Edit creature textures

[AxlDave]

So I have a texture I want to apply to a creature, namely a robot. Problem is, I can't find where the creature data links with its textures, the closest I can find is a model list but that does not seem to allow texture changes like it does with armour / weapons.

 

How do I apply the new texture?

[pkleiss]

Textures are usually defined within the mesh (the .NIF) file. You'll need a tool like Nifskope to make changes to the record(s) called BSShaderTextureSet. Oh, and you'll need to unpack the meshes from the BSA files using a tool like FOMM's BSA unpacker or the like.

 

You can also use the GECKs texture set feature. In this method, you make a new texture set object, apply your dds files to the proper categories like difuse, normal, glow, etc... Then you locate the object you want to add the textures to, open it, open the model info and apply the texture set. This works for armor, weapons and other misc objects, but not for creatures like robots. You are going to have to modify the robot NIFs.

[AxlDave]

Okay, so I found where to link textures, problem is it won't let me select a specific file or folder, and it only seems happy with Fallout3/Data as the resource folder. I can work with this for the most part, but this has the annoying side effect of making Mr Gutsy and Mr Handy have the same texture...

 

Is there any way I can just choose one texture file for each model?

 

--EDIT--

 

I have read in a lot of tutorials that you have to click the flower next to the texture path. In Nifskope, the BSSHaderTextureSet entry has neither of these.

 

--EDIT--

 

Okay, found the textures in the Block Details bit. There are 6 entries, I believe the first three are for basic, _n, and _g respectively. What are the other three for?

 

Also, I saved the model with textures applied, tried to reload and Nifskope crashes at 7%. It does this whether I overwrite the old model or save a new one. So much trouble to make a lousy robot purple...

Edited October 16, 2013 by AxlDave

[pkleiss]

"So much trouble to make a lousy robot purple..."

 

I feel you dog. The learning curve is very high with a lot of this stuff.

 

this has the annoying side effect of making Mr Gutsy and Mr Handy have the same texture...

 

Is there any way I can just choose one texture file for each model?

 

You'll need to create your own custom version of the robot in the GECK (just make a copy of an existing one). Then you can apply your mesh to that specific creature object and leave the vanilla robots alone.

 

What are the other three for?

 

 

I honestly can't remember exactly, but in most cases you won't need but two: diffuse (basic) and normal, the glow is nice for lighting effects (when needed), the others are environment, environment mask and height(also called bump). IIRC the environment(s) are used for other lighting and the bump is to add a sort of texture/relief to the mesh.

 

As for the crashing, it may be due to nifskope setup. Before using Nifskope, you have to tell it where your default folders are and where the BAS files are. If that's not it (and it sounds like its not) then I would venture to guess that you've saved your dds files with the wrong compression settings. It's been so long since I've used GIMP, I'm not sure which settings are correct. Which did you use? Try DTX5 or DXT1 and create mip maps.

Edited October 17, 2013 by pkleiss

[AxlDave]

 

You'll need to create your own custom version of the robot in the GECK (just make a copy of an existing one). Then you can apply your mesh to that specific creature object and leave the vanilla robots alone.

 

I am editing the RobCo and Buildable Bots robots, so fortunately this has already been done for me :smile:

 

 

As for the crashing, it may be due to nifskope setup. Before using Nifskope, you have to tell it where your default folders are and where the BAS files are.

 

I have told Nifskope 3 things:

 

1) Under Render --> Settings, I have told it to look in my game root, D:\Games\Fallout\Fallout 3\Data

 

2) To use Fallout - Meshes.bsa and Fallout - Textures.bsa as Resource Files

 

3) When selecting a specific texture, to find it in Textures\Creatures\(specific robot)\(specific file).dds

 

 

If that's not it (and it sounds like its not) then I would venture to guess that you've saved your dds files with the wrong compression settings. It's been so long since I've used GIMP, I'm not sure which settings are correct. Which did you use? Try DTX5 or DXT1 and create mip maps.

 

I wasn't actually aware that GIMP could export .dds formats. Here's how I've been doing it:

 

- Unpack textures with FOMM

- Open .dds texture with DXTBmp

- Save As 24 bit .bmp

- Open with GIMP, do editing.

- Save (export) as .bmp

- Open .bmp with DXTBmp

- Save As .dds texture.

 

As such, I am not sure what encoding is being done along the way, all I know is that this method works fine for all armour retexturing I have done.

 

As I said, I have read in a lot of tutorials that there should be a purple flower next to the texture path, but I have neither the flower nor the path. I have a feeling that this is indicative of what the actual problem is, though I have no idea how to investigate that further.

 

Up until now I have done almost no modelling, but I seem to recall my other attempt at editing a model didn't work out, though that could be my own fault.

 

 

 

 

This is Nifskope upon loading the RobCo model

 

[AxlDave]

 

 

This is Nifskope after adding some textures

[pkleiss]

I have to leave for the day, but I wanted to leave you with this...

 

I have made a retex of a creature (ghoul), and when I get back I'll look at it and see what I did wrt textures and paths. And, yes, you can export directly from GIMP to dds and when you do a pop up asks which compression to use and there is a check box to create mipmaps. Again, it's been a while, but I think there is a dds plugin for GIMP. Install that and your texturing life will be far easier. Of course, I haven't updated my version of GIMP for over 3 years. You may have issue if your version of GIMP is 64 bit.

Edited October 17, 2013 by pkleiss

[prensa]

AxlDave - Hello!

"Okay, found the textures in the Block Details bit. There are 6 entries, I believe the first three are for basic, _n, and _g respectively. What are the other three for?"

That's correct, Diffuse, Normal map & then Glow map.

It's then Height/Parallax, Enviroment then Enviroment Mask.

Never used Height/Parallax myself or seen it used.

The Enviroment & Enviroment Mask are used for surface effects like chrome or glass with the mask used to block certain areas from using said effect.

If you hover over the word "Textures" in the BSShaderTextureSet block in Nifskope you will see a list of what each slot is for.

That's a handy trick actually, hovering over various headings in Nifskope can often bring up useful information.

"but I have neither the flower nor the path."

That is odd, not seen that before.

Have you told Nifskope to Auto Detect the game paths? This needs to be done once when you first set up Nifskope.

In Render - Settings under the "Rendering" tab click on the "Auto Detect Game Path".

That second to last Nifskope screenshot has the diffuse texture path in meshes!

Meshes\Creatures\Sentrybot\robcotex.dds

Textures must be within the Textures folder.

I see in the last screenshot you've got correct texture paths.

"Save As .dds texture."

For most normal use the end .dds should be either DXT1, DXT3 or DXT5 depending on whether the texture needs an alpha channel for transparency or you're wanting specular maps for the normal maps to add shine to the surface.

Formats like A8R8G8B8 should be avoided normally as they don't always work as expected with specular maps & transparency but most importantly they're huge & hog resouces in game.

Hope this helps!

Prensa

Edited October 17, 2013 by prensa

[AxlDave]

 

Again, it's been a while, but I think there is a dds plugin for GIMP. Install that and your texturing life will be far easier. Of course, I haven't updated my version of GIMP for over 3 years. You may have issue if your version of GIMP is 64 bit.

 

I have Windows 7 64bit so if there is a difference between GIMP 32bit and GIMP 64bit then I will undoubtedly have the 64bit version. What sort of issues are we talking about?

 

 

AxlDave - Hello!

 

"Okay, found the textures in the Block Details bit. There are 6 entries, I believe the first three are for basic, _n, and _g respectively. What are the other three for?"

 

That's correct, Diffuse, Normal map & then Glow map.

 

It's then Height/Parallax, Enviroment then Enviroment Mask.

 

Thanks for that, so if a texture has a suffix of _em, I assume that is Slot 6 - Environment Mask?

 

 

"but I have neither the flower nor the path."

 

That is odd, not seen that before.

 

Apparently no-one else has as googling it shows there are no topics or solutions about it.

 

 

Have you told Nifskope to Auto Detect the game paths? This needs to be done once when you first set up Nifskope.

 

In Render - Settings under the "Rendering" tab click on the "Auto Detect Game Path".

 

Instead of the auto detect, which brings up my Oblivion data folder as well as some others that I am not sure where they are located, I have manually specified that Nifskope looks for my textures in D:\Games\Fallout\Fallout 3\Data. I know this works because when I edit individual textures they show up, as in the second image I posted.

 

 

That second to last Nifskope screenshot has the diffuse texture path in meshes!

 

Meshes\Creatures\Sentrybot\robcotex.dds

 

Textures must be within the Textures folder.

 

I see in the last screenshot you've got correct texture paths.

 

I know, that's how it is set up in the mod I am editing. All my custom textures are in the Data\Textures\Creatures directory, as in the second image.

 

 

Upon further testing, I have found that if I open any .nif model, do absolutely nothing to it except immediately save, it still will not reopen. This happens whether I save over the original filename or create my own filename.

 

Could it be that Nifskope has just installed badly?

 

Also I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was a good idea to have a clone Data folder to store textures and meshes in, however nowhere else mentioned this and one other site actually specified that the textures and meshes be in the proper Data folder. Major confusion...

[AxlDave]

Reading through this thread, it occurs to me that perhaps I have not been very clear with regard to what problems I am having etc. Allow me to clarify.

 

The original problem I posted about - unable to apply textures - has been mostly resolved. It turns out I only had the Block List window open, and upon opening Block Details I was able to select BSShadersTexture and apply new texture files.

 

However, the problem that persisted was that of having no purple flower or texture path in the Block List window, as you can see on both screenshots. I was under the impression that having these was fairly necessary, though I don't know why.

 

The major problem that I am having is that regardless of what textures I apply, I cannot save them properly. What happens is, I open the model as in screenshot 1, then I apply my textures as in screenshot 2. Then I save. Then I close Nifskope. Then I reopen the .nif I have just saved, but Nifskope gets to 7% and freezes, then crashes. I'm guessing the save is getting corrupted.

 

I have tried:

- Opening RobCo .nif, editing, saving over RobCo .nif

- Opening RobCo .nif, editing, saving as new AXL .nif

- Opening RobCo .nif, doing nothing, saving over RobCo .nif

- Opening RobCo .nif, doing nothing, saving as new AXL .nif

- Opening vanilla .nif, doing nothing, saving as new AXL .nif

- Sanitizing & Optimizing several of these saves.

 

And yet still no luck. I'm hoping it's just a faulty install of Nifskope as that would be an easy fix, but I fear that it is something more sinister that may require the dreaded full-wipe game reinstall...

 

Hopefully that has cleared it up some.