DangerM

Isn't work communication on Andromedon derailing this thread a bit? :geek: Regarding feedback, instead of me writing walls of text, may I ask you what your philosophy on the role of all the various aliens in the mod is? I think it would be easier for us to give feedback if we know more about the objective. :)

I completely agree. In the past 2 pages of posts on this thread, there are about 50 new abilities proposed, some of which contradict each other, some of which may be very hard to implement. My only comment is that the amount of design recently exceeds the amount of implementation recently, so any implementation help would be appreciated. Good to hear. :) I'm not sure I follow what I mean with "the amount of design recently exceeds the amount of implementation" though. Do you mean that you're worried about over-scoping the project? In that case I would suggest dialing it back and focusing primarily on the things fans and you yourself find are the most interesting. Quality vs Quantity and all that.

Tempting, but I really don't have time time (or even a functional computer, for several months thanks to the British "Royal Mail"). I've already got a Unity game project going on and an old Don't Starve mod in dire need of updates. First of, I would say that writing down design is relatively quick, implementation tends to take a damn long time. There is nothing easy about either good design or good implementation. Don't be in so too hurry to get the mod done. Even the advice from people here without any experience in modding/games/design is valuable, because even should the advice be 'way out there', it tells you what (at least part of) your target audience is thinking. F.ex. classes/aliens they are excited for, and so on. Sharing your thoughts, reasons for doing 'X', 'Y' but being cautious about 'Z' and responding to feedback will not only make your community feel involved, but it will improve the mod, guaranteed. Besides, the title of the thread is feedback. :smile: + the Nexus mod has 3000 downloads. Though while I'm sure you said it in jest, fame, is really not a good reason to be making mods. Even mods that land on the frontpage won't get anyone real fame. What it may get you is something cool to put in your CV for your next project or if you try to apply for a full time job in game development. A lot of game developers I know started of as successful modders. Modding background shows that you can work on a team to deliver a product, and not just that you have '1337-code/art skillz'. Plus modding is a lot of fun. IMO. :laugh:

Ops found an error. "need not to be mutually exclusive." @dlallen What are your thoughts on Aliens vs. later game units like XCOM1 MECs, SHIVs and XCOM2 Psi Operatives?

The Chryssalid ideas need not be mutually exclusive though. The idea I wrote down describes a queen after all. The reason I went with a Queen, with the option do go into a three intended to spawn the little guys is that Chryssalids are essentially cannon fodder (or at worst an unstoppable zergling swarm). I feel the Chryssalid "fantasy" scenario basically has tons of the little zerglings running around the map spreading their disease without the player actually caring too much about them dying all over the place. It feels odd that little Eddy the Chryssalid would level up and become as much of a badass as Chuck Norris the Ranger, but perhaps it could be done. Would you really want him to be infectious though? In that case I think at the very least you'd want to make the original guy a different colour to tell him apart from his spawn. :smile: I played at the middle difficulty where most ADVENT (not Alien) soldiers die in a hit or two regardless. Other creatures cannot be grabbed by the Viper afaik. I could see it being reduced to dealing a bit of extra damage and retaining concealment if a kill was made though. So the Viper isn't too strong at higher difficulties/vs strong ADVENT troops. It was a few week since I played XCOM2, so I may not remember exactly how potent concealment is. To me firing of a shot, and the next turn running away and going into concealment doesn't sound any more broken than abilities like Killzone or PSI-Lance, Stasis, etc. The way I figured it the Assassin type of Viper would be running around the flanks picking of vulnerable enemies, or finishing them of. When exposed the enemies would have about a turn or two to down her before she snakes back to stealth. As for plasmas being loud. Sure, but I think the assumption is that the enemies spot her, but she quickly moves around and vanishes up a tree or something (not game mechanically, just as a narrative idea), thus regaining concealment. I'm pretty sure the mod will need to add scaling weapons, and probably armour to the aliens to avoid them "falling off" in terms of power. The designs I made were all made with the assumption that a player would own no more than a few aliens (if the player didn't over-invest), so the overlap wouldn't be too much of a problem. Besides, I don't see a problem with a Muton, Chryssalid and Ranger all crashing through a wall together and turning an Advent squad into mince meat. :smile: -------------------------- With this sort of I think nailing the "fantasy" of the aliens is very important, not just getting the balance right. IMO. A Muton should feel like a hulking adrenaline fuelled super warrior who crushes both the body and spirit of his enemies with overwhelming force. A Viper should feel like an agile, stealthy predator who strikes without warning and slithers away before her foes can retaliate. (The other tree was mostly based around the fluff about Vipers/Thin-Men being extremely loyal) etc.

Hm, accidentally erased my post, so this one will be shorter. I haven't been able to test the mod since my gaming computer has been dead the past few weeks. I should have the parts to fix it in a week or so though. I'll still gladly talk about the game design philosophy meanwhile. :) First off, I don't think it needs to be a binary answer. Some aliens could be way stronger (and more expensive), others could be far more expendable and affordable. Making the Aliens varied will make them stand out. The way the XCOM games are balanced we can think of XCOM a bit like an RPG with four basic classes: Assault, Grenadier, Sniper and Support. These four are all intended to be balanced for all possible team compositions without one coming out ahead too much. While there is some room for creativity, with the tools we have most new (alien) classes would likely end up being some combination. From there XCOM 1 offered the ability to upgrade a class into a more potent one (let's call it hero class) such as MEC or PSI. There was reasons you did not do this to all soldiers. The first of which was that it was too resource demanding, upgrading a full team of MECs required more MELD and money than what it was worth, if at all even achievable. The second reason was that it led you to lose out on some tactical diversity and lock you out of possible PSIs. Some people never bothered with MECs and just bought satellites instead. The advantages of asymmetric balance. (Hero-class)1. The Aliens do not compete against, outclassing, or being outclassed by human classes. They are too expensive.2. It leads the player to build tactics around a powerful alien they have invested in, which leads not only to a memorable experience, but can dramatically change a player's tactics. For example, Huge Chryssalid, it is essentially a death train, but it needs to be protected. This leads to tactics where you try to transport your cargo train of death into the enemy squad without it being turned into Swiss cheese. I'm off to work now, but I'll try to write more later. :smile:

Well, if you want more... Note: Don't read too much into the specific balance or exact gameplay implementation here. I wrote this mostly to get a feel for the Aliens/Classes. Keep in mind that the Aliens don't get fancy rockets with their armor, or the neat accessory slots humans have. Well, unless you want that ofc. XCOM MEC The real secret to the Advent MEC lies in its core. While normally kept both charged and connected to the ADVENT network the MEC has the capacity to remain active for several days and act in a surprisingly independent way while cut of from the network. Features: Walking Tank. The XCOM MEC is a heavy front-line fighter specifically intended to draw fire from our more vulnerable soldiers. It is more than just a decoy however, and packs a massive amount of firepower to bear down on our foes. When the MEC finally breaks down we can have our soldiers salvage the core and rebuild it with relative ease. Innate Traits + The MEC is durable and when well equipped will have lot of armor and a fair bit of health. + Rebuildable. As long as the core is recovered rebuilding the MEC is cheap. + The MEC is modular. Instead of ranking up the components of a MEC can be swapped out for various effects. + Blast Padding. The MEC is resilient to explosives. + Rocket Battery. 3 CD. Periodically loads a small rocket. - Easy to hit. Perk Tree - MEC The MEC is defined more by its equipment than its AI. While aim and general combat performance does improve, the MEC obtains only a handful of perks. Flexible Programming - Shooting or using abilities no longer ends the turn. Optimization - Can use movement action for shooting or using abilities. (Shoot twice) Equipment Flamer (2-use) - Cover a cone in fire and test all struck units for panic (same as XCOM1) Bombardment (2-use) - Bombard an area with multiple inaccurate missiles Scanner - Scans an area. Mobile Cover - The MEC can be used as High Cover Satellite Sync - Applies Holo-targeting to all visible enemies. Lock On - Similar to Sniper Rifle/Pistol. Can make an inaccurate shot if movement was made, or an extremely highly accurate shot if no movement was made. Reeducated Muton To ease control over Mutons it appears the ADVENT uses implants which condition Mutons to see ADVENT members as part of their Tribe. Though it will take time and resources we believe we can reprogram these Mutons to serve the XCOM Project instead. Features: The Reeducated Muton depending on its training functions either like an Assault soldier with very high durability, or a front-line leader capable of raising our own morale or drive enemies into panic. Innate Abilities + Durable; the Muton has a lot of health and a bit of armor. + Mutons can make melee attacks. + Automatically counter attack melee attacks. + Mutons have two grenades Perk Tree - Alien Leader This tree focuses on supporting troops from the front line with combat shouts which boost morale and frightens enemies. Shredder - Your attacks shred armor. Death Mark - Allies have bonus aim and critical hit chance against the target. Target must test to avoid panic. Volatile Mix - Grenades have increased radius Inspire - Gives target ally another action. Warcry - Panic and Disorient is removed from Allies. Allies gain a +15 bonus to Aim this turn. Terrifying Shout - All enemies nearby must test against panic. Perk Tree - Bruiser This tree focuses on close quarter combat with the enemies, capable of shrugging a fair bit of damage. Blast Padding - You gain one extra armor and resistance to explosives. Tear apart - Melee attacks never miss, deal extra damage and shred armor Charge! (2 CD) - Shooting does not ends the turn. Can still make a melee attack after shooting. Alien Fortitude - Gain extra armor and health Untouchable - When a kill is scored the next hit on the Muton will miss. Battle Rage - For two turns after being injured you get an extra action. Loyal Viper We have found that, much like a bird's chicks, Vipers are good at mimicry and imprint on whatever they first make contact with when they are "activated". By exploiting this behavior we can obtain agents who are not only deadly, but loyal even to a fault. Features The Loyal Viper functions either as a frighteningly effective assassin, or an evasive support to the other troops. Innate Traits + The Viper is more durable than human troops. + The Viper has the Dodge ability. + The Viper can grab and strangle human-like opponents. + Immune to poison. + Retains concealment. + Highly mobile + Shooting does not end turn. (can still move) x Instead of a grenade the Viper spits poison. Perk Tree - Predator This tree focuses on stealth, assassination and surviving alone. Shadow Strike- Better aim and damage when attacking from concealment. Assassinate - If you kill a foe from concealment you immediately return to concealed state. Tongue grab is instantly fatal if used from stealth. Misdirection (3 turn CD) - Activate this ability to go into concealment. Takes a half-action and ends the turn. CD reduced by 1 when an enemy is slain. Implacable - if you killed an enemy you obtain a single bonus move. Thrill of the Hunt - Regain 35% health when killing an opponent. 55% if Tongue Grab was used. (round up) Guerrilla Warfare - When targeted by enemy fire, automatically fire back with your rifle. If an enemy is slain, go into concealment. Perk Tree - Loyalist This tree focuses on supporting troops by disorienting foes by spitting contact poisons and providing support with her rifle. Corrosive Spit - The Viper's poison spit becomes corrosive and can damage mechanical units. Shadow Step - Does not trigger overwatch. Loyalist - The Viper gains the Holo-targeting power. Also, if an ally goes down the Viper gets a large aim bonus and regain 20% health. Kill Zone - Take a reaction shot against any enemy that moves or attacks within a cone of fire. PhD Snek- Can pick up* unconscious soldiers and gains an extra move when doing so. This stabilizes soldiers. *as if the soldiers were items. Blitzkrieg - Can shoot twice per turn. If a shot lands, get a free movement action in-between. Domesticated Chryssalid We have bred our own queen for testing purposes. From this we have learned that the drones' behavior is reflected from the queen, and that the huge queen has a surprisingly submissive behavior. Likely this is the result of engineering by the aliens to make them easier to control. Our men has likened the queen to a dog. "A giant venomous dog". Features The huge Domesticated Chryssalid is a slow moving, but powerful juggernaut. While it may be very durable it can easily end up drawing more enemy fire than it can handle, and has poor ability to escape a troublesome situation. Few enemies will be able to stand up to the lumbering creature however. Innate Traits The Chryssalid has very high health, but only a single point of armor. Chryssalid poison. Can spit regular poison with a small hit radius. Does not inflict Chryssalid poison. Immune to poison. - Cannot take Cover. - Uses up two character slots. - Takes up a 2x2 area (same as Sectopod) Perk Tree - Juggernaut The Juggernaut tree is intended to make the Chryssalid a slow-moving inevitable death to enemies should it reach them. It contains upgrades to armor, health and the ability to destroy heavily armored enemies. Instinct - Free melee attacks against enemies which move into melee range. Evolved Armor - Gain 2 armor and resistance to explosives Brutality - When an enemy is attacked all nearby enemies must test against panic. Rage - When struck by an enemy attack, move a short distance towards them. Juggernaut - Gain 1 armor and increased melee damage Terrifying Presence - When injured all nearby enemies must test to avoid panic. Perk Tree - Queen The Queen tree is a support tree, and makes the Chryssalid faster and capable of spreading Chryssalid poison to enemies struck, or even spit it out from a distance. Enemies slain from the poison will give birth to two very weak Chryssalids capable of spreading the poison further. Potent Spit - Spits poison inflicts Chryssalid poison. Lean muscles - Increased Mobility Evolved poison glands - Poison has a larger radius of effect. Potent Brood - Drone Chryssalids have increased aim and health. Agonizing Poison - Poisoned enemies must test will to avoid disorientation each turn while poisoned. Swarm of Nightmares - Two Chryssalids spawn from enemies slain with poison. -------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, this took forever to write. No, I haven't had any food this evening. Btw. I'd wager Firaxis would think the mod you guys are making is a pretty cool concept. If you run into any huge roadblocks or whatever I may be able to forward something to one of their leads. I don't work for Firaxis myself, but I code for another company under Take-Two Interactive (owner of Firaxis), so I've got them all on Lync. No promises though!

First off, I must say that I think you're doing fantastic work here! I was looking around in Unreal to make an Alien mod myself when the game was released. I'm really glad to see someone else taking a shot at this. :) I think the cost should be balanced based on what you want the classes to give the players. While not game-mechanically accurate, the game tries to make the aliens seem much more powerful than your rag-tag group of humans. If you want aliens to be notably more potent, give them a higher cost but also higher return on investment. Suggestions: Aliens, much like PSI soliders, are generally a more powerful than their thematically closest human solider. They grow at a rate comparable to human soldiers. They require significant resources to clone/brainwash/jury rig. Compare to Xcom 1's MECs. Aliens start off more powerful than human soldiers, but have limited growth. This may be more setting appropriate choice (human potential and all that). Compare to XCOM 1's SHIVs. Player may feel like this makes aliens a bad choice, or a crutch however (or want to train their "Snek Waifu" into a complete monster...), so it may be a bit more difficult to balance right. Aliens have power comparable to humans and costs comparable to humans. Makes sense setting wise, especially since most of them have been altered with human DNA. Making them more expensive than humans will lead to buying them being a poor tactical choice. Thoughts Personally I feel 1 is the nicest solution, so I'll elaborate on that. Depending on the alien type and research they, unlocking the new aliens will come around after at least a few weeks, so they will need justify getting them as new soldiers when you already may have a few mid-ranked ones. The argument for getting aliens in this (1) case would be: They will start out at the level of my current soldiers. They have a bit higher potential than my current soldiers.Arguments against would be They cost research I could spend on infrastructure/research instead. Magnetic Weapons for everyone, or more monthly income is probably better than a new mid-class soldier.Class Ideas Advent MEC Rebuildable frontline soldier. This guy is a moving, shooting, decoy grenade. He is, much like XCOM 1 MECs intended to be out in the open taking hits and dishing out damage. His strength is great firepower and durabiliy. His weakness is being unsuitable for evasive play, a sitting duck when enemy plasma is slung around. Upgrades would be more armor, or more firepower such as flame throwers and more rockets. Muton Much like the MEC the Muton is a frontline soldier, though a bit less expendable, and sacrificing some firepower for combat shouts which buff allies with a chance of panicking aliens. Upgrades would be better shouts or more general frontline soldier traits. Sssnek, er I mean, Viper Instead of a mere Recon, the Viper offers a kit more like an Assassin. Like the Recon she arrives stealthed and possessed attacks more deadly when performed from stealth. What makes her an assassin is her ability to re-stealth at the end of a turn if she killed an enemy. Upgrades would be ether better ability to stealth or deal damage from stealth, such as letting her kill with tongue without being revealed (Assassin). Alternatively she can improve her aim and gain better ability to deal damage or disorient enemies (More of a team fighter). - - - - - - I have to head to work now, but if you'd like I could drop a few ideas, or elaborate on these further later. Good luck with the mod!

Are there any good mods out there for this game? I'm looking especially for mods that add new features such as PSI Powers, class progression, etc. Or just a cool rebalance mod. I've read that mods like Warspace Extension was supposed to be good, but it seems to have been abandoned, anything like it out there? I've tried Long War and I frankly didn't like it. If you need the long version: