refusedzero

@Vlits - I would check around Skyrim forums for that type of information/tutorial.

ma_ and ap_ keywords correct? or am I being dumb? That's what I've been counting. Edit - and my above count was nothing but non-vanilla ma_ keywords.

I have all of those except I fixed Homemaker to be 100% SK myself. Check my load order a few pages back, I meant 55 + AWKCR + SK + CW + AE + Homemaker, ect. I'm running a stupid amount of crafting/settlement stuff atm. I'm well past the cap but can't find any noticeable ill effects. I know I could push it further, but I'm curious if we can find a way to see if the bug is happening when it's not in-your-face broken.

Everything looks fine in my crafting/settlement menus though. No jumbled menus, no unavailable items, no invisible robots, nothing. I just counted my menu keywords and stopped when I got to 55. We gotta find a way to test if the bug is happening or not.

What's the best way to test if you have the keyword bug? With the invisible robots? I have significantly more menu keywords than vanilla + 40 and I'm running into no glitches that I notice currently. Pretty convinced I have the bug and just don't notice it yet. Any suggestions?

Oh, I got it patched to SK all perfect, was uber easy (sharing would be nice of you cuz it sure sucked making). I meat the overall formlist bug. I'm trying to think of experiments we can do to test our ideas on the problem.

I've seen enough reports of completely invisible robots that I think it's entirely possible for a whole list to drop off. I think people probably notice issues before whole lists start getting chunked out by the engine or don't notice anything until they CTD every 2 mins. In Skyrim the magic number for form lists to start freaking out was 128 elements or ids, I'm trying to figure out how to test that here. Edit - cleaning Homemaker.esm up and getting rid of those deleted keywords did make a hell of a difference though. I'm beating my head against the keyboard trying to figure this out lol.

Tonycubed2 said this while I was talking with him: "Not keywords. Formlists. Even though you could add 100s of forms to a formlist only the first 128 or so were used. Bet you that's the issue. Formlists or arrays maxing out. Solution is to make more formlists or with code simulate larger arrays. I do both." I think the bug is more than just keywords, I just think the missing keywords are the easiest things to notice screwed up (crafting menus and robots going invisible). I think the cap causes all sorts of havoc to other mods by messing with the ability of the engine to lookup form id.

I'm starting to see posts reporting CTDs on high keyword footprint mods like CROSS and Homemaker. This post stood out the most: "I have been having a problem with this mod- and any other mod that adds a new tab to the game. It just makes the game crash. Have you heard of this problem before?" I think the array overflow bug can cause CTDs after experiencing the issue myself.

I think this issue might go deeper than we think. I did a lot of experimentation, and, more than anything, organized the hell outta my keywords, and I found some interesting stuff. I forced everything on AWKCR and SK I could, made sure the standalone weapons I was using were set to rock AWKCR, deleted the deleted keywords in Homemaker (thank you for the good idea Battousai124), baked the entire SK Integration Patch from Homemaker directly into the Homemaker.esm (which sucked, NovaCora is a friggin' Saint for making the sk integration patch and maintaining multiple versions), baked the AWKCR keywords from the Grenade Expansion Pack patch directly into the mod, and a bunch of other crap I'm forgetting (but listed the important stuff). The biggest footprint by far was Homemaker. I didn't count how many deleted keywords I cut out, but it was a lot. GXP was a lot less keywords but seemed on the heavy side too. Here's what I noticed: I had previously been experiencing repeated CTDs near Station Olivia. I explored around a little bit (prior to cleaning my game) and noticed the Sentry Bot in the junk yard nearby was missing pieces on the back (funky orange boxes instead of the back parts) and I would ctd when entering the cell with it. I now think the CTDs were almost certainly caused by the Sentry Bot not spawning in correctly because of the keyword cap bug. Now that I have a lot less of a keyword footprint, the Sentry Bot is fine and no more CTDs. The crazy part to me was this was while testing on a bugged up, just had 60 mods cut from it/load order shifted around with heavy edits save. Even on such a broke save the CTD issue was gone, and it was 100% repeatable beforehand. I experienced new weather effects in Nuclear Weather that I had never seen despite definitely going through the storms previously. I had been talking with the mod author who had experienced the bug himself as well as users reporting it, and we were all running into the issue of shader effects not loading in proper. I have been trying to fix this problem for a few days now. All weathers now work perfectly (I tested all Nuclear Storms using console commands). I think the keyword bug was causing visual effect issues. Again, tested on a borked to high heaven save. Less noticeably I also experienced weather effects from True Storms I had never seen before. I got a dust storm after never seeing one despite an obscene amount of time playing with True Storms. I also experienced rain storms I hadn't seen, and I'm pretty sure small storm visual effects were now loading in that weren't there before (I'm not 100% on this because I didn't even realize it was happening before and can't think of how to test it). I'm pretty positive I'm experiencing weathers that weren't loading in properly before due to the keyword bug (again, not 100%, but the difference in weather patterns from before and after were seriously noticeable). This again on a super broke save.I think the keyword bug is plaguing a lot of people without them even noticing it. It's messing with things that are hard to notice (beyond the invisible robots), such as visual fx for storms, lightning, radstorm shaders, ect. I'm almost positive I was missing a ton of weather stuff and not realizing it, and Nuclear Weather was for sure missing fx because of the bug. Here's my load order. t is crazy super custom glued together with xEdit and is why it looks so weird, but I thought I should share because I'm using a lot of different crafting mods with different keywords than others posting theirs. I hope any of this is helpful. Let me know how I can better help y'all test this stuff. =)

Description of the bug and its' effects in Skyrim by Chesko More info from Chesko on the formlist/keyword solution Sample script fix of the issue in Skyrim by Chesko I hope these are helpful in anyway. From talking with a few Skyrim authors it appears a scripting solution is the only thing that will work (tonycubed2 was originally the one who pointed me to the Chesko thread Gambit77 linked previously). I believe the issue may be more than just keywords and actually come down to a formlist cap, but I am not 100% on that (this turned out to be the issue in Skyrim, the game couldn't look up formlists correctly when enough had been added). Maybe talking with F4SE team might yield some ideas? Again, hope these are helpful, sorry if they're not. Good luck in solving this!

Been wondering myself. I hate this feature lol. No time to investiage atm tho.