Ahtilah

If the color does change, keep it lore friendly, IMO. I personally like how they are as they stay with the colors very well. Also, if I may, a cloth variant of all robes would be fantastic as an optional download for those Alteration Mages. Or atleast of the 'Mage' sets(Not sure if their are any other then Morokei and Miraak) Keep the main version friendly to their current armors and ratings, but let the mages also enjoy the set that fits them. I do beleive their are others, Vokun? I think he has a mask for Conjuration and Illusion magic? I can't remember specifics, but I do know of other Mage type Priests. I am aware of your SkyRe patch, but if it only changes Morokei, then I think more need to be looked at. Again, my opinion. I do know that Bethesda doesn't always make lore friendly decisions themselves, such as enchants on some of those Priest Masks make no sense if they all are mages. Or they should have made the Dragon priests unique in every fight and give the mask of their unique abbilities.

Well at least someone's been paying attention :) With respect, that's what this forum is here for. And don't tell me you yourself haven't engaged in speculation over this stuff cause I've read your posts. More than likely, you just don't want to hear my point of view. Yeah. It's ok when the Cloakies roll with their Crazy Talk about splitting everyone down the middle on 101 fronts, but to have an Imperial stand up for the Empire, presenting an argument which proves you wrong or at least offers another possibility, is unacceptable. I understand. This ain't my first barbeque. :devil: Well, I have participated and never denied, but since then I have changed how I have been thinking. If you look at the last few posts by me, you would see such a change. ;) I have no problem with hearing your point of view or passion for the Imperials within it, honestly I consider myself neutral among which side to choose. As I did cast a vote first day in this forum, but since have deleted the vote(Which was vote towards Stormcloaks). And I was wrong to vote, and I now admit to such. But all in all, you are telling him he is wrong. But since you are making assumptions, you really have no place saying that he is wrong. So it isn't as much as you 'proposing a different possibility' but as much as you were saying he was entirely wrong.

@bigmagy1981 Once again bigmagy1981, you are way to clouded by people with misguided 'assumptions'. Your 'assumptions' are just as right/wrong as Macsuibhne. Cause that is what it is, an assumption.(Based entirely around your own point of view of course, and his based around his) So you telling him that he is wrong, is wrong doing so. None of what you say has come to pass, therefore it is all up in the air. But what is certain is knowing Bethesda's intent, neither choice of Stormcloak or Imperial will spell doomsday. So somehow Stormcloaks will face the AD after the Civil War(eventually) after they win. NONE of which means they are going to be wiped the floor from them, which is what you are saying. Whoever wins the Civil War, whether you choose Stormcloak or Imperial will not spell Doomsday. Doomsday being what you are suggesting if you choose Stormcloaks. We can all speculate what will happen, but in the end it is a matter of which side do you fit in more, not which will end the existence of Skyrim or all humans.

It still is doubtful they have the resources, but that is me making an assumption. They did fight the war on many fronts, and if Skyrim splits from the Empire then that is more fronts to face off. As you have stated. But second front? If Cyrodiil stays out, sure. But Hammerfell is not gone 'yet'. So it would be more then two fronts.

EDIT: Mix up on my part.

@Brutii You mention about Ulfric starting the war by being instructed, which is false. All of the things that he has done that has helped the Thalmor was never intentional, even if anything has benefited them. He remains to be a good asset as long as he fuels the Civil War and it continues for a long length of time. But in the Dosiier it also mentions an short victory is something they do not want. "A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed. " http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thalmor_Dossier%3A_Ulfric_Stormcloak He may have been 'broken' but he didn't give much to them, and during the time of his interrogation he was most likely a young adult(Since the interrogation happened 25 years or more in the past, and it mentions being the son of the Jarl at the time) But also many people assume that even if the Stormcloaks win, the Empire falls inevitably. But just because the Stormcloaks win, doesn't mean Ulfric will be High King, which would mean he is the Seat of Power to Skyrim. The moot has not been made yet, so no decision upon it has been made. Much has been overthrown in the War, Balgruuf is locked away, but not out for the count. So it is still not yet safe to assume that the Stormcloak victory means they will not be allied with the Empire. They may not be part of it, but it doesn't mean they won't face the AD together. Unless of course Ulfric is High King.(Or Ulfric will surprise us) In all honesty, I don't think choosing either side is going to make a difference. It was naive of me to think that choosing one or the other would spell 'doomsday' and I now see that. I think whichever side is chosen, in the end, is a matter of which one you like more. And that whatever choice you make, still comes out a win somehow. If this were a game where what you do made a difference, then I would think differently, but Bethesda has never stated it was to make any impact. And so it has led me to believe that it is just about where you 'fit' not which one spells 'doomsday'.

Well, that is quite unfortunate. I wish you the best in your situation.

Well, BrettM. He's not out for the count with a Stormcloak victory of Whiterun, he still lives. And is most likely still recognized as Jarl by the other Holds.

I would if I wasn't looking up mods to try out. ;)

Probably think him as noble, for how he reacts to things thrown at him. Personally, I think he could have told the Empire to shove the gold up their arses. But he sort of already has done that by after accepting the gold, he still allows talos Worship. Personally, I think the accepting the gold lowers my thoughts on him. And seeing as how his Children are spoiled rotten, shows his heirs won't be any good and likely overthrown, like the Jarl in Falkreath.

What many points you bring are true. Ulfric does use violence, no doubt about that. But it depends who you ask if he did it by force. Unlike what happened with the Mede family, who everyone thought it was done by force(Atleast it is how the book states it). In the end of course, I suppose what he brought was justifiable, but only because he brought stability. If it went any other way, the family would have been known as Tyrants by all. I'm not saying it was 'all' bad, but I'm sure many would have rather had a voice in it. And you are right, I don't want Ulfric, but I do share the ideals of the Stormcloaks. Even if the goals are short sighted, it doesn't mean they will be after the Civil War. Whether Ulfric becomes High King remains to be seen, of course. And we shall see when the Moot takes place.(Assuming we see such an event) I've never stated that the Stormcloaks are the one with a plan, but what I do share is the idea of freedom to Worship Talos freely.(In a nord role-play here)

But calling him a racist is also an overstatement, even if calling him prejudice would be an understatement. Possible I have not gotten as deep as I thought into the matter of Hammerfell, so I am unsure if you are correct on that or not. As far as the Mede family, if we were to role-play this. Most people do not pay attention to politics, same goes for Tamriel. But you actually speak with Ulfric in a face to face encounter, that is what I mean by 'knowing'. I don't truly 'know' Obama, I've never had the pleasure/displeasure of meeting him face to face. Same goes for Tidus Mede and his entire family. Yes, they had in the past brought it up from bad times, but they did it by force.

Didn't mean to stretch as far as saying 'that is how it will go down'. But yes, you are right. I could be right, but I could be wrong. No certainty should have been behind my words, even though that is how I sounded. But if Cyrodiil is going to bother having states, I would personally think it to be fair for all to suffer equally. But that is why Hammerfell seceded, they didn't think it was fair. But yes, who knows how it would have turned out if they had or hadn't, speculating won't prove points, and I was wrong to try.

Self preservation, for starters? Skyrim is the only remaining link Cyrodiil has to High Rock. So you are justifying their cowardice? How is it justifiable? On one hand, if they were to continue fighting, they could have fended off and won against the AD and then counterattack. They had the manpower, and yet... They pulled out and signed a treaty to stop the fighting to make sure they keep the same borders. It is true if they kept fighting they would have lost borders, but they wouldn't have lost the war and would have been able to regain.

You seem to think this 'united' Empire is strong. They pulled out of Hammerfell, which is still under fire and used to be one of their own states. What is going to stop them from pulling out of Skyrim, if Skyrim were to be attacked first?(Unlikely for Skyrim to be attacked first, but possible). With your logic, doesn't that mean the Empire needs Hammerfell and they shouldn't of pulled out? But they have, and Hammerfell seceded from the Empire for it. Also, we cannot predict the actions of how the Empire will react at all, we as Skyrim folk, don't even really know this Emperor or his family except that they by force took over Cyrodiil. Even if we were to assassinate him(Dark Brotherhood questline) what then? Who is the successor? Is the successor better or worse? With choosing Ulfric, you have somewhat control and knowledge of who you are choosing. And it is a influential leader, not a racist as you have claimed, which is false. Helping his own is first priority, always. it is how it is with -all- leaders. Or how it should be, anyway. These Dark Elves that he didn't help? Not his people, refuges of Morrowind, not his own. And this mistaken racism towards elves, not entirely true. He may be harder on an elf player character, but not racist. He absolutely doesn't like the AD, which a lot of AD are High Elves. So understandable there, but their is the High Elf in the Market place who mentions why she isn't being mistreated, go and see what she says. She'll tell you that she proved she is useful, that is what the bad treatment is about.

You seem to be stuck with the trend of many people about the Stromcloaks. The only racism I see, is the two nords walking around the streets of WIndhelm(And last I checked, they don't represent the Stromcloaks or Ulfric). And as much as people seem to blame Ulfric for some racism, I don't see it. Just because Argonians are not allowed within the walls, which are filled to the brim with people as it is already. Or how he put the Dark Elves to the Gray Quarter? They are the ones who turned the Gray Quarter into what it is today. So that one is self inflicted. And not all the Dark Elves are living in that area, their is also the Dark Elf who lives with the Cruel Sea family and is better off then most Dark Elves. No one is racist towards the High Elf in the market place, but she has earned their respect by showing she isn't worthless. A nord will talk down anyone who isn't a hard worker, is what it comes down to. Until you prove your worth, you might as well be trash. Even other Nords get the same treatment if they don't prove their worth. Like Nord Bards are prime examples of this same treatment.

I never said the Thalmor could take down the Empire, atleast not right off the bat. It will take a while. But for the most part, they are already taking care of themselves. What other off the scene is going on with the empire other then just Skyrim? For one, you got nobles wanting an assassination on Tidas Mede II. Which means, they got their own internal problems at this very moment back in Cyrodiil. What I am saying, the Thalmor can sit back and relax while the Empire takes care of itself. And then deliver the finishing blow after all the dust has settled.

So what you posted, is a scenario of what will happen if the civil war continues in either case? Cause personally, I see a worse outcome with going with the Empire then I would with Ulfric. Going with the Empire would include Skyrim as a crossed out in that picture. Along with everything else.

I don't think anyone has brought up this point yet. If we are to assume we want to fight for the best interests of 'Skyrim' why choose the imperials? Who's seat of government is not in Skyrim, but over in Cyrodill(I hope I spelled that right)? The point is, even if an attack were to occur on Skyrim, it won't be until everyone else is wiped out. They are the furthest lands away from Summerset Isle, and also the 'coldest'. Does the failed attempts on Russia from two key people ring a bell? Hitler and Napoleon, massed armies and sent it into Russia, only to watch their troops die to the cold harsh winters. Who best to defend these lands then the natives? They know the land, and are more then likely going to bleed more for their land, but the Empire? It's not their land, why would they bleed for it first? (If we are to assume Skyrim is attacked first, again I doubt that) Skyrim will have plenty of time to rebuild, I would think. But it begs the question, what will they do after their own Civil War has ended for either side? Stormcloak win: Most likely will find them aiding Hammerfell, why? Because the AD are attacking them, and their nation shows that they can hold their own. A strong ally against the AD. After that, build up forces to prepare for the blood bath that the AD will bring after they bolster up their forces. Imperial win: Probably work on their own infrastructure. Nothing will get done, politics will work down the Empire even further, and they will lose more and more allies. Tidas Mede II has proved one thing, Cyrodill is his only concern, Hammerfell, an old Empire state is now fending off against the AD and seceded from the Empire. What do you think would happen to Skyrim if they were attacked before Cyrodill, they'll pull out and leave them to die. Fall back to Cyrodill borders. Assuming Tidas Mede II was not killed in your story, of course. Otherwise, it will be Elder Council fighting over the seat of power. In the end, and my opinion. In this case, a divided may be a better turn out, instead of a united.