Rangaros

Yeah, I was just addressing the dates thing, but I guess that's all Steam's fault anyway.

Well, I specifically said "vanilla" bsa. I know mods add their own bsa files, but I just mean the ones that come with the game. Or do any mods replace some vanilla bsa file with their own? Besides, if a mod uses bsa files, there won't ALSO be those same files loose outside in some folder. So it wouldn't matter anyway, since there's no loose files that could override the ones in the bsa. P.S: I actually have pretty much an unibrow.

Lol, well alright then. It just seems silly considering the game uses bsa for vanilla things, while modded things are outside those bsa files. So couldn't it simply identify them that way? It's not a vanilla bsa = takes priority. Dunno, just throwing ideas.

Well, actually I'm not even sure how it is in vanilla with the crosshair, I'm using DarnifiedUI and that gives you the option to show or hide the crosshair in the different cameras, so really dunno anymore what's vanilla like, lol. Also, did they really need to do that date thing? I mean come on, just tell the game to always prioritize using added files over the defaults in the bsa (still needing archive invalidation maybe). What's the need of telling it "but it also needs to be newer" =_= You two keep poking inside each other's noses and soon someone's gonna have fingerprints on their brain. Edit: Well I just realized it was Robert's esp that made it possible to have different tails for male and female Khajiit =_= So guess I'll go back to renaming the files with RT and using it. Least I'm still learning more things, lol.

Ooh, you're from Spain? I'm from Argentina :tongue: But I do that too, when I read/write or talk/hear English a lot it just sticks and I start even talking to myself in English. Then sometimes I realize I'm doing it and it gets really awkward, lol. And then half the time I keep doing it anyway cause I'm just so used to it. Well, esp's are still a mystery to me. Simply replacing files with others (or adding files to be used instead of the vanilla ones) is a simple concept, but just what the heck an esp (or even esm) does internally is still a mystery to me. I just settle on knowing that if something has an esp or esm it does more than simply replace files, and that esp or esm is telling the game to do something different than its normal behavior. Edit: And then I realize that in the time I wrote this I missed like 3 posts, cause I didn't notice the new page =_= "you punched cards", LOL that sounds even worse than what it was. Edit 2: Alright, time for something different. Now that my thirst for graphical customizing has been quenched, I'm moving onto the second most important item in my list. I'm looking for mods that make the 3rd person camera... less terrible. I'm a 3rd person player, what can I say. I don't find it more immersive to only see my character's arms, and I much rather see how cool he/she looks overall while doing... whatever he/she does. I already got one called ChaseCameraMod, which basically makes it so the 3rd person camera is less... nauseating. It removes all that weird swing delay and elasticity, and basically makes it behave like a normal game that was actually made to be played in 3rd person. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the crosshair is still aligned perfectly with your character's freaking head. Which means you can't see squat in front of you. So far I found three mods that change that, two in the same way. Ultimate 3rd Person Camera and Gears of War Camera seem to be the more appropriate ones for what I want, the thing is... they replace the skeleton.nif in the _1stperson folder. And I suppose that'd most likely break some of the stuff I've been doing. The third one is External Camera. This one's different, and it seems to just sort of use a vanity camera of sorts that you can move around. It's just a matter of putting it in an appropriate place to make it playable. The thing is it's pretty weird to actually play with this, basically it's like it detaches the camera from the character, so when you move the camera around it's... well it's hard to explain, but it's really different than how it normally works. It's like if you were playing another character in first person, which is behind yours. So when you move the the mouse, it moves the camera according to that other character's point of view. So all in all I was just wondering if you knew of some other option to have a nice and playable 3rd person camera. Otherwise I'll just try to get used to that last option, since the first two are obviously not gonna be compatible.

But then EVE doesn't have that footmale.dds, why doesn't it need it? I suppose the normal HGEC would replace male textures (with the same one as female), while EVE doesn't and the game would simply use the vanilla one? Yeah I think I'm just gonna "let the past be past" and stop thinking about why or how things worked differently before. I'll just apply the knowledge I have now to solving the problems I have now. Oh, on that note, I realized that Khajiit eye texture wasn't working cause the folder is mistakenly named "character" instead of "characters", lol. Makes me shiver thinking of the millions of folder and file names there's out there in mods, and how they all have to be absolutely exact to work.

Yeah, doing things manually lets you see exactly what is where, you learn more for sure. But my problem is then remembering exactly what I did in case I wanna backtrack it. Remember the footfemale.dds problem with OCO? I actually made it into a "mod" of sorts. Just a simple mod folder with the right directory inside and only those two dds files, and then installed it as any normal mod on top of the rest. Honestly I prefer to have stuff installed with a mod manager so I can see exactly all the steps I took, and I can also undo them easily by uninstalling them. Also I rename mod folders following my own naming convention, to know exactly what is what. I think a healthy balance is what I'd prefer. Doing some things manually to learn, but then using some mod manager to ease the work I still don't get why this didn't happen before, though. Back then when I was using the mods in their "standard" form (and not in their current Frankenstein take-what-I-want-from-each-and-make-my-own-folders), I actually had to disable the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp, and I didn't have to rename any files. Just installing things in order and not using that esp had it all working fine. I just dunno where the heck I was getting those footmale files then. Literally the ONLY Khajiit footmale.dds among every single mod folder I currently have, is one in the HGEC mod (ironically... why is there a male texture file on a HGEC mod?), and it actually is an exact copy of the footfemale.dds. So that would have been weird to see... It's like, the more I understand how to do things manually, the less I understand how things worked back then when I didn't.

Well, I still don't fully understand things, but somehow I got it all working fine, and even better than I thought. The MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp from Robert's, I actually still have it active and merged, and it doesn't seem to conflict with anything. Why? Well because I was trying stuff in little steps, so I actually used both Robert's esp and the EVE_KhajiitFix.esp along the way, to make things looked right while I tested, and then I would remove them later when I didn't need them anymore. The Khajiit fix I was able to disable it as soon as I installed OCO and then replaced the footfemale.dds manually, but somehow I still needed Robert's esp or male Khajiit textures would still be messed up. I noticed I ONLY have RTfootmale.dds and RTfootmale_n.dds in the male Khajiit folder, so dunno if that's normal or something got messed up. I'm gonna try and unmerge and disable Robert's esp, but I have a feeling I actually need it, since otherwise there's nothing telling the game to use the RT files. Edit: Yep, I do still need the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp to have proper male Khajiit textures. I also checked and I actually don't have ANY footmale.dds in a Khajiit folder in my whole Bain Installers folder, so I guess it's okay that I only have the RT ones, but then dunno what the heck was different before, when I actually had to disable the esp... This is so weird. Edit 2: And as I thought, if I manually rename the RT files and remove the RT part, now it actually works fine without Robert's esp. How the heck did this all happen that I have to manually do that? And I said better than I thought cause those little extra patches (for Khajiit tail and heads) were both different from I thought. I thought there was only one Khajiit tail texture for both genders, so it'd replace the male one too, but no, so now both male and female tails match their bodies. And I thought the head patch was for only female, but it turns out Khajiit head texture is only one for both genders, so now both heads look nicer too, lol, at least for my taste. So it was an unexpected win-win.

Oh, right, I forgot about that. Well I was gonna realize when I saw it anyway, lol. And thanks for that list, that's gonna be useful. Edit: Say, BAIN wizards are simply a way of picking subpackages, right? It's the same if I just pick them manually? Cause I noticed Robert's subpackages, unlike any other I've seen, actually overwrite stuff from each other, so I suppose that means the order in which they get installed matters (unless what they are overwriting is the same in all of them). So I'm a bit afraid of picking stuff manually and potentially mess something up because of that, figured the wizard knows what to do best, lol. Edit 2: Well, been testing thanks to the numbers you gave me, and I gotta say, the stock in HGEC Bouncing Stock Clothing Project is most definitelly not H-Cup. I tested with 4 different things that it changes (Lower Class 05, 06, 07 and 09), and while I do notice changes (using screenshots with identical zoom and angle), it's not really cup size. One or two seem to have very slightly bigger cup size (like from E to F at most), and most have other differences, like the sleeves being bigger and whatnot. But the actual cup size looks widely unchanged from EVE's E-Cup. So that's my experience with that, just to inform you really. I think I'll just be using base EVE stock (which has the bonus of having Seamless for it) with the few stuff from BBB H-cup Stock on top of it.

I see, so I just get a base texture replacer first and then whatever Seamless and OCO don't cover will fall back to that. Well I'm pretty covered so far, no immediate issues at sight, so I'll just keep working with this and maybe pester you some more later if something else comes up :tongue: Edit: Well that was quick, lol. Not really a problem so no big deal. But I was wondering if there's a way to know which files are which items in-game. Specifically, I wanted to know what all these lowerclass, middleclass and upperclass clothing meshes correspond to, since the folders are just called 01, 02, 03... I'd like to know if there's a way to know which folder contains which shirt/pants. Some chart somewhere or something, dunno. Edit 2: Right! So after hours of checking and comparing different body parts I finally made a selection. Now, I'd like to make a little check-up of the package order I have in mind, since there's a lot of little patches and whatnot. So my idea was: HGEC body meshes HGEC body textures HGEC E-Cup stock (I'm using the E-Cup stock from EVE as a base) Robert Male OCO v2 HGEC - OCO compatibility patch Robert - OCO compatibility patch Seamless OCO Seamless HGEC E-Cup stock (again, using EVE as a base) Seamless BBB HGEC E-Cup stock (same deal) HGEC H-Cup stock (so this replaces some of the E-Cup above, I don't think it's seamless but it shouldn't be a problem right? I mean, a problem for the install order) Seamless Robert Male Seamless MOO (haven't even tested this one yet) And finally patches I found to replace individual things: HGEC Khajiit Face for OCOv2, Exlorians Khajiit Tail for HGEC and OCO2 Khajiit High-res eye textures. I suppose these have to go last since they are meant to replace things. Is that alright? Any suggestions?

Wait, so the Seamless for Nuska OCO v2 actually has HGEC body textures too, not just head stuff? But I suppose I still need full body textures to use as a base, right? And then the Seamless just overwrites some stuff. Or does the Seamless actually already have all the body textures itself?

Hm, so I just realized that even though I didn't use EVE because it didn't have H-Cup, I can actually use the TEXTURES of EVE, right? I was being dumb again and thinking "but my HGEC texture has seams cause it's the old non-EVE one", and then I realized, again, that meshes and textures are separate. So essentially I could use an H-Cup HGEC body mesh, then add EVE HGEC body textures on top, right? What I'm still in doubt about, regarding the OCO-HGEC compatibility patch, is that I notice it overwrites textures from the previously installed HGEC body. And the Seamless pack for HGEC, like I said before, doesn't contain any textures. So ultimately, once everything is installed in order, there will be some HGEC texture files from the OCO-HGEC patch, right? Now my question is, are those seamless?

"Seamless is primarily meshes with vertices that align at the different body seams. That still left some texture induced seams, so Junkacc11 developed some HGEC body textures to further reduce the seams." But the Seamless Equipment for EVE HGEC only has meshes, no textures at all :blink: That's my issue, I figured I'd get seamless HGEC textures from there, but nope. Or are those somewhere else in another mod I didn't find yet? And yeah I've been checking inside the packages to see what each thing has, but I'm not yet quite sure what everything is supposed to do. Particularly what has me lost are the OCO compatibility patches. I just dunno exactly what they do or how they work. I noticed it shares files both with the base replacers and with the Seamless Equipment patches, so the install order among those three matters. Which probably means I HAVE to go: base replacers > OCO compatibility patches > Seamless patches. So the Seamless one win at the end. Right? Also, I was checking exactly what I needed to make a whole female body mesh (cept the head), and I think it's: femalefoot.nif femalehand.nif femalelowerbody.nif femaleupperbody.nif Anything I'm missing? All those files in the Bombshell folder are just different versions of them that I gotta rename, right? Like, "femaleupperbody_HB.nif" I would rename it to just "femaleupperbody.nif". I'm glad I found that txt file with all the naming codes, although there's a few I can't find there, but honestly I don't even care too much what most of those are. Edit: Say, I'm realizing something... I don't really see any textures for clothing and armor among all these. They only change meshes, and sometimes there's a few loose textures here and there but very rarely (EVE has a textures/menus and a textures/grhys folders, which I'm not touching cause I have no idea what they are). Does that mean they simply use vanilla textures on top of the modified meshes?

Hm, yeah with base HGEC body replacer I notice seams on the side of the arms and a little bit on the inside of the legs, on Khajiit at least, I suppose that's the texture itself then. Regarding my previous questions about combining mods and Seamless install order, so far I checked all the Seamless patches (EVE HGEC, Robert Male and OCO) and none have any overlapping files with each other, so I'd assume it's safe to install those in any order, right? Now I just need to figure out if it's safe to combine body + equipment + BBB + Seamless, for a single replacer (HGEC or Robert's or OCO), all together in single "mod" and install it, and then move onto the next replacer and do the same. Basically I'd like to manually pre-apply the Seamless and BBB patches onto the "raw" replacer mods, so then I'd only have one mod for HGEC, one for Robert's and one for OCO, and no need to overwrite mod installations with other mod installations. Edit: Oh, but I don't really know just what the OCO compatibility patches do, so I dunno how that'd affect the install order... Agh this is all so complicated. Edit 2: Meh I think I'm just overcomplicating things by trying to combine stuff. Forget it if it's too complicated. That's probably something I should do once I finally know exactly what everything does. Also, I was thinking. The SetBody meshes are seamless, right? But the HGEC textures I'm using aren't, so it'd be kinda wasted I think. Now what I was wondering is if I can combine the SetBody HGEC meshes, with EVE textures, which both have seamless versions. The problem is that EVE doesn't have H-Cup, but then I realized, do textures even have cup size? Or does any texture for HGEC work with any body from HGEC? I noticed that the SetBody mod just adapts whatever texture you're using to the new body when you cast the spell, but dunno if that's a special feature that the SetBody mod has or what. Edit 3: Alright never freaking mind, I just realized some Seamless patches don't even have textures, while some do. How the heck do they make things seamless without textures?

Ooh, yeah, duh I'm stupid. It's because all the mods now come with both meshes and textures, I tend to forget they are separate things. So the problem would be when combining clothing mesh+texture of one mod, with skin texture of another, something like that? So the UV mapping basically determines where the mesh has the seams then? Like, depending on where it was cut to make it flat, those cuts will become the seams when put back into 3d-shape.