EldritchEquations

Well, I just tried it again, another new game, and once again it crashed on reload in Diamond City. What would you recommend at this point?

Sorry about the slow response, last week was long... thanks again so much for all of this. Info under spoilers.

Can do, under spoiler. It looks like the very end of it is cut off, had to double-check but that's literally it.

Someone else pointed me at Fallrim Tools... I'm not sure why, as I have no idea what it does. I have it now, I guess? All they vaguely said was, "Examine your save." Yep, it's there. It still won't load after saving in Diamond City right across from the noodle stand, on a completely new save, with nothing but F4SE, UFO4P, Settlers of the Commonwealth, and now this tomfoolery. Then someone else said go get Buffout 4. OK, fine. So I go download x86, x64, and ARM64 of the Microsoft Visual C++-- as Buffout 4 doesn't specify which you need-- and xSE Plugin Preloader F4, Address Library, and Buffout 4. Game won't run at all now. HEADDESK Windows gives me the little circle like it's doing something for a second, and then nothing. EDIT: Changed the Load Method in xSE Plugin Preloader. Loaded. This is what I get from the Buffout log when I try to load into the save inside Diamond City. New game just out of the vault, F4SE, UFO4P, and Settlers of the Commonwealth. I save at the noodle stand, exit, and this is the reload attempt:

Someone else pointed me at Fallrim Tools... I'm not sure why, as I have no idea what it does. I have it now, I guess? All they vaguely said was, "Examine your save." Yep, it's there. It still won't load after saving in Diamond City right across from the noodle stand, on a completely new save, with nothing but F4SE, UFO4P, Settlers of the Commonwealth, and now this tomfoolery. Then someone else said go get Buffout 4. OK, fine. So I go download x86, x64, and ARM64 of the Microsoft Visual C++-- as Buffout 4 doesn't specify which you need-- and xSE Plugin Preloader F4, Address Library, and Buffout 4. Game won't run at all now. HEADDESK Windows gives me the little circle like it's doing something for a second, and then nothing. EDIT: Changed the Load Method in xSE Plugin Preloader. Loaded. This is what I get from the Buffout log when I try to load into the save inside Diamond City:

Yes. I have a clean save actually just before exiting the vault specifically for testing. I've been trying the method you suggested for months to find the culprit, but everything from the UFO4P to True Storms has done it to me. Which doesn't make any sense, thus why I'm baffled.

Yes. It loads fine. Honestly the next thing I'm going to try is getting rid of the Unofficial patch.

Just uninstalled everything with NMM, again. Once again, it loads fine. I save, close, and reload, and it's fine. This is a mod conflict, there's absolutely nothing else it could be, but I have NO idea which one. No matter what I uninstall, it doesn't solve the issue. As shown, I've had it down to TWO mods, literally TWO, and it caused this exact crash. UFO4P and Settlers of the Commonwealth, neither of which have any such reported problems. Neither do any of the other mods I've identified to be "causing" this and subsequently uninstalled. My modded game used to be the bright spot of my week, now I'm honestly so depressed about this half the time I don't even fire up my PC. I had hopes one day of releasing my own city builds, but at this rate of failure, I don't want to play anything anymore.

Been at this for months. Still no clue what's causing it. At some point, I thought pretty much every single one of these was the issue and obviously turned out not to be. Before I say this all again: Yes I've tried verifying my cache. Yes I've reinstalled the game. Yes I've reinstalled all my mods. No it doesn't happen on a brand new, clean save with no mods. Yes I've tried uninstalling them all and turning them all on one at a time. Yes I've tried installing them all and turning them off one at a time. I can't find the culprit.

I did. I've done this so many times I've literally pulled out hair over it. I think I nail down the problem, and then I find another mod that is also causing the exact same issue. And there's no way every single one of these highly reliable mods is the problem. I appreciate and get that it can be done. This is by absolutely no means the largest, most intensive, nor most complex loadout I've done. I built 16 settlements up, including every single one of the Triangle of Death, and saved the blueprints with Transfer Settlements using over 220 mods. Sim Settlements, armor mods, body mods, quest mods, Beantown Interiors, Atomic World, Lexington Interiors-- a ton of things you have are things I either have or have had, and have had no problems with. I've modded it way beyond this time and time again, but every single attempt in the last six months has just been random crashes. The Diamond City mods all work fine. I loaded them all up into a Profile, and I can get into Diamond City, save, reload, run into a building, save, exit, reload, etc. Stuck all my building mods in a profile. Loaded that up just fine as well. No problems. Uninstalling everything and testing everything one at a time has given me several false-positives. It's why the list is so small at this point, because anything that causes the issue I just immediately uninstall and continue along testing the rest of them. I have no confidence anymore that when I find one that's causing it that it's the actual problem, because I've had it reappear with so many different mods. Example: Everything else is disabled. It won't load Diamond City. OK, easy, right? Just get rid of 3DNPC_FO4Settler.esp Except, if I do that, I know from experience because I've been dealing with this absolute migraine for months, that it will happen again. And then I'll go do this all over again, and find some other mod, and uninstall that, and restart my game. I don't see anything on either mod page about it, but going to the UFO4P page to ask seems like a good way to get told it's absolutely any other mod but theirs. And in this journey of migraines, I've had false-positives several times where it's X mod, I take it off, and it's still happening. I've played with these two before with no problems. But short of someone on the 3dNPC page coming back to me or anyone else being able to verify this conflict, I'm back to exactly where I started of having no idea why this isn't working or how to even find out.

I honestly don't even know wtf. I disabled everything and I've been going through enabling mods one at a time, loading in, going to Diamond City, saving, closing, and reloading. Anytime it crashed with a mod enabled, I just took it off. But it KEEPS happening. I've gone from 200 to half that. I yeet something off the list because I enable it and it either crashes or fails to load DC after the save, and then it happens again. But this is such a small list at this point, of things I've used before on this PC, and never had a problem. I've started fresh several times now. I don't know what else to do.

I'm not sure if it was optional, I just saw a comment in the FAQ about needing the HD DLC. This seems to be the updated version, and it has links lower down on the page of face textures that the mod-dev says work well with it. I'd make a personal rec but I don't use any face textures for FO4 so I don't really know what's "the" face mod most are using. I only use CBBE bodies because some armors I want require it, but I always go with the closest-to-vanilla option. No worries about being a hassle, that's what this forum is for. If someone responds it's because they think they might be able to help so I've found everyone here is really patient. I'm a step beyond the "click and install" learning curve myself, but not by much, so if I think I can help with what may be a simple problem, I try.

Oops, looks like I accidentally deleted Question 4. Do you have any other mods installed? This is a texture for CBBE bodies, but if you say you have all the requirements, that should be fine. Did you make sure CBBE installed correctly before you installed this? I also see on the mod page that it says this is no longer being supported, it was last updated in 2018 and there have been multiple game updates since then, and your issue with the faces is a common one. Down the mod's description page it has an entry about the face bug possibly being caused by the wrong size textures, and that you need the HD DLC. You may already do this but I'd rather say something you may already know, which is always check the mod page and at least the first page of comments. The description and stickied notes will usually give you a lot of info you'd otherwise spend hours trying to figure out yourself. CBBE should be installed first, and then this. If you attempted to install it manually before you used Vortex, you should make sure you didn't move files somewhere they aren't supposed to be before going and trying a mod manager. NMM is still upkept by the community, but unfortunately I don't have any experience with Vortex. I've heard Gopher on Youtube covers a lot of stuff about Vortex, his videos might be worth checking out. I'd also go download LOOT and use it to sort your mods. It's not a catch-all, especially once you start installing a lot of mods, but it will generally put mods in the correct order. However, it may just be that this mod is out of date, or that the face bug issue was never fixed as I see quite a few folks in the comments there asking about that same issue. This stickied post is a great guide to getting stuff in order, I've been using it for a bit and I'm even getting help for some problems myself. It looks like a very intimidating wall of text, but it's a lot simpler than it looks, and it has saved me a LOT of headaches. Hope any of that helped.

1. Did you follow the instructions here as per creating/editing your Fallout4Custom.ini file? 2. Which mod manager are you using? It's usually not a good idea to install a mod manually unless the mod page specifically says so. I would also recommend Mod Organizer 2 or Nexus Mod Manager but not Vortex, as those are the two always recommended to me, and I have heard of some issues using Vortex. 3. Which face mod do you have installed specifically? Do you have all listed requirements installed? 5. Have you downloaded LOOT and used it to sort your mods?

Nup, crashed again at that same spot. Messed around with my load order a bit, didn't add or take anything away just tried adjusting placement of some stuff, but same result. I install them all in small groups of categories, and a good deal of them are things I've used successfully in the past. So I'm starting to think it's A) something I'm not as familiar with the stability of, and/or B) a conflict between two and not any one mod being a problem but the combination of them together. And what I have in spades right now that I haven't had much of in the past is adjustments to NPC dialogue. Like, five or six of them I think. The order could be wrong, or it could just be too many of them. After the last suggestion from NaiRae to check all my Diamond City mods, I loaded up JUST the mods that edit or add anything including NPCs to Diamond City, and it didn't crash. Maybe some sort of dialogue conflict is happening when I enter the city. I'm guessing but I can appreciate a lead, even if only a random feeling, because it's far preferable to having NO idea what to even try next. XD

How would I find out for sure? Does that mean another reinstall? (cries) Someone on another forum suggested I check True Storms, that the weather change might be kicking in and causing a crash. Especially since I have multiple mods that edit Diamond City. It said on their mod pages that they were all compatible, but NaiRae seems to think it may be too much. Considering she makes excellent mods that I've been using for years with no problems, I tend to think she knows what she's talking about. With the crashing, I've already abandoned my new game and gone back to testing. RIP Warren, we hardly knew ye. When I don't feel like tossing my PC out a window, I'll test True Storms next.

Nope, not using the same save. It's taken me months from a combination of what free time I have and wanting to do this right. When I started, I made a clean save with the base Nate in a completely vanilla game just after opening the vault door but before getting on the elevator. Basically, right before it asks you if you're OK with this character. I did all of my testing on that and never saved any of the testing, because I assumed it was just that, testing. I have heard "Thank you for choosing Vault tec" so... many... times... I'd install 5 mods. Load up that save just before the elevator. Wait a minute or two. Go up the elevator. Take two steps off. Wait another few minutes. Save, exit, reopen. Wait another minute just to be sure any scripts were taking their time. Then go wherever to test the mod-- Sanctuary for settlements, worldspaces or interiors for those or NPCs, major areas like Concord, Diamond City, Goodneighbor, Bunker Hill. Everything was fine in testing so a couple days ago, I started a new game finally. I thought everything was working fine so I took my sweet time going to Diamond City. Following Piper in, it crashed, and I thought, huh, that's weird... maybe it's a one-off. Tried again but no joy. A couple times, it will let me in, but if I save, exit, and try to reload, it crashes.

Still working on the same issue from back in December. I have no idea what else to do. Nothing I try ever permanently resolves the issue, including reinstalling the game multiple times, reinstalling mods, disabling mods that seem to be an issue and starting a new game, changing load order, checking Wyre, etc. Crashes in/around Diamond City keep returning. I'd be happy to ask on a specific mod page or just get rid of that mod entirely, if I had any idea what mod it is, but there's no consistent behavior from any of them. I guess I'll just keep asking. Longform explanation from original post. Load order behind the spoiler.

@JimmyRJump I've never used anything but NMM. It's what I started with back in the day and it's what I've stuck with. Honestly, any advice is good advice at this point. I've been modding my games for some years now and I still feel like a dunce. Which, I'm sad to say, I am still here. I've been testing this loadout slowly for months when I have the spare time, adding things in no more than 5 at a time and testing around the worldspace as advised. Everything seemed to be OK in testing. Wyre shows everything OK. I was so excited because I've been thinking that it's taken me months, but maybe I finally have a working game! As soon as I try to enter Diamond City, it crashes. I figured out how to look at my saves in Wyre, and they look fine, too. I disabled everything and tried "coc diamondcityorigin", and it loaded fine several times in a row. I slowly enabled mods one by one to figure out which one it is... except I can't replicate consistent crashes. I feel like I'm grasping at straws. As soon as I think I've isolated what the problem mod is, another mod that has never caused me issue is suddenly also causing the CTD. I've disabled and enabled the suspected "problem" mods, with no consistent CTD for any of them, only going by "I disabled X, it crashed resolving into DC, let's go to Y", and the problem continuing to persist even after I disable them. I'm wary of even continuing to look for the problem because experience thus far has shown me that something else will shortly rear its head. I have some 3k hours in Fallout 4 since release, most of that with a heavily modded game, but I can't for the life of me get a working game for about the last six months. I've reinstalled every single mod, and the game, so many times, read and read... I'm so exhausted and discouraged I'm just ready to throw in the towel. Is there a system out there for Fallout 4 like Wabbajack, where I could just take someone else's working mod load?

That's what I thought, as per never moving DLC's. Thus my confusion. Thank you, the help is very much appreciated. It wasn't that I skipped around or missed anything, I was confused. I know a lot of people have a tendency to not read things, but I did, thus my comment earlier: "Posted 27 December 2020 - 12:22 AM 1) Yes, in Wyre. I did understand that, but moving them around didn't turn them green. When I clicked on an orange mod and clicked "Show Masters" or "List Masters" I think it is, the files were already in the order shown in the box. The only thing that turned them green was using "Resort Masters" from the bottom of your guide. I got everything in Wyre to turn green that way, but the game was still crashing." I had the terminology off, but I did read the entire guide. I was asking at the start what the difference is between when you must move a mod around, or when you must Sort Masters. I didn't know what particular signal I should be looking for that moving a mod around won't do anything and to sort the masters instead, and the answer seems to be: when it isn't possible to move it because the mod author didn't have their own files in order. Whatever was causing my game to crash before is fixed now after getting rid of everything and starting back with a totally clean, new game. I think in my attempt to fix a load order issue, not quite understanding what to do when, I borked something up. In any case, armed with that knowledge and a little more confidence, I'm back to it. Thank you!

I've restarted the task of putting everything back. I've run into an incident that seems to be relevant to the issue before. I just installed True Storms, sorted with LOOT, and this is what Wyre is showing me. If I move "TrueStormsFO4-NukaWorld-FH-Compat.esp anywhere else-- up or down-- it goes from Yellow to Orange/Red. It won't let me move DLCCoast.esm under TrueStormsFO4.esm. I see the box on the right that says "LO", but I don't understand what "MI" stands for and I also couldn't find it in the Wyre wiki... my best guess would be "Master Index"? And unless that's the box you're talking about, I don't see the box you were referencing that should tell me the correct load order. I have to admit to being suspect of "MI" being the correct order anyway, as it's telling me to put a mod ABOVE an official DLC. However, if I load it all into FO4Edit, I don't get any error, just "Background Loader: finished" like I was seeing before.

1) Yes, in Wyre. I did understand that, but moving them around didn't turn them green. When I clicked on an orange mod and clicked "Show Masters" or "List Masters" I think it is, the files were already in the order shown in the box. The only thing that turned them green was using "Resort Masters" from the bottom of your guide. I got everything in Wyre to turn green that way, but the game was still crashing. 2) I didn't see this box, but I'll have to re-download everything and try again. 3) I did have a few mods that were orange in Wyre, and I resolved them as stated above. When the game continued to crash, though, I opened FO4Edit with all mods selected, and just as in Wyre, they were all green. I tried "Apply Filter for Conflicts" by following another guide, as I thought it might tell me what was wrong. Again, none of them were showing orange or red, but there was orange and red inside of their records. That really confused me because my understanding had been that the steps I had just performed were for the purpose of resolving those, but I'm also a novice at this so I couldn't be sure. I didn't know what to do there and didn't want to mess anything up further, so I just closed it without doing anything else. 4) I don't know how to make a MERGED patch. I went to the bottom, clicked on Bashed Patch 0.esp, and selected Rebuild Patch. Afterwards I opened NMM just to make sure it was on the bottom and check marked, and it was. I also posted about this here with a step-by-step of what I did and my load order. BTW, I really don't mean for all these questions to come off as ungrateful. I really appreciate that you responded, thank you! I'm going to try again... from scratch. I understand that it's a bit hard to help someone fix their car if they disassembled it in frustration. Which would bring me to my last question since I'm going back to square one, and I've seen a lot of conflicting information on this. Do I clean the FO4 DLCs? Some people say yes you must, others said no don't. I've cleaned Skyrim's DLCs before, but I know if you clean NV's DLCs, you'll bork everything. Last time around, I used QAC on the FO4 DLCs. Was that correct?

"2 - how to change the mod load order - open Wrye and look in the bottom left corner, see the blue ? click it and that opens the help file, everything you need to know is in there" Where do I go if it isn't? I've honestly no idea what I'm doing, even after reading this and following it to the best of my ability. Almost all of the guides have the same attitude that "everything you need to know is right here." For example, you said: "When you run Wrye Flash if any checkmarks are not green, those mods are causing problems in your game, you make them turn green by dragging them up or down in your load order in wrye flash till they do turn green." Do we drag the mods up and down, or their masters? Your guide has referenced moving the mods themselves, as above, and twice referenced the masters, but regardless, doing either didn't do anything. The only time they turned green was by the FO4Edit to "Resort Masters." Because you say lower down, here: "Clicking on the orange/red mods will show you what masters they have, and what order they want them in. From here on in, it becomes like a puzzle: you need to manually drag and drop the various masters in your load order until their order is harmonious ( IE:. you've managed to provide the desired order of master files for every single ESP in your list simultaneously ) and all of your oranges have disappeared." So that makes it sound like the masters need to be moved. Which is it? How do I know where to move them? Do I just drag each and every orange mod to every single possible slot one at a time until it turns green? What if they never turn green no matter their placement, as I had happen? What if their masters ARE in the order it says to have them in and they're still orange? What do you do if you've turned them all green and your game still crashes? In reference to FO4Edit, you said: "3) FO4EDIT is used to do 2 things, (A) verify that your load order is not missing any files that your mods need and (B) verify that no primary files are being loaded after secondary files. When you run FO4EDIT it will throw up an error box and the error will be displayed at the bottom of the right pane / panel. All you have to do is read what it says and it will tell you exactly how to fix the problem in Wrye Flash. Yes, you can open Wrye Flash while FO4EDIT is open so you don't even have to write down what the error is" Except it doesn't? How? How do I verify it's not missing any files? How do I verify that no primary files are being loaded after secondary files? You said that it does this, but not how we would execute such a procedure. "When you run FO4Edit..." The program doesn't just open with an error. Do I load all of my mods into it? Because most guides tell me to only ever load one mod at a time in FO4Edit. Do I just load one mod at a time, say an orange one? How do I get it to tell me if there is an error? When you load things into it, all it says on the right is "Background Loader Finished." What do I do to get an error report? "All you have to do is read what it says and it will tell you exactly how to fix the problem in Wrye Flash." Except... it doesn't. I read a few other guides, loaded all of my mods into FO4Edit, and chose the button to find conflicts. Expanded a bunch of the drop-down menus on the mods themselves and a whole bunch of stuff is red and orange inside. I've done manual reinstall. I've tried redownloading. I went back and verified with this guide and several others that I followed all the steps correctly. If I download mods with NMM and just use LOOT, my game works, I can play, and after maybe 80-100 hours my game stops working, which was fine. If I clean my DLCs, mods, make a Bashed Patch and try to use FO4Edit, I get constant crashes even trying to test with just 5 mods at a time. In a stream of tears and frustration this morning, I deleted everything and I'm starting from scratch for the third time this year. PLEASE, is there anything out there simpler to explain all this to me?

The problem: CTDs in and around Diamond City Programs: NMM, LOOT, WyreBash, FO4Edit I have a hefty load order, which I'll be posting below. As early as May of this year, I had a working load-out, with these specific mods plus a few more, and a slew of Sim Settlements mods. No problems, really... but I had a lot of time this year so I decided I'd try to step up my modding skills, since I do like playing with a lot of mods. And I can't even reliably recreate what I had before. I'm at my wit's end, I feel like I'm obviously doing something wrong, so here I am for help. Here's what I've done, just to give an idea where I've been: 1. Clean install of FO4. Made a character, saved. Everything worked fine. Then the essentials: NMM, LOOT, WyreBash, FO4Edit, all good. 2. Cleaned vanilla files one at a time using QAC in FO4Edit as per following GamerPoets' videos. Made sure they were in the right order. 3. Installed F4SE. Loaded game to be certain it was working. OK. 4. Duplicated Clean profile to make a "Modded" profile in NMM. 5. Install 5 mods at a time. 6. Sort with LOOT. Clean whatever LOOT says to clean in FO4Edit, one at a time. Resort. 7. Open WyreBash, look for Orange or Red entries. No Red, some Orange. Show Masters. Make sure Masters are in the right order. 7a. Barring that, move the mods around until they're green. 7b. Barring that, open mod one at a time in FO4Edit, resort masters. 8. When all is green, rebuild Bashed Patch. 9. Load game and play around in world a bit to make sure mods are all loading correctly. Restart with 5 more mods at Step 5. 10. Hit Diamond City mods... Subways of the Commonwealth, Diamond City Expansion, Diamond City Outskirts, Diamond City Defenses, and Home Plate Workshop Settlement... instant CTD in and around DC and Concord. 11. I tried moving SoTC and DCE all over the place and then load the game, but coming anywhere near or in the areas either touched caused CTD. 12. I reinstalled both just to make sure it wasn't a bad install. Still no go. 13. I removed SoTC and went back to a save before I installed the 5. This got rid of various crashing in the worldspace outside of the stations, but Diamond City was still crashing. 14. I removed DCE again using a save before the group was installed. I fast traveled to DC, no crash. I went in, fiddled about a bit, exited from the front entrance, crash. When I reloaded, it let me leave, re-enter, save in the Dugout Inn, reload, fast travel to Sanctuary, and fast travel back to DC and go inside. Now... I COULD just be happy with with that. The obvious answer seems to be DCE... but it's worked in the past. So has SoTC, and most of the time the mod is not at fault, the user is. I figured I've been watching a ton of videos and reading a ton of material, so maybe 'Apply Filter for Conflicts' in FO4Edit would help me. Holy cow, So. Much. Red! It seems easier to just take DCE off of my game, but then again, I already chopped SoTC off. I see red and orange with a bunch of mods that I thought were fine. I feel like this is going to keep happening until my game is unplayable. I read/watched some tutorials that said some conflicts shouldn't be touched, but not much explanation on how to tell the difference. I've watched some videos on example conflicts being resolved, but they were fairly simple Armor mod vs Armor mod entries, and there seem to be a LOT more entries with errors for worldspace-changing mods. I honestly don't even know where to start, even after having read through a good portion of the xEdit articles several times. I tried searching for more videos, but I don't know what exactly I'm trying to do. It's a bit difficult when you're not certain you're asking the right question, to get the correct response you need for your specific problem. This is the second time this year I've gone back to square one and had something catastrophic go wrong in building my modded game, that I feel beyond my knowledge to resolve. I want to get better at this, because it's something I love, but I'm feeling like the more I learn, the worst my loadouts get. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi there, long time modding fan since 2012. First time posting here as well so if I get some etiquette wrong, I apologize. I took a break from the community for most of 2018 and am just returning now. A lot has changed! I haven't run into any problems with Fallout 4, but there's so much that's different about FO3/NV/Oldrim that I'm not sure what's accurate. I've been reading everything that I can so I know what I'm doing, but much of it is contradictory. Any insights would be helpful, even links to guides! I'm not averse to reading my way out of a problem. Anyway, let me get right to my current problem-- LOOT doesn't seem to be sorting NV. There's mods I'm looking at that I know for a fact are in the wrong place, but it won't move them. LOOT is in administrator mode, and it sorts Fallout 4 just fine. Steam and LOOT are both directly on C drive. New Vegas is up to date. I'm using NMM v0.70.8.0 from the GitHub site. I've been told that Vortex or MO2 are better, but I tried my hand at Vortex for SSE and feel that I should spend more time watching videos and reading guides before switching over. I just don't feel like I understand it well. The same goes for MO2, but with the added disadvantage that I've heard a few sporadic reports that it's "garbage", which I take with a grain of salt because when I did attempt using it, I felt like it was a capable system that I was just too ignorant to use correctly. If NMM is the problem here, I suppose this loadout will have to wait until I'm a bit more familiar with another organizer, but I'm hoping not. I'll post my loadout below, as per LOOT's sorting: 0 0 FalloutNV.esm 1 1 DeadMoney.esm 2 2 HonestHearts.esm 3 3 OldWorldBlues.esm 4 4 LonesomeRoad.esm 5 5 GunRunnersArsenal.esm 6 6 ClassicPack.esm 7 7 MercenaryPack.esm 8 8 TribalPack.esm 9 9 CaravanPack.esm 10 a YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm 11 b FreesideOpen.esm 12 c Sortomatic.esm 13 d SomeguySeries.esm 14 e Detect Traps.esm 15 f Advanced Recon Tech.esm 16 10 NVInteriors_Core.esm 17 11 New Vegas Redesigned 3.esm 18 12 FCOMaster.esm 19 13 AWorldOfPain(Preview).esm 20 14 NVInteriors_ComboEdition.esm 21 15 Gomorrah Redesigned v2.esp 22 16 The New Bison Steve Hotel.esm 23 17 AWOPDeadMoney.esm 24 18 Bitter Springs Redesigned.esp 25 19 Uncut Road to Legate's Camp.esm 26 1a Freeside Open - AWOP.esm 27 1b Project Nevada - Core.esm 28 1c Project Nevada - Equipment.esm 29 1d Project Nevada - Rebalance.esp 30 1e Project Nevada - Cyberware.esp 31 1f Project Nevada - Extra Options.esm 32 20 Caliber.esm 33 21 CaliberXgunrunners.esm 34 22 CaliberXhonesthearts.esm 35 23 Sortomatic-AWOP.esm 36 24 YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp 37 25 The Mod Configuration Menu.esp 38 26 Project Nevada - Rebalance Complete.esp 39 27 New Vegas Redesigned 3.esp 40 28 NVInteriors Addon.esp 41 29 NVInteriors Addon FO.esp 42 2a Project Nevada - All DLC.esp 43 2b NVInteriors_Rewritten.esp 44 2c FCO - NPC Changes.esp 45 2d Uncut Extra Collection FSO.esp 46 2e outsidebets.esp 47 2f FreesideOpenPatch.esp 48 30 Uncut Wasteland FSO OB.esp 49 31 FCO - The Last Few Edits - Complete.esp 50 32 Project Nevada - Gun Runners' Arsenal.esp 51 33 EVE FNV - ALL DLC.esp 52 34 AWOPCaliberXAmmoPatch.esp 53 35 WeaponModsExpanded.esp 54 36 AWOPMonsterPatchVanilla.esp 55 37 FLVJOD-Freeside OPEN.esp 56 38 1nivVSLArmors.esp 57 39 WMX-DLCMerged.esp 58 3a WMX-EVE-AllDLCMerged.esp 59 3b AWOP-WMX-EVE AllDLCMerged.esp 60 3c Project Nevada - WMX.esp 61 3d YUP-WMX-PN-PNEO Patch.esp 62 3e Unofficial Patch Plus.esp 63 3f Unofficial Patch Plus - Companion Suite (No Carry Reduction).esp 64 40 Unofficial Patch Plus - Companion Suite (No Damage Nerf).esp 65 41 Unofficial Patch Plus - Companion Suite (Vanilla Effects).esp 66 42 Unofficial Patch Plus - Custom Companion Suite Template - Copy.esp 67 43 188improved.esp 68 44 The New Bison Steve Hotel.esp 69 45 kochandbohr.esp 70 46 AWOPDeadMoneyVendorPatch.esp 71 47 Uncut Cottonwood Cove Shack.esp 72 48 AWOP Revs - You Are Still The Hero.esp 73 49 NewVegasBounties.esp 74 4a Russell.esp 75 4b AWOP - Russell.esp 76 4c Delay DLC - DM + HH + OWB + LR + GRA.esp 77 4d athornysituation.esp 78 4e awilderwasteland.esp 79 4f NewVegasBountiesFSOPatch.esp 80 50 NVInteriors - FLVJOD Freeside Patch.esp 81 51 FSOmusic.esp 82 52 Uncut Greenhouses.esp 83 53 Freeside Open - Russell.esp 84 54 JIP Companions Command & Control.esp 85 55 JIP Improved Recipe Menu.esp 86 56 The Weapon Mod Menu.esp 87 57 Project Nevada - Cyberware Additions.esp 88 58 Vanilla UI Plus.esp 89 59 Detect Traps - Traponator 4000.esp 90 5a Detect Traps - Perk.esp 91 5b Detect Traps - DLC.esp 92 5c Advanced Recon Tech.esp 93 5d Advanced Recon Gear.esp 94 5e Advanced Recon Gear-Locations Doc Mitchell.esp 95 5f Advanced Recon Gear - Project Nevada.esp Project Nevada - Lonesome Road.esp 96 60 Advanced Recon Patches.esp 97 61 Advanced Recon Tech - Detect Traps.esp 98 62 CASM with MCM.esp 99 63 Further3rdPersonCamera.esp 100 64 NevadaSkies.esp 101 65 Mojave Nights.esp 102 66 Ragdolls.esp 103 67 DeadMoneyFemaleTuxedo.esp 104 68 FCO - The New Bison Steve.esp 105 69 FCO - OHSB NPC Edits.esp 106 6a FCO - Russell.esp 107 6b FCO - Race Addon.esp 108 6c New Vegas Redesigned 3 Path Fixing.esp 109 6d FCO - PathFixing Vanilla.esp 110 6e Roberts_NewVegas.esp 111 6f FCO - Roberts Patch.esp 112 70 AWOP Revs - Scaled Goodsprings Fight.esp 113 71 AWOP Revs - Help In Goodsprings.esp 114 72 CAGE 1.9.3.2.esp 115 73 Distributed Necklaces and Chains.esp 116 74 Holster Gear.esp 117 75 1nivPNSLPatch.esp 118 76 YUP-Spice of Life Patch.esp Project Nevada - Dead Money.esp Project Nevada - Honest Hearts.esp Project Nevada - Old World Blues.esp 119 77 Unofficial Patch Plus - Project Nevada Patch.esp 120 78 Unofficial Patch Plus - Addendum.esp 121 79 WMX-POPMerged.esp 122 7a Project Nevada - EVE All DLC.esp 123 7b AWOP-NVR3.esp A few last notes with some general questions: I'm aware that LOOT is telling me I have extraneous versions of Project Nevada installed, but I'm not quite sure how that happened. Previously, before my break, I had always modded FO3 and NV using FOMM. Besides the normal troubleshooting, I had very little problems. However, I thought I had correctly installed only one instance of Project Nevada, but NMM seems to have given me the entire package and only allows me to uncheck a specific plugin. With FOMM, IIRC you had to specifically choose which plugins to include. Obviously I've done something wrong, but short of starting over, I'm not sure how to find that error. I choose which mods I want ahead of time and put them in a list, read their description pages and usually the first page or two of comments, arrange them in small groups of 3-4 as per the order I want to install them, then I slowly install and check the game with a "Dummy" new game to see if everything looks OK. Is there a better or faster method that I'm missing? This method used to work great for me, especially with keeping patches straight, but with this current loadout of NV, I'm finding a lot of conflicting patches. As an example, ModA has a patch for ModA+ModB, but ModB also has a patch for ModB+ModA. Sometimes I will also find a ModC which claims its entire purpose is to correctly bridge the gap between ModA and ModB, and that all other patches are deprecated. I try to make my decisions based on which mod seems to be the most up to date, the reception/reactions in the comments, and the number of endorsements. Is there no better way? Is it truly just trial and error, and keeping in mind or to text past experiences of what worked? Specifically, with this last bunch, I've had FCO, FNVR, Robert's, and Type3 working nicely together in previous games. I checked the versions against the guide I use, followed a pretty familiar set-up process, then found a completely contradictory method from the FNVR creator. I saved it to try next. I think I'll need it though, because when I did the in-game check, there's some odd things about my male PC's body. For instance, there's nipples on his knees, the contour of a ribcage on his back, and a black bar where chest hair should be. I unclicked a few things, moved some things around as per the guide, but there's no change. I COC'd about the world a bit, and everyone else looks fine, but I also can't see under the males' clothes, so I can't say for sure that there bodies also aren't effed. On this, I'm clueless. What's your experience? Are FCO and FNVR completely incompatible? Should I use the up to date versions, or the old versions, as there are guides that respectively recommend both? Is there a looks overhaul mod for both genders that is less complicated? Is Robert's the problem? On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid do I sound? Anyway, lastly, I have about 25 more I plan to add to this loadout. However, I've always operated by a rule of trying to stay under 120, but I've heard recently (and found with FO4) that this rule no longer seems to apply, or else I was following erroneous advice the entire time. Either way, am I asking for too much? Is there a set number of plugins I should absolutely be under, full stop? Thanks for any time or advice, it will all be appreciated.