Valinar and Bolgeir Still have a brown face

[Mig35]

Hello,

 

In my MO2 setup all my face/head overhaul and related mods are placed in the lowest position possible. This means I have very little problems with the brown face bug (which is essentially not a bug but a load order problem ;) ) except for two NPC's so far. Only Valinor, the wood elf that stays in the bunkhouse in Riften and Bolgeir Bearclaw, Elisif's hot headed bodyguard. When I unclick Diversity in the left column of MO2, the plug-in load order, both have their vanilla faces back. As far as I am informed this means Diversity has trouble with one of two mods loaded afterwards. But after Diversity only face mods are loaded and some skin related mods. Those are only for female NPC's so they should not conflict with male faces i'd think. I have solved lots of brown face bugs and discovered some unexpected mod conflicts causing it but this time I have no clue whatsoever. A screenshot of MO2 is included.

 

Who can help?

 

 

[radiusrsatti]

I've seen many mention loading into CK and rebuilding the NPC, personally never tried this, so I'll skip that line of thought

load order is a good start, but isn't always the final solution

 

for all of my black faces, the method I have is this

- determine FormID of NPC with conflict

- check MO2 data tab with form ID, see which mod has LAST overwrite in FaceGeom (mesh) AND FaceTint (texture) directories, and make it so that whatever mod you want to use for that face is the active overwrite

- load SSEDit, locate FormID and see which mod is last overwrite for records, forward necessary HeadParts that match the .nif parts to last overwrite record

- cross reference HeadParts section with .nif mesh section IDs, then verify texture paths if needed

 

I use several mods that add thousands of NPCs, multiple custom body and face retextures, and have had few issues with this method, but it can be a handful

 

-- edit, I don't use the mod you mentioned, but if the facegeom and facetints are inside a BSA, you'll have to extract them

Edited May 15, 2022 by radiusrsatti

[Algabar]

I don't use MO 2, so I'm not exactly sure, what your screenshot means.

 

Basically, you're right: Brown faces are often about load order between NPC replacers.

 

Another thing to consider is facegen data: head meshes and facetint. If you're using multiple NPC replacers (like I do myself), not only plugin load order is important, but also overwrite order regarding facegen data.

For example, if you want to use Mod X as your main NPC replacer, you should not only load the plugin from Mod X after all other NPC replacers, but also make sure nothing overwrites headmeshes and facetint textures from Mod X. Maybe that's something to check.

 

Other possible culprits are weapon or armor mods, that distribute their stuff to NPCs. "Immersive weapons" is almost notorious for causing black face issues, if it isn't loaded before any NPC replacers. Same goes for some other mods. A simple armor mod once nearly drove me mad. I had an unexplicable black face on Irileth. I tried and tried, but nothing seemed to help - until I finally found out, that the "netch leather" armor mod gave her a new outfit...

 

So, what can you do:

1. You should check your plugins in XEdit. Load everything into XEdit, go to the NPC replacer you want to "win" and check, if anything overwrites its data.

 

2. If everything in XEdit looks okay, focus on file overwrites. It's easy to overlook something...

 

EDIT: Too late... :mad:

[Mig35]

Good evening good people,

 

@Radiusrsatti and @Algabar

I'll try to make a reply to answer both of your suggestions. Thank you for thinking with me so far.

 

If I understand it correctly: You both are suggesting to tweak around with the formID and facegen files etc. I gave that a thought indeed already. That being said: I know it is possible but I do not know exactly how. Your explanations might help if I choose to try this option.

 

My screenshot is the MO2 interface. MO2 puts all your mods like some sort of "virtual machine," over your Skyrim installation. It leaves the Skyrim data folder untouched which means you can install en remove mods without leaving any traces that might disrupt/mess up your game. In this screenshot you can see what plugins are loaded after Diversity in the column on the right.

Because mods are installed virtually over you skyrim installation, you can also easily change the load and overwrite order by simply drag and drop. Very quick explanation. A more experienced expert might explain it a bit more thourough. The column on the left is about write/overwrite but I am still having a bit of trouble understanding the difference between the two columns. I also read somewhere on Reddit that it is best to have the order of mods in both columns the same. If so: I might want to try that as well. Perhaps Radiusrsatti can tell us more?

 

However, I have had a brown face conflict similar to what Algabar tells here as well. Ria from the companions had a brown face and the culprit was the skyforge weapons mod. Her Bijin face had to overwrite the Skyforge weapon mod and then the problem was solved.

 

Update: I unchecked Diversity again and wandered around. Bolgeir Bearclaw had it's normal face again but lots of other npc's usually modded by Diversity got a brown face now..... e.g Captain Aldis.

 

For now I try to figure out the conflicts for a while and if I cannot find anything, I am going to study your explanations.

 

Perhaps Anjenthedog knows something as well. I see here he was reading this topic too and he has some knowledge I can tell :)

[Mig35]

Update: both Valinar and Bolgeir are wearing an apachi skyhair haircut above their bronw face. I have the Diversity version for Apachii skyhair installed.

But ApachiiSkyhair is an .esm file so I cannot do much concerning loadorder and all. That is: on the right side in the plugin-order.

Could this mod be part of the conflict?

 

And another update: I overlooked something on the Diversity nexus page. There is a file available called: "Valindor missing facegen data." (hehehe, :smile: ) That still does not explain Bolgeir bearclaw's brown face however.

 

And another one :) : Check the fifth post here https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/33901?tab=posts

It seems there was a facegen problem with Bolgeir conflicting with Ai Overhaul /cutting roomfloor patch. Me thinks I have to remove some facegens if this patch will not be updated.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Mig35

[radiusrsatti]

Brief expo-
Left side of MO2 is for File overwrites, right side is Load Order only... both sides are exclusive, keeping similar order, imo, is counterproductive UNLESS you manage the file overwrites specifically when arranged on the left side... I organize mine a certain way, keeping the majority of mods with overwrite specific data at the top for easier sorting/management, then sorting all other mods by type

okay, now to give a detailed rundown of what I mean, by screenshots, using my load order (I do not have Diversity, so I will use Karliah)
I have 1300+ mods, prepare for copy/paste for brevity sake

 

https://imgur.com/a/MiaIrXn

Edited May 16, 2022 by radiusrsatti

[Mig35]

Thank you for the screenshots, that is stuff for studying. Do not get it just yet but later on I will be.

 

About the left side and right side of MO2: So the order in the left side determines which mod writes over which. Does that mean e.g. that the: Diversity AI overhaul and cutting room floor patch has to overwrite Diversity in order to make that patch work?

 

I discovered that Bolgeir has his normal face again when I put that patch above Diversity in the right side. The plugin load order colum.

But: does the patch itself still work then?

 

I think these two questions make me understand the difference between the left and right side better.

[radiusrsatti]

changing the load order is only step 1, generally should not be done mid-playthrough, and does not fix all issues... there may be at least one mod making additional changes to records in any large mod setup, and it may not even be an expected mod

 

left side covers file overwrites, right side is a general idea of the order of Record overwrites, which you may have to view and fix manually inside SSEEdit... screenshot 2 gives a graphical description of my meaning

Edited May 17, 2022 by radiusrsatti

[Mig35]

The issue is solved! Thank you @Algabar and @Radiusrsatti for your cooperation.

@Radiusrsatti thank you for the screenshots.

 

For the sake of education. Here is what I did:

 

You both directed me to Seedit. I opened the Diversity AI overhaul CRF patch. That was the mod that caused the brown face.

Then I opened the NPC files and seeked out Bolgeir. Seeked out the PNAM headparts and there I saw the problem. Diversity uses HairMaleNord02 for this NPC, (obiviously not all the NPC got an apachii skyhair haircut in this version for skyhair.) In the patch however, in that row that file was not there. Instead another custom hairfile was to be found a few lines lower. That one caused the brown face. Because that file could not be found?

I removed that file and copied HairMaleNord02 in the empty space.

 

Anyway: Bolgeir Bearclaw was marked green in Seedit, which means it was not conflicting with anything. Does that fit the statement that a brown face is technically not a conflict?

 

 

 

[radiusrsatti]

from your explanation, the brownface was caused by a record conflict... CRF patch contained a headpart that was not included in the .nif... which you corrected, so no more conflict

 

I learned this trying to fix Dagny from a child overhaul mod, without the benefit of asking for help... took me forever, like 6 weeks of manual trial and error, drove me nuts, til I figured out what I was looking for, lining out the method I detailed... got it fixed, though