kvnchrist

You pay taxes so cops can protect you and others. You pay taxes so you and others will not die. Its really that simple. Actually the comparison between police and UHC is quite valid, if you take into account that those that can't afford health insurance could easily spread nasty diseases all around without health care. It is quite INvalid. When cops are hired, I get something for my money. Response to calls, a more orderly society, etc. I think it could be done differently,but that is another subject for another thread. What do I get for my money when Aunt Nelly gets that new liver she can't afford on her own? Are you serious? That's what this whole thread has been about- taking money from those who have it and spending it on those who don't. It never fails to boggle my mind when those that have jobs and are setting pretty right now, are incapable of contemplating a day when they aren't. The economy out there should bring that possibility to mind. You could just as easily be the next person on the chopping block and a few months after your health care expires, You might be the one needing a transplant,

I agree, and there is nothing in my post to imply that I wouldn't. Dude, I don't get personal with people unless they get personal with me. Your good in my books. I was just trying to clarify my previous statements for others.

Global view? How many societies are there? Just yours or mine? People are entitled by birth for a chance at survival. A reasonable treatment, and a chance to take them as far as their ambition, persistence and skills will allow. Society is a whole new world from that. The only thing in society that can be depended on is you have a better chance to get something out of it, the more you put in and if you depend on others you have nothing solid to stand on, only their good graces. You loose their favor, you lose your standing.

In a way, we are all paying for it. If she goes in without insurance, she will go into the emergency room and the state will pay for it.

I'd ask you how complicated is changing your cell phone number, once you have 20 or 30 people that have your number. I have different user names on different forums, but I try to keep the same name, since there will be people you know that either look for you posts or dread them. No matter what, everybody has their own unique way of posting.

Was it a mistake for America to give up their space program, or was it time for the private sector to take over. Was it a choice of funding or direction that the country should go in. Does this lower the prestige of the country or does it raise it as far as the rest of the world is concerned?

The mother of my nephews girlfriend, who happens to be a long-time alcoholic ruptured her colon. She was in the hospital until they found out her insurance wouldn't pay for long term care. They sent her home. Is this the the fault of the insurance company, the hospital or the patient herself.

That sounds like the bureaucracy. They loose their funding so they remove instruction on caring for your own funding. Tell me that's a good idea. :laugh:

Are The Arts (performing, liberal, visual, exc) falling to the wayside as the economies of the world shrink? I have heard that the first thing public schools cut are the arts, then the sports. Are these cuts effecting the culture of our society, or are they just frivolous pursuits, and instruction on these need to be done by private schools. Are we in jeopardy of society missing something if they are removed from the public school system.

Have you guys ever thought that ideals might play a heavy role in turning most debates into a flaming hatefest. I've seen the most intelligent person make a damn fool out of themselves, by ranting about the opposition.

It's impossible to put a price on what you've stated, I've personally lost everyone I trusted, it'll be along time til I find others to trust. I'm sorry about that. I have only a few people I trust, By currency I am talking about faith in others, that have proven themselves. I'm sorry if people screwed you over.

Is money the only currency? Does reputation have a currency all it's own. What is the value of a good friend that you can trust with your life.

A lot of people speak of wealth as being something preferable, but preferable to what? Does it have any value by itself or is it gain it's value by what it is used for. There seems to be a growing attitude that the love of money is somehow wrong, Is this correct or is this just a scapegoat for those without ambition? Is it the business of others to condone or condemn it's use in anything that it's owner has in mind?

The government giveth, the government taketh away. Look at the Americans of Japanese descent during WWII. The rights given by another aren't rights, they are benefits of being in the good graces of that group or individual.

It does devalue the reasons they did what they did. It wasn't as high and mighty as some claim. Many of the ideas they espoused were from other writers and what they did was not for all men. I seem to remember the first draft of the document stated the pursuit of property instead of happiness. What they did was great, but it wasn't divine and I don't wave the flag for them. I wave it for the country.

I don't know, but If I drink a cup of coffee or tea, I have two cups of something else coming out on the other end. Tell me how this works.LOL

I think such sensibilities as mine were present back then as well. I've heard that the Southern States refused to sign on to the document, unless certain features were added. The document and the desire to create a union was more important than some of these rights they claim to have held. I love this country. I've fought for this country and will again, but I won't delude myself in the believing that those in power, back then and today, that they had a higher intent other than getting through a present dilema.

That is all very true, but cherry-picking the context to bend it into what it isn't won't work. You have to look at the personal calibre of the men who wrote the Declaration. They believed they were given their posistion in society by Providence. They were demanding of themselves and held each other to higher standard. Their mindset would be completely alien to a modern man. Unfaithful husbands, unfit fathers and cruel masters were shunned in 'proper society'. People considered themselves as part whole. "What ye will that other men should not do to you, that do ye not to other men." They lived by that and believed themselves to be the caretakers of the people beneath them. In 100% agreement. Yet, they never put on the shackles they placed on other men and toiled in the fields without compensation. What they believed in is freedom for themselves and those of like station. Just who decided who was beneath who? They claimed that these inalienable rights were given down by a divine source, but they made sure they were passed on to those more appealing to them. I won't use Irony, I'll use hypocrisy, but in their minds it was providence. To me that is a city in rhode island

What he is trying to explain is that in the time frame that the constitution was created and ratified. The term All Men, did not apply to all men. Black men were considered 3/5th of a human being as far as being represented and were considered less than that by their owners. Women were not even considered in the constitution. This to him is relevant. You have to take into account the intention of the framers of the constitution, not the words written down, sense what was written down was appropriate at the time. Freedoms, rights and entitlements are not the soul property of anyone or any group. If they are, then they aren't rights. They are exemptions. This goes to the core of why I made the original post. Natural rights are not dependent on the good will of those more affluent than you.

As far as my wisdom holds, Naturally held entitlements include respect. As far as I know, no one has the wisdom to determine the intentions of others. Especially in the field of determining if someone is off topic or not. This to me is off topic, irrelevant and quit irritating. I love debates, that is why I post here. The main thing that happens, when you are the OP of a thread and want to save it and those that reply here, is the question of action. If you don't respond, you might loose the person getting judged and If you do respond you might loose the judge, which any way you look at it, you loose, There are less people to respond to your posts. This is why I pulled out of here the first time.

What's your point? What was meant, back there as men excluded more than it included.

What I'm talking about is the chance that those supporting the pet agendas of the party in power will find it easier to get health care services easier than those that don't . I'm thinking more along the lines of forcing people to buy newer cars, because of the impact on exhaust fumes. The inability to get foods prepared in a certain way, because of healthy concerns. The hardening of Abortion rights. The pressuring of those who speak out against certain pet causes.

Yea, It would run just fine. everybody in government would run out and get a real job, because the governments income is mostly in taxes. :biggrin: Hum, maybe he has a point there. lol

It is true the basic right of existence, is existence, but I was thinking more along the lines of different people interacting with each other and the rights that they grant to those they do not know. Think of two aborigine tribes coming together for the first time, without hostility. Mankind has come a long way and still has a long road before them. The issue of rights are well, documented, but they seem to miss that those written down are not only for those that wrote them, or the group they are apart of. The word inalienable, in the constitution is undeniable, but these are concepts that have been taken from other men and other societies. Are these really natural rights, if these rights are the standard of one culture or the other. People. Forget about modern society when you are thinking about natural rights.

I guess this is why I irritate so many with extreame veiws My link