culaio

A person comes up to you with the idea of building a massive arena underground, not like in the settlements but a arena with criminal influences. After the arena is built by you you're given quests to expand it's popularity and to set up other things like a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets, a drug den with a drug lab and squeezing in on the drug trade in the commonwealth. Just came up with an interesting idea that requires the wasteland workship DLC. All you need is some imagination, really o.o This is not story mod using DLC as foundations its simply mod using DLC elements in it, difference is that building on fundations is building off the story that DLC had, while workshop DLC dont even have story to build from, whats more you can create arena mod easliy without even having DLC with cages and stuff, not a single thing from workshop DLC is needed to create your mod idea(I saw area mods from previous bethesda games that didnt had DLC's like this), workshop DLC has nothing to do with creating a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets. It's a story mod using DLC as a foundation. The foundation is the arena mechanic, the story is becoming a kingpin. The original DLC doesn't need to have a story to be the foundation of a mod that involves a story. Like I said nothing from this DLC is needed for mod like this, only thing this DLC adds is assets that can be easily replaced with stuff we already have in game or easily made by mod creator "easily made by mod creator" You don't even have any mods. Modding is not easy, especially making brand new assets. Honestly, if you're going to make an argument like that, you could say the Mothership Zeta DLC wasn't needed either. After all, a modder could have "easily" made the same thing. I actually didnt mean this type of new assets, I meant what mod creator can do from basic stuff accessible in game, I saw while ago someone make in game something that could work like 'cage'(made completly from basic stuff accessible in game) Also when I said easily I meant when compared to big DLC's and mods(modders are putting mods with models almost everyday on nexus, but big Mods are much rarer), I know that modding isnt that easy, I have nothing but respect for modders, but the fact that many modders create with similar amount of content to those DLC's for free makes bethseda look bad. Also while I am not a modder I did create few 3d models in my life for fun, so I know how much effort 3d modeling takes.

A person comes up to you with the idea of building a massive arena underground, not like in the settlements but a arena with criminal influences. After the arena is built by you you're given quests to expand it's popularity and to set up other things like a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets, a drug den with a drug lab and squeezing in on the drug trade in the commonwealth. Just came up with an interesting idea that requires the wasteland workship DLC. All you need is some imagination, really o.o This is not story mod using DLC as foundations its simply mod using DLC elements in it, difference is that building on fundations is building off the story that DLC had, while workshop DLC dont even have story to build from, whats more you can create arena mod easliy without even having DLC with cages and stuff, not a single thing from workshop DLC is needed to create your mod idea(I saw area mods from previous bethesda games that didnt had DLC's like this), workshop DLC has nothing to do with creating a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets. It's a story mod using DLC as a foundation. The foundation is the arena mechanic, the story is becoming a kingpin. The original DLC doesn't need to have a story to be the foundation of a mod that involves a story. Like I said nothing from this DLC is needed for mod like this, only thing this DLC adds is assets that can be easily replaced with stuff we already have in game or easily made by mod creator Nothing is needed to make a mod like Mothership Zeta but the mod author still did it. Just because "Nothing is needed" which is highly inaccurate again doesn't change the fact that it's part of the foundation of the mod. This is just you ignoring facts at this point. It's literally the same thing that Mothership Zeta Crew did, they took what was in a dlc and expanded on it's foundation. Literally the same thing Its not same, mothership zeta offers much more, it offers: story, lore, characters, themes(aliens), new locations, assets. you can easily create quest mod based on all of those but you cant really create quest mod based only on some assets as foundation.

A person comes up to you with the idea of building a massive arena underground, not like in the settlements but a arena with criminal influences. After the arena is built by you you're given quests to expand it's popularity and to set up other things like a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets, a drug den with a drug lab and squeezing in on the drug trade in the commonwealth. Just came up with an interesting idea that requires the wasteland workship DLC. All you need is some imagination, really o.o This is not story mod using DLC as foundations its simply mod using DLC elements in it, difference is that building on fundations is building off the story that DLC had, while workshop DLC dont even have story to build from, whats more you can create arena mod easliy without even having DLC with cages and stuff, not a single thing from workshop DLC is needed to create your mod idea(I saw area mods from previous bethesda games that didnt had DLC's like this), workshop DLC has nothing to do with creating a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets. It's a story mod using DLC as a foundation. The foundation is the arena mechanic, the story is becoming a kingpin. The original DLC doesn't need to have a story to be the foundation of a mod that involves a story. Like I said nothing from this DLC is needed for mod like this, only thing this DLC adds is assets that can be easily replaced with stuff we already have in game or easily made by mod creator

A person comes up to you with the idea of building a massive arena underground, not like in the settlements but a arena with criminal influences. After the arena is built by you you're given quests to expand it's popularity and to set up other things like a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets, a drug den with a drug lab and squeezing in on the drug trade in the commonwealth. Just came up with an interesting idea that requires the wasteland workship DLC. All you need is some imagination, really o.o This is not story mod using DLC as foundations its simply mod using DLC elements in it, difference is that building on fundations is building off the story that DLC had, while workshop DLC dont even have story to build from, whats more you can create arena mod easliy without even having DLC with cages and stuff, not a single thing from workshop DLC is needed to create your mod idea(I saw arena mods from previous bethesda games that didnt need DLC's like this), workshop DLC has nothing to do with creating a gambling parlor, a brothel, hire gang members to protect your assets.

While its true that not all DLC's for previous fallout games were amazing, they still were solid foundations from which modders could build, for example lots of people dislike mothership zeta DLC for fallout 3 but you know what, one of my favorite mods for fallout 3 was using it as its foundation: "MOTHERSHIP ZETA CREW: THE TERRAN STARSHIP COMMAND", it was DLC size in itself, had many new locations and quests, some of the coolest and funniest quests I ever seen, like teleporter malfunction which lead to our character being gender swaped, being teleported high above ground and being teleported back few seconds before going SPLAT, and even ending up in cave from which we see White-Gold Tower from elder scrolls(yup we ended up in elder scrolls world XD), sadly we get teleported back before we can leave cave. We could also walk on moon for a while in this mod, also there is quest with really creepy atmosphere that makes you expect something creepy to jump out at any moment. And whats more this mod was so popular that other modders created their own add-ons expanding this mod further, so yeah mothership zeta DLC maybe wasnt greatest but it lead to creation of DLC sized mod that lead to other modders expanding it further and something like this wont happen with workshop type DLC's since DLC's like this cant be used as foundation for story mods

It makes me happy that you are working on mod like this since I was always huge fan of power armor mods :) Reason why I asked all those questions earlier about power armor is because there is one mod I hope someone will make one day tony stark/iron man inspired mod, but not simple armor that someone is probably going to make sooner or later but quest mod inspired by stuff tony stark gone through, for example: we are kidnaped by raiders because of our knowledge from time before world got destroyed(we were part of millitary so we should posses knowledge about weapons) , they want us to build weapons for them but we do what tony stark did and build power armor from scraps, to escape and after that we build more and more advanced power armors. This mod idea isnt copy of iron man story since there are differences in the worlds, like for example the fact that power armors exist, but differencess like this is what would make the mod more interesting, but for this idea to work our power armors would have to be different then the ones in game which is why I think new power armor frame would be needed.

@TeamBacon Like I said before you dont have to replay to me. I never said previous fallout games didnt have flaws, like for example skills only mattering at certain points(25, 50 and so on), also I didnt say that fallout 4 doesnt have good things about it, I mentioned in earlier posts in this thread that power armor is best it ever was in the fallout series, the moment I jumped from roof of build to ground with made me feel like a GOD, I felt like I could take on anything :smile:, weapon and armor modding are also rreally great, I did exzpect slightly more from it but I still have lots of fun with it, shooting also is much better then in previous games but the thing is that all those things are just means to an end, they are things that are supposed to make it more enjoyable as you interact with the world(explore, interact with people, do quests and so on) and this is the part where game falls short, not only this wasnt improved its actually worse then in previous games. I will probably play your mod and will most likely praise it, even if it isnt my type of mod I will still praise since I have nothing but respect for modders who do stuff for free. Modders most of time create stuff higher quality then Bethesda.

@TeamBacon Of course everyone has right to like what they want, but it makes me wonder what exactly attracts you to fallout 4 ? even though not everyone liked world from new vegas(it wasnt for everyone) but generally everyone agree's that it had much more depth then fallout 4, the fact that you enjoy the most game that is the least bethesda-like RPG could mean that bethesda style RPG were never for people like you(I dont mean it in bad way, I just mean people who look for something else in game), but this is where problem starts, Is it ok for game dev's to sacrifice enjoyment of old fans who were supporting them for years to attract attention of new players, especially if it was possible to reach middle ground where old fans are satisfied while attracting attention of new players

@EmissaryOfWind But is it such bad thing to ask for fallout game made for fallout fans ? New vegas shown that it is possible to modernize fallout while keeping what fans loved about old games. Why Bethesda named this game fallout if they arent making it for people who liked previous fallout games ? by giving game name of old game series they create certain expectations that if not fulfiled lead to disappointment of players. @TeamBacon You dont need to replay to this, I just want to say that its not small amount of people that believe so seeing how many negative reviews from normal players game gets everywhere(it has lowest score of all the bethesda style RPG's, even lower then fallout 3 that was disliked by fans of first fallout games), of course I disagree with people giving it 0/10 but this game also doesnt deserve 10/10 or 9/10, and even though people give it too low score, but most of players criticies same stuff about game that is actually correct(like how shallow gameplay is, or bad dialogue and so on, most of stuff that I mentioned before) Yes many people buyed fallout 4 but many of those players expected to get game similar to previous fallout games but better(which means it got both new players and old fans) which they didnt get and probably wont buy next fallout game unless it will more similar to previous fallout games.

True but what exactly they are good for ? In their games story is pretty bad, gameplay elements are more and more simplified, games are fillled with bugs, after so many negative changes their games become pretty much modding sandboxes, it reached point that no one expects anything more from their games(bad story, bugs and simplifed gameplay elements is something to be expected, but fallout 4 gone much further with simplification then I expected), most of PC players play game for mods and not for stuff Bethseda did. So if they aren't going to fix problems their games have, then at least they could not make stuff harder for modders, they should do oposite acutally, modding is pretty much only thing that keeps their games going. They should improve modding which is strength of their games, I wont lie they did improved action elements in fallout 4 but at cost of RPG elements and roots of fallout games is RPG genre, so it was bad decision, they shouldnt try to bring new people to game at cost of old fans. This is so full of false statements I just don't have the energy to respond to it anymore... It is debatable what the actual numbers are, but it is clear that the vast majority of people who bought Fallout 4 do not mod. Tens of millions of people love this game in its vanilla state. Fallout 4 in its vanilla state is my favorite Bethesda game, and is up there on my list of favorite games to play in general. Modding does give Bethesda a boost in sales, but it is just a bonus and not the core. Tell me what exactly makes it good ? as a shooter its pretty average(there is many shooters that are much better then it), as RPG its very bad(its even inferior to previous Bethseda RPG's) it doesnt deserve "RPG of the year" it got a DICE there indie RPG much better then it, Graphic isnt up to current graphical standards I know its not that important since there are games with old school graphic that are really great(I dont personally care about graphics), it has horrible pacing issues: power armor is much too soon, I didnt find any real side quest in 30 hours I played(I know there are side quests in game but you cant really find any of them early in game, fallout 4 lacks any quest hub at the beginning like both fallout 3 and new vegas had), game is far too easy on any difficulty other then survival(I play on difficulty I used in previous bethseda game and every fight in game is a joke without me putting even one point into combat perks, even 'boss' fight in castle was easy partially because of previously mentioned pacing issues, game gives us very early fatman, missile launchers, miniguns which made boss fight joke,especially since game gives us from the beginning drugs that buff us so much that boss dies before reaching shore). Another problem is inconsistency/plot holes, for example we are parent who wants to find their child quickly..but then goes to build towns and do other stuff(its extremly immersion breaking), another example is power armor power source, its said in lore that power armor can function for 100 years non-stop on the power source and in game it doesnt last even fraction of it, yes the "corse" can be depleted but all of them in game being depleted... And many more... There is a lot of fans of previous fallout games that hope that next fallout game will be made by obsidan like new vegas was since most people agree new vegas was superior to fallout 4, hell there are people that believe that fallout 3 was better, fallout 4 simply gets boring very quickly.

True but what exactly they are good for ? In their games story is pretty bad, gameplay elements are more and more simplified, games are fillled with bugs, after so many negative changes their games become pretty much modding sandboxes, it reached point that no one expects anything more from their games(bad story, bugs and simplifed gameplay elements is something to be expected, but fallout 4 gone much further with simplification then I expected), most of PC players play game for mods and not for stuff Bethseda did. So if they aren't going to fix problems their games have, then at least they could not make stuff harder for modders, they should do oposite acutally, modding is pretty much only thing that keeps their games going. They should improve modding which is strength of their games, I wont lie they did improved action elements in fallout 4 but at cost of RPG elements and roots of fallout games is RPG genre, so it was bad decision, they shouldnt try to bring new people to game at cost of old fans.

No I was just speculating about reason why Bethesda make interaction with non-major character frequently non-existant, I didnt say that i was correct. I do know about how AMAZING stuff modders can do, and I saw modders overcoming limitations of modding, like for example mentioned by me earlier skill/perk tree limitations of skyrim, I didn see few ways to overcome it, like for example one modder fused two of existing skill/perk tree's and put his own skill in place of one of them, it worked even though it wasnt perfect and created a lot of mod conflicts with mods affecting perks, another mod creator created his own "system" inside of game related to his skill, that let his skill level from use normal skills in game. So yeah great mod creators most of time can find a way to overcome problems but the problem is that the harder something is to overcome the less mod creators will try to do it, for example adding perks to fallout wasnt really that hard so many people did it but on the other hand trying to overcome limitations of skill limit in elder scroll was pretty hard(unless you didnt mind breaking many other mods), and if I am not mistaken only few guys(you could count them on fingers of one hand) were able to create skills with their own systems. What I am trying to say that those limitations probably wont affect very experianced mod creators but will affect less experianced ones.It pisses me when game dev's created needless problems for modders, since it does affect less experianced modders. By the way I did some minor modding of skyrim before but that was mostly to fix mod that creator left broken. Even though more experianced modders wont have problem with It, it will create problems for less experianced modders since I saw many mods for fallout and elder scrolls that started simply from new dialogue that NPC option had I saw examples of NPC have two or three new dialogue options from different mods, please dont tell me they should get better at modding, I saw examples of iless experianced modders quiting working on mod because something in game was needlesly overcomplicated by game creators

@TeamBacon I know that Bethesda didnt put much effort into making non-major character actually good but I think that even if they made them better it would be unrelalistic to expect any dev to make dialogue on that level, dialogue for non-major characters is generally simpler, making dialogue for major character on level you mentioned actually makes dialogue for non-major characters look worse, this is probably reason why we have so little interactions with non-major characters, they probably dont want us to see how big difference there would be in dialogue between major and non-major character, either we would have longer more realistic dialogue with major characters and short realisitc dialogue for non-major character or we would have longer more realistic dialogue for major-characters and longer less realistic dialogue for non-major characters. Also I realized short while ago one major problem that 4 choice dialogue creates for modding: some mods change/add to dialogue of same NPC that exists already in game, for example as starter of quest or for example dialogue option to recruit that NPC as companion, Is there any way to overcome problem of multiple mods adding to dialogue of same NPC ?

@TeamBacon Of course no one will answer your questions at very beginning of converstation but generally after small talk they will be fine with asnwering your questions especialy after they see that you have no idea what is happening around, which is to be expect when you wake up in completly different world, also maybe its not the most realistic that most people would answer your questions but thats how dialoues worked in most RPG's to this point and thats the type of dialogues I like in games, I like finding about world from NPC's I like hearing about their background from them and I like hearing their opinions about stuff around them and other people. Yes your dialogue system is more realistic and its type of dialogue showing up newer RPG type games like mass effect, but problem with this type of dialogue is that even though it lets get to know some people in detail in realistic way, its not something that can be used with every NPC, especially if game has a lot of NPC's so you get to know certain group of people but in return you barely get to interact with or to know(or not at all) other NPC's because of that you dont care about other NPC's, they dont even try to feel like real people(the fact that they frequently dont even have name's make's it worse). So even though previous dialogue was less realistic, I still cared more about random NPC's in that dialogue system then in current one(of course in retun I care more about few selected characters that are important to story), since I could interact with pretty much everyone , even though many of them had to say only few lines or could ask them about stuff I asked them before, It simply is more immersive to me if NPC's always have something to say to me, even if that was something I heard before. I am starting to get the feeling that you can's accept that some people simply like more variety in dialogue, to some people something like this makes interacting with people and objects in the world more immersive. In different games I like different things, I never said I hate your type of dialogue but I like bethesda fallout and elder scroll games for freedom to interact with the world how I want, that was always strong point in bethesda fallout/elder scroll games,: extremly interactive world, those games never had depth of other plot focused RPG's but they didnt have to be enjoyable, I also like mass effect and games like witcher that have more depth and realism but when I want to play games like that I play them instead of bethseda games since they are much better at this then bethesda games but in return I wont play them when I want to play games with freedom of interactions..

@TeamBacon To me reali dialogue would look as mix of both tree's,it would have variety of second tree with branching of first, the dialogue you are describing seems to be very 'goal-oriented'(talking with people to achieve certan goal) fitting mostly for quests, but is pretty bad for type of dialogue that would help you better understand other people,their background, location and its history, one of my biggest problems with fallout 4 dialogue is that it doesnt let you ask question about people, locations and what is happening in the world, you should be able to ask this question pretty much any character living in the game(with few exceptions), questions like that are thing that adds most variaty to dialogue, I hate that I can't in fallout 4 get to better understand world by asking people about it. About skill checks: I dont think we will agree about this, fallout new vegas had much more variaty in skill checks then fallout 3 and 4(and old fallout games had also a LOT of them) and I played AMAZING mods that also had a lot of it, that were really loved by players(and made quests in fallout 3 and 4 look like horrible). The thing is that unless you play very general character build you wont really see all the options at the same time, so having many ways to do things is a good thing. To me its very immersion breaking if my character has certain skill/perks but game ignores them even though I am in situation where I should able to show off those skills/perks, I hate inconsistency like that Truth to be told I am not very impressed with fallout 4 actually of all the bethesda style games I played(and I played every game they created since morrowind), of all the games they made,this is the only one that is so boring to me, I played every of their games for houndreds and houndreds of hours but I got bored of fallout 4 after 30 hours(half of which I spend looking for something interesting to do), I am not saying that it doesnt have any good parts, for example I LOVE how power armor works in this fallout game(being like small vehicle) and how you can modify weapon and armors(even though I expected slightly more like for example being able to mix parts of weapons to create complelty new weapons, like for example: mix revolver chamber with long barrel to create revolver rifle or revolver shotgun) but I cant stand how much worse they made RPG elements in this game(dialogue, quests, leveing, ability to interact with the world based on your character skills/perks), I am asking all those modding questions because I am wondering(and hoping) if modders can fix what bethesda ruined for me :(