Navmesh / pathfinding problems

[thefourwings]

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I've got two main problems, both of which seem to be navmesh issues, but I could be wrong.

 

1.) Is there some way of 'helping' NPCs navigate from point A to B, apart from using a bunch of patrol markers? I've got an NPC with a scheduled sandbox package and he's supposed to go from the waiting room to the clinic entrance, go outside and stand around for a few hours. Instead, when the scheduled time comes up, he walks into the bathroom and just stands there. If he could walk through walls and ignore the level's geometry, this might make sense, since the shortest route would be a straight line from the bathrooms to the clinic entrance. Granted it's a somewhat complicated path (waiting room>hall>lobby>entrance>cave>door) but I thought the whole idea of the navmesh was that they'd be able to figure this out(?) I don't get any navmesh errors, and the mesh itself looks good (compared against bethesda's other cells).

 

2.) Some of my npc will randomly disappear and reappear somewhere else in the cell, usually in a separate navmesh that is an animal pen (made it a separate navmesh because when it was connected to the rest of the level the animals would just walk through the fences). No idea why they're doing this...

 

3.) Lastly (and not likely a navmesh issue) I've got an NPC in a cell who keeps opening the door and walking out. The door is locked and he hasn't got a key. I want him to be able to open doors in general, just not this one. I'm sure I could write a script for the cell door that identifies whether it's him trying to open and doesn't activate if it's him, but there's got to be a simpler solution(?) Anyone know why he's able to unlock it even though it's a "require's key" door?

 

Thanks again for everyone's help on any of these issues. All the best,

FWoFA

[eleglas]

You have done the navmesh right haven't you? Not just put 2 triangles through the entire cell going through walls?

 

An actor is basically blind and a moron, they don't know where they are going, and if the bump into something, they won't try to correct the error, you have to do it for them.

 

Make sure you are using XMarkerHeadings (not normal xmarkers).

 

Does he/she have to go up/down stairs? If so, make sure your navmesh flies above the steps, overwise the actor will get stuck.

 

One more thing, it would be best to make the package a Travel not a sandbox.

 

Hope these tips help, if not then I'm not sure.

[thefourwings]

You have done the navmesh right haven't you? Not just put 2 triangles through the entire cell going through walls?

 

That would be funny, but no. I watched/read the bethesda turtorial and spent a number of hours navmeshing it so that (in theory) it would work perfectly.

 

If I use the xmarkers then it solves the issue of him getting stuck in the bathroom, so I guess I'll go with that - I just thought they were smart enough to pathfind without.

 

I've found that if I connect the separate pen navmeshes to the main one then it stops everyone from magically transporting, and I've got it so that the animals will stay within the walls, but it still looks kinda funny, because the connected navmesh tells them that they should be able to walk out of their pen, so they just keep walking against the fence. I guess a workaround would be to make the adjoining triangle as small as possible, so that it isn't too apparent, but it still seems like I'm treating the symptom rather than the cause...

[UncleRoe]

i had that problem many times. the tutorial forgets to mention how much a pain in the ass the proccess can be.. even if you get lazy and auto mesh everything.. it causes more of a mess than doing it yourself lol.

 

As for the animal problem. i did the same thing when making prisoner cages for my slaves

(don't ask). i just made a completly new navmesh for the slaves and created a small space around the perimeter of the cages so that they are stuck in their own little navs and can't run into the seperate nav.. i know there are better ways as bethesda figured out a way to connect navs without their slaves running around all over paradise falls. what you and i both should do is visit PF in the geck and see what they did,you can use the same proccess for your animals. also i think if you use the AI package "gaurd" they might not move at all unless you increase the radius. not sure if that's an option for you. Me, i like my slaves movin a little bit.

 

Lastly.. i dunno how big your cages are,but when i want a character/creature to move a specific way, i just set up a couple Xmarkers and link them to the character/creature. this way it won't move anywhere you don't want it to

[thefourwings]

Controlling the creatures' movement with markers is a good idea. Will have a look at paradise falls and let you know if anything becomes more clear.

[thefourwings]

In Paradise Falls, the main area and the slave area are each on a navmesh (determined with flood fill) separated by a really thick green line. It seems to be a quality applied to the edges that connect the two, but I have no idea what it is / does / how to apply it myself... Anyone know?

[UncleRoe]

i think if you look for cover edges in navmesh mode,they appear as green lines. it might be a cover edge. not sure.

[Spiney4]

In Paradise Falls, the main area and the slave area are each on a navmesh (determined with flood fill) separated by a really thick green line. It seems to be a quality applied to the edges that connect the two, but I have no idea what it is / does / how to apply it myself... Anyone know?

 

The thick green lines are "connections" between different wasteland cells. Those should appear when you "Finalize" the Wasteland cell your in. If its not done properly, NPCs can't path between the different cells. Wasteland Navmeshing is a little tricky, because you HAVE to make sure your in the right cells when you Finalize. The tutorial discusses it, maybe not in details. There is another page on navmeshing thats even more detailed, and its wonderful !!!! if you can decipher all the info :)

 

Preferred pathing is a topic discussed on that page that I don't think the tutorial even mentions. I use that when I release my slaves so that they don't run straight into the doors when they open. It works nicely for pathing and using coverage.

 

The URL is: http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/Navmesh_Creation_Workflow

There is a discussion on cover there, too. You will want to read that. I didn't understand cover at all -- the tutorial overly simplifies it -- but, manually applied cover makes combat encounters a lot more interesting and fun, IMHO.

[thefourwings]

The URL is: http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/Navmesh_Creation_Workflow

There is a discussion on cover there, too. You will want to read that. I didn't understand cover at all -- the tutorial overly simplifies it -- but, manually applied cover makes combat encounters a lot more interesting and fun, IMHO.

 

Great resource, thanks! Will read through it all and see if my answer can be found.

[Spiney4]

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I've got two main problems, both of which seem to be navmesh issues, but I could be wrong.

 

1.) Is there some way of 'helping' NPCs navigate from point A to B, apart from using a bunch of patrol markers? I've got an NPC with a scheduled sandbox package and he's supposed to go from the waiting room to the clinic entrance, go outside and stand around for a few hours. Instead, when the scheduled time comes up, he walks into the bathroom and just stands there. If he could walk through walls and ignore the level's geometry, this might make sense, since the shortest route would be a straight line from the bathrooms to the clinic entrance. Granted it's a somewhat complicated path (waiting room>hall>lobby>entrance>cave>door) but I thought the whole idea of the navmesh was that they'd be able to figure this out(?) I don't get any navmesh errors, and the mesh itself looks good (compared against bethesda's other cells).

 

2.) Some of my npc will randomly disappear and reappear somewhere else in the cell, usually in a separate navmesh that is an animal pen (made it a separate navmesh because when it was connected to the rest of the level the animals would just walk through the fences). No idea why they're doing this...

 

3.) Lastly (and not likely a navmesh issue) I've got an NPC in a cell who keeps opening the door and walking out. The door is locked and he hasn't got a key. I want him to be able to open doors in general, just not this one. I'm sure I could write a script for the cell door that identifies whether it's him trying to open and doesn't activate if it's him, but there's got to be a simpler solution(?) Anyone know why he's able to unlock it even though it's a "require's key" door?

 

Thanks again for everyone's help on any of these issues. All the best,

FWoFA

 

I reread your post and I'm sure you'll find some answers on that webpage, but....

1) Preferred Pathing probably is an answer. NPCs will try to use these in a reasonable manner, even when pathing from one marker to another. Beyond, that, I'm not sure. I did not use schedules. AI Packages could be an issue. Maybe not.

 

Its a great idea to look at, and even borrow Bethesda's encounters and cells, and such. I did this in numerous areas and modified them, to the point they were nothing like what I started with. For my mod I borrow "technology" from 4 different game cells, that I can thin of off the top of my head, and at least 1 Warehouse cell -- but, that's what the warehouses are for.

 

At one point I had NPCs on a patrol route that linked IdleMarkers instead of XMarkerHeadings. I didn't notice any difference between the two, to tell the truth. Maybe that's something to explore. as an option, or partial option?

 

2) I see that issue with followers fairly frequently. I mostly see it when an NPC goes from one cell to another through a door "teleport". Maybe preferred pathing would help, but, in your case, I don't know how. Are these NPCs trying to get some place that has this pen in between? I've seen really random things happen using ESPs/ESMs that were made without the GECK, for what that's worth.

 

3) I believe I saw a mention about this in the tutorials about NPCs ignoring locks, but I can't find the webpage There is an check box for doors to be "Ignored by Sandbox" if its a sandbox related NPC interaction. I have slave pen with a sandbox inside of it and its closed with a locked door, but though it is pickable, it also has a key, for those with poor lockpicking skills. I don't know if that's keeping the slaves inside, but its my suspicion, without actually testing it out. The most entertaining part about mine is the slave pen is in the center of a big firefight, and the Slaves just stand around like its no big deal. I suppose I should "fix" this, but, I find it entertaining, on some level.