Crash and Errors Only in Wasteland

[Purr4me]

yes, a lot of people forget simple things like quest scripts, constantly running. the more game data you have enabled, the more the data base, "your saved game " grows and is dependent on them up to a curtain point. once the mods them selves have been completed Entirely, you are safe to remove them.

 

But. in diagnostic sessions, you must learn the differences between testing things out and actually fixing the game structure. These are definitely two different worlds. There is a Humongous Grey area I ever did see.

 

how we do it is simple really. on the desk top, make a saved game folder, use your name ok. and give it a similar usage name. Move all (your) saved game data to that folder. not copy. moved. install one of the other ones or one yo once saved else where that has no mods in them.

 

now. the data we spoke of...isolating the errors / conflicted merged patched data "Mods" ,are Identified now.

 

run fomm and untick just those. close fomm. run fo3edit and allow it to load all the data---less the mods just unticked.

 

on the desktop make a 2nd folder to store data / esp's and esm idf any to that folder. why run fo3edit? because as long as it has control over these mods, any data not ticked/loaded will get moved out of the data folder , leaving you with a clean slate to work with.

 

once moved out, you can be sure that those influencing mods can't interfere with the session of testing. your after the game running with out said mods enabled on the very saved game you had problems with.

 

this method is 99% fool proof. the 1% chance it does not work is slim. the games engine on load will say you have removed data. If the game does in fact load up, you can now clean that save if it will allow you to hard save it there.\

 

backups of the saved game BEFORE testing is important because if you discover which mod / mods were at fault, you can continue with all those hours spent already with out the bugs hitching rides.

[charwo]

OK, let me if I understand this. I take a save game from nexus, cause it's clean, then take my last save game and Cut the info out of it and paste it into the new save game?

 

As for the mods, which mods have you isolated as causing the trouble? I think its just the Arefu Expanded and the Librarian, if I understood the email. I I simply unistall Areu Expanded and the Librarian and then reinstall them fresh and baby new? Or do I pick one because Arefu Expanded really doesn't play nice with the Librarian?

[Purr4me]

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OK, let me if I understand this. I take a save game from nexus, cause it's clean, then take my last save game and Cut the info out of it and paste it into the new save game?

Negative.

E-mail data is an example provided by the read out sent, that is an isolation of that mods problems. It is only one of them to remove for testing.

 

Nope, you missed it. open your "Documents\My Games\Fallout3\Saves....folder, select all of these files in here only ,Drag them into a fresh folder of your making on the desktop so you do not damage them.

 

Now, you download a file / saved game of your choice, hopefully one as I selected or one that has most of the game completed. and another one that is a fresh start at vault 101........OF these contain data slated for DLC use.

 

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in Diagnostic sessions, the merged files is all data that is found BY fo3edit. That file is a tool. a tool only, not a fix. Just a tool to identify what is in conflict with the data stream. You DO NOT run it in game. You de-select all mods with fo3edit at starting up it's scan of your data files, esm's and esp's.

you select ONLY the merged file you made. it now loads only the data required By it and what was found to be in conflict.

 

on the desk top, you make yet "another folder", this is where you will be moving out data not to be loaded. Namely the data sitting in fo3edit at the moment if you follow this directions to the letter.

 

All the data, esp's and esm's not selected are not seen by fo3edit and can be safely moved out .....to a safe folder you just made ...on the desktop.....moving files in windows 7 8 or any system while held in captivity by anotehr editing program while stop you and ask? do you want to move "said files? the ones held up in fo3edit. ...but not quite that way, just an example. you select skip all how many there are.

 

when you done "moving files" the only files left in the folder / Plugins ar ethe conflicted files found by the sweep. Now, you make yet 1 more folder for these, move these out to that folder and replace the files previously moved out for their protection back into the data folder.

 

the data ,scanned By fo3edit is no longer in the data folder and the saved games you wish to prevent damaging are safe and out of harms way.

 

what you have left is only all this hundreds of mods less the bad ones found, + the E-mail instructions sent out of your hair.

 

you have only known good mos in there, and no saved game corruption available to hamper your testing of "whats left".

 

But, you need 2 sources of information to test this gallant mass of ram chewing mods , a fully completed saved game with no mods , just the DLC's so the scripts DO not fire from them, and only the scripts firing from the mods that remain will be firing. They fire because they have NOT been ran yet with the downloaded saved game ,in doing so, you pay attention to details. they have a saying, it's all the devil in the details. hence FWE, Alt start ,IT is a well know fault maker. a ton of mods will upset a default game at load up time.

 

 

to be clear here. a diagnostic session to determine which if any remains mods you currently have installed are the cause of the CTDs, this is the only approach possible. NOTE: diagnostic session and no mods have been uninstalled, all registry data is untouched, all info for them provided by the fomm program is untouched ,no software other than the engine will know what is going on ,just you and the Engines properties know whats happening.

 

The tool. learn this, it's easy. the merge file is a tool , a set of instructions data mined by the program , it says it finds out of place.

 

if that program ever produces and empty esp? then any problems left are in textures or mesh instructions.

running the winner as such in the tools with your games mods is not what the fo3edit was intended for to begin with. the merged patch << GOD I hate the word "patch" is not a patch to play the game. it's a result of conflicts found By the tool only and simply shows the winner placed in order .

 

The bottom line here is, it's a tool only. we need you to read the data , move it out, so when you redue, re-run the merged file process as a method to double check , no more mods are found to be in conflict, we can proceed with the remaining mods, and find out what world space items, textures, navmesh issues are there that can cause the bugs you have.

 

we are not concerned about what plays nice with what, that's farther down the road and way in advance for consideration.

you need to keep a clear mind and view of what we do to find the bugs. Isolate them, determine why they are there and repair, fix, destroy, remove, what ever it takes to Eliminate them from the data flow. .........So when you play fallout3 , with over 200 + mods, you don't crash the game. 99% of the data I just seen in that line up is totally loaded with factors I know of personally already handled by a very nice cool mod. but you don't have it yet, and it would do no good to give you somethings that won't work with whats sitting there right now.

 

I can give ya a hint. read my signature. what do and who do I represent? these men....have already been in your shoes, have completed the tasks and have moved on. I am left here to assist whom ever and when ever I can. IF I can. That is my goal, and its' my only interest here. Find and Eradicate all bugs if possible and be as civil as can be, bugs DO Bite back. LOL.

 

kitty.

[charwo]

Wait wait. I understand the fresh savegame for diagnosis purposes but I'm not getting that middle part.

 

I already ran the merged patch diagnostic. I sent it to you. FOMM will not let be deselect Anchorage if I deselect FO3.ESM. But I sent that data. From what I understood from the email, the conflicts are between Arefu Expanded and the Librarian. If I misunderstood that, please clarify.

 

As for the rest, let me see if I understand what you're saying.

 

1. I put the merged patch through FO3Edit

 

2. The esp/esm files with the bugs are errors will somehow be held via the FO3edit, while the ones without will not. Note: if there is more to this than just loading the merged patch alone, I need those instructions.

 

3. This means I can piecemeal take all the esp/esm files out of Fallout3/data to a safe location until the buggy mods are left, as the computer will not let me move them because they are being used by the editor

 

4. Then I activate those buggy mods and the six Bethesda core files with the clean save and then can be tested.

 

Do you want me to isolate those bugggy mods and report back?

[Purr4me]

what we want is to isolate the buggy mods. and remove non buggy mods from any possible editing misshaps, to do that, we need to load only what the merged patch found.

 

as you look in the picture, what you see there is an Entire set of plug ins. if you leave fo3edit up and running while those are held in suspension. you can minimise fo3edit keeping those held hostage. open the explorer to where the data folder is. select all files of esm and esp and drag them to the storag folder on the desk top for SAFE keeping.

 

whats left over is what being held by fo3edit. yes, even the core files as they will not be allowedto be moved By fo3edit.

 

now once done. you close down fo3edit, go to the data folder and only move the add on esm and esp's from the mods you installed that were caught in the fo3edit sweep. (sweep) my choice of words and what I call it as this is housecleaning.

 

you do NOT touch the core files, just the bugged out mods found in the merged process.

\

 

 

once that is done, you should have ONLY left the bethesda core files, a normal game set, Default vanilla set of files.

 

you do NOT deactivate any mods with any tools..I repeat, don't fomm uninstall a thing. leave fomm alone. this is all piece meal by had moving of files. we do not want any other data touched.

 

go back to the SAFE holding folder where you moved out the good plugins too and put them back into the data folder.

 

now, you re-run the sorter program, fomm, to resort the mods, only do not have them checked. Boss, built in will now rearrange them.

 

un checked . once they have been resorted, right click the mods windows in fomm on the left side and select all/ enable all.

close fomm. re-run fo3edit, allow it to load all. repeat the merged patch process and see if it now finds any more insults to data flow. you should end up with a blank, empty esp. it's ok to save it. why.......... because you can re-run fo3edit again and only select that esp.

 

if there are no conflicts left, only that esp will be laded and no core files or any other mods will get loaded. the blank esp is a tool for you to see if a bug or mods conflicting still exists. other than that purpose, the lank esp serves no purpose and can be deleted.

 

at this stage yor ready to test the game with the downloaded saved games. on game launch, if your running fose dependent mods, these will fire first regardless of load order, out of sync.

 

many mod gurus know this and don't depend on fomm or boss after initial sorting, they will move the esp's and esm's by hand an not allow Boss to sort them DUE to the nature of order of the fose reliant made mods.

 

IF..this is too much...to take in? ...you can also isolate fose controlled mods, and further isolate them, but is time consuming.

fose runs scripts the game has no understanding of...with out our controls. it's a gremlin. A wolf in sheep's clothing, an un noticed phenomenon, Fose does things that defy logic. can interfear with an outcome because it runs things quietly in the back ground,

 

so you can do that too if need be, other wise, you shold have a cleaned up set of files. now, load the game withh all that remains ticked /enabled in fomm.

 

if the game even loads. you wait, move about some , go to maybe sprinvale, megaton, RC, Dave's ,Enclave base, Washington capital building, the museum. just start picking spots at random, fast travel, walk, and just test the places.

 

hence the reason we chose a completed saved game. the mod you have installed...are the only source of Uncompleted scripts, quest stages and such. World space navigation mesh and all sorts of additional things .

[charwo]

Wait, how does running FO3edit make it so that the good mods can be moved, but the buggy ones can't? I have to select them all, and presumably they are all in the thrall of FO3edit while that is happening.

[Purr4me]

any time any file or set of files are loaded into an editor? like fo3edit, they are held there ,if you load up say just a few mods, and then load up the garden of Creation kit ,GECK. and then try to save the esp you make while fo3edit has the same data held, the geck will crash, but before doing so...it flat tells you the data is being used by another program.

 

now unlike fo3edit TES5EDIT 3.0.31, the geck will not allow you to continue but the edit version 3.0.31 will allow you to continue.

for sight on the devs for a later designed method of edit has given way to other possibility not available to us before.

But there is a catch. You need to have the knowledge to use it correctly or things don't go so well. it's sort of off topic here.

 

Fomm? is another type of program, not an editor, but contains an editor.

all of these programs run in real time runtime of the system, yet another influence to take into account. cannot be ignored.

 

basicly, we trap what we seek using the tool fo3edit. once trapped, it's held in place so we can do other things , a workaround.

 

I started out one way in describing how to do this.. that did not work, so I switched the path around trying to make you understand.

it's not hard.

• Desktop saved games charow folder.
• Desktop Good files safe heaven folder
• Desktop Bugged up files found folder.

C:\users\(user name)\My documents\My games\fallout3\save.....folder.

C:\ program files\Bethesda\fallout3\ etc etc etc..... or where ever you have them stashed. "Data folder.

 

on the desk top. short cuts made to that data folder.

shortcuts to that saved game folder in the user account documents location.

every thing is monitored By the OS that lands on the desktop. so it's really important not to run any authorizing tools other than specified here during the sweep actions.

 

the operating system is responsible for preventing actions of moving the data being held by fo3edit.

I can\t post images of the actions as I have tried, My os does not allow that for some strange reason.

 

kitty.

[charwo]

OK, I get what you're saying. Except for the most important part: how on earth do I tell the good mods from the bad? How does FO3Edit tell me what is good and what is bad so I can start the mod deduction?

[Purr4me]

  On 10/28/2013 at 2:21 AM, charwo said:

OK, I get what you're saying. Except for the most important part: how on earth do I tell the good mods from the bad? How does FO3Edit tell me what is good and what is bad so I can start the mod deduction?

ok, we start over. load all files / mod you have installed, as you did before. Use the screen shot placed here to create a merged patch file / esp/ that esp will contain the data , most of the data we want to remove for this session.

 

open fomm after wards, untick all mods and core files. Tick the esp which should be sitting at the bottom of that pile. NOTE: you will lose what ever you run when you do this, as the plugin text document will go blank. you may need to copy that OR keep the exported txt file handy to import it back.

 

close fomm.

run fo3edit.

see if all files or just what were found in conflict are loaded, leave it open and running and return here and post.

[charwo]

I did that. I sent you the file last night. And you pointed out serious problems. It did not however do a thing to tell me which mods are failing.

 

Edit: by me, I mean me, you might have been able to see which mods, but that wasn't made clear to me which mods to isolate.

Edited October 28, 2013 by charwo