axonis

No I was not referring to our discussion by email. It's a question regarding fonts I've worked on whereas the fonts in our discussion were not. I'm sorry for opening a new thread, but you locked the question and I really need an answer.

I'd like to ask a question on how Nexusmods perceives copyright on font modifications. Let's assume that I have converted a font to a bitmap format using a standard process. Obviously I cannot copyright that. But then I apply custom binary edits and texture cleanups. Do you think that I cannot claim ownership on such modifications ?

1) What about mods that were uploaded before you changed the ToS a few years ago ? Do you feel they are still bound to your new ToS and that they cannot be deleted by request of their creators, despite the original agreement ? 2) Your new ToS state that if users don't agree to them, they must delete their account. Does that mean their content is also deleted ? If not, what exactly does deleting an account achieve ?

@Brabbit, so you are bothered by ModDrop hosting a few mods without permission (and deleting them when authors requested) but it's "excusable" when the same thing is done by Nexusmods at a massive scale. OK.

That sounds like the reality of another universe. Reality in our planet is: ModDrop gives authors the right to delete their work. ModDB gives authors the right to delete their work. YouTube gives authors the right to delete their work. Vimeo gives authors the right to delete their work. Fictionaut gives authors the right to delete their work. Twitter gives authors the right to delete their work.The right of authors to delete their work was always "a thing".

Nexusmods cannot be compared to Bethesda. The latter created TES and a unique gaming modification ecosystem whereas the former is just a moderated file hosting service. Bethesda can charge anything they want for derivatives of their property whereas Nexusmods has 0 IP assets.

Whoever said this, is spreading misinformation. I had confirmed with a Wabbajack modpack author that can you use it without paying anything to anyone. Plus Wabbajack works fine with ModDB which by the way doesn't make it harder for users to download even huge files. Really a mod author does a great service to their users by switching to a user-friendly mod hosting service.

Promiscuous.....hmmmm. Axonis, what's on your mind, buddy....? :dance: Sinitar is infamous for insisting that Skyrim LE is objectively superior to SE.... I really don't know anything about it. I left the Skyrim scene before SE became defacto. Actually I run from the Skyrim scene to avoid the tomatoes thrown at me from the angry Requiem crowd :laugh: I'm just saying that I had a talk with Sinitar and I found him to be a nice guy. The same goes for Wabbajack modpack authors, I found them to be nice girls & guys too -- I recently discussed the mod updates issue with them and they were actually great. I believe mod authors and modpack maintainers can and will find a middle ground. Wabbajack works perfectly with files outside of Nexusmods which is great for competition.

Sinitar Gaming is the author of some popular. modding guides that some consider to be too promiscuous. I personally don't share the view, having discussed with the guy: he was ready to accept and correct an error about my mod.

@Brabbit1987, Which assumes that users read suggestions ? If that would be the case, then there wouldn't be an issue. 9 out of 10 of my support requests are solved by the "Please follow the installation instructions at the Readme file" even though this may take a lot of time to conclude. There's a huge difference between a local and a public file. For example, this page contains an old version of my mod. I'll ask you to take a look at the comments section, especially the post made at 16 September 2020, 9:49PM to understand the problems it's giving me. I literally had to go to Discord to find the source of this advice and explain to them why they had to stop it. Point is, I just want to mod in my own terms, which is why I sometimes need to exercise whatever options Copyright affords me. Relinquishing those rights would be a stupid move for me, and it would work badly for the modding scene in the long run. Those who are trying to force authors to do so, aren't working for the modding scene's favor either.

@LeelooMinai, great post :happy:

@Brabbit1987, Nexus isn't a part of the community, it's just a hosting business. The community I'm in (Fallout New Vegas), works greatly together and Nexusmods is irrelevant. Assuming it bankrupts today, so of us would have to relocate their files, and tomorrow we'd keep on being happy together. Here. I had to spend my own time because a user was following deleterious advice about an old version of my mod. It's not that easy because users can often be oblivious to the fact they are using an old version. (Sadly, some users are well aware of this fact and they still choose to hide it, hoping its irrelevant) ModDrop offering a deal to Elianora to let them retain her mods at ModDrop. And of course, www.steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent

Which is why is preferable to discuss and present our own point of view. Plus, he's not a troll and he's not nearly as bad as some Redditors who actively try to grief mod authors.

I still think he's eager to listen and also his sentiment is echoed deafeningly at certain Reddit and Discord channels. Given this forum is public, we can at least have some exposure of our own side of view.

So in most cases you suggest to "contact Nexus, and let them know of the circumstances". I have a better solution: simply find a more convenient mod hosting service so that you can delete old crap without asking questions. You can't force people to forget, but you can force Internet services to help you with that. And who is asking you to see "how" ? That's not your decision to make. There are known examples of services that had offered deals to mod authors. Yes, mod authors do give out licenses. Seriously, I wonder why are you even arguing on things that are so easily verifiable, with such a conviction. Also, "Nexus donates to mod authors" is a pretty broad statement. If they are charging for $2 premium and donate $1 to authors of their choice, that's $1 profit that was made in the name of "donating to mod authors". Nexusmods is a for-profit business. Donations therefore can only be seen as a for-profit endeavor and only an auditing service (not Robin Scott's word) can tell otherwise. No because it's archived already ? But again, you'd say "contact Nexusmods, see if they can help you" to which I've already suggested that it's just easier to host files to a service that sensibly allows basic functionality.

Hopefully by elsewhere you aren't referring to modding but Nexusmods.

I definitely missed a lot but your example is an undeniable argument on its own.

I didn't say that in that context. You should probably read the entire thing. The point isn't your original context. The point is that even your own reference is using an example that allows authors to delete their content, like everyone does with a single exception. Your demands for "reasons" is therefore baseless, but in the spirit of this ongoing thread, let me give you some: I may have discovered a security issue in my mod. Many games run in privileged space for various reasons, and mods can have access to that space. I may have included something embarrassing in my current version, such as comments I forgot to delete. I have the right to be forgotten, and that includes my mod. I may don't want to provide old versions of my mod because I want to support new developments in the modding scene and remove the option for supporting old stuff. I may choose to license my mod to a hosting service that gives me a greater donation share to what my current hosting service does. I may have accidentally included copyrighted content without permission from the original authors. I have seen many authors uploading a file, and re-uploading a few moments later. Something clearly went wrong. There's absolutely no reason not to delete such mistakes.

@Brabbit1987, You say that it's "practically no different then when you go on youtube" but it's actually very different because YouTube allows authors to delete their videos.

This subforum is actually much better than GMAD because it's indexable by search engines and provides a discussion for both mod authors and users. For example, here's the opinion of a user that it's well echoed at the /r/skyrimmods subreddit: This is based on a /r/skyrimmods favorite theory, that mods are expendable and easily replaceable. So when mods get deleted, they should be quickly replaced. It's a theory that cannot be immediately dismissed, but so far it cannot be proved because 1) Mod piracy exists because there are no alternatives 2) We'd at least expect that someone at /r/skyrimmods would replicate some of Arthmoor's work, considering the hate of this particular group against Arthmoor. Again nobody does. They'd rather post torrents of his work. Setting this unproven theory aside, I'd like to point out that it's troubling that this particular group is the staunchest proponent of the latest Nexusmods changes. It used to be that users against mod author's rights were also against Nexusmods, now it's actually the reverse. It remains to be seen how Nexusmods will be dealing with the scene in the months to come. I guess Robin Scott will raise his prices, to increase the rewards for loyal mod authors. As long as there's no alternative (and I remember how much he worked against paid modding alternatives), it's going to be a strong incentive for mod authors to stay here. This is an acceptable reality but make no mistake: Once paid modding becomes an alternative again (and no amount of hypocrisy could oppose it anymore) those who are sick of the abuse of their rights will turn to paid modding. And users will be happy to know exactly how much of their money goes to the author instead of an un-audited rewards scheme. As for that /r/skyrimmods user, we can at least have the satisfaction that after losing the arguments and declaring defeat: He'll be paying his Nexus dues for convenience.

Look @ my profile. I think that should explain it :wink: You mean... I'd say that you might wish to check if there are explicit permissions granted by the original authors instead of those Nexus checkboxes. Explicit permissions always take precedence. You might also consider asking mod authors for a permission to host your derivative work outside of Nexusmods. In my experience, 99% of mod authors will grant you permission.

@OldSaltyCroc, great post, thanks. @HadToRegister, that was very funny :laugh:

@maxmanatarms & Ac3s, Done and apologies for those quotes.

Example: when I update a file, the old version gets deleted if I wish to. Why ? Because I don't want to support old stuff. See for example, how a mature mod hosting service is handling file deletions: See ? They provide a valid reason for not deleting files but they leave the final decision to me. And I do decide to delete that file because I want to support a new, fresh, better mod and encourage the mod author to keep working on it to know his work is appreciated. Life is really so simple when dealing with mature people who can respect others. So when you delete the mod off the website Does it get deleted off the person that downloaded its computer too? What are you saying ? Clearly that's not a question, but I fail to see your point.

Example: when I update a file, the old version gets deleted if I wish to. Why ? Because I don't want to support old stuff. See for example, how a mature mod hosting service is handling file deletions: See ? They provide a valid reason for not deleting files but they leave the final decision to me. And I do decide to delete that file because I want to support a new, fresh, better mod and encourage the mod author to keep working on it to know his work is appreciated. Life is really so simple when dealing with mature people who can respect others.