PrideAssassin
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Posts posted by PrideAssassin
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Don't you mena the losser...
YOU'RE WINNER! :biggrin:
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I don't see how Hamas not just breaking the cease fire, but outright asking for a missile up the pooper is opinion.
I don't see how Israel attempting to recognize Palestine is opinion.
I don't see how Israel arresting and evicting extremist Israeli settlers is opinion.
I don't see how Israel allowing medical supplies into Gaza is opinion.
I don't see how Israel confining it's activities to Hamas, and not the Abbas govt. is opinion.
I don't see how Israel warning the civvies in Gaza IN ADVANCE of impending strikes, putting their own troops in danger is opinion.
Those are facts. Do with them what you will.
I don't listen to the radio.
I don't like conservatives or liberals. I'd be hard pressed to even call myself a Libertarian. I have no affiliation. Right wing? Left wing? You need both. Flying with one wing will end in disaster. ;)
I don't like how this discussion continues to be about me personally, rather than the topic at hand.
I find it funny that I end up having to defend myself, rather than my position.
I am dismayed that only lisnpuppy has made a valiant (if neutral) effort to contribute.
So far, I am an uneducated dishonorable troll, with serious personal issues, who is a moron that cannot think for himself and regurgitates opinions spewed by idiots and should be ignored.
Sound about right?
What does any of that have to do with the topic at hand?
Oh, right.
NOTHING.
The topic isn't about me. If you have something to say to me, I posted my contact info. Here it is again: [email protected] Spam away.
If you have a point, please make it. I'm going to ask you one more time, for the LAST time to stick to the topic at hand.
Lest I request the thread be locked and action taken against the next person who strays from our discussion to comment on li'l ol' me again, aye?
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Being hog-tied by the prohibition on religious discussion sucks... lol
I don't have a hatred for either side. I'm ambivalent toward both of them.
Hamas broke the cease fire by firing their piddly little rockets one too many times, and now their chickens have come home to roost. Pretty cut and dried. Israel has done more in recent times to reach out to Palestine than at any other time in history, even going so far as to agree to recognize Palestinian statehood.
Such an awful act would put the Hamas boys out o' business.
The talks were on track until Hamas overthrew Gaza in a desperate attempt to remain relevant and see more of their own people get gibbed, since apparantly that's what gets their rocks off.
If this were a strike against Palestine, Abbas' boys would be getting hit too. It is a strike against Hamas.
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I agree.I would recommend no further responses to the so-called PrideAssassin.At this point he is clearly trolling to stir up trouble and / or has no concern for anybody or their feelings (especially including all the people who have died in this atrocity).
Since I opened this topic with "who else is sick of Israel" he clearly has no reason to even be in this thread.
When such is a reply to a discussion, you know you're talking to a silly person.No. Those conventions are signs of weakness. Applying Law to violence is silly.That's just my personal opinion. I can see the intent behind it. It doesn't make it any less silly, however.
Michlo, sir, I present to you the sad fact that people who have died on both sides of this idiot loop of "my wang's bigger than yours" no longer possess feelings for me to be concerned about.
Since you opened the topic "Israel's actions, Who else has had enough of them?" in the Debate section, I do believe I should be able to debate your belief. If you wanted a hug fest, feel good, let's all get along and agree discussion, it should have been posted elsewhere, no?
I'm a fairly blunt person. Nothing personal. =)
I dont think you know the meaning of honor...Off topic, certainly. A tiny flame. No problem. You base your opinion on what, exactly? Please, be specific. Feel free to contact me @ [email protected] Now, back to the topic at hand.
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Mortar fire is picked up by radar, pinpointed, and eliminated. In some cases by automated systems. Either way, they brought it on themselves.
lrn2tactics
"Hague Convention II:
Article 25
The attack or bombardment of towns, villages, habitations or buildings which are not defended, is prohibited. "
Seeing as how an offensive was being launched from the area, it was "defended".
"Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949:
Art. 17. The Parties to the conflict shall endeavour to conclude local agreements for the removal from besieged or encircled areas, of wounded, sick, infirm, and aged persons, children and maternity cases, and for the passage of ministers of all religions, medical personnel and medical equipment on their way to such areas."
Which they have attempted to see to.
"Art. 55. To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the Occupying Power has the duty of ensuring the food and medical supplies of the population; it should, in particular, bring in the necessary foodstuffs, medical stores and other articles if the resources of the occupied territory are inadequate."
Which is why Israel recently allowed an ambulance, food, fuel, and medical supplies through.
"The conventions are regarded as jus cogens, peremptory norms of international law. If any words could give any bearing to what is honourable, then these articles are, by law norms of honor and basic humanities."
No. Those conventions are signs of weakness. Applying Law to violence is silly.
"The simple math of death toll exceeding 600 dead is by no measure honorable."
Sure it is.
"If such a death toll is a result of an accident, it places IDF battlefield codes of conduct into question."
Look here, once again, in case you missed it the first two or three times. The UN incident was an accident. The rest is quite deliberate.
Hamas is like an irritating runt with a severe learning disability sitting behind you in class flicking your ear. You tell him over and over again to knock it off. You make a threat, because really, beating on such an invalid would make you feel bad. Yet he persists. Then, one day, you say to yourself, "You know what, you little turkey, I'm gonna teach you a lesson." Then you proceed to kick the poo out of him.
Of course, there's that learning disability, so chances are, history's gonna repeat it's self...
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Big Rigs.
You're Winner!
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I think you're missing the link here.
You said that the Israelis are prosecuting with honor.
And so I found that they don't.
It's quite systematic. As michlo has pointed out in the map.
As for the UN installations, Israel officially declared them safe from attacks prior to bombing them.
Maybe in your little bizzaro world, aye?
You found info on extremeist militant settlers, who the Israeli govt. actively tries to reign in. You did not find anything to dispute my assertion that the Israeli govt. is attempting (and succeeding) to prosecute the incursion honorably.
For your other point, as I've said, accidents happen. Combat is chaotic. It was 1 (one, singular) installation. Not installations. (plural)
Since "links" are the only thing you seem to understand:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...ers-503320.html
http://news.theage.com.au/world/israel-des...81104-5h6d.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6934445.stm
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The difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas fires indiscriminately, while Israel actively tries to avoid civillian casualties, going so far as to warn them in advance.
As much as I dislike the Jews, at least they are prosecuting with honor.
But well before the current fighting, the UN says it had given Israeli authorities the GPS coordinates of all its installations in Gaza, including the United Nations Relief and Works Agency school, which was struck by an Israeli missile on Monday.
Prof karen Pfeifer (The Middle East Research and Information Project, USA):
Many of the (Israeli) occupants of the settlements; their founders and people who live there today are very aggressive towards palestinians they go around fully armed, submachine guns, they carry grenades, and they frequently threaten Palestinians.
:In Hebron, settlers initiated more clashes. They say they're tired of coming under attack. But their communities are illegal under International Law...They set fire to Palestinian fields, smashed cars, and vandalized shops, and all this under what is being called officially a Cease-Fire...Settlers have vowed to intensify protests against the cease-fire, they want Ariel Sharon to hit back. Some of them have already carried out their own vigilante attacks on Arab villages.
The settlers are mainly ultra-Orthadox extremists who defy their government and have, on occasion, been forcibly removed by Israel. Nice misdirection, but the actions of extremist settlers do not reflect upon Israeli policy in any way.
As far as the illegitimate UN installation: good riddance, for one. Number two, accidents happen. Oops.
I like how you answer my assertion by pointing to things which have no bearing on anything I was saying though. Rogue elements of Israeli society and an errant missile do not a genocide make.
Meh, like I said, nuke 'em all.
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Indeed. Linspuppy, thanks for that intelligent post before. It would do many people well to learn more about both Islam and Judaism.8 million Russians died in that war. They do not portray themselves as victims.
Really? That can't possibly be because they were part of a gigantic military force, right? As opposed to, you know, German citizens being persecuted and killed by their own government.
Not to say the deaths of the Soviets was not also a horrid thing..and then they faced extermination by their own government also...but I also do not view the Holocaust the same as the Soviet deaths as it was military or civilian deaths at military occupation at the time.
Thank you and I hope that others will take a greater interest in looking beyond the surface of these matters.
3.3 million Soviets died in Nazi camps. Almost 11 million died in action. Tens of millions were killed by Uncle Joe. You know, persecuted and killed by their own government. They aren't crying about it. They have MOVED ON.
The difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas fires indiscriminately, while Israel actively tries to avoid civillian casualties, going so far as to warn them in advance.
As much as I dislike the Jews, at least they are prosecuting with honor.
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"Let 'em fight. Hopefully it spreads. War is good. It purges the weak and stupid."
How come you are still alive? :)
Sheer luck. I have a habit of looking at a jammed gun pointed in my general direction.
The best feeling in the world once you get over that initial "oh poo" moment.
Your assumptions shovel you into that category too, y'know? =)
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Since I think that this debate is as insane as the actual fighting....I mean if you think there groups of people have only been fighting for the last 50 years or so then you are nutty. These folks have been and will be fighting for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. They fight for things that most of us in Western Society cannot understand.
Now my thoughts on the National State of Israel are my own. I will however say that when other countries get in the business of hacking up property willy-nilly (as happened a lot after the Second World War) is basically a bad idea. It has not turned out well in any instance. However I believe there was a great deal of guilt and political savvy in making a Jewish State at the time. I mean come on...(and someone said something about Jewish victimization..And yes I am sure there are some but how many of us can say our parents, grandparents or ourselves survived a 6 million person ethnic cleansing? Just the last in a long line of ant-Semitism.) Bad things had just happened and I am sure many politicians in the West saw a Jewish state as a significant Western presence in the area.....a presence that we in the West have been trying to make since the crusades.
Now if we wish to get technical....maybe the Greeks should get invited to the party since it is well recognized by historians and archaeologist the famous or infamous Philistines were in fact, Mycenae Greeks that moved into the Gaza strip at about the same time that Joshua was tearing down those walls....
These people are not really fighting over a very small strip of land...they are fighting over religious and cultural identity and if you think the Western Powers are just there to mind the oil you are mistaken. Everything we know and think and our entire outlook on life (whatever you may think of these people or the beliefs) has been directly affected by the shaping of the beliefs of the Children of Abraham..both of them. Jewish belief was so different than other religions at the time that it was like the difference between a sling-shot and a Maine Class Tank. The very way most of us look at life is affected by this change. And the Arabs basically saved higher knowledge when the Western World was arse-deep in dead bodies from the bubonic plague. We have much to respect from both these peoples.
But you will not move any of them. None of them will ever just say..oh well it’s been fifty years lets just let by gones be bygones.
Again..most of a Western mind cannot understand these feelings. Why do you think that both Arabs and Israeli fight over every significant historical discovery made? Why they keep each other out of each other’s religious areas of places that they clearly share holy respect for? What would happen if the Muslims suddenly invited the Jews onto the Rock of the Mount and they dug down and found something crazy like the Ark of the Covenant? Or writing and dating proving their providence in the area back to 2000B.C.? Or they found Muhammad's footprints in the rock?
It would destroy the people and a great many Western folk that practice Judea-Christian Religions.
Now the US needs to stop taking sides in this one. They need to assist these people in learning to live together in some semblance of peace. The State of Israel is legitimate in every sense that matters....and it is not going anywhere. The World Oked its conception and the United Nations and powers of the time supported its creation. It is recognized and that is that.
Force of any kind needs to stop. Fighting needs to stop...but both sides and both should be handled by the US (as I am from here I will speak in that term) equally in severity.
The best things we as individuals can do it a great deal of study on this topic..reading the daily news will not explain to you all the things that are going on here....I suggest strongly you start with the Torah and The Qur’an and go forth from there. There are many wonderful books on the subject that address the outlook on life these groups have and also some of the wonderful things both have brought to the world. I would be happy to suggest some for those that are interested.
However to try to debate the existence of the State and the right of whom to the land is something of a fruitless task..Better to debate how we can clear the way to help these people keep an open dialogue and find some way to peace.
And Jaysus....I think you need to do a bit more of religious studies...you make some good points but neither the Judaic or Islamic religion is more war-like that others. However monotheism itself leads to intolerance...after all someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god after all. All are Children of Abraham and Moses. And to think that the Holocaust was a means to an end to create a Jewish State is something I find very disturbing. And it belittles one to think and speak this in any serious manner. I know of no other people that can speak to such devastating prejudice while the entire "civilized" world watched it happen. Please Sir you forget yourself and also your spell checker it appears.
Michlo---well..The Vatican is a country and so I guess other religions do have their own state. However the State of Israel does not only see itself as a religious state...but an ethnic one also. Religion and ethnicity is inseperatable in the Jewish mind. And there are many other countries that still exist and have a state religion which tolerates none other.
I challenge all of you....to find a Jewish person and Muslim person...maybe go to your local Mosque or Synagogue and speak to these people. Ask them questions about their beliefs and issues. I would be willing to bet most of you have never knowingly spoken more than 5 words to these groups...and see what they say.
Meh, I have Jewish and Muslim associates. They are corteous. Not every Jew or Muslim is an extremist. It's called the 2% lunatic fringe for a reason...
And yes, I am sick and tired of the "Jew-as-victim" line of BS. 8 million Russians died in that war. They do not portray themselves as victims.
People die. That's what they do. Get over it already. The "entire civilized world" did not "watch it happen". Everyday Germans knew nothing about it, let alone the rest of the world.
As for getting the U.S. out of the middle east's business, there are too many psycho X-tians who want to rebuild the Jewish Temple in order to bring about the Second Coming, not to mention wealthy American Jews, for that to ever happen. That, and now Iraq, to an extent, is our outpost. America has invested too much in Israel to just walk away. That's just goofy.
Let 'em fight. Hopefully it spreads. War is good. It purges the weak and stupid. It turns a profit. It keeps people like me in business.
Like I said, I don't really care.
It doesn't affect my monkey troop at the moment, and will not for some time to come, if ever.
Turn it to glass and set up a factory for all I care. They are nobody to me.
Death to the Middle East. That will solve the problem quite nicely. :biggrin:
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We were still here before you were though.
And the moral of your story is? If you can't hold it, guess what? It's not "yours" anymore.
"We"? If "We" were born before 1978, then "we" was here before me. If you were born after that, guess what? I was here before you. Am I more native than someone born in 1979? No. I'm just as native as they are. Don't be bitter because they got played, and fell due to their greed and petty rivalries.
It's an illegal occupation and they couldn't hold their own without us to run and hide behind.Illegal? By who's law? The Arabs who weren't even living there?
Illegal? Go arrest them.
But I guess in this game, whoever deals dirtiest wins.That's any game...
For the record, I don't even like Israel. I don't like Israelis. I don't like Jewish dogma or their perpetual claims of victimhood. Ultimately however, I don't care because it doesn't impact my particular monkey troop.
They CAN live there, they ARE living there, and they will CONTINUE to live there. The Arabs can't do anything about it, short of nuking the place.
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Because there really weren't people living there. It was a wasteland. The Israelis came in, built infrastructure and irrigation systems, made it quasi-livable, and all of a sudden Muslims start flooding in crying about "their" land. The only thing that's "yours" is what you can hold on to. Just ask the "native" Americans. (who migrated from Asia, making them... Not native. That's for a different debate...)
Israel suffers a PR problem because they over react to the smallest aggression and pound the poo out of the instigator. Seein' as how the Muslims keep lobbing their piddly little hobby rockets into Israel knowing full well what will come of it, one must infer that they LIKE getting bombed. Hell, they bomb themselves! I think I'm on to something here...
Seriously though, you'd think they'd figure out by now you can set it down and walk away, and live to bomb another day...
Israel's actions
in Debates
Posted
And your response to my reply to your position is?
My college experience was just that, in my opinion. My profs. weren't teaching what they were hired to teach, and used their position to push their personal agendas the majority of the time. It was especially bad in the humanities classes.
I didn't flame anyone. I merely presented to you my experience, and my loathing for do-nothing profs.
So yes, in my opinion they were poofs. Lightweights. Lazy. Duplicitous. Dishonest. Misappropriating funds to push their personal agendas. Criminals, in other words.
Don't call me uneducated and exhort that I return to school when I've been there, done that, and wasn't in the least bit impressed.
If you want to be a Hamas shill, please do it in the off topic forum, where I will respect your request to not post in "your" thread.
You're in debate, so refute my facts.
If you will not do that, I respectfully request you no longer contribute to this thread.
Thank you.