cfcohen

I've not been active in this forum or the Creation toolkit for some time, so this post doesn't have details that it probably should. Game Settings is a separate editable list under a different menu. They are basically assignments for strings, integers and floats. You're on the right track, but sFalmer and sIron are NOT forms, they're Settings. Just look through the menus for "Game Settings".

Thanks for responding ingraved. I obviously hadn't figured out dragging and dropping a keyword onto the form list. Does drag and drop work in a lot of places? I probably would have figured out to press delete if I'd been trying to delete something, but I never would have guessed that drag and drop was the right way to add an item. :confused: As for the patience, I surely understand -- it was a long post. In keeping with my plan to contribute in hopes of getting more views and answers, I'll offer my latest discoveries. The form list apparently has no impact on the displayed menus. Neither removing nor adding material keywords from the form list has an impact. I've confirmed that you can have all of the following menu items (simultaneously) on each of the four object creation devices (Cook Pot, Forge, Smelter and Tanning Rack): Wood, Hide, Draugr, Iron, Studded, Imperial, Steel, Leather, Dwarven, Elven, Falmer, Orcish, Ebony, Glass, Dragon, Daedric, Jewelry, Food, Misc This seems to confirm that they all use the same "object creation" menu code wherever that is. There are a few oddities however. For example, Falmer Armor shows up under Misc even if you associate the armor objects with the ArmorMaterialFalmer keyword. It's likely that this is just a bug in the code. Attaching WeapMaterialFalmer to the armor causes them to show up under the correct menu. The armor was originally marked as ArmorMaterialSteel in error. Also, there doesn't appear to be any customization of the tempering menus. Even if you associate a weapon tempering recipe with the armor workbench, it won't show, probably because there's a form type filter on the tempering device. Even after attaching the right/wrong material keywords, they won't show up. Everyone please read the original thread, and answer any questions if you're able, although with the inability to control which menu food shows under I'm less concerned about automatically changing the labels. :( Thanks again to ingraved for helping keep my thread alive.

Hello everyone, I'm new to modding Skyrim, but not so much for programming and game development in general. I'm primarily interested in crafting, game balance, realism and immersion mods. I've been playing with the Creation Kit for a week or two now, and still have some issues that I can't get to the bottom of. I'll try to make this topic a mixture of what I think I already know (but haven't seen posted), and questions about what I don't know in hopes that more people will read this and discuss it... :wink: The crafting equipment is defined as form=Furniture, type=Workbench. When editing the form, there's an opportunity to define which of the crafting menus opens (Bench Type) and which skill affects the result (Uses Skill), both of which are under "Workbench Data". The obvious bench types are "Enchanting" and "Alchemy". The "Smithing Armor" and "Smithing Weapon" types are for tempering armor and weapons respectively. The "Create Object" menu is for creating new objects and is used by the forge, tanning rack, cooking pot, and smelter by default. So far so good. Questions: Has anyone succeeded in getting the "Alchemy Experiment" and "Enchanting Experiment" to do anything? My attempts to use them resulted in no menu, and an inability to escape from the object without using the console. I assume it is not possible to create new bench types, and I'm not sure if you'd even need/want to -- has anyone? What do the isAlchemy, is Smelter, etc. keywords really do? The recipes themselves are stored as Constructible Object forms. There are fields for the created object and count, as well as a list of consumed items and their counts. The "Workbench Keyword" comes from a list of "CraftingXXX" keywords, which importantly determines which type of crafting workbench uses the recipe. For example, the recipe will only appear at cooking pots if the "CraftingCookpot" is select. Somewhat confusingly, these same keywords are present on the workbench furniture themselves, but don't seem to do anything important. It IS possible for armor recipies to appear at cook pots, cooking recipies at the smelter and so on. Finally, there's a set of "Match Conditions" that can be used to prevent recipes from appearing until a perk is obtained or specific requirement is met. This is used to sometimes hide recipes for which the player does not have the required components by calling GetItemCount. Questions: The recipies are pretty straight forward, so I have but a few questions... How does the CrafingXXX keyword get associated with the correct workbench type? Is it magic native code? A script that I can't find? Some relation with the "isXXX" keywords? Since there is no mechanism for differentiating between "Object Creation" recipies and "Tempering" recipes except that the latter use one of the tempering workbench types, I presume it is not possible mix and match tempering menus in the same way that items can be moved between the object creation menus for various workbench types. Questions: Has anyone suceeded in doing this? For those following closely, you've now figured out that by creating new workbench furniture and new recipes associated with that furniture, you can create arbitrary new crafting tools. Witness the excellent Crafting Complete mod. Now we get to the real details that have taken some digging. :wink: What determines where the recipe ends up in the object creation menu? The answer appears to be the "XXXMaterialXXX" keyword on the object that is created by the recipe. I would have found this much clearer if the keyword was on the recipe, but oh well. In particular, it is possible to move recipes around on the object creation menu by changing these types. For example, you can put leather and hide armor both under "LEATHER" in the forge menu. If you move dwarven armor creation to the cooking pot, the "DWARVEN" entry will appear in the leftmost part of the cooking pot menu. Questions: How are the material type keywords associated with the menus? Obviously, the names largely matche up, but I can see no programatic relationship. Has anyone managed to create new material type keywords and get them to do anything? My attempts have resulted in all new materials being listed under "MISC". If I change an armor from one material type keyword to another, what other places in the game will be affected? Who else other than the crafting code uses these keywords? I assume that it is not possible to create new material type keywords because there are not translation strings associated with the keyword itself, so there must be some other code required to make that happen (see next section). Does anyone know otherwise? At this point I was pleased to find that it was possible to "rebalance" the distribution of creation menus so that instead of having more than a dozen on the forge, and one each on the other crafting workbenches, it was possible to have a few on each. I was not pleased that the translation text of the crafting menus appeared to be fixed, since making Draugr items on the cooking pot does not sound yummy. As it turns out, the translations are not fixed. They're stored in the game settings as strings in the form sXXX, where XXX is the material type. Since there's no clear connection between the material type keywords and they're translations, I've had to flail a little to find what is probably still an incomplete list: Armor Materials: Daedric, Dragonplate, Dragonscale, Dwarven, Ebony, Elven, ElvenGilded, Glass, Hide, Imperial Heavy, Imperial Light, Imperial Studded, Iron, Iron Banded, Orcish, Scaled, Steel, SteelPlate, Stormcloak, and Studded. Weapon Materials: Daedric, Draugr, DraugrHoned, Dwarven, Ebony, Elven, Falmer, Falmer Honed, Glass, Imperial, Iron, Orcish, Silver, Steel, Wood Creation Menu Top-level Catgories (based on game settings that look suspiciously material like): Amber(?), Apparel(?), Daedric, Dragon, Draugr, Dwarven, Ebony, Elven, Falmer, Food, Glass, Hide, Imperial, Iron, Jewelry, Leather, Misc, Orcish, Repair(?), Steel, Studded, White(?), Wood It is possible to change these strings in the Game Settings menu, for example to make them mixed case, or perhaps more importantly to rename an unused category (Draugr? Falmer?) to something else (Arrows or Soups?). There are many inconsistencies, such as the merging of dragonplate and dragonscale, or light and heavy Imperial armors. Misc seem to have no material keyword, and is where all objects lacking a recognized keyword end up. Jewelry is apparently set by the "ArmorJewelry" keyword. Questions: How are the game setting translation strings determined from material keywords? Has anyone gotten Amber, Apparel, Silver, or White to appear in the object creation menu? Several of the material keywords are associated with the "MaterialsArmor" and "MaterialsWeapon" form lists. This would be an excellent candidate for somehow driving the determination of which keywords were material keywords, but sadly I can find no connection, and have been unable to even modify the list to conduct any tests. Questions: How do you modify a form list? Does anyone know what the material form lists are for? Has anyone modified it to achieve anythin useful? At this point I have almost everything I need/want for my crafting mod, execpt that there's not enough menu choices and corresponding material keywords. While I can probably squeeze by with reusing a few of the more esoteric matierals, I'd really like to be reasonbly free of such constraints. The near solution lies in finding a way to modify the translation strings dynamically during execution, perhaps by using a OnActivate() event papyrus script that relabels the categories when the player activates the crafting workbench. Then you could potentially rename the material types into MenuCat01, MenuCat02, etc. And label them "Soups", "Roasts", "Deserts", etc. in the cooking pot, "Leather", "Hide", "Studded", etc. in the tanning rack, and more like the defaults at forge. Obviously, an unlimited number of additional categories would be available for newly created crafting workbenches. Sadly it is not so. :( While the SetGameSeeting console command works perfectly, there does not appear to be anyway to script the desired behavior. MOST IMPOTANT Questions: Why the :wallbash: is there no SetGameSetting() papyrus call? How hard would it be to create one in SKSE? How would you go about doing it? Would SetINISetting work in any way? Can anyone else see a workaround to create new materials, relabel the menus, etc? And ultimately... How would a SkyUI rewrite affect all of this? Is all of the missing logic connecting the various pieces contained native code, a script, a flash UI app? If I dig into how SkyUI rewrote the inventory menu, and apply that to the create oject menu, will I eventually find the queries that get the menu strings, select the material keywords, etc? For some of the earlier questions, I can probably conduct yet more tests to get the answers myself, but for the last ones, I have absolutely no idea, and would greatly appreciate help. My guess is that anyone who know how SkyUI really works could tell me where to look to find answers for many of these questions, and I would be very grateful. Sorry for the "Lengendary" length rant, but I've been accumulating a lot of questions as I learned about how the existing crafting system really works. While I could have gotten to my real questions more directly, I hope this posting will be of value to others interested in crafting mods. A similar posting may follow shortly on tempering.

I'd love to know the answer to this question as well. In particular, armor and weapon tempering appears to happen magically in native code (?), and while I've been able to approximate the formula, I have no idea where the actual implementation is at. Does anyone know more about where this is really at?