Progress on my childlike races mod

[DarkSpyda04]

Alright, I planned out a good size for a 10yr old which is 4'8 or in the race body data, 0.8. The child should be at chest height with any race except for the 1.1 High Elf which stands at 6"6. If you want to know the source of this information, it's because I did all of the measurements myself. It seems as though every .1 is equal to half a foot or 6in.

 

0.9 = 5.6ft

1.0 = 6ft

1.1 = 6.6ft

 

This is not how I measured it, however. I'm not sure exactly what .1 represents. I imported a block at Xft tall to figure this out. What confuses me is how 4'8 is 0.8. I just know for a fact that the player is 6ft and the High Elf is 6"6ft because 1ft or 1 Unit in Oblivion is 21.3in. 21.3*6 = 127.8in with 128in being 6ft. 6.6ft is 138.45in.

 

Normally, 1ft = 12in

However in Oblivion, 1ft = 21.3in

Therefore the difference is 1.775 and 12*1.775 = 21.3 :D

 

These measurements work fine if you're trying to find out how many feet tall an object in the game-world is but as to what .1 is equal to in the race body data, I am clueless. I'm sure it's something really simple but my brain just goes flat trying to figure it out. It's like NOPE. If .1 really IS equal to .6, then why does 4'8 the same size as 0.8 which should otherwise be 4in taller? Maybe I was just comparing height wrong? After all, a 6ft block is slightly over a 1.0 Imperial's head. 5'10 seems to be slightly over a 0.8's head. I bet the High Elf is measured wrong too because the block is perfectly leveled with his head at 6'6.

 

Child 4'10 (0.8000) (102.95)

Imperial 6' (1.0000) (127.80)

High Elf 6'8 (1.1000) (135.45)

 

Child to High Elf = 32.5 (3 steps available)

32.5/3 = 10.83

 

.1 = 10.83?

 

8/10 = .8

1in = .8?

.1 = 8in?

 

10.83 != 8

Neither are equal to .1

1.35 difference

 

1.35/2 = 0.675

.1 = 10.155?

 

Falls face-down in a puddle of mud*

 

You can see how mindless this is to figure out. And this was judging the race height by eye. Some of my guesses could be off by an inch and I'd never know. Is there any documentation on the race body data?

Edited August 27, 2013 by DarkSpyda04

[Glitchipedia]

I have no idea if such documentation exists. I suppose we could ask around or, if all else fails, Google it.

 

If the head of the x117 races is at 1.17 scale, then logically, the body would be roughly 0.83 scale, close to the height you're recommending. In my opinion, this looks taller than how I imagine children should appear in the game, whether it's realistic or not—my thought on the subject is that they should be very noticeably diminutive when compared to the adult characters. My child characters stand at 0.7 scale (with an appropriate 1.3 scale head), approximately waist height with my male Breton player character, and I think they look just fine like that.

 

Of course, creating children of multiple different ages (scales) could add further realism and immersion. But let's get the 0.7 ones out of the way first.

[DarkSpyda04]

.7 seems to be stomach height with a Bretan woman and slightly over belt height with a High Elf and of course, at neck-height with the 4'8-4'10 10yr old. It's much taller than 3'6, however. 4', maybe? Perhaps around 7yrs more or less? I'd have to do a lot of work to give you a more accurate number but here's a screenshot comparison between the two:

 

.7 - http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac172/DarkSpydaIV/7_zps2311c240.png

.8 - http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac172/DarkSpydaIV/8_zpsb39d3dc1.png

 

Regardless of what we're seeing here, when you play the game and children are all midgets, it seems a little odd. I still prefer the .8 appeal. Think of it in terms of no other NPC's being around but that child. Now all of the sudden they seem like they're too short and could be taller. It's only when you compare them with others do they seem too tall.

 

And I think to find out what .1 means I'd have to be persistent and collect a lot more data before I begin to see commonalities. It's like a game of Hang Man. You need to see the letters that comprise the word before you can figure out what the word is. Mathematics seems to be tied greatly to logic. It might be worth investing my time into so that I, and no-one else has to do 5x the work.

 

I aligned 1.0 Body Data height Imperials from .3 scale to 1.5. So far it's looking pretty consistent. The one with the white background is the 1.0, standard-sized Imperial.

 

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac172/DarkSpydaIV/yyy_zps0ba6bdfb.png

 

I might've been going about this all wrong and I might just be able to find the scale factor in terms of Oblivion Units after all. Then I'll be able to figure out the exact mathematical scale of mesh. I'll make a ruler that measures in inches and feet, up to four feet and then I'll multiply the size by 1.775 before importing it into Oblivion. It will be a single box with a hand-crafted texture on it and the proportions will be 100% precise. In addition, this ruler may have further use in the future.

 

In Max, the ruler will be 4ft - 6 x 12 x 48 and in Oblivion, it will be 10.65 x 21.3 x 85.2 which is 4ft by Oblivion standards.

The texture will be 1024x4096 because even a 2048x2048 texture has proven to be of insufficient resolution.

 

I still wish there was a visual radius programmed into the CS measured in Oblivion Units/inches x 1.775 like there was in say Halo Reach so that when I have a condition that requires an NPC to be within X radius I know right away how big that radius is. What would happen is you create a guide object and up the radius until you match it with the radius your condition requires. Unfortunately I don't think it would be easy because you'd be increasing the size by scale factor. You'd have do math based on a formula every time you want to set the guide's radius. It's a really ghetto method to use when creating a simple mod but it'd also ensure absolute precision.

 

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac172/DarkSpydaIV/RuletTest_zpsf4b55366.png

 

The ruler works like a charm. I snapped two 4ft rulers together. As you can see, the Imperial is indeed exactly 6ft tall at 1.0 scale. NOW I can give you results. By the way if you were wondering what those blocks are in the background, those were primitive measurements to see how tall an actor was. With the ruler, I will no longer have to rely on them and the data will be much more accurate. And yes, I do plan on releasing this; maybe by Sunday at the latest. I'll probably hand it out alongside a tutorial of sorts.

Edited August 29, 2013 by DarkSpyda04

[Glitchipedia]

If my math is right—and it may not be, as I haven't done it in a while—then 0.7 scale (70% of 6') should be about 4' 2.4"? Seems like a reasonable height to me.

 

As it stands, the idea is that you can't see a child character without an adult character present—as I don't plan to make children playable, they will only be seen in the presence of the adult player character. Making them playable would require heavy scripting of the first person skeleton, if that's even possible.

 

All of this will be meaningless, however, if the mesh issues aren't addressed. The way I see it, there's two ways to go about fixing the boys' body:

1. Resize the top half of Room207's CrossDressing Body Replacer to fit the bottom half of Robert's Male Body Replacer 5.
2. Fit the bottom half of the CrossDressing Body with its own pair of underwear.

I tried the second option and it failed spectacularly—the underwear looked fine in Nifskope, but turned transparent in the Construction Kit. I suppose I could try doing it in Blender instead, but that program has always made my head spin.

 

The girls' bodies need no additional attention; I have matched an appropriately-proportioned set of HGEC clothes that cover all the areas that need covering (essentially the entire torso; only their head, arms, hands, legs and feet are left exposed).

 

Flat-chested HGEC clothes and armor can be used as well, meaning absolutely no new clothes have to be made for the girls and we can just repackage the existing ones (with the permission and acknowledgment of their creators, of course). Only the boys will need new clothes tailored specifically to their bodies.

 

The most serious issue, of course, lies with the head. I think I may know what I've done wrong, but attempting to correct that error is going to be a serious doozy. I'm pretty sure the neck rigging and weighting have somehow been lost; I may be able to fix it with Growlf's weighting template, but I can't say for sure. Additionally, I may be able to correct the neck's actual alignment by importing the appropriate upper body mesh and aligning the neck manually, though the results of that, too, may be unpredictable.

 

The truth of the matter is, when it comes to these sorts of things, I understand concept much better than I understand execution. :sweat: Meh, once we get past the meshing stage and into the scripting stage, maybe I won't feel so lost. :laugh:

[DarkSpyda04]

Actually, yes. The data I recorded measured in a .7 NPC at 4.2 or 4'2" so your math is dead-accurate. Percentages, huh? Well that's a much easier way to go about this. It uses a relatively simple equation. To find 70% of 6, you divide 70 by 100 and multiply that number by 6.

 

A/100 * B = C

 

Wow. As it turns out from using percentages, some of my measurements were off and 4'9" becomes 4'8". Not only is it a breeze to find an accurate height, but it returns precise data. I never even thought about using percentages. This is why two heads are better than one. Well... maybe not. 1' is 12", right? And when a decimal hits 10 it returns to 0, right? What does this mean?

 

Regardless, the data I'm getting makes .1 equal to 6" through consistency. 0.8 = 4'8" AND 0.9 = 5'4" BUT like I said, it's rounding numbers out two inches early. This offers a confusing twist, a confusing and contradictory twist indeed. 0.9 would otherwise be 5'2". But I have an idea that explains all of this.

 

http://www.americathebrewtiful.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Aliens-meme.jpg

 

And thus I once again find myself stuck. What's interesting is how .1 of a 6' object is 6". Might that make .1 of a 2' object 2"?

Edited August 29, 2013 by DarkSpyda04

[Glitchipedia]

I tried forgoing feet and measuring entirely in inches.

 

6' = 72"

(70 ÷ 100) ∙ 72 = 50.4

 

I checked my work two different ways. First, I tried this:

 

50.4 ÷ 12 = 4.2

 

Doubting the accuracy, I isolated the .2 and multiplied it by twelve.

 

.2 ∙ 12 = 2.4

 

Then just to be absolutely sure, I manually separated the original 50.4" into smaller groups. A tedious process I'd never get away with on a test, but amazingly effective.

 

50.4 - 12 = 38.4

38.4 - 12 = 26.4

26.4 - 12 = 14.4

14.4 - 12 = 2.4

 

As you can see, we get four groups of 12", with 2.4" left over, confirming my original result of 4' 2.4".

 

So, my theory: after calculating the rough percentage in feet, I recommend isolating the decimal and multiplying it by twelve to get the exact number of extra inches.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Glitchipedia

[DarkSpyda04]

If I get what you're saying, 0.6 = 3' 7.2". I'm going to have to play around with that formula for a bit.

 

No doubt about it. 0.1 = 7.2.

 

1.0 = 6' 0.0"

0.9 = 5' 4.8"

0.8 = 4' 9.6"

0.7 = 4' 2.4"

0.6 = 3' 7.2"

0.5 = 3' 0.0"

0.4 = 2' 4.8"

0.3 = 1' 9.6"

0.2 = 1' 2.4"

0.1 = 0' 7.2"

0.0 = 0' 0.0"

 

 

You can find the next number by counting with your fingers and the result is dead-accurate XD. I also picked up a code. Three codes. 07294, 02468, and 00112334456677899-. You don't even need to count with your fingers. You can guess the next number with logic. As for an equation to solve far and off numbers, you've already provided that. I already know that 6.4 = 38' 4.8" and it only took two minutes to solve. I also know that 6.5 = 39' 0.0" because I solved the previous number. I do believe we have a rock-solid understanding of the scale factor and its impact on an object's height.

 

Now the question remains of an object that was imported into Oblivion and isn't of the 6ft = 1.0 scale factor. It could cause quite a headache unless we find a conversion formula. I already pointed out how .1 of a 6' object is 6". and then suggested that .1 of a 2' object might be 2". However, .1 actually equals 7.2" or 6.0 * 12 and then the result divided by 10. Therefore, .1 of a 2" object might be 2.4.

 

1.0 = 2' 0.0"

0.9 = 1' 9.6"

0.8 = 1' 7.2"

0.7 = 1' 4.8"

0.6 = 1' 2.4"

0.5 = 1' 0.0"

0.4 = 0' 9.6"

0.3 = 0' 7.2"

0.2 = 0' 4.8"

0.1 = 0' 2.4"

0.0 = 0' 0.0"

 

Complete with its own set of patterns. 02479, 04826, and 000001111122222-.

Conversion formula: 0.1 = (A * 12) / 10 with 'A' being the height in feet of your object at the scale factor of 1.0.

 

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac172/DarkSpydaIV/achievement_unlocked_2-1_zps200dffba.png

Edited August 30, 2013 by DarkSpyda04

[Glitchipedia]

That sounds reasonable to me, but if I may ask, what does this have to do with the scale of child characters anymore? :tongue:

[DarkSpyda04]

It didn't have anything to do with the scale of child characters. I was just trying to figure out what 0.1 had been equal to and then a simple formula to figure out that same problem. I still want to see a child in Oblivion, however so I'll probably stick around.

[DarkSpyda04]

Just one question before I can release my findings.

 

Do I have your permission to use and/or modify (the formula that you used in finding the NPC's height, the value of 0.1, and the object's height in inches at its current scale) under the terms that I give you credit for your share of the work?