Rangaros

Yeah, I was just addressing the dates thing, but I guess that's all Steam's fault anyway.

Well, I specifically said "vanilla" bsa. I know mods add their own bsa files, but I just mean the ones that come with the game. Or do any mods replace some vanilla bsa file with their own? Besides, if a mod uses bsa files, there won't ALSO be those same files loose outside in some folder. So it wouldn't matter anyway, since there's no loose files that could override the ones in the bsa. P.S: I actually have pretty much an unibrow.

Lol, well alright then. It just seems silly considering the game uses bsa for vanilla things, while modded things are outside those bsa files. So couldn't it simply identify them that way? It's not a vanilla bsa = takes priority. Dunno, just throwing ideas.

Well, actually I'm not even sure how it is in vanilla with the crosshair, I'm using DarnifiedUI and that gives you the option to show or hide the crosshair in the different cameras, so really dunno anymore what's vanilla like, lol. Also, did they really need to do that date thing? I mean come on, just tell the game to always prioritize using added files over the defaults in the bsa (still needing archive invalidation maybe). What's the need of telling it "but it also needs to be newer" =_= You two keep poking inside each other's noses and soon someone's gonna have fingerprints on their brain. Edit: Well I just realized it was Robert's esp that made it possible to have different tails for male and female Khajiit =_= So guess I'll go back to renaming the files with RT and using it. Least I'm still learning more things, lol.

Ooh, you're from Spain? I'm from Argentina :tongue: But I do that too, when I read/write or talk/hear English a lot it just sticks and I start even talking to myself in English. Then sometimes I realize I'm doing it and it gets really awkward, lol. And then half the time I keep doing it anyway cause I'm just so used to it. Well, esp's are still a mystery to me. Simply replacing files with others (or adding files to be used instead of the vanilla ones) is a simple concept, but just what the heck an esp (or even esm) does internally is still a mystery to me. I just settle on knowing that if something has an esp or esm it does more than simply replace files, and that esp or esm is telling the game to do something different than its normal behavior. Edit: And then I realize that in the time I wrote this I missed like 3 posts, cause I didn't notice the new page =_= "you punched cards", LOL that sounds even worse than what it was. Edit 2: Alright, time for something different. Now that my thirst for graphical customizing has been quenched, I'm moving onto the second most important item in my list. I'm looking for mods that make the 3rd person camera... less terrible. I'm a 3rd person player, what can I say. I don't find it more immersive to only see my character's arms, and I much rather see how cool he/she looks overall while doing... whatever he/she does. I already got one called ChaseCameraMod, which basically makes it so the 3rd person camera is less... nauseating. It removes all that weird swing delay and elasticity, and basically makes it behave like a normal game that was actually made to be played in 3rd person. That said, it doesn't change the fact that the crosshair is still aligned perfectly with your character's freaking head. Which means you can't see squat in front of you. So far I found three mods that change that, two in the same way. Ultimate 3rd Person Camera and Gears of War Camera seem to be the more appropriate ones for what I want, the thing is... they replace the skeleton.nif in the _1stperson folder. And I suppose that'd most likely break some of the stuff I've been doing. The third one is External Camera. This one's different, and it seems to just sort of use a vanity camera of sorts that you can move around. It's just a matter of putting it in an appropriate place to make it playable. The thing is it's pretty weird to actually play with this, basically it's like it detaches the camera from the character, so when you move the camera around it's... well it's hard to explain, but it's really different than how it normally works. It's like if you were playing another character in first person, which is behind yours. So when you move the the mouse, it moves the camera according to that other character's point of view. So all in all I was just wondering if you knew of some other option to have a nice and playable 3rd person camera. Otherwise I'll just try to get used to that last option, since the first two are obviously not gonna be compatible.

But then EVE doesn't have that footmale.dds, why doesn't it need it? I suppose the normal HGEC would replace male textures (with the same one as female), while EVE doesn't and the game would simply use the vanilla one? Yeah I think I'm just gonna "let the past be past" and stop thinking about why or how things worked differently before. I'll just apply the knowledge I have now to solving the problems I have now. Oh, on that note, I realized that Khajiit eye texture wasn't working cause the folder is mistakenly named "character" instead of "characters", lol. Makes me shiver thinking of the millions of folder and file names there's out there in mods, and how they all have to be absolutely exact to work.

Yeah, doing things manually lets you see exactly what is where, you learn more for sure. But my problem is then remembering exactly what I did in case I wanna backtrack it. Remember the footfemale.dds problem with OCO? I actually made it into a "mod" of sorts. Just a simple mod folder with the right directory inside and only those two dds files, and then installed it as any normal mod on top of the rest. Honestly I prefer to have stuff installed with a mod manager so I can see exactly all the steps I took, and I can also undo them easily by uninstalling them. Also I rename mod folders following my own naming convention, to know exactly what is what. I think a healthy balance is what I'd prefer. Doing some things manually to learn, but then using some mod manager to ease the work I still don't get why this didn't happen before, though. Back then when I was using the mods in their "standard" form (and not in their current Frankenstein take-what-I-want-from-each-and-make-my-own-folders), I actually had to disable the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp, and I didn't have to rename any files. Just installing things in order and not using that esp had it all working fine. I just dunno where the heck I was getting those footmale files then. Literally the ONLY Khajiit footmale.dds among every single mod folder I currently have, is one in the HGEC mod (ironically... why is there a male texture file on a HGEC mod?), and it actually is an exact copy of the footfemale.dds. So that would have been weird to see... It's like, the more I understand how to do things manually, the less I understand how things worked back then when I didn't.

Well, I still don't fully understand things, but somehow I got it all working fine, and even better than I thought. The MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp from Robert's, I actually still have it active and merged, and it doesn't seem to conflict with anything. Why? Well because I was trying stuff in little steps, so I actually used both Robert's esp and the EVE_KhajiitFix.esp along the way, to make things looked right while I tested, and then I would remove them later when I didn't need them anymore. The Khajiit fix I was able to disable it as soon as I installed OCO and then replaced the footfemale.dds manually, but somehow I still needed Robert's esp or male Khajiit textures would still be messed up. I noticed I ONLY have RTfootmale.dds and RTfootmale_n.dds in the male Khajiit folder, so dunno if that's normal or something got messed up. I'm gonna try and unmerge and disable Robert's esp, but I have a feeling I actually need it, since otherwise there's nothing telling the game to use the RT files. Edit: Yep, I do still need the MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp to have proper male Khajiit textures. I also checked and I actually don't have ANY footmale.dds in a Khajiit folder in my whole Bain Installers folder, so I guess it's okay that I only have the RT ones, but then dunno what the heck was different before, when I actually had to disable the esp... This is so weird. Edit 2: And as I thought, if I manually rename the RT files and remove the RT part, now it actually works fine without Robert's esp. How the heck did this all happen that I have to manually do that? And I said better than I thought cause those little extra patches (for Khajiit tail and heads) were both different from I thought. I thought there was only one Khajiit tail texture for both genders, so it'd replace the male one too, but no, so now both male and female tails match their bodies. And I thought the head patch was for only female, but it turns out Khajiit head texture is only one for both genders, so now both heads look nicer too, lol, at least for my taste. So it was an unexpected win-win.

Oh, right, I forgot about that. Well I was gonna realize when I saw it anyway, lol. And thanks for that list, that's gonna be useful. Edit: Say, BAIN wizards are simply a way of picking subpackages, right? It's the same if I just pick them manually? Cause I noticed Robert's subpackages, unlike any other I've seen, actually overwrite stuff from each other, so I suppose that means the order in which they get installed matters (unless what they are overwriting is the same in all of them). So I'm a bit afraid of picking stuff manually and potentially mess something up because of that, figured the wizard knows what to do best, lol. Edit 2: Well, been testing thanks to the numbers you gave me, and I gotta say, the stock in HGEC Bouncing Stock Clothing Project is most definitelly not H-Cup. I tested with 4 different things that it changes (Lower Class 05, 06, 07 and 09), and while I do notice changes (using screenshots with identical zoom and angle), it's not really cup size. One or two seem to have very slightly bigger cup size (like from E to F at most), and most have other differences, like the sleeves being bigger and whatnot. But the actual cup size looks widely unchanged from EVE's E-Cup. So that's my experience with that, just to inform you really. I think I'll just be using base EVE stock (which has the bonus of having Seamless for it) with the few stuff from BBB H-cup Stock on top of it.

I see, so I just get a base texture replacer first and then whatever Seamless and OCO don't cover will fall back to that. Well I'm pretty covered so far, no immediate issues at sight, so I'll just keep working with this and maybe pester you some more later if something else comes up :tongue: Edit: Well that was quick, lol. Not really a problem so no big deal. But I was wondering if there's a way to know which files are which items in-game. Specifically, I wanted to know what all these lowerclass, middleclass and upperclass clothing meshes correspond to, since the folders are just called 01, 02, 03... I'd like to know if there's a way to know which folder contains which shirt/pants. Some chart somewhere or something, dunno. Edit 2: Right! So after hours of checking and comparing different body parts I finally made a selection. Now, I'd like to make a little check-up of the package order I have in mind, since there's a lot of little patches and whatnot. So my idea was: HGEC body meshes HGEC body textures HGEC E-Cup stock (I'm using the E-Cup stock from EVE as a base) Robert Male OCO v2 HGEC - OCO compatibility patch Robert - OCO compatibility patch Seamless OCO Seamless HGEC E-Cup stock (again, using EVE as a base) Seamless BBB HGEC E-Cup stock (same deal) HGEC H-Cup stock (so this replaces some of the E-Cup above, I don't think it's seamless but it shouldn't be a problem right? I mean, a problem for the install order) Seamless Robert Male Seamless MOO (haven't even tested this one yet) And finally patches I found to replace individual things: HGEC Khajiit Face for OCOv2, Exlorians Khajiit Tail for HGEC and OCO2 Khajiit High-res eye textures. I suppose these have to go last since they are meant to replace things. Is that alright? Any suggestions?

Wait, so the Seamless for Nuska OCO v2 actually has HGEC body textures too, not just head stuff? But I suppose I still need full body textures to use as a base, right? And then the Seamless just overwrites some stuff. Or does the Seamless actually already have all the body textures itself?

Hm, so I just realized that even though I didn't use EVE because it didn't have H-Cup, I can actually use the TEXTURES of EVE, right? I was being dumb again and thinking "but my HGEC texture has seams cause it's the old non-EVE one", and then I realized, again, that meshes and textures are separate. So essentially I could use an H-Cup HGEC body mesh, then add EVE HGEC body textures on top, right? What I'm still in doubt about, regarding the OCO-HGEC compatibility patch, is that I notice it overwrites textures from the previously installed HGEC body. And the Seamless pack for HGEC, like I said before, doesn't contain any textures. So ultimately, once everything is installed in order, there will be some HGEC texture files from the OCO-HGEC patch, right? Now my question is, are those seamless?

"Seamless is primarily meshes with vertices that align at the different body seams. That still left some texture induced seams, so Junkacc11 developed some HGEC body textures to further reduce the seams." But the Seamless Equipment for EVE HGEC only has meshes, no textures at all :blink: That's my issue, I figured I'd get seamless HGEC textures from there, but nope. Or are those somewhere else in another mod I didn't find yet? And yeah I've been checking inside the packages to see what each thing has, but I'm not yet quite sure what everything is supposed to do. Particularly what has me lost are the OCO compatibility patches. I just dunno exactly what they do or how they work. I noticed it shares files both with the base replacers and with the Seamless Equipment patches, so the install order among those three matters. Which probably means I HAVE to go: base replacers > OCO compatibility patches > Seamless patches. So the Seamless one win at the end. Right? Also, I was checking exactly what I needed to make a whole female body mesh (cept the head), and I think it's: femalefoot.nif femalehand.nif femalelowerbody.nif femaleupperbody.nif Anything I'm missing? All those files in the Bombshell folder are just different versions of them that I gotta rename, right? Like, "femaleupperbody_HB.nif" I would rename it to just "femaleupperbody.nif". I'm glad I found that txt file with all the naming codes, although there's a few I can't find there, but honestly I don't even care too much what most of those are. Edit: Say, I'm realizing something... I don't really see any textures for clothing and armor among all these. They only change meshes, and sometimes there's a few loose textures here and there but very rarely (EVE has a textures/menus and a textures/grhys folders, which I'm not touching cause I have no idea what they are). Does that mean they simply use vanilla textures on top of the modified meshes?

Hm, yeah with base HGEC body replacer I notice seams on the side of the arms and a little bit on the inside of the legs, on Khajiit at least, I suppose that's the texture itself then. Regarding my previous questions about combining mods and Seamless install order, so far I checked all the Seamless patches (EVE HGEC, Robert Male and OCO) and none have any overlapping files with each other, so I'd assume it's safe to install those in any order, right? Now I just need to figure out if it's safe to combine body + equipment + BBB + Seamless, for a single replacer (HGEC or Robert's or OCO), all together in single "mod" and install it, and then move onto the next replacer and do the same. Basically I'd like to manually pre-apply the Seamless and BBB patches onto the "raw" replacer mods, so then I'd only have one mod for HGEC, one for Robert's and one for OCO, and no need to overwrite mod installations with other mod installations. Edit: Oh, but I don't really know just what the OCO compatibility patches do, so I dunno how that'd affect the install order... Agh this is all so complicated. Edit 2: Meh I think I'm just overcomplicating things by trying to combine stuff. Forget it if it's too complicated. That's probably something I should do once I finally know exactly what everything does. Also, I was thinking. The SetBody meshes are seamless, right? But the HGEC textures I'm using aren't, so it'd be kinda wasted I think. Now what I was wondering is if I can combine the SetBody HGEC meshes, with EVE textures, which both have seamless versions. The problem is that EVE doesn't have H-Cup, but then I realized, do textures even have cup size? Or does any texture for HGEC work with any body from HGEC? I noticed that the SetBody mod just adapts whatever texture you're using to the new body when you cast the spell, but dunno if that's a special feature that the SetBody mod has or what. Edit 3: Alright never freaking mind, I just realized some Seamless patches don't even have textures, while some do. How the heck do they make things seamless without textures?

Ooh, yeah, duh I'm stupid. It's because all the mods now come with both meshes and textures, I tend to forget they are separate things. So the problem would be when combining clothing mesh+texture of one mod, with skin texture of another, something like that? So the UV mapping basically determines where the mesh has the seams then? Like, depending on where it was cut to make it flat, those cuts will become the seams when put back into 3d-shape.

Alright, that finally clears out a lot of doubts. So basically the OCO compatibility with HGEC wasn't quite finished because Nuska kinda disappeared. About the exposed body parts, honestly I'm either misunderstanding or... Cause at first I understood it that way you're saying now: that each armor or clothing part REPLACES the WHOLE body part. It's like a Lego thing or something. If you want a new shirt you gotta take off the whole upper body and put a new one that has that shirt. BUT then from what Striker just said, I understood than when clothing has exposed skin, it actually takes that skin from somewhere else, NOT from the clothing files. And that's why mixing different body and clothing types will mess things up. If the clothing replaced the WHOLE part then why would the exposed skin look wrong? I mean, maybe your arms wouldn't match with your legs, and you'll have blue arms and red legs, but that's a different part altogether, and individually, legs whole and arms whole should look fine, and match the clothing of that part. So now I'm not quite sure which way it is. Or maybe I'm just not getting it cause I don't really know what UV mapping is :P Also, one little detail, does upper body include arms (but not hands)?

Alright, so it was as I thought. But then I was right about this: if you install HGEC, then OCO and then the HGEC-OCO compatibility patch, you WILL have messed up female Khajiit textures because there's a foot texture trying to cover the whole body. And you NEED to manually replace the footfemale.dds with something else. So how it that called "compatible", and why does nowhere in the instructions mention that extra step? Also, I don't get something. What IS that foot texture you're overwriting? OCO is supposedly for heads, right? So what is it, a vanilla version of the foot texture? I researched a bit and found what that buttocks folder was, so yeah, I didn't include it in the install. Don't worry, I got it working fine. So what you said before was that I can check inside the SetBody folder and find the body that I liked, and take it out to use it as a replacer? I see, so it's not like armor and clothing are a whole new body part, the exposed skin is actually taken from somewhere else. So what if one were to mix HGEC with DMRA? Like, HGEC body and DMRA clothing, or the other way around. From what I read DMRA is like a different version of HGEC or something, would that make them compatible for mixing up? Just curious, really. Regarding your "installed" folders. I pretty much do that on the Bash Installers folder. I download the mods to a personal folder and check it out, then copy an install-ready version on the Bash Installers folder. Lastly, not sure if that was meant to be a reply to it, but I didn't exactly get it if it was, so I'll ask again. Is the combining of mods I did fine? Will it mess things up because it essentially changes "install order"? I mean, in the install order back then you said I should install HGEC body and clothing first, then Robert's, then OCO, then all the compatibility stuff, then Seamless for OCO and only THEN seamless and BBB for HGEC clothing. What I'm doing by merging is installing HGEC clothing, seamless and BBB, all together. So I can't really install clothing near the beginning and seamless/BBB at the end anymore. On that regard, does the order I install Seamless patches matter? Cause I noticed for bodies and clothing you went HGEC > Robert's > OCO, but then for Seamless you went OCO > HGEC > Robert's. Was that very specific order for a reason? All I know is that I should install the base OCO after any body replacers, but the rest sounds like it would be inter-exchangeable, dunno.

Yeah, I got that part about some mods having the whole body in the feet texture. Actually in the folder preview (thanks to SageThumbs, I imagine) I can see the image right there, looking more or less like a body, lol. And it's pretty different when I compare it to the OCO one (which just looks like a blur but I assume it's feet, lol). "When you installed the OCO v2 HGEC texture compatibility patch it overwrote the vanilla OCO v2 female foot texture (which only covered the foot) with an HGEC compatible footfemale.dds that covers the entire body except for the hands." Actually, that's the thing. The OCO-HGEC compatibility patch doesn't even HAVE a footfemale.dds for Khajiit, so when all is installed, the last one to prevail is still the original OCO one, with only feet texture. And in the end the female Khajiit body is a mess, dunno exactly what's happening there. Maybe it's trying to use vanilla textures (since the HGEC ones got overwritten... by feet) and they get all messed up, I really dunno, but that's past the point where the problem occurs anyway. Edit: I might have misunderstood though, not too clear on that. You just meant the compatibility patch doesn't have a Khajiit-specific footfemale.dds? And it just uses some generic all-race footfemale.dds or something like that? I mean, first you said it installed a footfemale.dds, which it does, but only for a few races (or at least it only has a few race folders with that). But on the next sentence you say it doesn't include any textures for Khajiit female. So that kinda confused me... Well, if you say those are H-Cup too, all the better I suppose. I just read the description and it pretty much said otherwise, but who knows why. I'll just try it out. So far I tested the other one successfully, so I'll just add any extra ones that it's missing. I only used HGEC bodies from that mod I linked so far, if you're talking about the SetBody stuff I was just starting to check it out, actually. Took a while to figure out how to install it, and still think I didn't get it completely. Not sure if I was meant to install the core and data as separate mods, or merge them into one. I suppose it should make no difference. What I did was basically combine the data folders of both parts, and then install that and the esp. Seemed to work fine, but the textures kinda got messed up. I'm not sure if I was supposed to install it ON TOP of the normal HGEC body, so I just installed alone instead, with vanilla bodies. I think that was the wrong part cause apparently SetBody has pretty much no textures, only meshes. I'll try installing HGEC and then SetBody on top. Edit 2: Yeah, alright, I was supposed to install HGEC first to have textures, lol. Although, I'm not sure how it works, but I do notice the textures changing slightly with different bodies. Maybe it's just cause they get stretched or compressed to match the body, dunno. Edit 3: Say, I was wondering something. I already tried using different cup sizes of body and clothing/armor, and it worked fine, but those are pretty much the same thing with just a slight cup difference. But what would happen if you mix one body replacer with a different clothing/armor replacer? Like, dunno, mixing a Robert's female body with a DMRA clothing/armor? Would it simply change from one body type to the other when equipping and removing clothes, or would it actually cause some clipping or something, if the bodies are different enough? I've heard how clothing and armor sorta "becomes" the body when you equip it, but to what extent? Does each piece of armor only replace a corresponding body part? Does the body "underneath" have no relevance at all? I dunno, it just seems that the body underneath does matter even with stuff equipped over it. I remember that I'd get seamless necks for the H-Cup HGEC body when using the E-Cup Seamless clothing/armor replacer, for example, or something along those lines. And that kinda made no sense to me, lol. Gonna test this further... Edit 4: (last one I swear) So I managed to make my own mod folder in which I merged: EVE HGEC E-Cup equipment EVE HGEC normal lower body equipment EVE HGEC E-Cup Seamless equipment EVE HGEC Seamless normal lower body equipment EVE HGEC E-CUp Seamless BBB equipment Basically I took all my choices of EVE HGEC equipment, pasted the Seamless versions on top, and then pasted the Seamless BBB versions on top of that. And it seems to be working fine. But I wonder, is this a good idea? I noticed you always suggest installing Seamless Equipment stuff at the end for some reason. So would having it already integrated with the equipment replacers be a bad idea? I was thinking of doing the same with Robert's. I kinda like making things simpler and more efficient when possible, and this would reduce the amount of extra stuff pointlessly overwriting each other when I install mod over mod. (of course I'm then gonna overwrite that merged mod I made with whatever H-Cup equipment I find... but hey at least the base will be neatly organized)

I swear I replied something, then checked half an hour later and there was nothing... Maybe I just left it loading and alt-tabbed and then it failed, who knows. So what I wanted to say was, if that's the case then I don't understand why OCO has a compatibility patch for HGEC, if it actually isn't fully compatible EVEN with the compatibility patch applied. Apparently HGEC Khajiit and OCO will not work together even with the compatibility patch applied, and who knows, maybe there's other things. So why even say it's compatible? I mean, at least make a proper explanation about how to make them work together or something, cause the current instructions there just don't make it work properly.

I don't think it's the first case because otherwise what is OCO's footfemale.dds supposed to do then? If you HAVE to always overwrite it with something else, why does it exist? Obviously it was designed to work with something, just dunno with what. And not sure the bashed patch is doing anything wrong really, since the Khajiit fix wasn't even related to it anymore, but the part about reverting to vanilla textures makes sense, not sure why though. Damn, you're 5 hours ahead of me (or 19 behind? Perspective! not really) Edit: *points* There, there! I just realized, OCO by default isn't really compatible with HGEC, that's why there's the a compatibility patch, right? BUT I just checked and the OCO-HGEC compatibility patch doesn't even HAVE a Khajiit footfemale.dds (in fact it only has Dark Elf, Imperial and Orc ones, and then other non-playable races). So how could it POSSIBLY work right? First, OCO is overwritting a file by HGEC, and then the compatibility patch doesn't have a new version to actually make em compatible. AND the instructions specifically say that the order is: body replacer > OCO > compatibility patch.

Well that's helpful, I'll study it a bit. Regarding the other issue, you see, I have the problem when I DON'T have the Khajiit fix. The fix actually... well, fixes it. It's like this: HGEC female > Robert male with esp disabled and NOT merged > OCO = Khajiit female texture was messed up. The bashed patch only affects mods with esp's as far as I know, so none of the above should be affected by it. Now if on top of that I added any new footfemale.dds (for example, the one in the Khajiit fix), that texture would replace the broken one and "fix" the problem. And by fix I mean it just cover it up, basically, with a new texture.

The problem is that as much as by now I know a decent amount about installing and making mods work together, I have little idea about specific files of the game and what each one is or does. I might have an idea from seeing names, but I never really know for sure. I do check the packages every time, but mostly to see what kind of organization it has. Some just give you an OMOD, some give you a simple data folder so it can be installed with anything, some have multiple BAIN folders so you gotta choose inside Wrye Bash, but sometimes you actually gotta rearrange things manually into a data folder, so I never really trust any mod to be "ready to install" unless I see the folder structure inside. But as much as knowing just what individual file is... not quite. Also, yeah the only "practical" problem I have is getting female Khajiit textures I like. But the "theoretical" problem I have (meaning in practice it might not affect anything, but I'd love to know how it works) is why was I getting messed up female Khajiit textures with the previous setup. Pretty much the exact mods and order that Striker instructed in page 8, yet I had to add an extra "fix" on top of it for female Khajiit. I don't think it should be the case. Edit: You know, I've been checking one by one all the details as I install things, to see just what each thing does. And yeah, now I can see seams in HGEC bodies and not just the neck, so alright, I understand what Seamless Equipment does. But I'm checking Robert's Male and it's just... perfect. Besides the neck of course, I really can't find any seams. So is Seamless for Robert's supposed to just affect the neck then? I gotta say I'm pretty impressed with that body replacer.

Well I mean like uninstalling everything, then reinstalling it without OCO. Besides, I'm using Wrye Bash so if I uninstall something it actually restores any files that it had overwritten, as far as I know. From what I understand, I should potentially be able uninstall anything that only replaces things, and it SHOULDN'T break anything, it should simply go back to the files it was using before it. But just in case I'm doing things neatly. Only Seamless for OCO says it doesn't include beast races, Seamless for EVE HGEC doesn't say anything about that not including those :blink: It doesn't? Honestly I had no clue, it really doesn't say that. So pretty much NOTHING addresses beast race seams other than specific single-race mods?

Well, honestly I think I haven't been clear on what I've been doing or something. I already understand the concept of most of what you've been explaining, and actually have been installing some things manually just to try different things and speed up the process (since Wrye Bash is really slow to load). Don't worry about the Khajiit fix, I stopped using that long ago, unmerged it and all. I already tried the textures you mentioned, and yeah they work fine. My problem is that I'd actually like to have the HGEC body texture, it's the one I like the most, BUT the basic one has pretty noticeable seams. Now there's the Seamless for that, so that should solve it. But the problem with that is that, for some reason, having OCO also installed, its footfemale.dds messes up the female Khajiit texture, for some reason. I can go and manually replace it with the original HGEC one, but again, it has seams. And the Seamless pack doesn't seem to actually HAVE a footfemale.dds. I honestly just don't know how Seamless fixes up the female Khajiit HGEC body without using a footfemale.dds. So, I guess to put it simply, I'd like to have a more or less seamless HGEC version of the Khajiit female body, together with OCO. And somehow I can't manage to do that. I'll try and uninstall OCO and all the patches, see what happens.

Hm, but that HGEC Bouncing Stock Project actually says "standard normal", and he specifically says how "nor would everybody be walking around with A nor H cup breasts". Sounds like it's not actually for H-Cup but rather something middle ground. And I already have EVE for that anyway. About SetBody, that'd be to replace my current body with a seamless similar one then, right? And I'd still need HGEC Better Bouncing Boobs on top? Wouldn't there be a problem if the body isn't exactly the same? I really dunno how that mod BBB-ifies the body exactly, given it actually needs a base body mod first. Honestly I'm not sure if I wanna bother with that. Like I said I don't even notice seams most of the time. The most obvious ones are in the neck (since you don't normally go looking down into people's feet, or specifically their hands or somethinig), and I have pretty much all of that covered. One interesting thing I saw though is the "beast body" legs, that's kinda cool, but I imagine it's gonna be a nightmare if I gotta make new lower bodies match with upper ones... The only slight problem I DO have is with female Khajiit, and I think that's because of the fix I need, since it actually does contain textures (which were optional, but apparently I need them to fix the issue). I guess they don't match too well. I'd really like to figure out why I need that fix. It's just like the problem I had at first because of file dates. Without it there's huge seams in arms, legs and the back, and overall it looks like someone took the texture and twisted it around the body or something, lol. Edit: Well, I've been testing around and apparently all my problem is with my textures/characters/khajiit/female/footfemale.dds. That Khajiit fix replaces it, but also adds an esp, but I realized I don't even need the esp, or any of the other textures. Just replacing footfemale.dds fixes my problem. I also tried with Luna's, and it also fixes the problem, since it also has a footfemale.dds (and the rest of the textures to match, so it's a better option I suppose). Not a fan of the specific textures Luna's has, but at least it all looks nice and matching. The previous footfemale.dds that they are all replacing is from OCO, and at the same time that one's overwriting the one from HGEC. Interestingly, the original one from HGEC looks like the ones I'm using to "fix" what OCO changes; they all have a full body texture, while OCO apparently only has actual feet in it. For some reason that's causing an issue. Edit 2: Yeah, I tried replacing the OCO footfemale.dds with the original from HGEC, and that also fixes the problem. So dunno why but for some reason OCO's system of NOT having the entire body on the foot texture, messes things up. I don't think it should be like that, dunno what's causing it. The problem with this solution is that it's overriding the Seamless for female Khajiit. And while before I said I normally don't notice seams too much, now I understand why: most races have relatively smooth skin, so it's not as noticeable. But I just realized I do kinda have a problem with seams specifically in Khajiit and possibly Argonian, since their textures are very uneven and any seam is quite noticeable. So I dunno if it's specifically because of OCO's footfemale.dds, or simply that there's ANOTHER problem with previous body textures, and OCO simply doesn't cover it up, like other mods with a footfemale.dds do. Edit 3: I tried using the OCO footfemale.dds and adding extra upper and lower body textures (legfemale and upperbodyfemale, I just realized I don't have any like that on almost any race, guess they just use the foot texture for the whole body), to see if the problem was there, but no, it's still messed up and it looks like the extra textures are either getting covered by the mess, or just not being used. I'm quire frankly at a loss here. I have a few alternatives to "cover it up", but I really can't seem to figure out what is the core of the problem.