colourwheel

How can you even argue that both parties are "equally" to blame for the shutdown when Ted Cruz did a 21 hour "fake" filibuster urging for a shutdown if Obamacare wasn't defunded, delayed, and repealed. Granted this was not what the Republican party as a whole wanted to do initially but "if" they strongly felt the ACA was going to be so bad then wouldn't it be politically beneficial to their party to let the law fail on its own? They just don't want to give the program a chance regardless if it works or not... This whole mess is over ideology and a battle they know they can't win when the republican party only controls one part of government.... Not to mention the Republican party is fighting with its self over this mess too... The affordable care act was already funded and was ready to launch on October 1st. The demand to unprecedentedly abolish a law trying to force it through a continuing resolution is just not even realistic especially when they are offering to fund the government only for a few more weeks over getting rid of something that took years to create.... You might think BOTH parties hold "equal" responsibility for this mess but good luck trying to convenience the whole nation without a strong argument putting "equal" blame... The Republicans idea of negotiating is like punching someone in the face and offering them the choice of either being punched 5 times or 10 times in the face.... That's not negotiating to me... The republican party "only" wants the nation to positively succeed "only" if they control the government.... Otherwise they just want the nation to fail and don't care who gets hurt in order to gain political power..... The Republicans just look greedy for power....

You seem to be confused. The Democrats in congress over the past year have requested a conference committee 17 times over "legislation" in general each time with the Republican party saying "no, we will not compromise or debate on anything." The bill that was past 6 months ago by the Senate was instantly rejected and denied a conference committee. This being said its ironic only now The Republicans request a conference committee to debate a budget only after they have forced a shutdown when the republicans in the house already had a majority of votes to pass a clean resolution for funding government even without sticking ideological demands to the bill.... Let me ask you this.... Who did a "fake" filibuster last week urging for a government shutdown if the affordable healthcare act law is not beaten down? Now that Ted Cruz got what he asked for the republican party is trying to put the blame on democrats? Sorry I don't care if you think I am listening to only one side of the issue and disregarding the other. These people are reckless and don't even believe in government, they have no business even being part of the legislative process of government if they are willing to shutdown government over ideology....

Over 70% of the nation is already blaming the entire Republican party for the Shutdown and also well over a majority of the nation blaming the Republican party for government dysfunction. Congressional Republicans in office have just been polled today at a record disapproval with favorability of only 7%... The main reason why Democrats are refusing the republicans request for a conference committee is because for the almost over a year congressional Democrats have requested to do this with Republicans 17 times and each time being completely denied including the request for a conference committee to compromise on a clean straight forward full budget bill the senate passed over 6 months ago..... Now only because they forced the country to shutdown they all of a sudden wish to compromise while they have just damaged the government? That's like waiting to talk to stranger only after you have already beaten them up and braking both their legs then force them listen to your demands of debate... The republicans in office are not even being rational. They themselves would not even remotely conceded to this if the political situation was reversed.... I agree with HeyYou. If the Republican party wishes to govern creating crisis after crisis they are not going to be around for much longer if the government even exist after all this is all over and behind. If the Republican party stays around, no matter how they try to gerrymander their controlled districts they have permanently made themselves a minority party nationally for decades today....

Let me ask you this... You don't think it would hurt you if your employer all of a sudden for no good reason just sent you home for an undisclosed non-paid period of time till they decided to re-open their business? What if all of a sudden your employer required you to work but told you they didn't know when they could pay you again.... Calling for a conference committee in debating over a new budget while the government is shutdown could take weeks. Beside the point of that no one even knows who to negotiate with in the Republican party because if you been paying even the slightest attention to the house Boehner doesn't even have control of his own party in the house. Who do the Democrats negotiate with? The Tea Party? Ted Cruz? no one knows who to even talk with in congress on the republican side anymore... If you think the government shutting down is nothing to worry about just imagine how it's going to be if the government is still shut down when the debt ceiling fight comes up in less than a few weeks.... If what has happened recently is any indication to how things will turn out, the up coming debt ceiling fight could be the fall of the country...

At 12am today The U.S. government shut down leaving over 800,000 government employees furloughed and over a million government employees working without being paid. It's been over 17 years since last time The U.S. government has shutdown over "political Ideology". Courtesy of the Republican Tea Party caucus pressuring legislators in their party (in fear of being primaried by their own caucus ) to hold up the government with a gun while demanding for the Affordable Care Act be delayed and defunded or they would purposely shutdown the government... The Republicans in the house also demanded like a "Christmas list" of things they "wanted" which pretty much sounded exactly like the things Mitt Romney ran on in the last election cycle when he lost to Obama. Now all of a sudden The republican party "wants" to call for a conference committee in debating over a new budget to re-open the government when the senate passed a budget over 6 months ago that the House rejected and refused to call for a conference committee to debate and compromise on. In My strong opinion these people have no right to be in office. They have no strategy and not even a thought out back up plan. The Tea Party has already destroyed the Republican party in America by completely hijacking the leadership and it's now going to be the destruction of America itself. The anger I have for the Tea Party is almost as equivalent as the hate the people have who perpetually try to undermine the legitimacy of Obama himself as president. The government shutting down is totally unnecessary and does not even effect the ACA law or stop it. The only things this has accomplished is stuff like hurting my family, friends, and relatives who are working for the federal government and those who work for non-profit organizations which get government funding help. Also this shutdown is going to cost the American people millions of tax dollars a day till the government re-opens. So for those Tea party advocates who cheered for this shutdown, the officials you cheered for are costing you more tax payer dollars a day because of this situation... Anyways, we all have the Tea Party to thank for screwing the country completely over today just because they couldn't get what they wanted. The real question is "was it worth it?"

Recently in America (a Democratic nation) Ted Cruz went on nation TV stating "“Any senator who votes yes on cloture tomorrow is voting to give Harry Reid the power to fully fund Obamacare. I will vote no on cloture tomorrow. That vote is the fight.” On Tuesday Ted cruz did his "fake" filibuster delaying the very bill he originally support that passed in congress that would indeed "defund" Obamacare. After Cruz's pointless "fake" filibuster for over 21 hours the vote outcome came out 100 yeas against 0 nays which means Cruz Lied to his own supporters and voted for it, but for some reason He is still a hero to his base even when He voted for the very thing he advocated so strongly against.... Ted Cruz made million of dollars for his pointless political stunt when the whole things was just a big lie... Does the majority of the publc really know exactly what happened recently? Does the public realize that this very stunt almost has put the country to the brink of shutting down? On Wednesdays I went to work for a few hours and at my desk I over heard a few people talking about people praising Cruz for what he did (granted these work colleagues are not as politically active or informed as I am) I told my closest colleague exactly my perspective and showed her some recent youtube vids showing Cruz the liar and backstabber he really is... after that she kind of changed her view on the whole Cruz "fake" filibuster fiasco... America's democracy is just not informed enough where people look at only the highlights of politics without fully looking over the full stories... I can only imagine this is how it is in other democratic nations as well.....

@sukeban I apologize for derailing the topic so much It was never my "original" intent to do so.... If one thinks Democracy in itself is declining it's only because they wishes to believe so...

Let me just say I do feel strongly about things and on certain issues but I will not go out of my way to such extremes advocating to support those who wish to do Harm to the country just because things do not go my way... Threatening to shutdown the government, defaulting on debt, and obstructing legislation is no way to govern when the current officials in government are not doing the things you want... Just because your sports team lost you really feel the need to riot over it? The ideologues who whine and complain about democratically losing political control of government are just sore loser and nothing else....

Doesn't matter now Obama has been democratically re-elected for a 2nd term. Threatening to shut down the government, defaulting on the national debt, and obstructing legislation is no solution to fix corruption either... Edit: oh wait let me get out my time machine and recast my 2012 vote for mitt Romney... /sarcasm lol

In a democratically elected government you would then impeach the officials, if not then you shut up and stop whining about not getting your way and wait till the next election cycle...

@Troaches Do you need to be reminded President Obama has been re-elected for a 2nd term. 5 Seats gained by the democratic party in the senate leaving them controlling the majority as well as 11 seats gained in the house of representatives. Whether you Like it or not the Democrats won and have a majority control in governing. If you say you don't want "MORE" compromise, the ideologies who you seem to support who represent the minority on capital hill should stop throwing hissy fits threatening to shut down the government, defaulting on the national debt, and obstructing legislation every time they can't get what they want... "Obamacare" was debated on the floor for over 25 straight days has been passed through the house and the senate, been ratified by the president, and upheld by the supreme court. The republican party has tried to repeal this law over 40 times.... Don't you think it's time for our government to move on and stop wasting its time fighting a battle they can not win while they know they do not have a majority rule in governing power to do so? Edit: I think a new law should be passed where as any publicly elected official purposely threatens to do harm to well-being of the nation economically and/or financially over not getting what they want legislatively should be sentenced to death. Then we might not have to worry about economic uncertainty in the country anymore...

A democratically elected government that never compromises will perpetually remain dysfunctional because not everyone want the same things.... Who is to say what you think is best for the country over someone else's idea what is best for the country?

I understand what you were saying but the last few years congress has done nothing. It was a sarcastic statement about our "current" government.

Passing what legislation? As far as I have seen the last two congresses have basically passed nothing new except renaming a bunch of government post offices... /sarcasm

It's always good to know more about the people in political power. Just like how it's good to know when a politician is comparing people who wish to obey the law as nazi appeasers. lol

So Cruz is calling law abiding citizens nazi appeasers? whatever... Since you seem to be such a fan of Cruz... What exactly has Cruz accomplished as being state Solicitor General, a state Attorney General, a director at the FTC, a Deputy Attorney General in the Justice Department, a law professor, and a US Senator who contributes to several key committees? All I know is as a senator Cruz has accomplished nothing but disrupting government... Edit: do you even realize that there is a bill that has already passed the house to "defund" Obamacare, But Cruz is doing a "fake" filibuster delaying the bill that he has been fighting for all along?

Can you provide a source that quotes him stating that the ACA is more than 1000 pages long? If you haven't been watching then go read the transcript once its made public. I doubt they will add in sub-text about him holding it up above his head... What is the difference between this and "Using the speaking time allotted to him under the rules of the Senate to speak his mind about the legislation and bring awareness to potential problems that he sees in its implementation"? Because he hasn't made any real specifics about the law in question being bad or good he just simply wants the whole thing to be defunded. If he was really intelligent he would spend the time to specifically focus on portions of the law he does not like and wishes to fix instead of just spreading fear and hate which is not going to gain any additional support other than the base supporters he already has to begin with... Also it didn't help him calling those who support the healthcare law as nazi appeasers For starters Ted Cruz isn't doing his job in the senate, only thing he has done is disrupt it... shutting down the government and purposely destroying our economy over a healthcare law is really best thing for our country? It wouldn't bother me at all because I know Wendy Davis is not Jack-ass. Cruz on the other hand looks more like one at 3:30am in the morning in empty room with 2 other senators making a "fake" filibuster over shutting down the government and the economy over healthcare.... Davis has accomplished far more than Cruz has done in his whole recent senate career. I can't actually really think of anything positive Cruz has accomplished recently. At least Davis has made it possible to show the nation that a completely red state has a chance to turn purple soon. Cruz has just committed political suicide is all. Maybe he can still run for president but there would be no chance of him winning the presidency with not very many republicans supporting him on capital hill.

Cruz was clearly referring to the ACA 974 page document misdirecting the public viewers as if the law was too over whelming for the public to even ever begin to read over. The tactic Cruz and Lee are using in my opinion is to keep the public completely uninformed about the law. The entire time I've been watching the "fake" filibuster Cruz has not taught the public anything about what is actually in the ACA. The only thing he has really done so far is invoke fear of "possibilities" in his own opinion how the law is bad. As if He himself knows better than anyone else in Washington what is actually good for the country. Seeming to him the country would be better off destroyed if the ACA isn't defunded. No one on capital seems to really likes Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz trash talks and back stabs people in his own party. Regarding Wendy Davis's filibuster over Ted Cruz's "fake" filibuster is not even comparable... Wendy Davis's filibuster was not intentionally meant to raise her nation profile but it did. Ted Cruz is obviously doing this just for the intent to raise his national profile. Also Wendy Davis was actually filibustering a law not just faking a filibuster. Wendy Davis was not reading doctor seuss on the house floor or reciting song lyrics, she stayed on topic and gave an actual intelligent agreement to the anti-abortion bill. Ted Cruz doesn't know enough about the ACA to keep on topic... Wendy Davis was not able to rest, drink, eat, or lean on anything or anyone and stayed on topic for over 13 hours straight. Wendy Davis had huge public support for her filibuster... Ted Cruz just looks like a jack-ass in an empty room with 2 other senators... Ted Cruz isn't going to accomplish anything but accumulate a bit more twitter followers and slightly raise his national profile... This stunt is only creating more enemies for Cruz in his own party on capital hill... What Cruz is doing is a prime example of Democracy at a moronic level....

@Troaches I apologize for the cheap shot comment but as I am typing this post Ted Cruz is doing a "fake" filibuster to shut down the government and killing the economy over "Obamacare". Ted Cruz probably has never even looked over the Law let alone understands the Affordable Healthcare Act when within his "fake" filibuster tonight he has claimed the law to be over 2000 pages long when the actual Law is only about 1000 pages long (974 pages to be exact)... Odd to be completely off by over a thousand pages when this is a person who is a person who should have the experience and knowledge required to understand the true implications of the "Law" when being a person soooo "strongly" against it.... How our Democratic nation ends up with such a person being elected into office who ends up doing such an idiotic thing as a "fake" filibuster over a topic he seems very ignorant about is beyond me.... Might I add what he's doing has no legislative consequences either. Meaning what he is doing is beyond pointless on the house floor... I would not blame Ted Cruz for being Ted Cruz though, I blame the people who elected him into office... Just imagine if we had a better educated and informed electorate we would probably not end up with people like Ted Cruz in office. A person who feels the need to read "green eggs and ham" as if it was even a relevant thing that applies to "Obamacare" doing a "fake" filibuster... I would hope that well over a majority of nation is offended by this "fake" filibuster especially when comparisons are made to those who support healthcare for the nation as nazi appeasers and supporters of king george the 3rd.... I personally got lost after the same false fear theme about death panels I've heard from the conservative media over the years.... Those who get a kick out of watching elected official make a fool of them selves are welcome to watch C-Span tonight... Get out the popcorn and soda, It's a long and meaningless speeches but has its moments of laughter.... This is just Democracy at a moronic level....

I would say you are more than living proof of your statement...

I was under the impression the purpose of our democratic nation is to elect people into office giving them legislative power to do what is good for the country. If the people of a nation have elected officials that legislate them to buy oranges then the only ones to really blame for this are the people who elected them into office. Anyone having legislative power holds the door and the key to a host "possible" abuses but I am not that paranoid to worry about "what ifs". Again I have always agreed with your view on the root of the problem being jobs in our nation. but until we can elect people into office that will actually do something about it we still need "medication" to treat the "symptoms" of the "bigger problem". Getting rid of healthcare for millions of Americans won't solve the "bigger problem" either.

Does anyone really care if I have or not besides you? I would think not... I can condemn the opposition as ignorant and uninformed if I want especially if through my experience I find it to be true. Note people who claim to be "strongly" against something (note I say "strongly") then finding after a questionnaire they endup knowing really nothing at all about their protest for it. How could you not claim these people to be ignorant, uninformed? I was never originally condemning the "opposition" as ignorant and uninformed "alone". I was talking about everyone I polled from conservatives to liberals. If anything you seem to be on some propaganda to make the readers of this thread seem like I am only condemning those who disagree with "my" personal views... The original example was never meant to be some political partisan statement. It was only an example which you chose to try to dissect for seemingly the only sole purpose to debate about something that has absolutely nothing specific to do with the threads topic. Your argument with my example is "totally" counter-productive and not just a "bit" counter-productive. If you don't agree with my views on how education is important to have a health democracy, then just disagree with me. It won't hurt my feelings, I promise.

@HeyYou Have you ever asked specifically in what negative way the AHA has effect the people who don't like it and why? The AHA is not perfect but it's not really bad either. It's shocking how many people claim to be so strongly against it when it hasn't even taken to full effect yet. It would be wiser to pass judgement on the law once it is actually effecting them then complain about later if it is hurting them personally. Because who knows they might actually like the law especially if they end up needing it... I can understand totally what you are talking about when you talk about jobs though. But until the countries middle class builds back up people still need health care. It would be great If everyone had a good job and was able to get good affordable healthcare from their employers. But do you really believe that is going to happen even if the AHA does ever get repealed anytime soon? I would think not.

@Troaches The poll I did was never meant to sway people into support, The Affordable healthcare act is law so there would be no point to do a poll for the purpose of swaying. The purpose of the poll was to see how much people really knew or understood about the law. Either being those who strongly like or dislike the Affordable health care act. An interesting observation about the affordable health care act is people usually refer to it as just a bill instead of law when claiming to be strongly against it.... A person who has none of the experience or knowledge required to understand the true implications of the "Law" have really no true "strong claim" to be for or against it in my opinion... Maybe if we had a better educated electorate we could have a better healthcare law... And I would be totally for an electorate full of nuclear physicists intellect in a democratic nation...

@Lisnpuppy That is exactly what I was trying to get at. If you randomly go up to a person asking them if they are for or against "Obamacare" then ask a followup question like "What amendments do you like or dislike about the affordable care act?" a majority of the people being questioned won't even have a clue about any of the amendments made, even after they claim to be either strongly against or for it. They will usually either ignore the followup question completely leaving it blank or completely make something up... Propaganda has nothing to do with what I was talking about. It's how little educated the people being question are about the law...