Combat Mod Comparison 2.0

[cfguy]

Hey all,

 

I've been looking for a combat mod and am having some issues. I've read some awesome threads about the comparisons between them, but they all seem to list the different strengths and not what makes the mods different, or what mechanical similarities they share.

 

I'm not sure if anyone is interested in doing this, but I'd love to see a comparison of Duke Patrick's, Duel, Deadly Combat, SkyRe, and ACE or a combination of the bunch.

 

I'm basically looking for a mod that is skill-based and realistic. Not overly so to the point of getting over-complicated and wrecking game immersion with crashes and significant lags, but something that simulates combat in a mostly realistic way, including:

-one hit kills if applicable (i.e. if you get a power attack with a hammer on someone not blocking, they die or almost die regardless of armor class, etc. Armor should have a significant impact, but not so that fights last through 10 power attacks with a great sword). Obviously wearing high class heavy armor should get you more protected from unblocked hits but fights shouldn't be 10 minutes of hack and slashing (though 10 minutes of baiting and blocking is fine).

-Locational damage (an arrow to the unprotected head should result in death. Arrow to unprotected region=more damage than to protected region [depending of course of bow strength. If this is too much I'll settle for locational damage based on whether or not armor is had, i.e. unprotected head=death 100% of the time]).

-Improved AI (dodging, flanking, teamwork, blocking, essentially fighting with a fear of death and desire to win as opposed to fighting like a raging autistic person [no offense meant, I work with these people and love them dearly but they attack in a rather "unhindered" fashion if they're angry at times])

-Bonuses based on stance (i.e. sneak attacks to the back = instant death [throat slit], sneak attack while sleeping = instant death, flat footed/sword undrawn = extra damage due to being off guard, etc).

 

I'm torn on whether to use SkyRe or drop a mod in with another list of mods so help with this would be great. Also noting if any of these are compatible with SkyRe would be great, or common mods they're not compatible with (i.e. any sort of perk overhaul, SPERG, ERSO, etc), and whether or not they're functional/recommended.

 

 

 

 

Basically what bothered me in the vanilla is that I could sneak up on anyone at any time and get one hit kills with little effort - I like the idea of instant death if you catch someone from behind off guard but sneaking shouldn't be doable in heavy armor when it's bright or noisy. I didn't like that I could spam smithing and end up with a daedric one handed sword that almost 2 or 3 hit people at level 35 and wear armor that would make me almost unkillable when fighting bandits and the like. I didn't like that there was little reward for skill in that dodging didn't apply and that certain hits were chance, and it really didn't matter where you hit people (head shots with an arrow="MUST HAVE BEEN THE WIND").

 

Any help is appreciated! Hopefully that was coherent...

Edited August 12, 2013 by cfguy

[ArtMurder]

I personally use Skyrim Redone + Locational Damage, these work magically together. Thanks to LD being very costumizable, I have it set up so that hitting someone in the back with a weapon can be almost certain to score a major hit, but hitting them in the arm or shoulder will not be very likely to score such a hit. Also, shooting someone in the head with an arrow is instant death (including yourself) UNLESS the person is wearing a heavy helmet. hitting them in the chest or back with an arrow is almost sure to be a major hit, but arrows hits to the arms and legs are not very dangerous. Also, hits to foot are very sure to cause serious damage, if you manage to actually hit someone there. LD itself has different debuff effects applied depending on where you are hit, for example I believe being hit in the feet slows your movement skill, hit in the arm weakens your effectiveness with weapons. It can be a little glitchy, but I personally find it worth it. for the most part the only glitch you will get is 'random instant deaths' and sense i play on high difficulty with my hud totally disabled, I can rarely tell that I have been 'randomly' instantly killed, or just legitimately instantly killed. This glitch is pretty rare though, I only had it happen once that I know of, and almost always when it does happen it will happen when you load an autosave that was saved in the middle of combat, this makes all the scripts fire at once. It doesn't create lag or in-game problems noticeably though, and that's what counts.

 

SkyRe focuses more on the stats and skills, making combat something you have to prepare for and think about. SkyRe is hard to describe, but you talk like you know it well, so I'll assume you do.

 

Also, I use a couple ESRO modules with SkyRe, you just have to know which ones you can and can't use. The main one I use is one that makes dragon priests an actual challenge.

Edited August 12, 2013 by ArtMurder

[cfguy]

Thanks for the post. I actually don't know SkyRe well at all or this choice might be easier :). I've done a bit of reading on it but if you have any comparisons or example I would be delighted.

 

Thanks for your time!

[ArtMurder]

Well I have always used SkyRe myself. It makes skyrim feel more... engaging? Gives you more choices, makes your choices in character building matter more, and makes one character build different from another. In vanilla skyrim I always ended up playing a battlemage, no matter what build I started with, even if I started with thief.

 

SkyRe also makes the game more challenging, where it should be. Unlike some mods like requiem that just basically add zeros to the end of all damage so that everything is totally impossible on any difficulty past novice, it makes it so that average battles feel normal, but hard battles really are a challenge. The only thing that really bugs the hell out of me is mudcrabs are hard to kill for some reason, on level one I can kill a whole pack of wolves without dying, but I have to use 4-5 health potions and reload at least twice to kill a large mudcrab. o_o

 

I look at SkyRe as a base platform, all my other big mods like frostfall and locational damage are designed to compliment it, when they would not compliment vanilla well. It basically amps up all the generic boring parts of skyrim, from races, to standing stones, to weapon skills, and makes it so that they don't feel ungodly boring when you encounter them over the modded content, and so that you don't have to waste 100 mod slots on find tons of other tiny mods that do the things it does.

 

It's basically a giant book of tiny tweaks, designed to make the whole game flow better, and make it so that every option is a viable one. for example, in vanilla skyrim, you can't really use the pickpocket and lockpicking skill trees, or the speech skill tree, because you have to dump a ton of perks into them to get lots of useless perks before you can get the one or two decent ones, SkyRe makes it so that if you want to use a skill, or a type of character build, it is viable right from the start, instead of forcing you to wait until you are level 50 and having nothing better to dump your perks in.

[cfguy]

That's basically what I've heard it described as. It really does seem like a fantastic mod, I'm just not sure what to think of the combat systems and the like. From what I've seen it looks OK but not quite as dangerous. Looks similar to vanilla just somewhat harder? The perk tree is something that definitely draws me but honestly if I can find a mod that overhauls that just as well I might not use SkyRe. Too many options, too little time!

[thenobody0]

At the moment I use Deadly Combat. I've previously tried Duel and SkyRe. I like Deadly Combat the best. My two cents.

[ArtMurder]

If you are looking for 'dangerous', the authuor of SkyRe has another SkyProc patch (like reproccer, something you need if you want to use SkyRe with other weapon and armor mods) Called WTF, that changes around enemy spawns, so they are less based on your level, you can enter a ruin and the enemies might be the same level as you, or they might be waaay higher. it's very costumizable as well. I personally use these with another SkyProc patch called ASIS, that modifies enemies, spawning more of them, giving them spells from other mods, and a lot of other smaller tweaks. This may sound complicated, but all you need is something called "SUM" this will automatically run all SkyProc patches in the right order, as well as run BOSS between each one, and all you have to do is hit one button!

 

I have never tried duel or deadly combat myself, I have tried duke patricks, but it does not work with SkyRe, and I can't make myself play without SkyRe.

 

SkyRe really isn't similar to vanilla at all really, in fact, it probably changes the entire game further from vanilla then any other single mod in existence, and I would not say its just "okay" to be honest, it and frostfall are probably the two best mods on the site, at least in my opinion. SkyRe makes picking a character build actually enjoyable, and makes it so that the perks you choose have a drastic effect on your game play. It is primarily a perk overhaul, with a GIANT list of other tweaks it does to make those tweaks work well. Like I said, the best part about it is, you can make ANY character build and it's viable. Want to play a bard? How about a pure theif, rather then a mage/assassin thief? or how about a pure alchemist? All very viable, playable character builds.

 

And there is no mod out there that even comes close to touching on SkyRe's overhaul of perks. A lot do tweak perks, but most of them just grossly overpower one or two skill trees and leave the rest un touched, and if you try and mix and match a bunch of other skill tree mods, they are so unbalanced and chaotic it can be infuriating, you literally would be left to install mods based around your character build. For example, if you want to play a necromancer, I know of an amazing necromancy mod that totally overhauls the conjuration skill tree, but with that mod installed playing anything but a conjuration based mage would leave you at a disadvantage.

 

 

 

If you do use SkyRe, I suggest using mods like Midas Magic, and Apocalypse Spell Package, as well (especially if you decide on using ASIS, which will add these new spells to enemies) or whatever other spell mod you like. SkyRe leaves destructive magic under powered compared to vanilla, because in vanilla you can dump all you perks in destruction magic, and flop some high rated armor on and blow through the entire game. Rather then over-powering it again, I use other spells to have options, to me, that's what magic is, the ultimate source of options, there should be a spell for damn near every situation!

[darkmadmax]

I am actually in the process of compling data and testing various mods, I didnt quite finalize the testing procedure , but I did detailed analysis of the mods with tes5edit, I also now understand much better the mechanics of combat and encounters alteration made by mods (and subsequently the deficiencies of the vanilla system and also flaws not addressed by those mods)

MOD Name	GMST	Combat Styles	Scripts	Magic Effects	Perks	Spells	Init Quest	Weapon		Notes
Deadly Combat	X		X	X	X	X	X			Stagger block from timed blocking, seems like a more clean version of DUEL
DUEL-Realism	X		X	X	X	X	X	DirtyEdit		Custom Effects is combined with scripts
ERSO AI		X								Overrides default combat styles
ASIS-combat	X									A lot GMST  but only that
SkyRe_Combat	X			X	X	X	X			Stagger on block, block,reach, regen,effects on hit etc
SkyRe_EnemyAI	X	X								4 GMST and override default styles (close to erso)
Combat Remastered	X		X	X						Fairly advanced custom effects for combat
										
										
	LNPC	Named NPC	Custom Magic Effects	Custom Weaps	Custom Spells	Custom Shouts	Custom Projectiles	Custom Perks	Custom Combat Styles	Notes
Rebirth Monster	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	Overrides NPC and LNPC with buffed custom effects,some borderline OP
StrongEnemyExtreme		X	X	X	X	X	X	X		Mechanics same as above but only for nameds. many brokenly Overpowered NPC
ERSO NPC	X	X	X		X			X		Stock perks, protected npcs,Stat boost
SkyRe_EnemyScaling	X	X			X			X		
										

Edited October 22, 2013 by Dark_MadMax