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Guys, sorry for the absence (I was sick for a couple days). I love the work you guys have been doing. Especially Jibstaman's Riddlemaster quests and the Oath by Kohdi. When you guys get a chance please post some of the working documents on the Sourceforge forums. Will be back when time permits!

Hey guys, just another plug for the: Sourceforge Project Page for this Mod

Notice - we've created a Sourceforge project for this mod, everyone who's interested in contributing or play-testing please get a sourceforge account and go post in the welcome to the team topic in the forums. https://sourceforge.net/ https://sourceforge.net/p/reforgeblades/ 1. Draco - glad to have you in whatever capacity you feel like (have you marked down for playtester now) 2. SHT remodeling will definitely start by going down - up there is just open sky at this point and redoing that would significantly change the feel of the level. Love the ideas for new SHT features and especially the magma-Dragon Forge 3. Thalmor assassination list is cool 4. DB or Thieves guild tie ins are going to have to be carefully managed. Current plans are to make the mod independent of any existing vanilla quest, but we can change that as things begin to take shape. 5. Dianacat - I agree. I spent 10 minutes trying to kill Esbern because he was being an ass to me.

IMPORTANT: The ideas on this thread have matured nicely and I think we have the basis for a great mod. I think we may be approaching the time to finalize the Dev team for the mod and get cracking. If the team agrees that is. Everyone who's definitely in for some aspect of the project please PM an email address when I can reach you and remind me of the sort of tasks you'd like to work on. In return I'll shoot you my email address and I'll start putting up some organizational Google Docs that everyone can access and comment on. Reminder of Necessary Jobs 1) Conversation Script Writers - write NPC and Player text that will appear in-game. These scripts will be voiced at some point in development. 2) Level Designers - use the Creation Kit to map out Dungeon and other locations, populate them with NPCs, navmesh them etc. Some program script writing for quest objectives. 3) Resource Creation - 3D modeling and/or Texture Designing for new mod-related items (example arms and armor, special quest items like the Dragonstone) 4) Voice Acting - record and edit voices for Player-NPC interaction in the mod (Anyone who could do a passable Delphine or Esbern voice is especially needed), please send a voice sample, access to a quality microphone or previous home-recording experience is a major plus. 5) Playtesters - folks interested in testing out pre-alpha and alpha versions of the mod content A project like this is going to go a lot faster with a team behind it (since I have a day and sometimes night job!) and my primary job will be co-ordinate the team and make sure everyone is talking to each other, I will also: 1) Design the new Sky Haven Temple (Team input will be solicited before it's finalized, you'll get to walk through, test it out first) 2) Edit Conversation Scripts and Format them for voice talent 3) Act as a central clearhouse for mod files 4) Assemble the pieces of the mod and force them all to get along! 5) Design some dungeons 6) Do some convo script writing 7) Do anything that needs doing that someone else isn't doing Why join the team? Well a couple reasons: 1) You like this mod and want to see it happen 2) You will get access to alpha editions before everyone on the Nexus to playtest 3) You'll be giving something back to the Mod community that we all love 4) You get to be part of something awesome So join today! Uncle Sam wants you. And by Uncle Sam I mean me. No I won't wear the hat.

Wow, I need to spend some more time in Blackreach apparently. Had no idea about using the Shout on the Sun-sphere. Anyone else who is interested in a foreign language version of this mod and can translate please let me know. Right now we have a volunteer to do German translations which will likely be added as subtitles with the currently planned English voice-acting. Draco - I like the idea of incorporating named dragons, if they aren't part of an existing quest line then they are fair game for this mod.

Answerme - the total amount of text will probably be 10-20 pages of double spaced dialog for the Stage Two version of the mod (all the recruit-able NPCs for Sky Haven Temple) but that's just a guess. If we're going to do foreign language versions of the mod they will most likely keep the english audio from our voice actors but have German subtitles, would that work for you?

Also, as far as Paarthurnax being dead and still being able to do future Dragon Ally quests - I think this is a legit concern because not everyone wants to start a new playthrough to check this mod out. It should be fairly easy to script the ability to do this into an NPC interaction. The script would check the stage/status of the Paarthurnax quest, then you would have the chance to either continue killing dragons, or to try and work with them. I think what Jibstaman said is right, we definitely want to add a "convince the Blades to work with Paarthurnax" option, but we don't plan on making any future Dragon ally quests contingent on having Paarthurnax alive (so you could kill them and then decide to bring the other dragons into your service as allies/vassals). If you haven't killed Paarthurnax yet, killing him will start you down the Dragon Kill quests but a simple conversation option will remain available allowing you to switch over to Dragon Allies. Something like "I know Paarthurnax had to die for his crimes, but Odahving has proven to be a valuable servant. I could defeat other dragons and make them serve us in our fight against the Thalmor." Alternatively, if you decided not to kil Paarthurnax you should still be allowed to take Dragon Kill instead of Dragon Ally quests. Right now the Dragon Kill quests will probably be a lot like the ones that Esbern will give you if you kill Paarthurnax.

Would you be willing to translate it into German?

I like the idea of hidden or "free-floating" quests that you stumble upon, perhaps by doing something like reading a book in the new library of SHT. The current conception I have of these sorts of missions would be something like this: 1) Read a book about ancient blades repository 2) Go check out the repository 3) Find a Blades relic 4) Bring it back to Delphine and it goes into the Armory/Museum (like special objects from Thieves Guild Quests) 5) Secondary rewards like cash, equipment, whatever found at the quest site (dungeon) I think that if they are hidden quests then the results should be a bonus, and would like to keep the recruit-able NPCs out of them. This I think that optional add-on quests to NPC recruits are bad, but if you're going to be able to upgrade the smith's work, for example, then you should probably get the quest start from the blacksmith, or from some book lying around the forge (so not a hidden quest).

Tsaesci are cool but most likely outside the scope of this mod - if someone manages to prototype a Tsaesci race we could put a statue of it in SHT, that would be cool. For one, Tsaesci exterminated dragons in Akivir so the most likely wouldn't get on with them in Skyrim. AoC- Thanks for the voice acting offer. What sort of voices can you do? Draco - I think the consensus is that you'll be able to kill paarthurnax and do dragon kill missions or let him live and do dragon ally missions. Of course nothing is fixed in stone. Smith-stuff: I think the best way to go about it would be to pick one story line for each NPC so that we can flesh it out properly. I'd rather have only one choice for the smith and have him feel like a real character than have three different one-dimensional smith NPCs. As the mod progresses we can always add features in the future and if there comes a point when I can't give the mod proper attention I'll hand it off to the person who can, who can then add his/her own spin.

Dropped a line to the mod creator and asked if he'd like to join up. Also, that's totally my thoughts on the Smith and forge too. Although we might need to strip out the side-quest if things are getting too complicated. Drytor's first smith recruitment dialog is an excellent first draft and is my favorite of the three currently on his google doc. What Jibstaman said on this one. Also - as far as the Blades Ghost goes, can we bring back Baurus? That would be cool.

For those who don't want updates to their steam games, you can disable automatic update download. Also, just remember that anything you create with the Creation Set belongs to Bethesda. It's in the EULA. So if they want to start selling your mod they can. I don't think they will because it would damage the mod community that is a great incubator for ideas for the next game, but keep that in mind.

I really like the idea of rescuing captives of the Thalmor - there was that one guy that we liberated in the main questline but whatever happened to him? One thing I really enjoyed was liberating captives from the super mutants in FO3, and it could be similar for this mod.

Persistent Summons - I'd feel better about something like this if there was only one and it was attached to the recruited wizard, otherwise I'm confused about how they got there, what are they doing, etc. Akiviri Armor and Weapons - definitely available for purchase, but should that be default or should you have to enable purchase/crafting of them somehow? Also, how protective should the armor be compared to Dragon Plate, Daedric, Ebony armors? Current plans include making the heavy armor set from vanilla craftable as well as a set of Blades mage robes and Blades Light Armor along with tanto (knife), katana (vanilla blades one hand sword), and odachi (two hand katana style sword). Drytor - can't wait to see those conversation scripts. When you're ready for input why not put them on Google Docs so we can comment on them. Blades Kennel - awesome idea, but we only can do this if we make the trainer look like Cesar Millan. Seriously. Blades Dog Whisperer.

Drytor - No, I think you're being realistic. The thing that is most likely to kill this mod in the cradle is taking on too much. I think right now we have a good frame for the recruitment process, a good sampling of what sort of NPCs can be recruited and how they will benefit the Blades. The Dragon Kill/Ally quests are definitely slated to be part of stage three of this mod. To lay out the development stages as I currently see them: Stage 1: Make fully upgraded Sky Haven Temple for use as a player-base. Simple SHT-based puzzle-quest to open the Armory. Stage 2: NPC recruitment missions with SHT upgrades linked to completing each recruitment missions. Stage 3: Dragon Kill/Ally Questline with the Thalmor Showdown Stage 4: Order of Talos Optional Sidequests, Other Bonus Features The natural ebb and flow of mod development seems to be that people drop in and out fairly regularly with leadership being handed off. My hope is that everyone will sign on for a minimum of one Stage and they make the call on whether or they want to continue. Right now I envision doing Stage one by myself while anyone else who is interested can be working on elements of Stage 2. Depending on team member's abilities, preferences we might also be working on Stage 3 as we are finalizing stage two, and so on. Everyone has a life of some sort, so if people need to drop out no explanation is needed. Everyone who currently wants to be on the team please let me know which of these jobs strikes your fancy: 1) Conversation scripting 2) Voice Acting 3) Level Design 4) NPC design (faces, gear, abilities) 5) 3D modeling for new items 6) Textures for new items 7) Adventure Scripting 8) Playtesters Personally, I'm going to call dibbs on designing the new SHT layout (don't worry it'll get sent around for people to try out and comment on). I've got zero experience with 3D modeling and textures so I'd love to get someone who knows what they are doing with that. The other stuff I feel we can learn as we go although having a script guru around would be sweet. I also found someone who offered to make us a Trailer movie when the full mod is ready to go. EDIT - Jibstaman, I do like the idea of a Blades/Haven Forge with smith-able Akiviri weapons and armor. If we wanted to we could separate out getting the forge from making the Akiviri stuff available. For example, get forge, then go on a quest in the library hunting down the schematics. Or perhaps go find some special tools needed for the forge (Akiviri forge tools?).

I understand the motives behind making crafting stations at SHT purchase-able, and I definitely see where people are coming from on that. Personally, I would prefer to make different facilities at SHT unlock when you recruit the appropriate NPC (e.g. recruit the wizard and you get the enchanting table). I think this is the way to go because it allows us to do something cool that the Project Lead on the Assassin's Creed games subscribes to: when the player accomplishes something you don't just give the a story bonus but you give them a gameplay bonus as well. In AC they do it by giving you a new weapon or new maneuver. In this mod I'd like to do it by making visible, usable improvements to SHT. And yes, every time I use that acronym my brain pronounces it...unfortunately. You can already buy player houses and upgrade them, I don't think we even need to make money/funding a major issue for the Blades in this mod. Yes it would add realism but I also feel it could harm the enjoyment. I don't want to penalize players for being poor; and if you're going to solve that by having Blades quests generate the income you need to get the stuff, then why not just cut out the middleman? Financing can be taken care of off-screen and alluded to in conversation. We could link "basic" unlocks like forge, enchanting table, etc. to recruitment missions but have other upgrades (traps for the entrance, expanded library collection with readable books, banners to decorate SHT) as purchasable. So functional improvements would be free with NPC while vanity/luxury improvements would cost player money. That's just my two cents on the topic. Also - SHT Caves (approach to main entrance). Definite potential for renovation. About Questlines: I think it's important to decide some structural things about the questline. We have several ideas floating around now 1)Dragon Kill vs. ally 2) Bring back the Order of Talos 3)Busting the Thalmor. As much as I like choice, we need to set achievable goals. I think the way that Jibstaman has outlined it makes sense: Player decides dragon kill vs. ally (Paarthurnax as test case) --> questline that transitions from dragon kill/recruitment to anti-Thalmor missions --> big showdown vs the Thalmor Order of Talos quests can be sprinkled in as optional side-quests like the Thieves Guild has. So let's junk the three-pronged quest-tree, that's too much. The new questline will be largely similar between the Dragon-Kill or Ally but the big finish will be different with Dragon Allies (perhaps if you go the dragon-kill route you take more casualties of your hard-hired NPCs from recruitment missions). There is also the potential for dragon allies to betray the player (not my favorite option) or the Other Dragons could come interfer with their assisting the dragonborn at the big showdown with the Thalmor. In any case, it shouldn't be a simple case of 1) Get Dragon 2)???? 3) Profit! (By Profit I mean kick arse with Dragon allies). There should be complicators a la Firefly.

Are people more interested in something free-form and customizable like Real Time Settler or something more like an expanded player house experience where you pay for the upgrades you want and they appear?

First - props to Jibstaman for his recent kick-arse work. Second - the Creation Kit is out in January according to BethSoft I agree that a build-your-own shout station is beyond the scope of this mod. Also, we definitely want to stay away from any NPC's that are involved in existing content - purely for compatibility purposes. That doesn't preclude us from cloning existing characters, making subtle alterations, and putting them somewhere else in the world to use. I was thinking about unique items and quests in this mod and it occurred to me that a good way to unlock something like the Armory/Museum might be to go on a quest to retrieve another Dragonstone like the one from the main questline, which might be the key to opening the Armory. Or perhaps we could do something like treasure map around the new SHT culminating in pressing a hidden button on Alduin's Wall to open up the Armory. I'm ripping this off shamelessly from some of the Dragon Age Mage Tower quests like The Watchguard of the Reaching or Summoning Studies. Also, I've been thinking about the Karthspire as a human town stuff (we had talked about it evolving along with the Blades order reforming). I spent the weekend doing some 'research' playing Real Time Settler for Fallout New Vegas and have concluded that something like that is just not in the cards. Someone will port RTS to Skyrim in a heavily modified form (I hope) and that will be that. A separate Karthspire mod might be fun but will have to be done either after this mod or by someone else. If anyone is interested in doing the Karthspire mod and wants to work with Reforging the Blades to ensure compatibility, let me know.

Jibstaman - Updated first post with warning and brief explanation. Great summary document on google docs. I think the idea to bring Hannibal Traven back from the dead to serve the Blades is an interesting one. It might be difficult to pull off without feeling a little fan-fic, but I think we could do it.

As promised - flowchart As mentioned I'd like to include Karthspire evolving as a town but that's pretty much a mod of it's own! This mod is ballooning really quickly....

Love all these ideas guys - this weekend I'll go through and put together a condensed set of suggestions along with a flow-chart showing my current conception for how the missions will flow and the rewards you'll get. Specifically on the point of turning Karthspire into a town I really like this idea - I think there might be a way to included it without compromising the secrecy of the Blades. What I was thinking is that perhaps once you neutralize most of the Thalmor's influence and power in the area then settlers could come and set up shop. Alternately, once you first access SHT and you clear out Karthspire of all the dirty forsworn, a settler or two could show up and set up tents and whatnot. As you complete quests for the Blades of any sort the town could evolve naturally. Not as a place founded or controlled by the Blades but something organic that grows up in the void left from the death of the Forsworn. Of course, if people are heading straight to SHT they might miss the town completely - but I'm loath to force fast travel to SHT to spawn in Karthspire. Anyhow, I love the idea and I'm going to put it in if I can, but it might be a later addition. Right now I've conceptualized the mod to get released in stages: 1) Final version of SHT upgraded with facilities 2) Recruitment quests and SHT upgrades tied to recruitment 3) Thalmor, Dragon Kill, and Order of Talos Quests 4) Dragon Ally quests/support 5) Karthspire evolving village

Drytor- Wow, lots of cool ideas. Thanks for contributing. The overarching theme of your suggestion seems to be that you want to see the mod's new content grow out of the existing Blades content organically without any replacement of existing content. I think you're not the only one who would oppose deposing Delphine - perhaps the mod should have some flexibility in the regard. I think you're approach to recruitment sounds like one with a good flow that fits into an story arc of a continually improving SHT. The way you described it I was reminded of the mod Real Time Settler from New Vegas, I think I'll play through that and see if I can't pick up any ideas. The idea about bad intel is a great one - all my favorite shows like Firefly have plans going to hell almost every time so it'd be a nice element for this mod's questline. Promotion or otherwise managing individual recruits within the Blades also sounds like a cool idea - I've got no idea how to implement it but hopefully that will change! I think the idea of turning Karthspire into a town is really cool. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like it jive's with the fluff/lore. What I mean is that the Blades are the equivalent of a non-governmental actor like Cebereus in ME, except good. The LAST thing they want is to attract attention by encouraging people to settle near their stronghold. Doing so is an invitation to attack by the Thalmor or by a local Jarl who feels threatened by their presence. Best to keep a low-profile I think. In Oblivion they were very public in their role of defending the emperor but they also operated as a secrete organization with agents throughout tamriel - that's more what we're going for. I definitely agree about keeping the Blades out of the civil war - it doesn't seem to work on a variety of levels so I'd rather not go there. Frankly the civil war quests left a bad taste in my mouth - I didn't want to see the Empire triumph given they were Thalmor lackeys and I didn't think Ulfric should lead skyrim. I ended up supporting Ulfric just because I wanted the Empire and the Thalmor out of Skyrim but I felt ashamed when he killed Tulius in cold blood.

Where it stands currently: This is an effort to include the ideas into a signal outline with an indication of when each segment will be implemented. Right now I'd doing my best to "KISS" - or keep it simple stupid because, while there are a lot of great ideas bouncing around this thread some of them are so large is scope as to be effectively out of my reach until I gain skill as a modder (stuff in italics is stuff I'd like but will probably be more of a bonus content after the first draft of the mod is done). 1. A New Hope The Dragonborn is the one the Blades have been waiting for and they will serve him, one way or the other. After the main questline wraps the player will be able to contend for the Grandmaster-ship of the Blades after having proved himself in rebuilding the organization and completing important objectives for them. The gameplay will intiatially focus on recruting new members for the blades by new quests as well as expanding the functionality of Sky Haven Temple by unlocking improvements. 2. Attituide Adjustment Convince or force Delphine and Esbern to accept Dragons as allies instead of exterminating them (leads to Dragon ally quests) Go with the flow and exterminate all dragons (leads to dragon kill quests) Tell them to do their dirty work themselves (Delphine eventually gets herself killed along with some recruits) 3. Sky Haven Temple Expanded Default Improvements Player Quarters with Bed and Storage Unlockable Improvements Blacksmithing improvements (on the terrace) unlock with recruitment of Smith Alchemy Station unlocks with recruitment of the Thief Enchanting Station unlocks with recruitment of the Mage Kitchen unlocks with recruitment of the Quartermaster Armory/Museum unlocks after quest to retrieve a special key to open it Expanded Training area unlocks with recruitment of the Veteran Library, unlocks when Lorekeeper is recruited Dragon housing/cave perhaps as part of recruit the dragons quests 4. Recruitment Quests Special mission to recruit each new Blades Member The Veteran - to train recruits, unlocks training area The Quartermaster - for logistical support, unlocks kitchen, acts as a general shopkeeper The Smith - for weapons, unlocks smithing stations, acts as a weapons/armor shopkeeper The Mage - for the magic, unlocks enchanters station, sells mage goods and spells The Thief/Assassin - unlocks alchemy, sells arrows and poisons The Lorekeeper - an apprentice for Esbern, unlocks library The Sharpshooter - trains in archery, sells arrows, unlocks archery range The Spy - trains in stealth, finds Thalmor bases, etc. 5. Questline No hard choice between three different goals but rather, you can complete quests towards each branch as you see fit. After completing one line entirely a celebration honors your achievement. Defenders of the Faith - missions to clear a monastery of Talos, rescue believers from the Thalmor, retrieve Talos artifacts Down with the Thalmor - take the fight to them, bust up their bases and cut their supply lines, defend SHT from the Thalmor Dragon Hunter - dragon kill or dragon ally quests I think certain quests will trigger after a certain number of recruitment actions, similar to ME2.

Definitely do-able but will probably require a large amount of re-texturing of existing models. Sounds like a big project for something that seems relatively simple.

Kairo + NotCras - glad you're enjoying the thread. I'm certainly enjoying bouncing these ideas around and the ideas behind the mod have been dramatically improved by your suggestions and feedback. Dragon allies is a cool idea but I'm still pretty foggy on how it would work - I'm imagining several encounters similar to the one with Ohdaving with a similar result - can summon more dragons to fight for you, or several dragons converge on a thalmor stronghold in an epic storm-the-castle moment. Partly I'm concerned for recruiting dragon allies feeling like "more of the same" after the main quest but I'm also concerned about implementation. I think Dragons as allies may be involved in an update to the mod once I get my bearings with the CS by flushing out the rest of the questline. So it's definately still something I like but I'm not as clear on the way forward. A lot of my ideas for this are fueled by my love of Bioware games and the desire to bring some more bioware style companion missions/interaction to Skyrim so that's been my short-term focus. Notcras - I think this is a really cool idea, it could easily be forked off the main new questline by failing to persuade Delphine to leave the dragons alone or could be integrated into the main storyline. When I get a chance I'll sketch out a new outline for what I'm thinking with these suggestions incorporated.