greekrage Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 The title says it all... The location ofc has many texture swaps and placed objects but im seeing drops from 75frames (where im capped) even down to 25...I managed to up the frames a bit by removing all lighting effects like beams etc..but still at 35fps i find it unacceptable . What i noticed is that one of the cells has the box "hand changed" in the previs settings... Does this matter? Does it effect performance or possibly cause issues with new generated data ? If i change that setting would i have to regenerate the data again ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) First of all, what kind of cell are we talking about? An interior or exterior cell? How dense is the cell in terms of details, lights and how complex is the geometry? Secondly, you should always check your interior cells with "twf" to toggle the wire frame on and off to see if the precombines are actually working as intended. The problem with that is that the precomb/previs system works in myserious ways at times and there are some rules: 1.) Certain objects are part of the precombines but are considered "see-through" by the previs system(e.g. windows, doors or walls with holes in them - in general everything that has an opening. In addition to that there are also a lot of other objects which might block your line of sight but are again actually treated as "see-through"). Therefore, everything behind them is being loaded "normally", although the precomb/previs system is working as intended, it's just that most people are unaware of these rules. This can obviously be a problem in very dense areas with certain lights which are performance heavy. 2.) If an area is too densely populated, especially with crazy shadow casting lights, the performance might take a big hit. It doesn't matter if you break up the lines of sight with things that are treated as "non see-through" by the previs system. If the area is too small and dense it's gonna tank the performance. All you can do in this case is either stretch out the level to get more space or remove/adjust certain lights. As a rule of thumb: Always check your work with twf. Plan your levels ahead and make sure that extremely complex areas are separated by something like a hallway(I had to find this out the hard way with my player home). Secondly, don't use a gazillion shadow casting lights with god rays - try to use them where needed and do the rest with NS lights. If you're doing exterior levels, which are way harder to optimize at times(see downtown Boston), decent planning and blocking lines of sight is a must and also making sure that everything works as intended(toggle the wire frame and don't mistake the meshes of the LOD for close meshes, the LOD is mostly always loaded afaik.) Thirdly, try to identify objects/things that might cause FPS drops, for instance a badly implemented asset, something that is too complex etc. . Regarding the "hand changed" setting: I've no clue what that does. But toggling the wire frame on and off should give you an idea if the precomb/previs system is working or not. Edited July 5, 2022 by 84Cronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekrage Posted July 5, 2022 Author Share Posted July 5, 2022 First of all, what kind of cell are we talking about? An interior or exterior cell? How dense is the cell in terms of details, lights and how complex is the geometry? Secondly, you should always check your interior cells with "twf" to toggle the wire frame on and off to see if the precombines are actually working as intended. The problem with that is that the precomb/previs system works in myserious ways at times and there are some rules: 1.) Certain objects are part of the precombines but are considered "see-through" by the previs system(e.g. windows, doors or walls with holes in them - in general everything that has an opening. In addition to that there are also a lot of other objects which might block your line of sight but are again actually treated as "see-through"). Therefore, everything behind them is being loaded "normally", although the precomb/previs system is working as intended, it's just that most people are unaware of these rules. This can obviously be a problem in very dense areas with certain lights which are performance heavy. 2.) If an area is too densely populated, especially with crazy shadow casting lights, the performance might take a big hit. It doesn't matter if you break up the lines of sight with things that are treated as "non see-through" by the previs system. If the area is too small and dense it's gonna tank the performance. All you can do in this case is either stretch out the level to get more space or remove/adjust certain lights. As a rule of thumb: Always check your work with twf. Plan your levels ahead and make sure that extremely complex areas are separated by something like a hallway(I had to find this out the hard way with my player home). Secondly, don't use a gazillion shadow casting lights with god rays - try to use them where needed and do the rest with NS lights. If you're doing exterior levels, which are way harder to optimize at times(see downtown Boston), decent planning and blocking lines of sight is a must and also making sure that everything works as intended(toggle the wire frame and don't mistake the meshes of the LOD for close meshes, the LOD is mostly always loaded afaik.) Thirdly, try to identify objects/things that might cause FPS drops, for instance a badly implemented asset, something that is too complex etc. . Regarding the "hand changed" setting: I've no clue what that does. But toggling the wire frame on and off should give you an idea if the precomb/previs system is working or not.no this is all a external location..Yes its a bit heavy as a cell (2 cells over from hangmans at the edge of the chestnut lake ) it was populated with many beam light effects that were removed and got a small boost but the location in general (about 6 cells) has a lot of objects and texture swaps etc... Imagine that to generate precombined geometry for current cell takes about 20-30 secs as apposed to almost instant in a not so dense cell..Maybe im asking too much from my GTx970....I havent done a location this heavily modded before with a ton of 3rd party assets... Up to now ive been using vanilla assets ONLY.. Btw heres the location... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 If that's the case then I would first of make sure that the precombines and previs are working correctly. After that I would check if you can somehow optimize the texture swaps(reducing the overall count by reusing similar ones and having them on a texture atlas) and see if there are certain custom objects/texture swaps that somehow have a very negative impact on performance. By the way, it's quite funny that you chose this location. The entrance to the first interior for my quest mod that I'm working on right now is in this cell as well, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekrage Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 If that's the case then I would first of make sure that the precombines and previs are working correctly. After that I would check if you can somehow optimize the texture swaps(reducing the overall count by reusing similar ones and having them on a texture atlas) and see if there are certain custom objects/texture swaps that somehow have a very negative impact on performance. By the way, it's quite funny that you chose this location. The entrance to the first interior for my quest mod that I'm working on right now is in this cell as well, lol.Not easy to cut down on textures because they are all variations on furniture,walls,rugs,curtains,a truckload of consumables etc.... Those buildings are 2-3 floors tall and all have furnished apartments that i wanted to make unique and not copies of each other.. Hence all the variations... I dont think im gonna get away with a file thats smaller than 500Mb which makes it about 450megs of external 3rd party assets used... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 (edited) I kind of doubt that it's the textures anyway. It looks more as if the area is just very dense and most of the buildings you did are loaded at all times because they've so many glass windows. These windows won't help mich with the previs system. Edited July 7, 2022 by 84Cronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekrage Posted July 6, 2022 Author Share Posted July 6, 2022 (edited) I kind of doubt that it's the textures anyway. It looks more as if the area is just very dense and most of the buildings you did is loaded at all times because they've so many glass windows. These windows won't help mich with the previs system.Yeah i noticed windows in general are an issue especially when glass is paired with a window/wall . I may try to backup the esp and remove all glass as a try first...and see if i can swap those big windows with something with a not so big of a gap/hole... Wont hurt to try in the name of better performance...edit: yes i know i have regenerate the precomb/previs each time... Hell im used to it by now since ive done it over 30 times so far to test and fix issues with textures... Edited July 6, 2022 by greekrage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) Just switching the windows for windows with smaller holes/glass probably won't help, since they're still ignored by the previs system afaik. The only thing that would help imho are windows that you can not see through. So if you really really want better performance, your best shot is to strategically make it so that certain fronts of buildings only have "normal" windows that you can not see through to block long lines of sight and then use see-through windows where it's possible in terms of performance. Just backup your old .esp and play around with certain setups and see what happens. Edited July 7, 2022 by 84Cronos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekrage Posted July 7, 2022 Author Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just switching the windows for windows with smaller holes/windows probably won't help, since they're still ignored by the previs system afaik. The only thing that would help imho are windows that you can not see through. So if you really really want better performance, your best shot is to strategically make it so that certain fronts of buildings only have "normal" windows that you can not see through to block long lines of sight and then use see-through windows where it's possible in terms of performance.Yeah i figured that much after thinking about it a bit... But that would make it un-immersive since we are talking about stores,diner,bar etc... that you would want to be able to see from the outside..Hell im going to go with it as it is... Im simply adding stuff like curtains etc.. to limit the visibility as much as possible... Im also gonna try one sided windows on a few apartments to see if it helps on some buildings with an open view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84Cronos Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just switching the windows for windows with smaller holes/windows probably won't help, since they're still ignored by the previs system afaik. The only thing that would help imho are windows that you can not see through. So if you really really want better performance, your best shot is to strategically make it so that certain fronts of buildings only have "normal" windows that you can not see through to block long lines of sight and then use see-through windows where it's possible in terms of performance.Yeah i figured that much after thinking about it a bit... But that would make it un-immersive since we are talking about stores,diner,bar etc... that you would want to be able to see from the outside..Hell im going to go with it as it is... Im simply adding stuff like curtains etc.. to limit the visibility as much as possible... Im also gonna try one sided windows on a few apartments to see if it helps on some buildings with an open view Curtains unfortunately won't help you, lol. At least if we're talking about the normal ones take you attach the the corners of windows. The problem in the first place is, that the area you're building in is already pretty complex on it's own, so any big additions would normally require careful planning with some knowledge of the precomb/previs system. Everything is a compromise in the end, since certain things are just impossible in this engine. But I mean hey, that is what mods are for: you're learning so that you can improve and do it better next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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