Well I pretty much figured out everything. A few things I cant do until we get access to dawnguard scripts, but w/e. Basically anything you add to vanilla scripts will work in dawnguard so long as they are not being specifically overwritten by dawnguard scripts..... So if i create a new ability and use the vanilla scripts to add it when you become a vampire it will add to danwguard vamp lords as well. But if I just edit lets say, the vanilla weakness to fire from 25 to like 300 it will get overwritten by the new dawnguard scripts which change it to 20. At least I think... unless this edit is created in a custom esp that is loaded after dawnguard... thereby overwriting the danwguard scripts.... hmmm tests!!!! Anyway thanks enchiwhatever for enlightening me to the cr thing!!! I believe you are absolutely correct MacManChomp thanks too, custom perks are usually the way to go. You know you can use the console to set shout regen to 0. I did it once and went around spamming fus ro dah on rapid fire. Pretty fun. Would be cool as a perk. A question though about perks. Barbarian an Armsman both edit weapon damage by 20,40,60,80 % and they both seem to use the same method, that is using the perk entry point "mod attack damge" and "multiply value" function. So how do the do perks differentiate between one handed or two handed weapons??? Do you know? On a related note what does AbFortifyMeleeDamage do? Trying to create a vampire ability that boosts weapon damage to give the illusion of increased strength and im not sure whether to create custom perks mimicking armsman and barabarian and use them as the effects of abilities or just use AbFortifyMeleeDamage. Thanks again.