Discussing Mod Design Flow.

[Guest Messenjah]

Okay, so I would like to discuss mod/game design in general. I'm very focused right now on trying to establish

different methods for building a good framework for modding complex areas. One of the things that I feel is both one of

Bethesda's greatest strengths, yet also one of its greatest weaknesses, is the fact that every single object within their

game is interactive or has some sort of physics. While this makes for a more believable world, I also feel like it can also

mess up certain areas. If you look at Bioware games, I noticed that you can't knock over every single object or pick up

every single object, and that npc's don't have an in-game scheduale to follow. Yet, do I ever feel that something is amiss?

Not really. Is it static and lifeless? No more than any other game. I don't really spend my day following npc's around to

see what they do all day. However, these games always seem to have a lot more npc's standing around doing things and they

always have a lot more variety of special random events that occur. As a cherry on top, we don't have so many objects we

can knock over or pick up, so my pockets are overstuffed with useless junk and npc's aren't getting stuck in weird places

because their AI doesn't know how to handle certain things.


Looking at my own design, I plan to have dancers and singers on-stage. Rather than giving the dancers a daily

schedule, I'm thinking about just putting a couple of dancers on the mini-stages, some singers on the stage with a couple

of backup dancers, with a curtain draped behind them and I'll stick a collision plane in front of them to protect the

player. This way the player can not attack the entertainers or knock them off-stage. Also, if an npc needs a schedule, try

to only give them a couple of places to wander or just let them sandbox.


In GTA Online, I noticed that the strip club also serves very much as a safe-zone for the player. No guns are

permitted so it just puts them away. The same goes for certain areas in Mass Effect. You just can't go in guns blazing.

Rather than removing all weapons off from the player... why don't we just set up a trigger on the inside and outside that

disables the player controls for using weapons when they enter or leave?

 

In Bethesda games, I'm also seeing that things like dishes, forks, etc all have physics. However, it annoys me that

just walking around them can cause them to fall and if it is near say... a bar, it can cause a domino effect. Why not just

make these all statics so there is no need for a reset when you return to this place?

I personally think designs such as this are more efficient and effective, preventing a lot of unnecessary

bugs/glitches. What are your opinions on the subject? Please state your reasons.

[Ladez]

I checked off both options here, because I appreciate and see the need for both. Mass Effect and Fallout are two great series, and each have their own approach to these things as you point out, because they are fundamentally different games. And I love both of them for it.

 

In Mass Effect, I don't care about all the junk lying around, since I have a goal to accomplish. The reapers are coming to kill us all, so I don't have time to search every corner for scraps. When playing Mass Effect, I love that I can just focus on what's really important instead of spending tons of time doing inventory management. Mass Effect 1 is an exception since it is the only game in the series with actual inventory management. And boy did that inventory system suck.

 

Because Fallout is a more hardcore RPG, there's tons of ways for you to interact with the world. Even though the junk lying around isn't really useful, it can still be picked up and sold just for the hell of it. It makes the gameworld more immersive since you aren't as focused on a grand goal in these types of games, and therefore have more time to investigate your surroundings. At least I know I don't focus so much on the main quest in Bethesda games, and I know lots of other people who don't. Just as I love the approach Mass Effect takes, in Fallout I love that I am able to interact with the world to that great extend. On the other hand, your points about bugs and glitches and physics issues, where things go flying as soon as you touch them, are perfectly valid. The physics system in Fallout is especially bad because of this, which is a shame.

 

Since the vanilla game already has an established way of doing this, with the player being able to pick up most items, I feel that the best course of action is to do the same when making mods, in order to make them fit into the game seamlessly. But that doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Take Operation Anchorage in Fallout 3 for example. Since that addon is more action oriented than the rest of the game, coupled with the fact that it's all a simulation, you're not able to pick up or interact with most things. Some may like it for it, some may hate it for it, but it did it for a valid reason.

 

Both appreoaches has their pros and cons, and as for what you should choose, it comes down to what you want to accomplish with your mod. Work on what's important for you. If locking everything down tight helps you accomplish your goal, then go ahead and do it. Just know that doing so will steer you away from the established 'Fallout experience', and some players will probably be put off by it. Some feel that invisible walls and such are products of lazy game design. And sure, they can ruin your immersion, but in some games you just aren't meant to go off the path chosen for you. You have to decide for yourself what approach to use in your mod/game.