Nelson Mandela ... a great legacy being tainted.

[Platton]

 

Why? Communism itself does not advocate any of the bad things that Communist regimes have done. It is an economic theory, nothing more. ... It is a flawed premise based on irrational fear instead of logic.

Read the manifesto, it calls for dispossession of those who don't agree or try to flee and terror. That every communist country goes down the toilet isn't an accident. And the ANC did just that.

 

 

He gave them free weapons and intelligence aid blawblawblaw

Here we go again. Did i say Reagan was good or did the right thing doing business with these people? No, the point is Mandela and what he did. Not Reagan, not Ghandi, not King.

I'am already tired of this, whats the point debating with you. Your not interessted in the topic but making your worldview up against another. Cerrypicking.Thats boring highschool debating class. What gives, i'am going to bed now.

[TRoaches]

Read the manifesto, it calls for dispossession of those who don't agree or try to flee and terror.

Do you really think this is comparable to Naziism? "Dispossession" occurs in every single government in the world. If you "disagree" with (violate) many of our laws your property will dispossessed. The IRS and DEA both do it every day to people who "disagree" with the laws that they enforce.

 

 

That every communist country goes down the toilet isn't an accident. And the ANC did just that.

 

Communism is a terribly flawed system, but association with communism does not put one in the same category as a mass murderer. Earlier in the thread you compared Mandela to Lenin, Hitler, and Pol Pot.

 

 

Did i say Reagan was good or did the right thing doing business with these people?

 

No, but you did say "I don't see Reagan arm in arm with these people doing political salutes" implying that a photo-op and political salute were somehow worse than directly assisting mass murderers.

 

 

i'am going to bed now

 

Goodnight!

[Nintii]

I have not been here for a few days so it took me by surprise at all the comments and I'll try to work through some of them that grab my attention ... for a start to :

 

@ Lisn. ... Yes, it is quite sad that people have tried to ruin his legacy - to their shame - what is worse is when it's family.

 

@ Kendo2 ... P W Botha the President of the time was a hardline racist who would have perpetuated his fierce resistance of anything Communist, Marxist or otherwise with violent force no matter the cost.

My father and uncles etc., all received their "call up" papers during their last year in high school ... and were all drafted into the army, navy and air force when they left school.

 

Many went to the "Border" (South West Africa - now Namibia and Angola) and fought in the Bush War, and killed the "enemy", Russians, East Germans, Angolans, SWAPO, ANC etc.

No African nation south of the equator was safe from P W Botha, and together with Israel he built a couple of nukes and according to my dad he would have used them if necessary.

He also ruled the National Party with an iron fist, however, he had a minister in his cabinet called F W De Klerk who was well liked by the public (whites) and on a day when PW (nicknamed the "Great Crocodile", I kid you not), suffered a stroke FW stepped in and wrested control and deposed PW.

 

It is he who opened real dialogue with the ANC and it is both he and Nelson Mandela who paved the road to peace in this country.

THAT, is why I consider Nelson Mandela to be a great man, because he "chose" the path of peace instead of civil war to build a new nation.

There is hardly a white person in this country (though the Right wing does still exist though not publicly) who does not have a great affection for Nelson Mandela, he was a tremendous nation builder and the efforts he made at reconciliation between the races is absolutely stellar.

 

And yes, Mandela did join the SACP (South African Communist Party), but that is beside the point, as he opted for something other than communism in practice.

 

@ platton ... I understand where you're coming from but you're confusing the current idiot government with Nelson Mandela.

 

@ rizon72 ... the country is now worse.

 

@ TRoaches ... Correct on many points, especially that Apartheid was capitalist ... that is just twisted.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Nintii

[Dazaster]

Nintii is correct in saying Mandela is great for one reason and one reason only: He chose peace, not war. And no, he didn't end apartheid. How could he? He was in jail. FW de Klerk and the white voters of South Africa(myself included) effectively ended apartheid in 1990 when a referendum was held with a simple YES or NO vote with the Question : Should black South Africans be given the vote? 76% of WHITE South African voters said YES!

 

I remember the day Mandela was released. We watched it nervously on television in Bryanston(a fairly wealthy white suburb near Johannesburg). Rumours of an impending black on white bloodbath were rife. Many ex-pats had their bags packed and their passports ready. There was talk of an airlift(British) to get people out. The AWB were gearing up and Terreblanche was trying to figure out which end of a horse was which. Then Mandela released a statement calling for peace and reconcilliation. There was no bloodbath. Soon talks were underway to set about the first free elections the country had ever had.

 

Of course, South Africa these days isn't a bed of roses. Violent crime is almost out of control in a lot of places. Unemployment is very high. Young ANC members want farm repatriation(stealing farms to give land to their supporters who can't farm, thus leading the way to starvation and a new Zimbabwe)

 

But is there hope for South Africa? Of course there is. It's in their accents.

 

WTF you mean, it's in their accents, I hear you say.

 

Listen to any documentary or film from Africa before the end of Apartheid. Black people have had a, um, 'black' accent for as long as they've spoken English, about 250 years.

Now hunt the 'net and find a piece from a young black South African. Many of them no longer have that accent. Instead they now speak like white South Africans do.

 

Intergration, and, Education, are doing their jobs. They just need a little time.

[Kendo 2]

I remember when Mandela was released... I also remember when he had his own wife (you know, the MOTHER of his children?) arrested à la Stalin/ à la neo-progressive Maoist/Fascist/Marxist/Socialist/etc...Un-huh...Tell me it ain't so.

 

Here's the deal.. I can paint anyone as the greatest civil rights hero in human history or the worst villain. Adolf Hitler was a 'champion' of human rights in the same vein as Abraham Lincoln. YEAH, I said it...Now tell me it’s not true:

 

They both single-handedly fueled wars that could tear the world apart (Hitler scoffs at the Treaty of Versailles and Lincoln ridicules the Kansas–Nebraska Act), even though those matters were resolved.

 

Suspension of habeas corpus, requisition and resupply (we're stealing this and you'll get paid for it LATER...har-har), slaughtering unarmed civilians, endorsing slavery, gulags and concentration camps etc. Uhm, that’s LINCOLN, btw.

 

Read a history book and tell me it ain’t true. Lincoln’s own words condemn him, yet Hitler is the biggest *sshole ever and Lincoln gets his face on U.S. currency. Go figure...

 

Just because someone says Mandela is a folk hero doesn’t necessarily make it so. He’s a Leftist/Genocidal/Douche and the FACT that the likes of ‘the Clintons’ or Reichsführer Obama want to kowtow at his casket like he’s Lenin speaks volumes about his neo-left take on things.

 

Seriously, stop trying to rewrite history and just LOOK at the facts. Every time the Left wants to white-wash or rewrite something it makes us all dumber...Just pointing out the obvious here...

 

Winnie Mandela and her followers participated in ‘necklacing’. That’s placing a tire full of gasoline around someone’s neck and setting it on fire...while they are still alive.

 

Nelson Mandela condoned the placement of a bomb that would explode and kill white African women, children and infants. Google the ‘Church Street Massacre’ for more info.

 

This is the same Mandela who told South African black youths to 'burn down their schools' and thus created a generation of uneducated, unemployable and lawless thugs.

 

Mandela embedded himself with the Marxist ANC even though he was aware of the Brezhnev Doctrine. A key part of this Soviet era ‘Brezhnev Doctrine’ was to “seize the strategic mineral treasure chest of Southern Africa and deny these materials to the Western military industrial complex.” Well, that just just sounds all warm and fuzzy to me. No harm THERE...sheesh.

 

Note that Mandela’s ANC regularly violated people’s human rights by torturing and mutilating black African cadres who would not side with them and participate in their terrorist activities. People were tortured for disagreeing with Marxist orthodoxy, questioning ANC policy, refusing to carry out bombings of civilians, etc. So much for ‘political reeducation’ in a gulag....

 

This just goes on and on and ON...

[antonkr]

I am just waiting on Mugabe to go at this point.