that's correct on bashed patch: it is vital. actually it's the only way to play with some mods together. or anything that change the same thing more than once in a different way. records work like trees. you have one that changes something down the tree, then comes another mod that changes something else in that tree, it doesn't really change that single value. instead what happens is that mod #2 replaces the whole tree and the changes in mod #1 are lost. so BASH ...ALWAYS! edit: wow, i don't see how you could have been playing with apocalypse, perkus maximus and better quest objectives all at once without bashing....and without crashes!