Who is the greatest hero of Elderscroll?

[Indigoblade]

 

 

The answer is me, I play as all of them. So all of them are me, unless you are playing them, then the answer is you

Somebody doesn't roleplay it seems.

I do, while I'm playing these games I roleplay as the character I play, so I am those characters :P

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

@PJ:

But by that time the CoC's "destiny" to deliver the AoK had been fulfilled like 20 quests ago. She takes the Amulet, packs it off to the Blades, and her "destiny" is done. The King knew to hand her the amulet, that she would get it to the Blades.

It's the Blades who fiddle around and lose the darn thing, but it's not your destiny to help them get it back -- it's your choice. Your destiny was to deliver, and you got it done.

(In a linear quest of course everything is "destiny", but it's a plausible story alternative if she delivers the Amulet then goes fishing maybe Savlian inspires Martin to go fulfill his destiny without your involvement. The player's PoV jumps to Savlian, Savlian becomes the "Hero of Kvatch", and he and Martin go deal with the Oblivion crisis while The Amulet Courier of Destiny goes hunting Nirnroots for Sindarion.)

[Lachdonin]

@PJ:

But by that time the CoC's "destiny" to deliver the AoK had been fulfilled like 20 quests ago. She takes the Amulet, packs it off to the Blades, and her "destiny" is done. The King knew to hand her the amulet, that she would get it to the Blades.

It's the Blades who fiddle around and lose the darn thing, but it's not your destiny to help them get it back -- it's your choice. Your destiny was to deliver, and you got it done.

(In a linear quest of course everything is "destiny", but it's a plausible story alternative if she delivers the Amulet then goes fishing maybe Savlian inspires Martin to go fulfill his destiny without your involvement. The player's PoV jumps to Savlian, Savlian becomes the "Hero of Kvatch", and he and Martin go deal with the Oblivion crisis while The Amulet Courier of Destiny goes hunting Nirnroots for Sindarion.)

 

Destiny is rarely so simple a thing. Nor are you specifically told that your destiny is to deliver the Amulet to the Blades. Of course, choice still remains in all things. The Scrolls can't MAKE you do something, they simply record the myriad of possibilities which spread out from each action. Only one successive chain of choices leads to the world surviving, though.

[WolfPalatine]

Who is the Greatest Hero is kind of a loaded question, but all right.

 

Let's see who're in the competing list. We've got the Eternal Champion of Daggerfall, the Nerevarine, the Champion of Cyrodiil (or Sheogorath, if that's your fancy - I'll get to that) and of course, the ubiquitous Dragonborn.

 

I've never played Daggerfall, only read of it, so I can't comment on it. I have played from Morrowind onwards, so I'll concern myself with the other three.

 

In terms of general ass-kicking, the Nerevarine takes the top spot, hands down. When was the last time you found a guy/gal who kills Four Godlike beings? Dagoth-Ur, Almalexia, Sotha Sil and (optionally) Vivec. In addition to this, you've changed the course of an entire race's destiny (the Dunmer). The Nerevarine's actions brought about the events which led to the fall of the Tribunal, the second eruption of Vvardenfell, the exodus of hordes of Dunmer from Morrowind (the Argonian invasion excepted) and the Dunmer occupation of Solstheim (which, all things considered, has a more significant role to play than just the outcome of the Dragonborn DLC - Ebony is freaking expensive, worth a lot in exports, you see).

 

In terms of megalomania, the Champion of Cyrodiil takes top spot. Since all information points to the Champion being female, I'll use the feminine gender. She spent more time walking the planes of Oblivion than any other mortal (barring the events of the book "The Doors of Oblivion" by Sief ad-Hidja). She brings about the defeat of Mehrunes Dagon by giving the last Septim the chance to become an avatar of Akatosh. She fulfills the destiny of the Knights of the Nine by defeating Umaril as the will of Pelinal Whitestrake. And - to top it all - she becomes the new Sheogorath after the defeat of the Greymarch and the vanquishing of Jyggalag. She, in effect, becomes a God, or something pretty close to it (Daedric Princes have a lot of power). When was the last time you saw someone do all that?

 

In contrast, the Dragonborn looks like a pretty lame-ass. Other than defeating the Alduin the World-Devourer (which was his/her destiny to begin with - and which is certainly not the case with the Nerevarine and the Champion of Cyrodiil [YES, you CAN fail the Main Quest in both cases and still play the game]) and becoming the head of every guild in Skyrim, plus the murder of Emperor Titus Mede II (which is, admittedly, pretty awesome), there's nothing particularly special about this hero. Defeating an ancient Vampire Lord and killing off the first Dragonborn are the feats which truly made him/her great, but not awe-inspiring like the other Heroes.

 

All things considered, the contest is evenly split between the Nerevarine and the Champion of Cyrodiil. The Dragonborn isn't even a serious contender, let alone their equal.

 

That's my two Septims on it. :smile:

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

The Dragonborn wins the "who you'd most like to have a beer with" contest. The HoK / CoC is more powerful and leads a more intellectually stimulating life, but the Dragonborn, Hadvar, and Ralof bursting into drunken song in the Sleeping Giant Inn, their past differences forgotten, who wouldn't want to knock back one too many Honningbrews with those guys?

 

The CoC is the intense intellectual type, more at home pondering Daedric artifacts and the nature of Oblivion with the equally well-educated and soft-spoken Martin Septim. While their conversations would be endlessly fascinating, cogitating on the nature of the universe doesn't win the beer prize. Hadvar and Ralof would be bored to tears. The Dragonborn would never bore his drinking buddies.

 

On the other hand Sheogorath knows how to have fun, so maybe Ann Marie learns to lighten up in the course of defeating / liberating Jyggalag. But Sheo is an act. She might as well be doing the royal wave when she declares, "Cheese for everyone." When the Dragonborn buys the room a round of mead he's really feeling it.

 

My two drunken Septims anyway.

[Papajack55]

As we all seemed to have forgotten one thing in Oblivion, it was Emperor Uriel Septim who to him/her, "It's you! Your the one I saw in my dreams!" That was his/her pardon when he explained about his sons and how he was next.

 

The Dragonborn has a few times where she/he was intellectually involved politically and with daedric artifacts also. He/she had to deal with the Greybeards, no matter what. Also on how to achieve the skeleton key and getting it back to return it to Nocturnal in Skyrim whereas in Oblivion all the HoK had to do was retrive the Eye of Nocturnal and return it. Now think what the HoK could do if he/she could actually shout in the dragon language as the Dragonborn could? Then how do you think the HoK could come out looking like? (I seriously been thinking about a mod like that for Oblivion, but don't think Bethesda would appreciate it)...LOL

The DR. has gone directly against Mehrunes Dagon, whereas HoK hasn't, Martin Septim did at the Temple of One. Dragonborn fought the very first Dragonborn Miraak who turned against everyone for his own personal reasons as did Queen Potema did in E97 when she stated, "Bring on the daedra. I'll trade every one of my subjects for a bit of comfort!"

By the way, Queen Potema in Skyrim who was Jarl of Solitude at one time before being run out, she was the mother of Emperor Uriel Septim's Grandfather Uriel Septim.

From the way I'm writing, looks like I have too much time on my hands. :)

[Lachdonin]

The CoC is the intense intellectual type, more at home pondering Daedric artifacts and the nature of Oblivion with the equally well-educated and soft-spoken Martin Septim

 

Where ever would you get that idea? The CoC is Pelinal reborn, a barely functional killing machine, not some politically minded academic. He then goes bat s#*! crazy.

 

If anything, the Nerevarine and the Blades Agent (Daggerfall) are the most politically minded. Both their jobs required them to gain support of multiple, conflicting factions and their guild work involved... you know... actual work, rather than just showing up at an opportune time and saving the world.

 

As for the whole Sheogorath thing... We've had this out elsewhere before. extensively. However, the basics are, once you Mantle a god (Daedric Princes are, in fact, gods) that's it for you. With the Aedra, you actually change them, but theres no evidence that Mantling a Daedra has any impact on who they are, you just get absorbed.

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

You've got a point about the other two, but "barely-functional killing machine" doesn't begin to do justice to the CoC. She could not only close an Oblivion gate by herself, she could do so very quickly -- the Bruma mission suggests she had become an expert on the gates.

She's also the only one who can turn sigil stones into useful equipment. My Oblivion character spent most of her career in the brown shirt / silk dress outfit (which I think the publican of the Wawnet Inn wears) and not a single point of light or heavy armor -- just armor effects from sigil stones.

 

Even if Ann Marie eventually gets a brain wipe Sheo at least lets her live out her normal lifespan before overwriting her personality. You don't do a Fallout-3-style fade-to-black when you complete Shiveing Isles.

 

The only evidence I have for her personality is the way Martin talks to her. Especially when she brings him the Blood of the Daedra artifact (where you do a Daedric quest then give up the token) he seems to show her a lot of respect. (She's also of course the one who convinces him to get it in gear in the first place.)

 

She deals with Ancotar's invisibility puzzle. She cracks the code at Vahtacen (the player is confronted with an easy puzzle, but "in-character" it has stymied two experts for weeks.) She does a lot of stuff like that, and she seems to be treated with polite respect by people in power even as lesser nobles treat her with a snobbery that smacks of jealousy.

 

I can't really argue about the Daggerfall and Morrowind characters having a lot on the ball, but the CoC obviously did as well.

[Deleted5960587User]

I've only played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim so can only give opinions on the heroes from those games. Nerevarine for me is the greatest hero, simply because of the things he achieved. I respect the Champion of Cyrodiil the most though, the other two were born with great abilities such as being immune to disease, or being gifted in the shout, whereas the champion really was an ordinary man/woman with no inborn ability, yet he still achieved great things and charged head on into Oblivion gates.

[Lachdonin]

You've got a point about the other two, but "barely-functional killing machine" doesn't begin to do justice to the CoC. She could not only close an Oblivion gate by herself, she could do so very quickly -- the Bruma mission suggests she had become an expert on the gates.

She's also the only one who can turn sigil stones into useful equipment. My Oblivion character spent most of her career in the brown shirt / silk dress outfit (which I think the publican of the Wawnet Inn wears) and not a single point of light or heavy armor -- just armor effects from sigil stones.

 

The 'Barely-functional killing machine' was a reference to Pelinal, who tells you that you are him reborn. Pelinal was a divine organic robot from the future that existed for no purpose other than to kill elves. The point was, if you are him reborn, you are not much different. And really, 2 of the 3 big enemies you kill are Elves. (Camoran and that one guy from Knights of the Nine).

 

Anyway, I admit, it was something of an obscure reference, and not entirely accurate.

 

But...

 

Even if Ann Marie eventually gets a brain wipe Sheo at least lets her live out her normal lifespan before overwriting her personality. You don't do a Fallout-3-style fade-to-black when you complete Shiveing Isles.

 

The reason you don't do a fade to black is because theres nothing to fade to. By that point, you have been Sheogorath for some time (recreating the Mad Staff was the last step). There's no real end, as you (the CoC) are already gone, and the Mad God remains.

 

It's... really complicated and difficult to explain. Mantling is a strange thing that happens in many ways.