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Gets to live - I see no reason to kill him - The Blades? Pfah they're off their collective trolley and obsessed! Paarthurnax has helped me and been an ally and trainer. Is this the way I repay those that help? Not if I want to become KING OF SKYRIM! Ulfric is a Nazi and The Empire is finished. I save the place, get to ride Paarthurnax around Skyrim kick out the Altmeri Dominion AND Tullius and barbecue Ulfric. Where's my DLC?? I want to found a new Dynasty!!

You have come to the crux of the matter. Skyrim is short of options for all of it's quests big or small. Many 1st person RPG games now (eg Witcher) have options from which there are consequences depending on your choice(s). That's about the only thing that annoys me about skyrim you can't tell anyone to go boil their head and have the quest drop off your to do list. Does the dragonborn really need the Blades (apart from an academic point of view?) he doesn't rerally need either them or the Greybeards but at least the grey ones allow him to discover and determine his own destiny. As someone has already stated, Tiber Septim didn't fully trust the blades and only used them as and when necessary. I'd like the option to tell Delphine to go gnaw at the end of her failed plots somewhere else from our first chat and another route to Alduin's wall. After that the blades become superfluous anyway apart from old Esbern who is a font of knowledge which you could if necessary do without

Ok this problem does relate to a mod. The modder has been intouch and the fix is WIP

I have been playing Skyrim for some time now and have just started a new game. Normally when I first visit Whiterun carrying a plea for help for Riverwood I come across a conversation about military supplies for the Imperium between one of the Greymanes and the Whiterun blacksmith. Both characters are there (and stay there) but they aren't talking to each other. I'm guessing that there may be a mod conflict somewhere and until this chat happens the one with the Alikiri hunting the renegade can't start! Any ideas anyone?

I agree that the blades generally (even that rather nice spoken absent minded old geezer found in the sewers) should be treated like a suspect package - prodded with a stick in the hope that it would go away. After the discovery of Alduin's wall and it's embodied pictograms at no point did either the fifty something pub landlord or the seventy something librarian offer to help and/or obey the Dragonborn's orders. At that point they started to become part of the problem not the solution, unless of course you decide to play the game simply as a dragonslayer and general homicidal maniac. At that point I guess it doesn't much matter who or what you erase as long as you keep accumulating skills. I am more comfortable with the role of Dragonslayer as a defensive measure rather than as a pre-emptive strike. Of course if some flying ugly decides to incinerate my nice thatched roof at Breezehome and burn my stock of ingredients I am going to take exception to that much in the same way as I would at a charging mammoth interrupting my general revelry with a bunch of Nord partyers swilling mead in the middle of a blizzard - It does seem odd that Bestheda opted for a cross for somewhere between a 1st person rpg and a Wagnerian Siegfeid thus irritating both genre addicts and opera lovers simultaneously. Killing Paarthurnax in the overall scheme of things (vis a vis stopping Alduin) is only relevant to the fanatical blades. He doesn't represent an actual threat only a potential one. Personally I'm more concerned about dealing with the current problem rather than pursuing someone else's ancient and second hand vendetta. "Old Blade kill dragon me kill dragon that what me must be here for. Also me kill Adlmeri cos they strong and elves smell like sheepdip and too tall. I left that sort of stuff behind me after watching Clayton Moore and Jay Silverheels in the tv series " The Lone Ranger" . "Him dead ke-moh-sab-ee, me glad" They don't write scripts like that any more, or do they? Sorry I digress. Individual dragons represent a potential threat. I don't eliminate things because they might turn me into a crispy critter, only if they actually try to or have already dined on a few of the indigenous population! With Alduin organising them they are a problem -Head of the snake and all that. Dealing with unorganised dragons, sleeping dragons, those perched in an eyrie or on the shoulder of Akatosh (they're his kids why don't he do summat?), or just those using harsh language is a problem for another day or maybe not. Some guys offer giants a sacrificial mooer to stop them from eating the local children but has anybody ever tried to sing to them, lend them a book, a lute, twll a joke or something?

Well at least you have embraced the principles of the game which is, in my view, to eliminate everything that represents a potential threat. General Tullius does it. Ulfric does it so why not continue? The Greybeards, Paarthurnax, and the Blades, all have a very narrow and prejudiced view of what needs to be done. It's called crisis management. In Skyrim no-one wants to live with their neighbour. Talk about sectarian wars! StayFrosty05 has the right of it. It is very badly written in terms of role playing . There is no forseeable near future for either Skyrim or Tamriel that does not involve sudden death or a descent into barbarism and/or slavery. At a commoner level I guess that they have limited choices. Slavery under Alduin, the Altmeri, or Ulfric. Or maybe the Dragonborn has the vision and will to unite everyone? Can't see it in the script!. If you are looking for fleshed out roles for characters and maturely developed plot lines then Bethseda's TES is no longer the place to be. However it is still plenty fun at a basic kickass/dungeon crawl/exploration level and the graphics are stunning. Modders are busy doing what they did for Oblivion, though because of the bugs I can't see it being as good an end result. Nice point about educatiing the Nords though how they managed to even read or write in the first place is a little beyond me. Guess that was down to the Empire!. As for Nords co-operating with each other for long enough to allow the building of training schools and educational establishments? (They all hate mages) That's a bit like asking the Scottish clans to forgo all their blood feuds.

LIke a dream. Many thanks.

Thank you badbonebad. You went straight to the specific mod causing the problem for me. In doing so you saved me a lot of process of elimination work

Thanks

When I start a new game (like yesterday) the cut scene before the execution screws my game. I am ok until; me Hadvaar Ulfric and the thief get off the wagon. Things start to go wrong after that. I wander around the place and jump the queue heading for the executioner's block. Even before that when the character creation screen starts I am still in motion. Oncve I set my character's race and attributes I then take a stroll to the executioner's block pre-empting the guy who wants to get an early start on his journey to Sovngarde. Game stops at that point. Would this be a mod conflict? I have a few but have never had this problem before. The only recent change I have made which is slightly out of order is installing the Apaachii hairstyle update (not using NMM) and copying stuff direct into the data file (including the new esm)

Yep I like the idea of rubbing out or decommisioning the blades for being such a bunch of fanatical aholes. After all You are the Dragonborn and they are supposed to be serving you. Ok they argue about guiding you along the right path but extermination? There are far greater problems threatening Skyrim and the dragon one whilst immediate just needs to be brought under control swiftly while Skyrim is busy destroying itself. Controlling the dragon(s) may be possible while pursuing an eradication policy is doing nothing more than indulging old and very misplaced grudges

Whiterun. The Jarl seems to kinow what he is doing and quite sensibly has nothing to do with the Damn War. Good food and mead, and plenty of it. Prosperous but not full of pretentious social climbers, thieves and vagabonds. Plenty of trade, and trouble makers kept outside the door. A nice blend of respect for traditional Skyrim values and other beliefs. Jarl Balgruuf embraces the benefits that other races and assets like magic offer without sacrificing any core Nord values. All in all a good place to either bring up a family, adventure abroad, fight on commission with honour, or just simply pop down to the local ale house, and buy something for tea or a gift in the market. It is the one rare hold in Skyrim where in spite of the war people can it appears live together and worship who they want to without coming to blows, or falling foul of some prejudicial laws. Roriksted and Riverwood are a couple of well organised and supported outlying villages. While the presence of so much military reminds everyone of the need for discipline and control in such a turbulent nation it all seems to hang pretty well together The nicest part maybe is the absence of either an Imperial or Stormcloak presence

I agree in principle, although it's possible that none of the "main guilds" would object if you were also a member of the Bard's College. <sarcasm> After all, it isn't as though you actually learn how to sing, dance, play musical instruments, and compose/recite poetry there. </sarcasm> You still shouldn't be disallowed from interacting with some of those guilds, though. Just because I'm a Companion doesn't mean I don't need access to advanced spells, most of which can only be acquired through college mages, who won't sell them to you if you aren't a member of the college. Similarly, as a member of the College, I might do some "independent thievery" on my own, and they don't even need to know about it. Why should I have to join the Thieves Guild to use Vex as a fence? The guild needs money, so they need my business, whether I'm a member in good standing, or not. Honestly, though, I really doubt you'll see this happening in any future ES game. I think Bethesda has firmly rooted themselves into the philosophy that it's OK for them for them to railroad you into doing every single one of their "guild" questlines whether you want to or not. This is probably my biggest gripe with Skyrim, but is indicative of the increasing amount of hand-holding we've seen in ES games from Morrowind on. I'm fully expecting to see the next game come with periodic nags that pop up saying things like "You haven't joined the Thieves Guild yet!" Yes, more sarcasm, but let's face it. For a lot of us one of the most annoying things a game developer can do is to interleave missions so that you can't complete one without doing another one (that you might, for ethical/moral reasons, might not even want to do). Entanglement might be good for quantum physics. It's an extremely poor tactic in quest design. I think the point you make even using Noel Coward's critique cannot be denied. Other software houses like CD Projekt develop ist person rpgs using choice AND consequence. Denying players the right to choose whether or not they want to become guild masters is something Skyrim does but Oblivion didn't. One of the things that irritates me about Skyrim (and to be honest on balance there aren't that many) is the default number of quest lines that appear in my journal. Meeting Brynjolf? in Riften is ok but when as a Nord Skyrim warrior I find out that he wants me to plant false evidence I rightly deem that such an action is dishonourable even if it is against a forgeigner. However the quest line does not disappear! At least in Oblivion you didn't have to do the quests if you didn't want to. Joining the mages guild for example required you to gain approval from various local guild heads. After you became a member you got a nice comfy bed anywhere there was a guild house but you were not forced to take the path to leadership. Likewise in the fighters guild. For me the point about role playing is that to get the best from it you need to immerse yourself totally in the role. Warrior, mage or thief, each must have a worthwhile attainment attached to the part you play. I don't like getting confused about which role it is I am playing. I can always replay the game as one of the other types!. I think that Skyrim/EA has got lazy and budget conscious here. Rather than make the guilds a really worthwhile thing and properly develop them we get in each case a sort minimal effort to career progression within them. I guess that someone rather than do the right thing and flesh out the roles they just made you do all of the one's around to bump up game time. I think the game loses major points on this aspect of it - the faction quests are shallow!

Yeah, that's the nasty rub. I actually can only rationalize some of the stuff my char does by imagining that, after one too many knocks on the head, she went a bit schizo. Started out as, and often still tends to be, a shining light of virtue. But in order to get her favourite horse and go on some adventures she became a hired killer of innocent people (including the Emperor of the jurisdiction to which she swore allegiance for gawdsakes!). And even set up the DBH with torture equipment in their new digs (that still kinda bugs me). In order to get archery training and an opportunity to explore cool new environments with a couple cool (though criminal) companions, she started robbing (& framing) innocent people. The only limit on any of this is that she'll refuse to ransack the house of Mjoll the lioness. Although lately she hasn't completed any DBH hits or gone back to the sanctuary. I'd say it's 'cuz she's grown back a conscience but, let's face it, she got her fave horse (and has tons of coin) so it's pretty easy to be righteous when she's already got all she wanted from the DBH. If you want to truly role play and maybe take advantage of the games replayability aspect then I think it would be better that once you have cast your lot into one faction in Skyrim Companions, thieves, Mages or whatever you should maybe be prohibited from progressing in any other guild if not actually barred from joining. This will do several things the most obvious of which is to allow you to focus your skill development as an individual and set up a skill shortage selection criteria in any followers you may recruit. Unlike TESIV I see no particular benefit in taking on multiple faction quests. In Skyrim being a warrior with or without restoration skills is so de rigueur that becoming a thief/assassin or warrior mage means that you have to go througth the whole game experiencing at best tolerance for your skills or at worst downright prejudice or discrimination but hey if you are the Dragonborn then who gives a ?? Mind you there is a parallel with the Witcher here that even if you save civilisation from extermination and/or slavery you are still going to be despised as a mage anyway under the current game rules

I think there are bad sides to all the faction quests in TESV and that they tend to outweigh the good (if there are that many) with one exception. How do I get to this judgement? Well by drawing a comparison with TESIV guilds where they seem to have so much more immersion and depth. I tend to agree for a warrior the companions quest does have a much better fit than the others. Shame about the marriageable Aela wanting to retain her furry option. I bet she bites! As regards the thief guild I also was put off by starting off the thing by fitting up another trader. I agree that the guild itself appear to be no more than a bunch of thugs with extortion and blackmail their main source of income at the point of entry. As an NPC states during the game at least the DB have standards. Running a brothel, a string of cutpurses, and the occasional heist would put the guild more in line with the BG concept of TG which I am more relaxed with. Having said that there is an option to rather than "fit up" the guy in the market in Riften you can drop the ring. You still get in to the thieves guild, and the quest line does get more conventional. The big problem I have with the TG quest is that it doesn't give me the option to frame or otherwise debilitate Maeven Black Briar who is major competition. That woman gets right up my nose! Raymond Feist in his fantasy novels has the most accomplished thief becoming a duke and a member of the royal household. Somehow in Skyrim the thieves guild has lost all the influence they should have acquired which would put them on or immediately behind the throne of a Jarl. Maeven Blackbriar stands in the way of that so in that sense I think the TG quest line doesn't go far enough and needs to expand and perform it's civic duty by eliminating/recruiting/ organising the bandits that occupy some castles. Major source of road tax income there! On the subject of Winterhold and the mages guild I am also surprised than no Archmage takes on the job of disciplining the necromancers that have set themselves up in various castles and abodes around skyrim. Also destroying most of the hold they are based in doesn't do a lot for their p/r. There is a major task to re engender trust between Magic wielders (in Winterhold College) and Nords/ Skyrim citizens which the quest does not try to tackle. In that sense it is rather shallow, and maybe a tad too much consideration has been given to the Nords superstitious attitude to magic

I agree that the instruction from the blades to kill Paarthanax is about the only quest line that actually skeeves me out in Skyrim. The blades are the servants of the Dragonborn or they are nothing but a bunch of cultists who are just as radical and extremist as the Altmeri in their own way. Any grandmaster of the blades who thought he could take on a whole nation of High Elves (Ayleids) and win with a few sword carrying monks can't have had all his dogs barking! The dragonborn decides what the policy is not them and if you want to get rid of the major canker to peace in Skyrim the Thalmor are the current problem not all of the dragons. Personally I'd like an option that allows me to remove or re-educate the blades who have obviously lost their way philosophically. Dragons that are a threat need to be removed but personally I would rather make peace than war and the dragons potential as allies in that quest cannot be ignored. They are about the only thing that will make the Altmeri step back a few paces. A couple of Dragons devastating High Elf country will force them to the peace table and allow trade and progress for all to be restored. The Empire respected each province's religion and traditions, the Altmeri definitely do not and simply like the dragons of old desire to enslave. Dragons like mountains and I guess sheep and stuff. It's cold up in them thar mountains and some barbecued mammoth is a big meal for a family of four. I even as a Nord wouldn't want to freeze my nuts off up there other than maybe for a sightseeing trip. Mi casa es su casa? Live and let live I think where possible

@LobselVith66. Sorry can't seem to use quote facility so I'll copy/paste to effect I hope! Why should Sithis want the protagonist dead? Lucien Lachance even says at one point that he feels a disturbance in the Void, because Sithis doesn't want Cicero to be killed. The Night Mother chose the protagonist to become the new Listener, to send souls to the Void and become the savior of the Dark Brotherhood. If the Dragonborn dies, then who will send souls to the Dread Father? I did play the DB quest in Oblivion but I formed the distinct impression that death by assassination of a more skilled exponent of the art was pleasing to Sithis - hence the respect and accolade given by Athis? in Skyrim on her demise at the hands of the PC Hasn't that been done already, since the Champion of Cyrodiil achieves apotheosis by becoming a Daedric Prince? That wasn't my impression. The defeat of Mehrunes Dagon at the hands of the Champion of Cyrodiil was via the self sacrifice of Martin Septim in summoning Akatosh. Whilst the existence of Mehrunes Dagon was indeed removed from Cyrodiil and Tamriel the 16 realms of Oblivion remained intact and no new immortal or realm was created as far as I am aware in game. Having said that, I have noticed that rather cleverly a number of misleading, incomplete, or simply inaccurate historical tomes have been left scattered about in the Skyrim game for the PC to come across and read, so I guess creating a certain amount of unavoidable conjecture, and of course controversy While that criticism is made against Ulfric by his detractors, we never actually hear him say anything that would indicate it's accurate. When we initially enter Windhelm, we hear two belligerent Nords blame the Dunmer for not joining the Stormcloaks, so it's not as though non-Nords are excluded from entering the group. Even Jarl Igmund of the Reach contradicts the claims made in the Bear of Markarth that slanders Ulfric quite a bit. I don't think Ulfric or Tullius are bigots; I applaud that the narrative provides us with two well-meaning, but flawed, leaders. I agree that both are flawed but political chicanery has put the Imperials in the role of perceivable toadies and lickspittles to the Altmeri and the presence of so much bigotry, prejudice, and persecution unchecked in Jarl Ulfric's satrapy itself is indicative of his policies. There are many comments by NPCs which reinforce that stance and while on the surface Ulfric's cause is worthy of support for independence of Skyrim he undermines it by his active social policies in his own fiefdom. The future he offers is not an independent positive society, with justice for all but an insular one which reinforces and abuses the Nords superiority complexes- Man cannot live by armastery alone! These policies do not extend generally to the neutral Jarl of Whiterun, who has a muich more focused view of thelarger issues, nor to declared Imperial supporters who are generally dependent on the Imperials to maintain their political positions . I suppose it depends on who you you escape Helgen with as how biased to one side or the other you become initially. Ulfric's cause is a worthy one on the surface and takes full advantage of the rift created by the surrender of the Cyrodiil Imperials. Likewise long term residents of Skyrim (for example Alvor the Blacksmith in Riverwood) bring Ulfric's political campaign into perspective during their interaction with the pc - I smell a parallel here with the rise of National Socialism in Germany during the early 1930s. The downside to Tullius is that he is the head of a defeated army which offers no hope of expelling the Altmeri the real cause of Skyrim's problems. With Hammerfell successfully resisting the Altmers another battle on the Skyrim front can only weaken them. In my view if the game is about the future of skyrim and the restoration of it's traditions and religion then there is no choice but to align with the rebel cause but Ulfric must not be ultimately left in charge and he is not THE DRAGONBORN.

As a practical kinda guy anyway I think Red Rayvan makes excellent points. I believe in gaming of the RPG genre that dragons (and anyone or thing else for that matter) only need to be removed if they are a threat not a potential one, and certainly not because someone has seen a cave drawing or read it in a dusty scroll somewhere. Skyrim has a theme running through it which is full of ignorance, superstition, and prejudice - in other words extremes. What's left of the blades attitude is consistent with that but ultimately such attitudes are self defeating. The only feudal lord I've come across with his head screwed on and worth saving is Balgruuf the greater, and his line of succession looks about as desirable as the Black Death! The blades either need a new Grand Master (you) or extinction in their current form. Paarthanax? Well he seems a reasonable kinda guy even if he does set your hair alight now and again. Besides if you as Ismir are going to sort Skyrim out you are going to need some allies and neither General Tullias or Ulfric represent good options. The Blades in their current form certainly don't. Besides according to their ethos they are only loyal to the Emperor, not the Empire- Good job! he fired them so are they going to assassinate him and his line for denouncing Talos their patron? After all isn't your job going to be guardian or custodian of Skyrim's future? . Dragons are a real threat to everyone but if they (what's left of them) can be recruited as allies they can be used against the Altmeri who are the real problem. One step at a time. Skyrim first - the world next.Hope there's going to be a sequel

You are quite right I have not done the DB path but it seems to me logically that you just need to end up dead as I guess does most everyone else in that faction. After all Sithis IS insatiable . I did kill Athis?rather than murder one of the hostages in the shack on the marsh - I just changed the rules to suit myself. Her final words curiously were "Well Done" I got stuck in that because the quest line gave me no option but to kill the head of the orphanage I agree about the companions quest line. Have you tried to take down a giant in the early part of the game? One blow and "squish!" endof! That could have been fleshed out more I enjoyed playing a thief in Oblivion. It sort of fitted the role of jailbait and Blades Agent. In Skyrim the role is different and anyone who is not a mead swilling homicidal maniac is generally frowned upon by most of the population. Role playing anything but a Nord puts you on the outside so you might just as well be a thief. Wouldn't want to change anyone's idea of what a foreigner should act like Would you define the thief route as a solo quest? it just seems that taking anyone with you especially a housecarl is going to cramp your style. Housecarls have limited usefulness and followers do get in the way a lot except maybe Jenassa. Aela smells of wet dog

Well the bad thing I guess in every faction is that they are ancilliary to the main quest you have as dragonborn. The DB one you should end up dead if you really want to please Sithis! Everyone must do at some point. With the mages it's pretty much instant Archmagery based on the demise of the surprisingly dimwitted and incapable incumbent. The Companions quest is a little diverting but it doesn't actually go anywhere until Kazaam! There you are as leader. The only faction that seems to be worthwhile is the Thieves one but I haven't tried that yet and am saving that for a specific character. I should mention that as far as 1st person RPGs are concerned I see little point in doing "the lot" in one character. Each faction should I think be experienced by the pc as a separate character to fully embrace the RPG element of the game if of course you like playing different character styles. Even though the race menu gives you the usual options in Skyrim if you are not a Nord you are from time to time going to encounter some serious prejudice during the game This is a great game but I am surprised that no one (unless this is going to be released as an add on or a separate game) has developed a critical path whereby you as DB can become the new Talos or equivalent (smelling of dog or not). The old High king was weak by all accounts and nothing more than a puppet for the defeated Imperials. Ulfric is a bigot and an opportunist power grabber (he is a Jarl). Just take one look at his holding to see how he runs it. Neither High King (Imperial controlled) or the Jarl of Windhelm represent a really desirable choice as a future ruler. Choosing the lesser of two weevils is hardly and ideal selection criteria! Torvigg's widow is there and looking for guidance or something! There are various poilitical paths open for exploitation to become High King or Queen yourself He who kicks dragon butt marries Torvigg's widow or Ulfric (then has him quietly assassinated). Next episode The conquest of Cyrodiil riding a dragon and loads of Altermi/Thalmor butt kicking! Nice thought but not Bethseda's style perhaps!

Well I also refuse to kill Paarthanax. Isn't there a way to avoid the instruction to kill him somehow?Whatever, the point as I see it is that you don't actually need the Blades to kill dragons. You as Dragonborn are the only one who can make it a final act anyway and there are plenty of others around who are quite happy to do the job with you. This is Skyrim after all where something like 90% of the population are so gung ho they're almost want to throw themselves into the dragons jaws. The companions will do it just for laughs. What about the blades anyway? They are a bunch of total failures so full of angst paranoia and obsessiveness that to be honest you are well shot of them. They failed to protect the Septim bloodline during the Oblivion crisis and, for anyone who has played Oblivion, their bumbling incompetence in failing to protect the Amulet of Kings was pathetic and they had far more Dragon lore at their disposal then . They failed to deal with the Thalmor threat effectively once they identified it. They wandered around Tamriel for 200 years not knowing what to do, and finally when they do get a chance to serve the Dragonborn in stead of advising as the Greybeards do, they start making demands based on their old, outdated and strongly prejudiced views. The blades contribution apart from escorting the DB to Alduin's wall is zippo!

Spared him a couple of times. I think there is an option whereby you get to keep both of them but you need to have a particular conversation with Alastair on the subject of the Goldanna quest after the meeting between them in Denerim I recommend executing Loghain yourself. Justice for the slain Grey Wardens. Loghain was always going to wipe them out and you as well. Justice for the deaths of the Couslands. Loghain was the master planner behind that or at least complicit in it by letting it happen. Justice for the Howes at Redcliffe, and last but not least after accepting Loghain's surrender, loyalty to Alastair as a comrade in arms and the acceptance of his judgement. Though Riordan's suggestion makes political and logical sense I let Alastair's opinion overrule it. For Alastair it gives closureand delivers justice for the death of all his brothers in arms and Duncan who I never really knew. An added bonus is to make Alastair King. He is such a putz at being a grey warden and Morrigan is right he is a dimwit. Will make an ideal King and a favourite of the Chantry with his thing about mages and blood magic

Choices This is an easy one. Your duty as a Grey Warden is to protect against the Blight. Harrowmont has confessed that he will not be a strong King and will hold to the traditional ways. The traditional ways are getting Orzammar nowhere as they are fighting a losing battle against the darkspawn and have been for centuries. Ergo Bhelen has to be the choice. From the available candidates Bhelen is always going to be the better choice for the dwarven people with or without extra golems. if you play your cards right (as a dwarf noble) you can almost guarantee that Bhelen will not get too out of hand