tyjet3 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 iam not trying to make your comment sound childish but do you mean something like gaia from final fantasy the spirits with in ? That is probably one religion i could believe... if i wanted to. Gaia is an awesome idea... we should repect nature a lot more, that's why i think we should worship it ;) ... j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 P.S.: To Breton Thief OrianaThe whole God/Jesus thing is a triviality made to separate different denominations and further bolster theopolitical strife. If this is how you see it, why bother posting into a debate of people who wish to talk seriously about it? :veryangry: Maybe you should ask yourself: Why is the difference that important? Is it because youre right about the "Issue" or because you think the other guy is wrong? P.S.: Fix your quote tags, ya rube! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 If you think the God/Jesus thing is triviality why do you feel the need to post in this debate? For others this might be an important issue, and we are interested in getting to know the point of few of other people. And we feel the answer to the questions we discuss is important - mind you not necessarily the outcome of this particular debate, but the issue itself, the question and the answers to it. Unfortunately a comment like yours is not helpfull, especially if it is as brief as yours was, basically just stating all our concern and asking is just bullshit. Now, if you were to explain your point of few, that would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 The denominations all have a differrent take on the Jesus/God relationship. Some think he is god, some think hes the son of god, some think hes the prophit of god, some think hes the messiah, some think hes a man in a chicken suit. None of these lablings help to clarify any of his teachings, they only further sepparate the denominations, which is impeading the course of progress. You care so much about what the DIFFERENCES between your denominations are and not the SIMMILARITIES. Which, btw, is wrong. So, because you care more about a triviality, whatever jesus was in relationship to god, youre wasting debate issue from some other, more important topic. And if you cant see that, then youre probably just another of the holy-rollers. With the breif post I made, i was trying to signify a hipocrisy within you people, all of you people, who are so concearned with this that you dont see the more important issues, and evidently YOU dont see ANY of the important issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Well, what are the more important issues and topics you mention? If we miss them, please enlighten us! ;) As to your criticism: It's rather obvious that we will try to clarify the points we are of different opinion and not those on which we already agree. But by debating we automaticly assume that there is a common basis to which we all refer and which allows us to understand each other. None of these lablings help to clarify any of his teachings, God is God, and we know little about Him and it's hard to say anything specific about Him. But Jesus of Nazareth was a real man, no one denies (is that spelled correctly?!) that. Jesus was real flesh and blood and He lived as a real person, so we can make statements about Him. And He taught us in a way we could understand, using our words and talking in examples we could relate to. His life and His teachings are the one most important source of revelation for Christian faith. But to decide if He is worth listening to and if there's a point in remembering the stories about His life, we must decide if He really was special or not. If He really was the son of God (taking this litteraly or metaphorically) then we may trust in His words, then there is a point in following His teachings and His example. If He was a man in a chicken suit, we might as well follow the teachings of Mickey Mouse. So the relation between Jesus and God is not a triviality, but the core of the problem, it's the big question, the center of the issue, the ... well, you get the idea. :!: But you're right in saying we have to look a his teachings and clarify the stories, because this is the only way to find out the answer to the big question. We find out the value of the stories by looking at the stories themselves. If we want to do that, we may have to give these stories the benefit of the doubt for a while, and give them the chance to proofe themselves. Unfortunately some people aren't prepared to do that. Anyways, thanks for explaining your initial post! I hope you find the answer somewhat understandable even if you don't agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Yeah, god is god. But what about what we dont know? If god happens to be within man, then jesus is the son of man. And if jesus is god as well by default because he is of man. But, technically, everyone is the son of man, because they come from man. and if god ISNT within man, but jesus is the son of god AND the son of man, then... something, I havent thought that one through: its too deep. See, most fundamentalists would tie me up and kill me for even MENTIONING that. Thats what I meant. Theopolitical strife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_it_ Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 my new question who forged the other planets ? because god "the creator" only made earth and if jesus wanted to save us why did he complained about hanging on the cross to save all of us and almost didnt go if god didnt told him to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Answering to Breton Thief Oriana:Please note that I made no attempt to tie you up and kill you. ;) To solve the problem you mentioned, I guess we'll have to find out what they mean if they call someone 'son of God'. Did you realize that it was quite common to be a son of some God at that time? Most Egyptian pharaos were Gods and most kings of Persia were offspring of some kind of God, Alexander the Great was related to some God and Julius Caesar kept insisting that some ancestor of his had had a date with some Roman goddess. And for virgin births it was no different. Now, if these people, who belonged to some polytheistic religion, styled themselves to be half-gods or something, that's not really worth listening to. But if Jews (Jesus himself, all the deciples and most apostels were Jews, which is often forgotten), who were fanatic Monotheists, call someone son of God that's special. But it can still mean, as in all the examples above: watch out, this is a special person, no ordinary man. Answering to _it_:Who says that God made only earth? The writers of Genesis 1+2 (the stories about creation) just did not know about other planets like ours. But it's clear that they wanted to say that God created everything. Now Jesus dying on the cross is a difficult topic. But why is was afraid is easy to tell: He was a man and wouldn't you have been afraid as well? To me it seems more impressive that His faith should be stronger than his fear, rather than Him being so mad that He's not afraid at all.And as to the saving part: God not letting Him down, not leaving Him dead, but resurrecting Him and thereby telling the brutes and savages: "You can do a lot, but not kill this man, this I will not allow." is the part that gives me hope, a lot more hope than His being killed. For if He just died, His teachings would have become meaningless as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyjet3 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 who forged the other planets ? because god "the creator" only made earthWho says that God made only earth?How about the bible said it... It clear says "God created heaven and the earth" It never mentions the universe or galaxy or space time continum or the Magical World of Happyland or Canada or Planet X ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_it_ Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 who forged the other planets ? because god "the creator" only made earthWho says that God made only earth?How about the bible said it... It clear says "God created heaven and the earth" It never mentions the universe or galaxy or space time continum or the Magical World of Happyland or Canada or Planet X ect... thats my point thanks for clearing it out for me i also noticed the cherubs (i probably miss spelled that 1) in wich 3 creatures sat and gave the people the power of knowledge and of construction etc... but who are those creatures and waht is that egg shaped cherub ? i have read the dutch version of the bible several times now and i could not find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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