave to others' ideologies. Like your tasteful commie approach to lowering the ambitions of the few to fuel the void of the many. I have seen people banned for less, which I why I am responding as if this is important. Dear breadedchickenknife Why don´t create a mod, upload it and instruct the user how to use your protection system, if you have created one at all? As I see it right now your only taking up forum space to feed your ego. If you are as good as you say you are prove it and show us your work! (with your encryption if you like) BTW are you the same guy who was banned from the fallout forums? No I am not the same guy. But I have searched for anyone who might of already suggested and/or delivered on protecting our mods. I really really believe my methods will work. edit: I am developing the program(s) . There is a time of day ;_)

Total Deja vu Considering Cakester was banned and this is a brand new account, doesn't take much to add 1 and 1 together. Such an impulse as to tell us 1 plus 1, eh? Kai, I seem to see your name in two similar threads. Other than drawing our attention to your past opposition to this subject, do you have something non-arrogant to add? You are a jewel for the Nexus. No doubt people are susceptible to believing you because of your reputation. It is also tempting for some to just be a slave to others' ideologies. Like your tasteful commie approach to lowering the ambitions of the few to fuel the void of the many. I have seen people banned for less, which I why I am responding as if this is important.

I hope this clears things up. 1 Program to Protect. The Creator now has a protected plugin. 1 Program to use a Protected File. The end-user now has a way to play others' protected mods. The purpose of this post is not to encourage RE. But I am pleased to inform potential users of my tools, that no Reverse Engineer on earth would bother to try, soon after they discover the truth of the following: 1. No crack could be distributed that hastens the process of obtaining an unprotected plugin or automates the steps to uncovering one. 2. Every ESP will be protected in such a unique way that the effort involved in breaking the protection, would far outweigh their patience and most likely time. Before I get into details of how this is all possible, I will address the main concerns many will have. A. Performance. The performance of your game will not be noticeably affected. Once the plugin is loaded into the game, you are set. Only at startup will there be any delay. The delay will be quite minimal . Restarting the game is the same idea. If these conditions change I will update everyone. Out of fear of being criticized I will only slightly elaborate on something relating to performance. The mod creator is the only one who may experience small inconvenience while waiting for the protector to do its job. So some visible delay should hold true for the person using the protection but not really the people who play the protected mod after its handed out. B. Dependencies. If your favorite modders likes to use my program to protect their mod(s), then you will need to expect a program to allow you to play their mod(s). Use of my program is optional to begin with. Furthermore, my program does not make the mod creator dependent on anything to continue to develop an unprotected version. The common sense approach is to protect only a *copy* the file. C. Outcomes. I think most of us can agree that the outcome of voluntary submissions of information is often a a joyous feeling for the submitter and the community. Not every submitter feels a complete obligation to exposing their work. Some are kind enough to let you play their impressive mods and others will even hold your hand to help you learn a new technique. That is their will. D. Legal standings and Community Law. First we should consult the Nexus rules and see what , if any, are violated and how we determine what is relevant to this tool and the protected mods that are to be uploaded. “All files uploaded must have been created by the uploader or used with permission from the original author of the content. “ So the ESPs we share are ours? Then a protected ESP is still ours. The use of my tool is optional, thus the creator did consent to what was done to the ESP. Seems to be as fair to let people upload protected ESPs. The tool I will give someone permission to upload, or simply upload it myself. Check.. “Any files that contain sexual images or reference of sexual acts...“ People will still attempt this and they get banned. My protector would not cause that behavior. “Do not upload files that contain viruses, malware, spyware, adware or any software or code that would compromise the integrity of a system or the user’s game.” Most would agree that to compromise the integrity of a user's game, it doesn't take much. It typically is not intended. I hope people to a proper investigation before jumping to conclusions about a diminished integrity of X computer. My program will not be a virus. Malware being categorically acceptable for some DRMs and Anti-cheats, isn't applicable to what users of my program will experience. “Do not upload files that are knowingly broken and known to prevent the majority of member’s games from working properly.” If someone frequently uploaded broken files and did not state in the description why they occur broke, then there is a good reason for suspicion. Till then, they shouldn't be accused of mischief unless you have proof. I think if people noted that their plugin is protected in their readme and on their download page, then fears should be pretty low. If I was the moderator and received a complaint, I would check the file in these ways, I. Virus Scan. II. Does it have a known file format? III. Can it even execute? In the case of the protected plugins, they will pass those tests. HARMLESS. “Do not upload files that are password protected or contain password protected sections.” No problem here. The rules obviously applies to the classic password protected zip files and archives. I would see if the file can even be executed, scan it with a virus scanner, and see if there are known file formats that at all match. The protected plugins which would be uploaded, would pass all these tests. “Do not upload files that require users to pay any sort of financial sum for parts or all of your file. You cannot charge money for the files you upload to Nexus sites.” Good advice. Also know that this could of always been done, and we don't care for weasels who try to make money that way. Final thoughts, My concerns for Bethesda's reactions: Bethesda could come after me or any of you. But that remains true in many cases regardless of the subject. Legally, Bethesda could also go after the people who have reverse engineered Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas. I think we know by now that we are valued for our mods. Mods do commonly use a script extender, which was made possible through Reverse Engineering.

Oh it is very easy to hide your scripts anyway. They can be decompiled by someone with enough skill, but frankly anyone with that much coding knowledge is unlikely to need to look at your scripts. Everything that is done in FO3 or FNV has been done a million times somewhere else. Maybe in a different code language and different platform, but to a coder thats just flavour. Every single mod I have made uses techniques used in either other mods or other games, or even other media types (movies editting for example). For me to try an hide my scripts would be futile because anyone with a semi decent grounding in the technology should be able to figure out how I did it. Besides, half my scripts owe their existance to tutorials made by some of the scripting greats like Cipsis. Every HUD mod I make owes is existance to pioneers like Darn who I still look to when I get stuck. And whilst most of my models are my own work, I got into modelling because a modder called Daejones let me use one of hs models as a base. I guarantee without his kindness I would never have learned to use blender and make my own models. Nightvision? Pretty sure I saw a mod by antistar before I had the idea to add that. Thermal imaging? Someone sent me a link to an Oblivion mod by Lucy Blue. I never copy script code, but the chances are if you have made a mod for FO3 or FNV I have opened it up to see what made it tick, and so for all I know there may be something in one of my mods that you yourself made and it stuck in my mind :) So what sort of ingrate would I be to in turn deny other modders the chance to learn to do stuff from my scripts? Confidence in the people, just not the person? Quit agreeing with each other. I am sick of your delusions. Your reasons are not an appropriate response to the large context you pretend to know. The essentials of modding have been mapped out through voluntary submissions. However, good modders arent made by snatching the precise implementations of others' work. What inspires some to learn, inspires others to steal. I am not impressed by anyones ability to juggle permutations of known works. The true go-getters actually invent new things using what they know of the basics and what they learned from their personal investigations. QUIT POLICING PEOPLE'S FREEDOM OF CHOICE BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THEIR WORK ON THE BASIS YOU COULDN'T LEARN ANY OTHER WAY.

No point in depriving the larger public your mod if you don't have to.

Are you for real? you ignored my post and still managed to act like what I expect to encounter. It is not forced DRM. DRM has bad protocol associated with it. Also you aren't entitled to these mods . Bethesda is , and the mod creator simply is doing something that you need to respect or simply walk away. But no one can actually rebel against a tool that is optional and could only be rejected out of fear by stubborn and misinformed people. I am the informant . We will all agree to test the tool quite a bit before we expect others to use our protected mods on a daily basis. edit: Again, people can trade the unprotected mod to their friend. Learn how you want. People who need to look at other's scripts, do so to see how a particular effect was achieved. Learn to script first.

Don't be that quick to invent lies. My tool does not suggest there will be a strain on your hardware. It is prejudice for you to suggest that has to be the case. The tool is not going to be one of those annoying anti-cheat softwares that most would label a malware. Resource-wise, if you can't bare the tiny and almost singular use of your processing power and memory at startup of my tool, you need to exit this conversation immediately and jack-hammer your five dollar netbook. For now I am only discussing the possibility of our ESP being protected. That includes Scripts and the basic modifications to the game. I bet you have examined other's mods. The only difference a tool like mine makes, is whose mod you can open up and learn from. If you can't be bothered to message the creator for an unprotected version, then so be it. Don't in turn, tell us that I and everyone else have to pass up on protecting our mods. There you have it. Even you know people will do anything to access others' mods . You know, like stirring up resentment. Did anyone see this skit in the HOUSE MD Episodes? If someone handed you a gun and you were burning at the stake, wouldn't you use it to kill yourself rather than prefer to burn slowly? Rational answer: I would turn the gun on them and demand to be taking down. This does not mean he will be taking down, but now there is at least some chance he can survive . I don't doubt you are a good guy baduk, but you have to stop this stock-holm syndrome bull.

I am an Experimental Modder. I have a lot of experience with working my concepts into rough representations. For-whatever reason, not many people are into programming. I think in respect to the Script Extender and the third-party-plugin support they provide, there is much untapped potential. I am willing to go as far as needed to make something work. I think many know the history of Reverse Engineers. I have attempted Reverse Engineering and it fascinate me. I have programmed long enough to pull something off like I described in my OP. I don't have an alternative active account. It is true I made this account to first post about protecting plugins. I typed everything in a word processor first if you are wondering how such a large post was made so quickly. If the people on the Nexus forums are to participate, then by your rule: Where would I be allowed to upload the test file(s)? Off-site links are probably discouraged, especially links to download sites. For testing I would upload the protected file and the program which can pass the data onto the game in a valid context. After that, I will see if others can protect their mods and pass them to their friends etc. @davidallen What prevents one of these people from uploading the unencrypted version? The unencrypted version would be put directly into memory of the game process when it calls for that plugin. The trick is to prevent people from intercepting that data and dumping it to their hard-disk. That task alone isn't quite noobie-friendly. As I hinted, the steps to actually dump the data won't be the same. The objective being no one can walk away with a tutorial or a program that can allow others to do the same thing to different plugin.

You say you re-wrote the KF updater? I don't doubt you. What I noticed after a while is the KF updater is an unnecessary step for custom rigs involving custom animations for a completely custom creature. At least for me I could not notice a difference. It was annoying as hell to use kf updater and then open up every outputted file to delete the string data or w/e it left. I think I also recall it would add tons more strings to the file itself.

Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas can be modded. These two games have a modding community. I want others to participate in testing a new tool I am planning. First, I will cover the extent to which this tool can be applied. The need for this tool in 1 to 1 ,or 1 to a select many, is assumed to be for them only to test. 1 to 1 Transfer. 1 to a Limited Many. 1 to The entire public. Before I get into the technical background of how this would operate, I want to summarize when we could of benefited from protection. An entity acquires your mod and violates your terms by doing one of the following, and then redistributes your mod. 1. Erasing your name. 2. Erasing your name and replacing it with theirs. 3. Leaving your name in, and appending theirs and simply re-distributing . 4 . Editing your mod to do less or more without your consent. 5. They redistribute their version(s) of your mod with a naming conflict which in turn confuses the community. 6. Because of their ignorance or malicious goals, they create, a ghastly unprofessional or faulty spin-off, which is pretty likely attributable to something ranging from 1 to 5. Once again, before I get into the technical background, I want you to focus on what can be done versus what has worked for you in the past. The following is a piece of Kai Hohiro's advice which was recently given in his interview. “...Modding is not a job, it won’t make you famous or wealthy, but it can bring you and many, many other people a lot of joy and you will make new friends along the way.” It is quite clear that is a perspective he is offering others to consider, so that they can be more humble. I How about this... Modding actually can land you a job. This is especially the case if your popularity catches the eye of someone who could get you employed. The chain of events varies, but what leads to the completion of your mod is pure effort. If you make it a point that you mod partially to gain new friends, then wealth is an unnecessary concern to begin with. We socialize, but embracing socialism in hopes to become better modders is vain. Part of why you may not get a job is relying on others. That said, please do not make the mistake of opposing my idea. Modders should be allowed to keep their projects playable and protected from people who have no conception of courtesy. If you are the type of person who enjoys the openness of unprotected mods, then power to you! But I don't care for free-loaders. Direct the curious noobs to GECK wiki or the numerous tutorials available in the community sites. Tell them to open up the scripts that came with the vanilla game. Or hand them your scripts directly because you are so care-free... Or is it, your scripts are in too many ways, pure unauthorized rips of other people's mods? If you want to argue that no one has an original script, then you surely don't need to see ours. Do it yourself. The people who reserve the right to confiscate the modding related work of others, are not you. And I will not be treated as if I am guilty before the proper authorities make a direct request for me to hand-over my work. NOW, before you start quoting to me: contracts, licenses, GECK agreements.. THE GENIUS PLAN The creator of his/her own mod, is responsible for blocking anyone's ability to monitor their computer as their plugin is protected. If someone does spy on the protector, it does not defeat the purpose of anything but the reliability of that single instance. After completion, the file will be ready to be passed out. Whoever wants to use the protected file will need a program . A key which was inserted into the protected file, is then read and used to translate the data for the game to load. Say someone were to capture or intercept the data as it was passed to the game so to export an unprotected edition of the data, well then, they are not a noob. Luckily, every plugin would be uniquely protected. Each act of protection will generate a new result even if we are talking about the same file(unprotected mod). Even better is that the hacker would have to crack their target manually, and differently each time.