Water shader bugging out for me.

[RyukaRukario996]

With or without mods, I can't get the water to show up properly at all in FO3.

 

Allow30Shader is set to 0 and shaderpackage17 was not replaced. It used to work fine but now the reflection either never shows up, or shows up in a totally wrong location causing this to happen:

 

http://www.udhq.org/dl/ScreenShot1.jpg

Note the odd "void" like clippings of the water and how the reflection isn't even showing up at all.

 

 

I'm using the DLC provided by the steam version of FO 3 GOTY but I am using a CD copy of the game... I don't know if this is the problem because even not loading the DLC the problem persists.

 

I have no access to a working DVD drive so I can't reinstall off my original CD copy.

 

There are no files modifying textures or meshes in my Data folder, it's all stock content except for DarnUI.

 

My GPU is a Radeon HD 6850, here's the driver information:

Graphics Card Manufacturer	Powered by AMD
Graphics Chipset	AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series
Device ID	6738
Vendor ID	1002
Subsystem ID	3100
Subsystem Vendor ID	1682
Graphics Bus Capability	PCI Express 2.0
Maximum Bus Setting	PCI Express 2.0 x16
BIOS Version	013.006.000.006
BIOS Part Number	113-687AZNF-10  
BIOS Date	2010/10/07
Memory Size	1024 MB
Memory Type	GDDR5
Core Clock in MHz	900 MHz
Memory Clock in MHz	1050 MHz
Total Memory Bandwidth in GByte/s	134.4 GByte/s


Driver Packaging Version	12.104-130328a-157485C-ATI
Catalyst Version	13.4
Provider	Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
2D Driver Version	8.01.01.1295
2D Driver File Path	/REGISTRY/MACHINE/SYSTEM/ControlSet001/Control/CLASS/{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}/0002
Direct3D Version	9.14.10.0969
OpenGL Version	6.14.10.12217
AMD VISION Engine Control Center Version	2013.0328.2218.38225

And this is the contents of RendererInfo.txt :

Renderer Device Information:
	AMD Radeon HD 6800 Series
	aticfx32.dll
	RenderPath         		: BSSM_SV_2_B
	PSversion          		: 300
	VSversion          		: 300
	VStarget           		: vs_2_0
	PStarget           		: ps_2_b
	PS2xtarget         		: ps_2_b
	maxPS20inst        		: 512
	3.0 Support        		: yes
	3.0 Lighting       		: yes
	Nonpowerof2textures		: yes
	FP16ARGB blending  		: yes
	FP16ARGB filtering 		: yes
	High dynamic range 		: yes
	Bloom lighting     		: no
	Refraction         		: yes
	2.0 hairw           		: yes
	SLI mode           		: no
	Water shader       		: yes
	Water reflections  		: yes
	Water displacement 		: yes
	Water high res     		: no
	Multisample Type   		: 1
	Transparency MS    		: no
	Shader Package     		: 17
	HW Thread Count    		: 2

And also the [Water] section of FALLOUT3.INI :

[Water]
bUseWaterShader=1
bUseWaterReflections=1
bUseWaterRefractions=1
bUseWaterDepth=1
bUseWaterHiRes=0
bUseWaterDisplacements=1
bUseWaterLOD=1
bReflectExplosions=0
bAutoWaterSilhouetteReflections=1
bForceHighDetailReflections=0
bForceLowDetailReflections=0
fTileTextureDivisor=4.7500
fSurfaceTileSize=2048.0000
fNearWaterOutdoorTolerance=1024.0000
fNearWaterIndoorTolerance=512.0000
fNearWaterUnderwaterVolume=0.9000
fNearWaterUnderwaterFreq=0.3000
uNearWaterPoints=8
uNearWaterRadius=1000
uSurfaceFPS=12

If I absolutely require a reinstall then I'm at a loss since there is absolutely no reason for this to be happening otherwise. I have all the original unmodified files as part of the steam release of FO3 GOTY but is there anything I should be aware of with steam's release as opposed to a disc copy?

 

It could be I'm loosing my mind and this is typical Fallout 3 stock buggery but either way I swear the water reflection shader used to work perfectly until now...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[pkleiss]

First, it sure looks like you have modified water meshes/textures. Are you absolutely sure there are no loose files in your \Data sub-folders? You do know that simply unticking a mod does not remove extracted files from these folders, right? They must be removed manually. Also, custom water meshes and textures do not have to be in the \water folder. They can be anywhere the mod author put them. As a test, try temporarily renaming your \meshes and \textures folders (to meshesA & texturesA for example) and running the game. That will force the game to only use assets from the BSAs. Other things might go awry, but it's just a test to see if the water looks any better. Just change the folder names back to their original when done.

 

Second, you can also try renaming you ini files and let the game generate new ones and see if that helps. If not, just change the names back.

 

Third, can you access the launch screen? If so, try running the graphics config tool once again (you had to do this once, the very first time you ever played Fallout 3) or manually change the settings to the most basic level and test in game. Then try subsequent higher levels of graphic settings.

 

Best of luck.

Edited November 8, 2013 by pkleiss

[RyukaRukario996]

That's what I've tried. Another member of the forum suggested I reinstall the game but I'm not sure if I should just copy over the BSA's from the Steam version as I have the original GFWL Retail release in DVD form.

 

The only sub folders in my Data folder are: Shaders, Video, and Music. There are no third party ESP's or ESM's, just nothing but the official DLC.

 

Turning off reflections makes the water totally occlude the parts that would otherwise show up like a "void", but turning off reflections makes it impossible to see into the water as a result... Turning off refractions makes this odd bumpmap texture appear where I would otherwise should beable to see out of the water.

 

Is there a way I can just make the water simple translucent in and out? If I can't have nice reflections atleast I would like to make the water functional like in any standard game from the 90's

 

LAST SECOND EDIT: I also tried different versions of Catalyst, even the one that originally shipped with the card on CD and it does not appear to make any difference other than framerate drops\rises.

Edited November 8, 2013 by RyukaRukario996

[Purr4me]

I am going to attempt to show how to set up a esp for your testing problem. It involves you understanding and following through with this.

 

I will upload a few screen shots to demonstrate what you need to do. esp's you must make will only Match "your system" so don't upload these things you make to share.

 

if you discover changes by the use of this method, your card is done, time for a new one. If no changes are taking place, your system is reasserting backups so nothing ever gets changed.

 

This Totally effects all water in game.

 

be right back:

 

kitty.

[RyukaRukario996]

I also should of mentioned, I did a SHA-1 hash comparison between my standard Fallout 3 files from the latest patch retail copy against the copy I got off of Steam. The BSA's and ESM match perfectly so there's no way I somehow messed up my original files.

 

Sorry I just got up not more than a hour ago and I'm pretty out of it...

[Purr4me]

I also should of mentioned, I did a SHA-1 hash comparison between my standard Fallout 3 files from the latest patch retail copy against the copy I got off of Steam. The BSA's and ESM match perfectly so there's no way I somehow messed up my original files.

 

Sorry I just got up not more than a hour ago and I'm pretty out of it...

That's ok, we are here to help you determine what's wrong, both games source data is identical, the Engines are not. on raw retail, I have been down this road already. That ware bug is just horrible when it gets into the system. uploading shots now, soon linked here.

1. http://fs3.nexusmods.com/Libs/Common/Managers/Downloads?Download&nid=120&fid=46419
2. download, install, and test first, see if changes take place. It's from here, the nexus.

kitty

Edited November 8, 2013 by Purr4me

[Purr4me]

Ok, base this on a wasteland load in the geck, you must have a world space loaded up. I suggest just out side vault 101 and pay attention to that wasteland puddle. this is Key point , as it si effected by all DLC's and the main games esm. that wasteland puddle will show dencity, and color, fog , refraction, reflections. all of it. It's the same color at a distance too. But, you need to change at least 1 object so the geck writes the set preferences into the esp file or nothing will happen.

 

1. http://imageshack.us/a/img545/5474/jaef.jpg
2. http://imageshack.us/a/img9/898/tqfo.jpg
3. http://imageshack.us/a/img845/2606/2py1.jpg
4. http://imageshack.us/a/img855/3748/1dtc.png
5. http://imageshack.us/a/img268/7092/g1f3.jpg
6. http://imageshack.us/a/img138/2159/91z8.png

That is the demo you need to use. Don't forget the steps, Enable any object But water, this covers all aspects of in-game things as the players view.

I hope things do change, so you know whats needed. another possibility is the direct - x data files might be squashed.

 

kitty.

[RyukaRukario996]

When I try out the EXE the game performs even more fast than usual but when I go to load my save game it warned me that content is missing, however it does not appear I've lost really... anything at all. The reflection bug still persists in this executable but the framerate is DRAMATICALLY better.

 

I don't have GECK installed but I'll get on that shortly. What exactly was different in this exe than the one that I had in the retail? It seriously runs alot faster and that kinda surprised me. I notice it's filesize is alot smaller than the one I have, and when I throw in FOSE it loads fose_1_0.dll rather than fose_1_7.dll. Was that EXE version 1.0 of Fallout 3?

[Purr4me]

 

What exactly was different in this exe than the one that I had in the retail?

Sorry, that information I am forbidden to discus. But, it was only intended for a diagnostic test.

 

Here, what proved to be the results was intention, this was the intended response. But, the issue is not resolved with the------

 

but when I go to load my save game it warned me that content is missing,

 

however it does not appear I've lost really... anything at all. The reflection bug still persists

so this indicates another issue that is present.

 

in this executable but the frame rate is DRAMATICALLY better.

which means the steam overlay and one other piece of software is the cause.

 

secur rom from the retail install is the bug.

 

please post that launchers file size here. This is the catch. you are using two sources of an update feature. This combined with DRM and Graphics settings are the result.

 

the game responded..... "in this executable but the frame rate is DRAMATICALLY better." so the engine works as intended, or there would have been no change.

 

the graphics bug remains. The data is ok, the files are not corrupted. data is being subdued due to DRM functions as The backwards compatible executable indicates.

 

no, you cant's update the GECK just yet, nor install it just yet, in order to install and update the geck to work with this exe, Fake /steam version , you need the retail Original executable install from theretail disc so the GECK update will install the correct data and update it to this very "test model " you just now installed.

 

this was the test, why I chose this path for you, to see the result given. It tells me what, and where things are. I hope you backed up the old one. if not,

here is what you can do. rename the fallout3 directory to any name, and reboot., rename the "My Document folder/ my games...to somethig else so the installer nd any nmm. or what ever , /....steam systems can not find the data, hide it. incert the dvd retail disc and reinstall a fresh game folder, it will remake a retail install. you want only the default retail data from it for the geck update procedures. install now, the geck, then update the geck, this will install the correct data to the new game folder including the fake patched version of the executable from steam, the geck kit updateer works too with steam systems, IT will update the 1.0.12 version of the engine for you, no need for the fake patch, but, you can now verify Identical data of the renamed source, old game exe with the new one and find they are a dead match., make a folder, move all NEW files retail and updated files now residing in the new retail installed "ROOT" game fodler" only out of harms way, go to the renamed folder ,and simply drag all files there into the new game folder, over write all.

 

Go into the new saved , moved root data folder and copy only the geck files into the new game folder.

 

this will cut off the snakes head, sort of speak. the DRM from the steam , DLC content will not be there to inter fear with the graphics any more and you should end up with clear graphics.

 

Why? all of this?.............I'll tell you why.....you built a game using two sources...using two methods of software DRM's applied to one game. You mixed up control data ,you literately have two versions of fallout 3 installed on one machine. + steams overlay controlling it all, and any guess on my end as to what ever else is being used. you only have one display.

 

By my count ? 3 graphics setups being controlled By steam.

 

you did request help. Fose only works in a specific way for a reason.

 

 

and when I throw in FOSE it loads fose_1_0.dll rather than fose_1_7.dll. Was that EXE version 1.0 of Fallout 3?

I know what it does.

 

kitty.

[RyukaRukario996]

I'll need to get a working DVD drive into my machine until I can install the retail release. Not sure if I still have the CD with me since I moved out of my parents place otherwise I'll have to install it remotely on one of my old machines then transfer that over to the machine I'm using right now.

 

I actually don't load the steam friends overlay as it causes really odd problems like the mouse not being captured properly and the overlay itself being "textureless" in certain situations. I always play in a window so there's really no point to using the overlay when I can just alt+tab or hit the windows key to multitask to the steam community windows.

 

EDIT: I actually don't have my CD on me so I'm going to get it back in the mail in a week or so from now depending on when my Father will actually remember to mail it along with several other things I've been asking him to send me already.

 

Also I've been toying around in other games including Oblivion, and any other game using Shader Model 2.0 and I don't notice anything bad happening in any... so I'm still greatly confused why even when using the Steam version of the game the water is bugging horribly now.

 

Actually reinstalling the DirectX redistributables rather than using the web updater didn't make much of a change either. (going off of the one supplied with the installscript.VDF in the Steam copy)

 

In addition I still have a COMPLETELY UNTOUCHED install sitting on my old computer I would hope, and it should have the latest patch Bethesda released shortly before Mothership Zeta became the last DLC to be produced for FO3. But I get this sinking feeling if I compare SHA-1's between what I have now and that install it's going to turn up green anyways.

Edited November 10, 2013 by RyukaRukario996