Sakorona
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Posts posted by Sakorona
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I feel this ties into a point I kinda get: People don't think the Nexus has 3/mnth or 50/site lifetime value. Or they might not have ever felt it.
I feel the problem here is really this (from an interesting write up on .. ha, making more freemium conversions:)
In November 2008, we told our “free private” users that we were discontinuing free service, and that in the future they would need to buy a paying subscription. We were bombarded with disappointed, melodramatic, vituperative, ANGRY comments, claiming that we were doing something evil, sneaky, and fundamentally unfair. It didn't matter that we had worked nights and weekends for the previous two years to provide free services. Nobody thanked us for that, or for the free public services we continued to provide, or for the four months of additional free services that we provided for the transition, or for the low prices going forward ($13 per team on average), or the simplified export for those who wanted to take their stuff and go home. They had lost something, and they were angry.
People are always more unhappy to losing something, than they were happy about getting it in the first place. There is a word for this: Loss aversion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion
and, incidentally, http://www.charleshudson.net/thoughts-on-free-powered-business-models-and-why-time-beats-features
I think that's actually a good thought - the longer something is free, the more nags and not-free is introduced, the more it sounds wrong. (Although the conclusion of you should use free trials over free is.. hm. I'm not sure that works for all web startups, honestly.)
Personally, I'm not adverse to premium conversions because the Nexus needs revenue to stay afloat. By the same token, it's not really something I think I could advise on value vs reward. Some people just can't pledge, free users bring word of mouth and traffic, etc. etc. etc.
But my point in this thread is : you really shouldn't be surprised that people are upset over this. They have reasons to be. The decision to put a 'rapidgator' style nag screen as well as increase ads without any warning (Even now, there's no post about it!) was handled poorly, even if like me you can kinda see the point while not agreeing with it.
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https://blog.asmartbear.com/freemium.html
I'll quote the relevant bit:
A really good conversion rate for free-to-paid is 4%, like Dropbox. Awesome for them, but normal rates are more like 1%, and that’s if users are reasonably active.
I surveyed a dozen small startups who don’t use freemium, and on average they see a 1% conversion rate from web traffic to a (real, not “free”) purchase. [uPDATE: Andy Brice has much more data which supports this simple assumption] Even assuming you can get a higher website-to-signup rate for a freemium offering (you’d better, right?), you only get paid on on a few percent of those, which means your total conversion rate of web visitors to actual money is 20-100x worse than other startups.
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18 million total members, but an active month to month user base of maybe, 5-5.2 million members. Please don't use total usercount when it's a useless metric for month to month.
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Oh man, nitpicking over definitions, my favorite argument (I'm also pretty sure this qualifies, if I'm *very honest with you*, but I don't really care to get into an argument with that.)
. No, I was more thinking of the register screen which makes it not obvious how to sign up for free (and was responding to the general attitude instead of just the download screen)
"I wasn't wrong! You're just nitpicking, and also I was thinking of a completely different thing that I wasn't replying to and didn't mention."
wow lol
yeah, i think that's enough for me. i'm out
I mean, I'll cop to not being clear at all. I won't apologize for my dislike of semantic arguments to avoid the point. You *are* just nitpicking if you think that these aren't at all confusing. (Maybe dark patterns wasn't the best term? Regardless.)
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Oh man, nitpicking over definitions, my favorite argument (I'm also pretty sure this qualifies, if I'm *very honest with you*, but I don't really care to get into an argument with that.)
. No, I was more thinking of the register screen which makes it not obvious how to sign up for free (and was responding to the general attitude instead of just the download screen)
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the biggest insult of all is that Dark One didn't even address us, the users, before hand nor after this change, it's like we don't matter
Yeah, I'd have appreciated something out of them about this by now.
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The change to the way the website is handled was jarring. After the big Stardew Update, suddenly being shamed for not being a premium member with every updated mod I download is... horrible, honestly. It's making me less willing to update mods now, and is concerning for the mod I'm making- if others are less likely to download mods due to this change, what would be the point in uploading one?
Dark addressed the change in the Mod Authors Discord a few days ago. The rate at which users are upgrading to Premium membership has increased significantly.
Don't believe the lies and distortions by forever free users; the change has so far proven to be a massive boon to the Nexus.
Well, looks like the Nexus is making enough money now that they can turn this off. I know they won't, and well, congrats on 5% freemimum conversions? 3%? I don't care which.
The rate has gone up because people are being fooled into thinking they need premium. We've already had several new mod users in our discord very confused and thought they had to buy it. And not all of us are free users.
don't have the disposable income to spend on a premium membership to a site where the payment doesnt go to the content creators.
Um...
First of all, if you can't afford to spend US$2.99 for a month of Premium membership (which includes the Supporter role for a lifetime), playing games and downloading mods aren't going to lead you to the promised land.
Second, the Nexus shares a percentage of Premium membership revenue with mod authors across the network in the form of Donation Points (DP).
89.9% of the payouts to mod authors is sourced directly from Nexus revenue. The 10.1% remainder comes from the Mod Author Donation Fund.
So if they can pay out 101k, why do they need money? No, seriously. (If you're thought is: it's a business, they exist to make money, I'll remind you that CAN is not SHOULD.)
The rate has gone up because people are being fooled into thinking they need premium. We've already had several new mod users in our discord very confused and thought they had to buy it. And not all of us are free users.
If after reading the download screen people are under the impression they NEED Premium, then I suggest they take a class in reading comprehension.
Nowhere does it imply that premium is Necessary, it only compares the benefits and drawbacks of both.
All I see are people doing Olympic Level Mental Gymnastics to come up with reasons why they should never "have to" pay.
https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/01/wtf-is-dark-pattern-design/
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Nexusmods is a for-profit entity, it's not a charity.
They have to pay for their staff, taxes, bills, and scalability and these things do not run cheapily. Money doesn't simply grow on trees.
Sadly, if you are a regular user then you're using their platform without giving anything in return to the site. You could argue that you're contributing with mods and goodwill, but at the end of the day that won't and doesn't keep the lights on at night. It's money. And in that respect, they have their own right in how they conduct their business in order to keep it all afloat. Again, I must emphasize money doesn't simply grow on tree. You can argue that you've enabled and perhaps even clicked on the ads, however there's only so much revenue you'll be able to generate as a repeated site visitor (ad-revenue generates most its money from the new visitors and even then, adblock being prevalent as it is, it's pretty little).
At the end of the day, this isn't a shaming issue, it's the lack of funding or Nexusmods addressing their budgeting issue.
Okay, so I wanted to address these in a go. The problem with the ad is that you're basically going "It's for-profit, so it has the right to do this." Sure, it does. The entire point of this thread is people going "Maybe you shouldn't.". And sure, I guess I get the point that I don't have to view this as a community site. And I don't think I'd have chosen the choice to go "we're just a business". But hey, you do you.
As I've stated, they (Nexusmods) have their right in how they conduct their business in order to keep it all afloat. It's in their own interest, and I hope yours as well, to keep the their company (and site by extension) operational. Nexusmods haven't cut off access to mods so it's quite pitiful for this cry of injustice. And look, if you don't care one way or another about the well being of the site operation then that's fine too-- just don't complain about the changes they make, at the end of the day, it's not you who is footing the bills for all of this.
If every site owner followed the sort of mind set you and so many others like you have proposed that being treating business as a charity, then more than likely those sites would go belly up in due time. Please, just stop with the entitlement, it's getting old and fast.
Holy extrapolation, Batman!
Anyway, this is a great example of my argument (can-should), and I usually duck out when people start strawmanning what I mean, so I'm .. just going to drop it.
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Assuming my low ball estimates hold: 94.4k per month is a yearly income of 1.132 *million* before the lump sump shots and supporter buys and what little ad revenue they get. Are you *trying to tell me that the Nexus has expenses in excess of 1.1 million!?*
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Some people, for example, might only have 30 spare dollars a month after bills.
Premium is US$2.99 for a month. $30 > $2.99. When Premium expires, you'll be a Supporter for life.
But if you can't afford Premium, that's fine. Nobody's being forced to buy Premium. If you can't afford the items in a store, do you complain to the store manager that you can't afford anything? No, you just don't buy anything. Affordability is the most ridiculous argument I've seen here.
"Free" today never means free. You always pay something.
- Want free social networking? You pay with your information.
- Want free access to a media outlet? You pay with your attention.
- Want free file sharing? You pay with your time.
Free users have had a good run of the Nexus for more than a decade, but it's not sustainable. Nexus has grown significantly over the years and yet, as of April 2019, only 0.7% of the Nexus' 18 million users were paying customers. Something had to be done to course correct. Now, free users pay with their time. This is good for everyone.
Uh-huh. Man, I didn't realize I had to treat everything as a transactional resource. Good to know that the Nexus thinks of itself as a business, and not a community.
In any case, the problem here can be seen as two fold- making an appeal that one should support the site as a matter of morality ignores the fact that people may not view things the way you do, and the second issue is that people may not agree that they received 50 of value from the site. The costs of the site are irrelevant when customers make a purchasing decision - they look at their value.
.. And that ignores the fact you may not wish for people to be making purely transactional decisions when they use a community website.
I don't mean to pick on you in particular, but I've seen several people make similar comments in this thread, and I'd like to address those sentiments.
The Nexus offers its essential services free-of-charge; it always has and hopefully always will. It gives mod authors a place to share the fruits of their labors with an international audience of eager recipients in an atmosphere where their intellectual property will be respected and supported, and a knowledgeable community will be there to help support would-be users who experience issues trying to get the mods to work for them. It offers a massive catalog of game enhancements of every kind imaginable, tools to manage them, and tools, examples, and support for those trying to create their first mods. It hosts forums where people can discuss a wide variety of topics - some gaming and technology related, some not - and maintains a staff of moderators who show up day after day to tidy up the place.
For some, the Nexus serves as pseudo cloud storage for the mods they use. It's stability and longevity means that users who typically employ hundreds of mods can delete them to temporarily free up disk space, and retrieve them again as desired.
They charge nothing for any of this, yet they have expenses to cover. Expenses covered by those who voluntarily contribute to keep the doors open, lights on, and mods freely flowing. They also monitor monetary exchanges between authors and end-users, discouraging commission offers while providing the means for users to freely contribute to authors. Overall, they've taken a number of steps to keep mods freely available to all.
For my part, I purchase very few new games, preferring to instead re-play games already in my library, and Nexus mods greatly enhance my ability to do that. Instead of buying a new game this year, I chose to purchase the premium membership here, as I want this site to continue to thrive.
It's not about the premium features. The increased download speed means nothing to me, and I still have a link at the top of the page inviting me to Buy Premium. I use Firefox and block ads on most sites. As far as I'm concerned, the premium features afforded to those who contribute are really just minimal minor perks, token appreciation so the Nexus can say they give something to users who contribute.
I'd also like to say how very grateful I am to those members who have built and supported the site long before I came along. And I'm especially glad the Nexus has never resorted to fund-raising campaigns or slapped annoying banners on every page begging for donations. Instead, they (mostly quietly) offer premium memberships, which comes across to me as much more professional and business-like.
(Note: I can't comment on the current state of pushing premium memberships, as I haven't downloaded anything recently.)
All that said, to those trying to justify their "reasoning" for not contributing - just don't. If you can afford games and the hardware to play them on, you can probably toss some money at the Nexus. Yes, there are exceptions. Some people have internet and sophisticated hardware for work. Some people have banking / credit / identity / general payment issues. Thing is, most mods are luxury additions to luxury goods. They aren't food, clothing, shelter, or health care. First world problems, eh? If you - or the dictates of your situation - have determined not to contribute cash up to this point, just own it. The Nexus will serve you mods, tools, and support regardless.
TLDR: The point of supporting this site with actual cash is not the premium features offered, but keeping it open for business.
Nexusmods is a for-profit entity, it's not a charity.
They have to pay for their staff, taxes, bills, and scalability and these things do not run cheapily. Money doesn't simply grow on trees.
Sadly, if you are a regular user then you're using their platform without giving anything in return to the site. You could argue that you're contributing with mods and goodwill, but at the end of the day that won't and doesn't keep the lights on at night. It's money. And in that respect, they have their own right in how they conduct their business in order to keep it all afloat. Again, I must emphasize money doesn't simply grow on tree. You can argue that you've enabled and perhaps even clicked on the ads, however there's only so much revenue you'll be able to generate as a repeated site visitor (ad-revenue generates most its money from the new visitors and even then, adblock being prevalent as it is, it's pretty little).
At the end of the day, this isn't a shaming issue, it's the lack of funding or Nexusmods addressing their budgeting issue.
Okay, so I wanted to address these in a go. The problem with the ad is that you're basically going "It's for-profit, so it has the right to do this." Sure, it does. The entire point of this thread is people going "Maybe you shouldn't.". And sure, I guess I get the point that I don't have to view this as a community site. And I don't think I'd have chosen the choice to go "we're just a business". But hey, you do you.
Yes, but the way the change was implemented has directly added an extra step to an existing process.
Oh, no! One more button!? Whatever shall we do! THE SKY IS LITERALLY FALLING. :rolleyes:
And you could also argue that it is advertising, which I as a supporter have paid to not see.
You could also argue that "ad-free" applies only to third-party ads in the ad rotation.
Premium memberships have always been promoted well enough in the integrated banners
As of April 2019, only 0.7% of the Nexus' 18 million users have Premium accounts.
1. You should look up UI/UX stuff. Adding extra clicks is usually a bad idea.
2. I'm pretty sure it just says "ad-free" not "third party ad-free"
3. Assuming that all 18 million users are active (I feel this is a foolish assumption), let's see what that yields : 18 mil * .007 is 126000 users. A quarter of that is still 94.5k a month. (and in this scenario, assuming 90% of the rest paid for their premium in a lump sum of roughly 60 dollars, given sale prices: that's 5.67 mil in cash. I'm REALLY worried why the Nexus needs more money than that aside from "they're a business, they want more money."
However, when I looked around for "freemium" conversions, I saw that 1-3% is considered the standard. So... let's return to the calculations. From the 2018 end of site, we get this interesting nugget:
"Nexus Mods averaged 4,996,242 unique users each month in 2018, up from 4,582,755 in 2017, representing a 9% increase in users."
126k premium members in 5.1mil (added some more to give a margin) is .. 2.47%, well within average freemium conversion rates.
Imagine that
The point of this breakdown? If Nexus is unable to stay afloat at this monetization rate (note this didn't even factor in monthly supporter microtransactions) .. uh.. words. Words need to be had. In any case, you can see now my doubt as to why this premium screen is needed.
1. I just think it's disheartening that a site built around a passion we all share, be it using or making mods, can be so easily changed to favor users based on whether they pay or not.
Of course I am owed nothing by this site, nor have any grounds to demand anything, especially as a free user myself. I understand it costs the owners money for servers and that the staff should be paid for the time and effort they put into maintaining and updating the site for all of us. If I have come across as entitled or complaining for the sake of it in my previous posts I do apologize as that wasn't the intention, I am just genuinely concerned by the connotations behind the change.
2. I just wonder what has caused the sudden and abrupt push for users to upgrade to premium, if not money. These last few months of my time on the site, first with the banners and now the download redirect, has been the only real push on premium memberships I have seen in my several years here but with no reason why. Yet again I understand it is the choice and right of the owners to do whatever they want, but when a site that is usually so open and engaging and asking feedback from all of its users stops doing so and implements a change that impacts the majority of us it is concerning.
And if it is money related issues, why didn't the owners feel as though they could call upon the community and ask for donations rather than a change like this, which clearly does favor paying users and which has sadly caused a clear divide in the user base just by reading the replies in this post alone. I, and I am sure the majority of other users of this site, premium or not, would most certainly help the site, and more important the community that uses it, in a time of need.
Like I said before, it is disheartening, even scary, that such a large part of the modding community, and certainly the part that introduced me to the hobby, could be changed like this for no obvious reason. Of course in the grand scheme of the site this is a small change, but it just feels odd that I myself was asked for feedback in the site redesign and was kept updated with news posts throughout that whole process and made to feel like part of the community with absolutely no mention of the fact that I am a free member, to be met with a change like this that is now suddenly reminding me that I am just that. And no whilst I am definitely not being forced to pay, it certainly seems as though the suggestion is there if I want to go back to the same experience I have had for years prior.
It also makes me think that if changes like this can occur, and that anybody who is speaking out is constantly being told to either pay up, deal with it, leave etc., then that in the future access to these sites could just as easily be taken away from non-paying users completely and without warning, in the same way this change has come about, and that those who have paid simply wouldn't care, even though in reality we are all just as equally invested in what is arguably the largest community of enthusiasts in the modding hobby as a whole.
3. I would hate for this to be the beginning of the end of the very inclusive community and hobby that I have had the pleasure of being a part of for years here on the Nexus.
1. A passion you don't care enough to pay for.
2. Well if my math is correct, (Somebody correct it if I'm wrong, math is not my strong suit) as firendubh has said 0.7% of Nexus' 18 million users have Premium accounts, that means that 126,000 people actually PAY to support this site while 17,874,000 just use the site for free.
Right there is your answer as to WHY NExus has made it more obvious that the other 17,874,000 of you should help out the site so it can stay online.
17.8 million free users uses an awful lot of bandwidth, and 126,000 users paying for the site, isn't enough to keep it online.
So, all of you keep arguing about WHY you don't have to pay, while this site is drained away bu all of the people taking the site for granted.
3. But, you're going to stay a non-paying member right, as you said in your other post, right?
I don't pay for a lot of my passions. I shouldn't be expected to. Not everything you do in life should be reduced to the monetary value of the transaction. This is a terrible mindset.
AS FOR THE REST, see my above breakdown.
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So far we've learned that...
1. People can afford to pay for an internet connection on a monthly basis
2. People can afford to pay for all of the $60 - $70 dollar games they want to mod
3. Those same People somehow cannot afford to pay $2 to stop seeing ads FOREVER, or cannot afford a premium membership, or cannot afford a one-time lifetime fee of $75, but want to dictate how the site they're using for free should accommodate them for free.
Complete definition of Entitlement right there.
Just because you can afford A and B does not mean you can afford C. A game is my entire "fun" budget for a month, for example, and after doing some budgeting, it's actually a fun budget for more than a month.
Some people, for example, might only have 30 spare dollars a month after bills. That's just the first-level analysis of the problems with that statement, ignoring a larger issue.
Oi, mate, as a Premium user, get your head out of your rear end. Just because you dropped a lump sum on this site does not permit you to be on a high horse.
Again, stressing this, AS A PREMIUM USER, what they're doing to non-premium users is pretty bad. I bought Premium because I respected the site, because I've used it for a long time and they didn't have any of this "HEY BUY PREMIUM" waving in my face.
If I knew that, a few months later, they were going to force non-premium users to wait and make it more obnoxious, I would've never given them my money in the first place.
What exactly is so terrible?
As it has been explained NUMEROUS times now, (that people keep ignoring) the countdown is to prevent people from SCRAPING THE SITE.
I.E. downloading ALL THE MODS, and posting them elsewhere
If you read the Forum Warnings, Bans section, you'd see that it is a problem.
I'm not entirely sure a 5-second countdown stops scrapper bots. :thinking:
In any case, the problem here can be seen as two fold- making an appeal that one should support the site as a matter of morality ignores the fact that people may not view things the way you do, and the second issue is that people may not agree that they received 50 of value from the site. The costs of the site are irrelevant when customers make a purchasing decision - they look at their value.
.. And that ignores the fact you may not wish for people to be making purely transactional decisions when they use a community website.
(Also: Also why do you want to look and act like RapidGator?!)
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Speaking as a mod author, I.. can't really say I approve of anything that makes downloading mods more annoying.
Speaking as a person, I appreciate that the Nexus has bills, but a MEGA/ad-fly style page makes me almost want to not download.
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You may have better luck going to the stardew valley discord and asking. However, my guess is you need to run verify file integrity, because your furniture.xnb is what's causing it to crash on load.
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That is a known issue with Stardew Valley 1.2.29. Press Alt-Enter twice.
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Because it's been moved out of the program files (hence why StringsFromCSFiles) into .xnbs for translations in 1.2
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In response to post #24745044. #24745229, #24745464, #24745559, #24745634, #24745674, #24745769, #24746064, #24746434, #24746794, #24746974, #24747029, #24747269, #24750919 are all replies on the same post.@Uranium-235oldnotweak wrote:jfisha wrote: Did you not read any comments that were in support? Did those get deleted or something?ChizFoShiz wrote: The trouble is the users out number the authors by such an incredible ratio that we have no voice, no one is able to speak up for any of us against a tidal wave of entitlement like what we just witnessed this weekend.
If you want to *really* feel disgusted go over to reddit and read all the circle jerking "we won" nonsense.
It's absolutely shameful.chaotix14 wrote: Most of those were just afraid their mods and the future modding community would go and hide behind a paywall. Also it didn't help that they launched it on steam, the problems with early access, greenlight, the open sewer gates policy on the store and even the steam workshop itself as a service, did not fill the community with a lot of faith in what this would turn out to be. And reading about the 24 hour return policy didn't exactly fill many with faith. I mean it basically was a statement that either said: "we don't understand mods. And we don't understand that you might not have the time to immediately go play the game." or "We don't care that you are left with broken stuff."BadYeti wrote: You haven't seen entitled users until you accept their money. :Ptheblueshark wrote: should have been a 1 week trial..some mods wont show that its s#*! till you're half way there..
@ oldnotweak some people that did not want the paywall is due to the cut modders were having. though we were outnumbered by people that wanted it for free forever.diyeath wrote: @ ChizFoShiz entitlement works both ways. For nearly 2 decades we've had a community that had no issues with creating content without guaranteed monetary incentive.
Money absolutely corrupts thought process and this is a perfect case study of that social phenomina.ChizFoShiz wrote: @ diyeath "A perfect case study" in what way? Modders get the option to be compensated and then get run off the internet? Yeah, those guys were so corrupt. Give me a freaking break.
And as for entitlement working both ways your example only illustrates the entitlement of the userbase more so, just because something has been free for the longest time, doesn't mean it has to forever, expecting that it must is pretty entitled I'd say.icanhazmodspls wrote: @ ChizFoShiz. Yes i am entitled to some consumer rights. Firstly if i pay for a mod you can't guarantee it won't break my game as mods are inherently unstable with the game and especially with each other. Given that the majority of users use multiple mods that is rather important don't you think?
Second if i get a refund i want it to be in real money not steam monopoly money. These are basic rights as consumer so yes entitlement works both ways.
Lastly paid mods could only work if there was some form of quality control from steam, an area in which they are notoriously lacking in.diyeath wrote: @ ChizFoShiz corrupting thought process is different than being corrupt. Very, very different. The only ones I'd truly consider corrupt are the ones who took down free mods to host them for money on steam. People like chesko are not corrupt in any visible way.
I'm basing my opinions off of emperical data collected over nearly 2 decades. That system worked fine and very, very few people complained. In fact the only one of note that I can remember is Locaster. So when you say that bringing up the fact that entitelment goes both ways shows even more entitlement I can't help but laugh because you're showing more entitlement. Its a gigantic fallicious loop perpetuated by ignoring that we had a system which worked for a very long period of time before this whole steam fiasco.
I'm not against paid mods as much as I'm against paid mods that mod authors couldn't possibly hope to support enough to justify the price tag. We all know that singular mod authors can't support the mods properly and that's fine, we're talking about potentially tens of thousands of users vs one poor guy trying to deal with all the bug reports and whatnot. But without the proper support it's not right to sell your product and we can see this in the quality of the paid mods, most of them were horrific quality with only a very select few being of good quality.
I think that you should sit down and consider all the moving pieces and chronological order of events in order to form a reasonable opinion.
I personally am in favor of a more agressive approach to donations, I really don't mind if there's a big fat "donation" button at the top of the description, blinking away in obnoxious seizure-enducing strobe effects because there's no implied warranty involved (which is a legal thing which modders would be subjecting themselves to and thus opening a can of legal worms).Uranium - 235 wrote: "The trouble is the users out number the authors by such an incredible ratio that we have no voice, no one is able to speak up for any of us against a tidal wave of entitlement like what we just witnessed this weekend.
If you want to *really* feel disgusted go over to reddit and read all the circle jerking "we won" nonsense."
The only entitlement here is coming from you. Mod-makers are volunteers. They have ALWAYS been volunteers. Volunteering by definition means you shouldn't expect fiscal rewards for your work. Nothing about this relationship changed when you personally decided to make mods... unless you somehow feel that YOUR mods are worth more than those made by people whose creations predate yours?
You people knew the score when you started making mods. If you weren't okay with working without payment, then you shouldn't have made mods.
The fact that you're calling mod-users 'entitled'... man, maybe it's for the best that a lot of you are leaving. Good to see everyone show their true colors here. Nobody is making you make mods. If you think we OWE you for your work, then you are in the wrong business. I don't OWE you anything any more than the homeless OWE the people who volunteer to work at a soup kitchen.ChizFoShiz wrote: @icanhazmodspls Never said anything about you not having rights as a consumer, for some of you I'm sure it IS a genuine concern over refund policies and content policing, but for the majority opinion it only takes a 30 second scan down any other outlet of discussion for this game to see the popular opinion is that mods and modders aren't worth it.
I've said this elsewhere but I'll say it again here, the system could have been changed based on feedback, refund policies can be altered, revenue distribution can be renegotiated, content policing can be provided and proven over time.
Lastly, of course I can't guarantee a plugin will work in tandem with any other plugins you want to run, no more so than Bethesda can guarantee your game will run once you throw 150 mods into it.
With a refund policy that could potentially have been changed to an acceptable system in your eyes though, would it not be a platform worth having?diyeath wrote: @ ChizFoShiz now you need to consider implied warrany as it's a legal term which is applied when you charge money for a product.icanhazmodspls wrote: @ChizFoShiz
I agree with you that paid mods have the potential to improve quality and are therefore worth a shot. However i have very little trust in Valve to set this up. Their vision of a digital marketplace is very libertarian and chaotic IMO.
Futhermore Valve's trackrecord regarding regulation isn't exactly good, for example Greenlight and broken games entering the store.
You do have a point that perhaps mod authors aren't responsible for a guarantee that mods are compatible with each other.
I think a solution would be a model similar to TF2 and CS. For example using polling Valve and or Bethesda can get a sense which mods are popular and or used together in the community. They can then get together with those authors to produce and release a separate DLC similar to Dragonborn or Dawnguard. The Pro's are IMO:
-sharing of resources between authors continues.
-proper Q & A resulting in consumer confidence and compatibility with other mods.
-since it's released as a separate game i have more options of buying it outside of steam/workshop.
-better pricing (release price for say 15 euros) and better bang for buck.
-better career opportunities for authors.
A concrete example: SkyRe+Wyrmtooth+Immersive Armors+"Random House Mod".
Anyway just some thoughts..
It's awfully presumptuous of you to tell mod-makers what they are. Especially from someone who isn't even a modder.
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In response to post #24748294. #24748909, #24748959, #24749014, #24749054, #24749074, #24749089, #24749114, #24749169, #24749269, #24749289, #24749409, #24749439, #24749529, #24749564, #24749574, #24749674, #24749709, #24749814, #24749884, #24749889, #24749954, #24750114, #24750204, #24750249, #24750254, #24750279, #24750544, #24750564 are all replies on the same post.Yes, how DARE YOU demand at least acknowledgement of your work! [/sarcasm]mannygt wrote:user134 wrote: Or maybe those people missed/forgot to hit the button/don't think it matters.Stevensonzilla wrote: That's a fair point.
From my side, I can tell you that I have downloaded a lot of mods that I simply haven't gotten around to trying out yet. Gray Cowl, for instance, is sitting around on my drive waiting for my next playthrough. If that gives the impression that I'm unappreciative, it really is unintentional.
I do, however, have to admit that I'm guilty. There are mods that I have used and enjoyed and just never gotten around to endorsing or commenting on. I have no excuse other than laziness.Timarot wrote: While I entirely agree that there should be more endorcements - unique downloads does not traslate into "people who love mod". Its more like "amoumt of unique ip-pc combination to which mod was downloaded"mcguffin wrote: Exactly.
Mod users act actually, for a vast majority, like a *consumer*, but without paying the price. Some of them also are angry when updates take time, or when they have issues.
I have seen few people saying that they have 200 mods installed, and because of that they could not afford to pay them.
but when you look at their profile, you see very little amount of comments or endorsements.
Most of people only leech content without caring of anything.Seren4XX wrote: Those numbers alone are an accomplishment and ode to the modders who put out those mods. Endorsing is forgotten easily for a number of reasons that don't have anything to do with being grateful or not.Ottemis wrote: It's a fact there are parts of this and any modding community in it's users that have zero real concept of the amount of work that goes into modding and think rather loosely or little at all on the matter, even taking an entitled stance rather than an appreciative one.
While it's 'normal' to forget to endorse or comment on mods you've truly enjoyed, and easy to think modders do it for themselves and out of their own volition that does not negate that modders do thrive on positive feedback from the community and more appreciation and healthy views on what modding entails certainly wouldn't hurt the modding community as a whole.zzjay wrote: many dont even know what an endosement is..theyre not into the community,and just like to download mods for their gameshinji72 wrote: That's a very comment. And before the introductions of the pop ups on Nexus (pointing you to the unendorsed mods) the percentage were far far lower.Kioma wrote: Extremely good point, mannygt. Kudos.
I'll admit that I'm guilty of this. I have a tendency to download a mod, forget it's there, get surprised when I load the game and find that I did in fact install it, and then play the game for several hours solid and simply forget to go back to the mod page and endorse it. Not an excuse, just a fact, but one I'm intending to correct. As I type this I'm gearing up to endorse every single mod I currently run and I encourage anyone in my boat (ie. the forgetful boat) to do the same.
Don't forget to endorse the everloving s#*! out of the mods you love. People need encouragement. Someone can do stellar work and still get disheartened because even though fifty people posted 'nice mod, gj' on their page, only a fraction of those people bothered to endorse.mannygt wrote: Please, don't get me wrong, I don't want to force your mouse to point on "endorse" button. I'm explaining how the percentage works in the Nexus. As I said before, I appreciated the users who decided to "follow" me and I always given answers to their questions because this is the real spirit of community (IMHO). Modders and Users working together to improve and make better mods.
I know that the laziness percentage for saying "thank you" or clicking the endorsement button may exist, and also it exists the percentage of who didn't liked the mod, but I cannot believe that mostly of the mods in the Nexus it only have 5%-10% of users attention.mannygt wrote: @user134. This is from your profile:
Joined: 15 September 2013 Last active: 12:28, 28 Apr 2015
Posts: 8 Topics: 0 Files tagged: 0 File images: 0 Endorsements given: 0samo101 wrote: It's not really a case of being grateful as much as it is of participation. People who don't participate in this community probably don't endorse mods.
Furthermore, it makes no difference in the long run. If 10% of users endorse mods they like then you still end up with the most popular mods being endorsed the most, the numbers are just lower.PROMETHEUS_ts wrote: Well I agree on that , the actual system doesn't even discriminate between good and well made mods and just "popularity" ones .
Some crap mods do make up to hot file and stay there a whole week hoarding endorsements just because of popularity or because they made a laught on some . But Other well tought , planned, finely craftet that took months to do are left in the voidness of unpopularity .
some gems are really hidden deep into the vaults of Nexus and are not even known of .
Even the same search categorizes the mods mostly by endorsements wich increase the popularity of the popular ones , rather than have a better fair system of classification of mods according to the work done for making them .mljh11 wrote: Why is an endorsement important? I'm not trolling - I really want to know.
I only just bought Skyrim Legendary Edition last year, and only got into trying mods this year. Therefore I'm very new to the culture here at the Nexus.
Other mod sites don't even have an endorsement button; they may have a 10 point rating system or something. Is such a system better or worse than Nexus' endorsement system?bangunagung wrote: Well, even Gopher forgot to endorse sometimes.bangunagung wrote: @ mljh11
That's just a way of saying "thanks for the mod, I like it". The mod author doesn't get anything from it. It just helps spreading the word whether the mod is good or not and encourage more people to try it.
It's not an entirely different system from rating, just a little bit more general.ramccoid wrote: Don't forget the protest mod, 3,233 unique downloads to 1,438 endorsements which is the only mod ever to reach nearly 50% ratio.
People didn't feel lazy or forgetful about that one. It shows the hypocrisy clearly, make the effort when it suits.Sigurd44 wrote: I forgot to endorse a lot of mods in my first year here on Nexus. I was just to involved in learning how to install mods correctly at all, learning Skyrim folder and file structures etc. Over time I got used to do it. I guess in the meanwhile almost every mod I once used or still use has an endorsement.
That's just my experience, I still can't explain why so many mods with extremely high download rates have so less endorsements.mkess wrote: No, I think this action from valve this weekend was a wakeup call for many users. Let's wait and see.mljh11 wrote: @bangunagung:
Thanks for your reply.
So would I be right to say that you think the endorse button is basically a "thanks" button? If so, I would generally agree with you on this. Which brings me to my next question...
Do mod makers make mods because they want to be thanked?riverreveal wrote: I think a lot of people, Im including myself here, take the modding community for granted to an extent. Oblivion was the first game I started getting mods for, Skyrim was the first game where I spent a good proportion of my time playing around with the mods.
If there is already a community in place with 1000s of members, 1000s of endorsements, millions of downloads then some people think they arent needed. A lot of people have come out of the woodwork in the last few days (again myself included) and I can totally understand a mod author saying, why are you speaking up now about us not getting money now, but not even thanking us when you were grabbing our free mods. I get that.
I have never in my head taken a mod author for granted, but I do realise that my actions over the last few years has been exactly that. If one good thing does come out of all this then I hope a lot more people are going to recognise the same thing and be a bit more proactive towards endorsements and donations.
I really hope Beth and Valve find a way to get you guys rewarded that benefits the community as well. The system they used sucked, but there was a pro there as well.user134 wrote: @mannygt: Yeah, those are statistics on my profile. What is your point? =/mljh11 wrote: The thing is - mod makers (typically) make mods because
1) they themselves love the game, and
2) they love the idea of sharing cool stuff they make for the game with other people.
I say this as an ex-modder myself (for other games, not Skyrim). The sites I uploaded my mods to didn't have an endorse / thanks button at all - and guess what? I never got bothered thinking about whether people were thankful for my mods.
At all.
Seriously.
If you're a modder who DOES MODDING BECAUSE YOU LOVE THE GAME, just carry on. Who cares about a number that says how many people endorse or thank you for your mod? It's just that - a stupid number. Please don't get upset because of this number or the lack of it; there are waaaaay more worthwhile things in life that you could get upset over.jet4571 wrote: Heya Mannygt I think I have endorsed one of your mods or you one of mine.. both... Or just recognize your name. Anyway this one gets me....
"but the most of the users just download the mod without saying any f***ing word. "
A simple "Thanks for uploading" is worth a $5. A "Thanks." is worth $2.50. A "Thanks." with a paragraph describing what you liked is priceless. I just uploaded an Oblivion mod 2 days ago and not one comment and that depresses me. I feel as though the mod isn't quite bad enough to get hate and not good enough for a thanks. I want to know if you are happy with it just like any other modder. If a part of it doesn't get you then please tell me in a constructive way.
I am sure many other modder will agree to that.jaffa5 wrote: I don't agree that just because people ether choose not to or forget to endorse a mod that they have downloaded automaticly makes them ungreatful. There are a number of reasons why some one might not endorse a mod or even comment thank you.
Personally I have only given 66 endorsments on this site since i joined in 2011 but i am not ungreatful. In fact I am massively greatful to the people who spend countless hours creating mods for me to enjoy. The truth is i often forget to endorse mods unless they have really really impressed me. in those cases i will not only endorse i will vote for file of the month and possibley leave a comment.
I think it's nieve to just generalise that every one who downloads and dosn't endose or comment is inherantly ungreatful.Amyr wrote: Endorsement system should be gone anyway. It's completely useless.
What would you gain if Falskaar had 250K Endorsements instead of 60K? Nothing. It's just a number.
What we actually need is a review system. You can have 200 reviews and it seems like a really really small number compared to 60K Endorsement, but wouldn't it be better to have 98% approved rating with those reviews? Rather than having 200K mindless clicks because Nexus keeps forcing you to?jet4571 wrote: Ok how about rude? if ungrateful is too insulting that shouldn't be because that's kinda what you are saying. If you download so many mods in a download session that you cannot remember where they came from then you are lucky your game still works.
Also an endorsement is a thank you. If you enjoy a mod then hit the button. The endorsement does not do anything but tell the author thanks. There is no secret files of the month or anything. Endorsements are not in limited supply so you can endorse every mod you downloaded that you liked.
AN Endorsement is NOT a measurement in quality. Do not think of them as that because they are a simple thank you .Amelli wrote: I don't think it's fair to call the users ungrateful just because they haven't hit the endorse button. That's very petty imo.
I for one know I haven't endorsed nearly as many mods as I should have, why? Several reasons
1. The main one being I have a life that is very busy and doesn't 100% revolve around Skyrim.
2. When I do come back to Skyrim in my very limited free time, I'm a mod hoarder, and spend more time messing around in MO trying to settle on a mod list I'm happy to play with and testing all those mods out in game, whilst figuring out why my game CTDs, which mod did it or which mods don't pal up together nicely, then I actually spend time playing the game.
3. To endorse I have to have downloaded a mod. To endorse I have to have spent time testing that mod. As endorsing certifies I've tested and I am happy with that mod. That's it's something special. Some mods take longer to test then others.
4. My mind isn't what it used to be and I can easily forget after all those other points that I need to return to the nexus and endorse my mods without getting distracted by yet another uber awesome mod on the nexus front page. That advertising doing its job right after all right?
5. After a few months I find my way out of the mire and realise I haven't endorsed still. So when I see an update for a mod I love and realise I haven't endorsed, I kick myself and hit the endorse button.
Should I feel I'm ungrateful for not endorsing? NO. Should feel upset at MannyG's words? YES.
I'm not able to speak for all users. But I'm sure there are many like me who would feel very pissed off at being called ungrateful.
And yes I can understand that there may be some out there who just download and don't give a toss, but I can bet you that the majority of us do give a toss, we just have very busy lives, and we sometimes don't realise what the nagging thing we need to do at the back of our minds is trying to tell us....umm what is that thing I had to do?....Oh yes, frickin endorse. It's not that I'm ungrateful. It's just that when I endorse, it's in between the few moments of free time I have to actually relax and have some me time. What would I rather be doing with that time?
If a modder doesn't feel they are being shown enough respect or endorsements all they have to do is hide their mod. That's their choice that they are entitled to. But users aren't forced to say boo to anything, just like modders aren't forced to Mod.
If anyone is ungrateful it's you MannyG.
Seriously. Go endorse. Donate, if you feel inclined to. It's a few second action and creates a sense of community.
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50%, since 25% is split back to the game's developer. Valve is selling itself as a service, which is why it takes half.
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For modding help these forums are pretty bad, most active modders are on Bethesda forums rather than here. Another good place that may be helpful is STEP Forums, especially Skyrim Revisited section. They maybe helpful as they are experts at testing mods for incompatibilities.
More details are likely required to provide anything useful but Shesons Memory Patch with ENBoost are things to try as CTD's when going from interior to exterior are typically Memory related,
Knowing nothing of your general Mod using knowledge as opposed to CK mod making knowledge, I must assume you have none (All possibilities are covered by assuming nothing. So I mean no insult if you already know these facts)
SkSE v7 Alpha has the required Sheson Memory Patch built in
These are the recommended Settings for:
..\Steam\SteamApps\Common\Skyrim\Data\SkSE\SkSE.Ini
[General] ClearInvalidRegistrations=1 [Memory] DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=768 ScrapHeapSizeMB=256 [Display] iTintTextureResolution=2048
[Display]
iTintTextureResolution=2048
is for Character Creation Overlay Tints for Race Menu (IIRC), so that can be ignored.
Two Memory ones are for Memory Patch, one anomaly is other methods reduce 1st Memory Block = DefaultHeapInitialAllocMB=768 to 512 but the other 256 is still there just built in to that methods code, SkSE Team said it's reservered for Animations (IIRC).
First one clears out old scripts from memory (IIRC again) that one should be kept as well as memory ones.
ENBoost is just a group of ENBLocal.Ini settings for different sizes of Graphic Cards to enable use of ENBSeries Memory Patch without all the fancy Graphics that ENB is usually used for (Requires ENBSeries v0.196 and newer but latest is always recommended and is currently v0.251).
This enables Skyrim to Access much more memory (Theoretically 128 GB) by using a ENBHost.Exe to take most of the Load.
Using these two Memory Patches in combination has turned Skyrim from a CDT every 5 mins or sooner into a rock solid platform though Sheson's is the crucial CTD stopper. that allows ENBoost to now be used much more. Al this is only 1 month old, so still being researched.
Also Stable uGrids to Load Mod is recommended even without altering uGrids and with these fixes it prevents CTD's related to uGrid instabilities.
Download Links:
ENBSeries (Graphic Modification) with ENBoost (Memory and Performance Optimization) - TES Skyrim
Memory Blocks Log by Sheson 39=Utilities=50471 @ Skyrim Nexus Mods and Community
SkSE (Skyrim Script Extender) @ Silverlock Org
Further information:
Skyrim Memory Patch 3.0 - STEP Community
ENBSeries • View topic - Skyrim Memory Patch - fixing ILS, uGrids CTD, freezes
Gopher's Videos
Skyrim Mod Sanctuary 84 : Skyrim Memory Patch (Fix freezes and crashes) - YouTube
Skyrim Mod Sanctuary 71 : CTD and Memory Patch ENBoost - YouTube
Skyrim Mod Sanctuary 76 : Stable uGridsToLoad - YouTube
Skyrim Mod Sanctuary 76 : Stable uGridsToLoad Encore - YouTube
I'm aware you may know all this, but modders sometimes don't keep up with mod using, especially Lone Wolf Big World modders like Falskaar's Alexander J Velicky. Who never completed main quest or even started DLC's while making his Epic Mod. So as all we have to go on is CTD's when loading world space from an interior and this fixes main cause of that, this is best bet without further info. In any case, I urge STEP Forum for detailed Mod usage/compatibility help with a special mention for Skyrim Revisited's author Neovalen, who is regarded as one of the most capable modders on STEP, a forum full of capable modders. He probably knows more than anyone, anywhere, about how to get mods to play nicely together and with vanilla game. Bethesda Forums are better for Mod Making Knowledge. Nexus is not the place to get either.
This isn't a good idea. While I generally run the memory patch anyway, during development you want to try and avoid things that may mask the problem.
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Ah, fair enough.
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Just out of curiosity, how goes things?
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Bear in mind: You may need to keep in fact that if you can't return once you get there that stuff like the Dark Brotherhood can intefere.
The shaming of non-premium users needs to stop!
in Site Support
Posted
Yeah, that's why I thought of dark patterns. It was probably just plain misleading. Which is something different. <_<