jaysus Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 @major al quaida - was the name of the CIA program to arm the mudjahedins with a bunch of nice arms to fight the ruskieslike in most conflicts they were left to themselves after the cause was abandoned which of course like in many other instances (irak, vietnam and so on) created some hatred towards the us - betrayal would be a good word for the reason of that hatred (the hatred in vietnam noone ever heard of since they are still in hiding and getting slaughtered) and as your government says that al quaida is responsible for 911 (in regards to alQ being the taliban or saddam i doubt that), the CIA was responsible for them... if my son would kill someone on the street id be responsible too... im not saying youre not allowe to defend yourself but invading a (two) whole country and killing millions of innocents is totally off bat... the reason doesnt justify all means - like extorting civilians of allied countries for example or using white phosphor in an amount that it becomes a weapon and not just a light source - why not do a fine investigation, find out who is really responsible and have him vanish? calling the arabs nihilistic and barbaric is also totally wrong lol... they are some of the most pious people on this planet tho i dont agree with all their views they have a right to have them... barbaric is also totally off as most are quite the civil people and half our western society is based on their wisdom - in regards to fanatics i agree tho but they aint the only barbarians that are around - afterall the us gov supports saudia arabia and egypt and the govs of these countries reallly are barbaric even tho the humble citizens are just as good as us... what about christian fanatics like G.Bush? id honestly be more afraid of those as they have the means to really screw us all... the us being the root of jihadism - well they are the reason for alot of hatred around the world due to their aggressive military expansion and disregard for other cultures - the jihad as it is formulated in the koran is somin totally else than what is being called jihad atm... i mean i would understand if the whole of islam would feel itself endangered but just take my word that 90% of all so called terrorists dont even speak arabic... so how are they supposed to understand the koran? they get told some freaky story about virgins and all that stuff and of course believe it and in the face of their families being killed off one by one i can understand how they buckle the belt and push the red button attached... ---------- the problem goes alot deeper tho and youll never understand the whole thing if you dont look behind those fanatics and their actions aswell as yours... for example the ilegit coup operations by the IMF and WTO, who are both vetoed by the us which in turn is controlled by the banking system due to the FED and its seperation from government control - thats why i call you US americans slaves all the time... you are not the democratic nation anymore jefferson proclaimed but became puppets under total control... these very people who own the FED are also those that are the only thing common apart from dead people in all wars since napoleon - they control everything from media to companies to banks up to the money printing...through the IMF this enables them to control whole countries as these are in need of IMF help, a situation which often resulted out of aggressive market expansion and corporate actions in terms of military coups and mercenary support - their "help" is totally useless tho as they control how much the money they give you is actually worth and sicne these very people are so important and powerful they have long taken over your government starting with the founding of the FED... (read jefferson on his opinion about such an institution like the FED) its not hard to imagine that most of the wars we witnessed were ignited by them, false flag ops are well know like the tonkin incident or hitlers reichtagsbrand, afterall they are the ones that finance all sides of a conflict and are the ones that get the revenue starting with the intel going over the bombs down to the troops supply up to the rebuilding of the place... i mean they dont need that money at all but its a nice tool to keep those that are their antworkers like your president or our cancellour under control, do you think bushy would have invaded iraq if he wouldnt be sure to be able to make a fortune there with halliBurton and the like? the CIA is one of the arms of that, call it "conspiracy" if you like, which serves as a creator of reasons to justify further expansionbut you cant really call it conspiracy since its going on since napoleon lost in waterloo and is more or less the system itself and doesnt even need much shadowing which would be a feature of a conspiracy - thus dont call me conspiracy theorist plz... thats somin else... 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MajKrAzAm Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 al quaida - was the name of the CIA program to arm the mudjahedins with a bunch of nice arms to fight the ruskieslike in most conflicts they were left to themselves after the cause was abandoned which of course like in many other instances (irak, vietnam and so on) created some hatred towards the us - betrayal would be a good word for the reason of that hatred (the hatred in vietnam noone ever heard of since they are still in hiding and getting slaughtered) What betrayal? The Soviet Union was expelled from Afghanistan. im not saying youre not allowe to defend yourself That’s precisely what your insinuating if you follow the logical conclusion of your argument. and as your government says that al quaida is responsible for 911 (in regards to alQ being the taliban or saddam i doubt that), the CIA was responsible for them... if my son would kill someone on the street id be responsible too... If we created them –and we certainly did not - then all the more reason to rectify our error. in regards to fanatics i agree tho but they aint the only barbarians that are around - afterall the us gov supports saudia arabia and egypt and the govs of these countries reallly are barbaric even tho the humble citizens are just as good as us...” Spare the cliché... Next you'll be saying the worlds a dangerous place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajKrAzAm Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 calling the arabs nihilistic and barbaric is also totally wrong lol... they are some of the most pious people on this planet tho i dont agree with all their views they have a right to have them... barbaric is also totally off as most are quite the civil people and half our western society is based on their wisdom - in regards to fanatics i agree tho but they aint the only barbarians that are around - afterall the us gov supports saudia arabia and egypt and the govs of these countries reallly are barbaric even tho the humble citizens are just as good as us... Arabs? The United States and the West is not at war with an ethnic group. You fall the erroneous belief that Islam is an ethnic group and that Arabs are all muslim. Both groups are not a monolithic block and are just as fissile and diverse as other religious and ethnic groups. Arabs are pious? I take it you have never tried the pork chops Ramadan special in the Amman Hilton, Jordan. Don’t make such absurd generalizations I know many active atheist Arabs in my university. Also, Piety is a word that I only use exclusively as a pejorative. Further, they certainly have the right to hold their views, as I too, also have the right to criticize and ridicule their views. The West is not indebted to Islamic/Arab thought as you and many others suggest. This is intellectual blackmail that amounts to mere tribalism. It attempts to usurp the achievements of the West and insinuate that we would all be living in mud huts had it not been for the spread of Islam. what about christian fanatics like G.Bush? id honestly be more afraid of those as they have the means to really screw us all.. I too, am not a fan of the religious views of George W. Bush. However, the surreptitious moral equivalence that you’re implying here between the various Islamist riff-raff and GWB is sinister. The United States has a Separation of church and state, and so even if GWB held fanatical views he would be unable to propagate these views or use them as a casus belli for a crusade as some have suggested. What more, despite the shortcomings of the past 8 years the United States has checks and balances and liberal institutions that uphold accountability and the rule of law. He does not have the means to “really screw us all” as you suggest. the us being the root of jihadism - well they are the reason for alot of hatred around the world due to their aggressive military expansion and disregard for other cultures The US has never and should not acquiesce in the placation of objectively inferior cultural practises. It cannot by definition appease a religion. From all your postings regarding "US military expansion" you seem to suggest that Bin Ladenism/ Jihadism is some sort of Third World Liberation Theology on par with Che Guevara or Ghandi which is merely responding to the Great Satan that is Imperial America. the jihad as it is formulated in the koran is somin totally else than what is being called jihad atm. Wrong again. Neither, you, I or any Islamic scholar can condone or condemn suicide mass murder. The Koran and Hadith is said to be infallible and unalterable. They can be interpreted to support both views, and unfortunately neither the head of Sunnis in Egypt nor the Ayatollahs of Tehran have released edicts claiming it to be haaram. i mean i would understand if the whole of islam would feel itself endangered but just take my word that 90% of all so called terrorists dont even speak arabic... so how are they supposed to understand the koran? they get told some freaky story about virgins and all that stuff and of course believe it and in the face of their families being killed off one by one i can understand how they buckle the belt and push the red button attached... These actions are not done because they are a misrepresentation of religion or an exploitation of it. They are done because of it. (read jefferson on his opinion about such an institution like the FED) Believe me I’m well aware of Thomas Jefferson. What you’re attempting to do is set yourself an impossible task in which you portray the Islamist menace as some sort of Third World Liberation Theology that is the result of US hegemonic imperialism. Let me reiterate that point again, the blowing up of the Bamyan Buddha’s or the ransacking of the Afghan national museum, or the destruction of Shia religious sites by Sunni fanatics is not the result of an attempt at US “Chomskyesque” global dominance. Go and look at the letter sent by the ambassador of Tripoli to Thomas Jefferson preceding the First Barbary War and you will see that this is not a problem that has existed only since the United States started meddling in foreign affairs. It has always been a problem and it is high time that it is confronted and eviscerated through fury and fire and not the accommodation of religious/cultural grievances by absurd human rights laws. In an attempt to filter all American foreign policy through your global political perspective you have inadvertly given tacit apologetic approval to the most vulgar, repulsive and vile ideology that is diametrically opposed to the values of the enlightenment and liberal thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed8020 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 snipWow. I'm not sure if it's the proper use of kudos but you just earned one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysus Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 @qmajor your 2ndpost: im glad you realize the difference between arabs and muslim... sure there are muslim who give a damn about their faith, nevertheless even those that eat pork and have orgies are still most of the time kinda pious, yes i use it, people... ive spent quite some time in arab countries, amongst arabs and not in a holiday inn so i think i can make that assumption... i didnt suggest that youre indebted to islamic thought but to arab wisdom... sorry if that was misundertandable sorry if i doubt the efficency of your institutions which should hold the US leaders accountable as the last one changed quite some laws of which some now contradict the constitution and basic rights given by it... as we've seen in iraq and afghanistan he (your leader) has the means to screw us all aslong as he can just bring up the slightest justification like for example WMDs in iraq whihch never existed (after that incident back in the late eighties) but were forged by the CIA im not suggestig that the "jihad" is a 3rd world liberation movement as i clearly state my view quite often that they (the terrorists) are merely acting on behalf of the FED and their long arms including the CIA (from a commanding point of view)...but i also state that i find it kinda understandable if someone stands up and fights back at what ever opressor he faces (from an individual point of view)... and if we take palestine for example, a suicide bomber is more or less the only possibility left for someone who lost his whole family and has no B2 bomber or a seat in the bilderberg association at hand... im not saying that a suicide attack has anything to do with islam and i even state that it is against the koran, wether a religious leader said so or not, but is an understandable action for those that have no other means...such action is also not done because of the religion as you suggest... they do it out of hopelessness and griefthe religion is used to make them more comfortable in their choice tho regarding your point of muslims destroying other religions holy places, why didnt anyone includig the us step in when that happened? you try to justify a war here which was started not to stop the evil menace taliban but much later after you were supposedly attacked... your 1st post: betrayal yes the ruskies were kicked out but then the whole country fell into anarchy... the taliban were the ones that emerged victorious and at least established some kind of ruleset (not to say that they are nice guys by no means) just to see you come in and bomb their legacy to piecesbut im also hinting at the other wars in which you used minorities to fight for you and then left em at the mercy of those they fought - there are still people in this world who suffer due to it like for example the hmong, where are you to save em now? if the us is such an honorable country you should at least try to broker a deal with the vietnamese or cambodians to stop them from slaughtering those people... rectifying a mistakego ahead do it... but keep the rest of the world out of it... to take up my example of the son again: my son killed someone and instead of turning him over to the authorities or just taking him down i go to the playground hes at and kill everyone around just to be sure and because the other kids probably supported him?... nah... that cant be your honest belief...and i generally dont think that someone who produced a problem also knows how to solve it... a bomber pilot doesnt necessarily know how to build a bridge for example i welcome your points of view alot btw... at least there is some substance to them that makes it worth to argue about lol :P another btw:the us is not the only country in the grip of evil imo... but were mainly talking bout em here so im focusing on them not the brits, french nor ruskies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiber Septim Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 "The deadliest weapon in the world is a MARINE and his Rifle!"General Pershing, US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris2010 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 British SAS, because our boys are the best of the best. "Those who dare, win" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiber Septim Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 British SAS, because our boys are the best of the best. "Those who dare, win" Uhh... there's no SAS in the US. If you want to vote, you'll have to pick one of the polls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris2010 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 'Which Military Branch would you rather serve?' I didn't vote, I care not for the US armed forces because I am British. So I put forward my answer based upon that question. Why must this thread be only for the Americans? When other nationalities could discuss their choices rather than being bound to having to vote or not. And, if I was American I would probably vote for the marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysus Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 lol... tiber is getting rich :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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