Upgrading computer for modded Skyrim

[Werne]

AMD sucks at 3D modeling because sculpting is a single-threaded task, the FX will go bonkers because it has a pathetic per-core performance compared to an Intel CPU. I know, I'm a 3D modeler. However, when it comes to Photoshop...

http://media.bestofmicro.com/J/6/386898/original/photoshop.png

It's a slight difference between an FX 8350 and an i7 4770K, 5 seconds only on task that lasts over a minute, some 6-7%. Rendering in Blender is also pretty good, FX 8350 lags behind by some 10%. Sculpting, ugh, FX lags waaay behind. Price difference is huge, especially when you take the fact that an FX 8320 is a lower-binned FX 8350 which performs pretty much the same once you fiddle with frequency, it's 1/3 (8350) or 1/2 (8320) cheaper. As I said, it sucks at some things but in Photoshop and pure rendering applications, you get a lot of bang for buck, especially when you overclock it.

 

 

By the way, I think we just hijacked the thread, so I suggest that we either drop the argument or continue it via PM, cause me thinks this is impolite to the OP (and I apologize for it).

[ermacos]

I believe that debate helps him, its not bad...

 

Now that AMD made a big attack in the gpu market and NVIDIA caught in the sleep, they may do the same thing in the cpu market, who knows... till then, I personally prefer intel.

 

new consoles carry an amd cpu and gpu = apu, so who knows.. They may give us a new APU soon, equal and/or better than 4770k for 180-200$

The only positive about AMD in the cpu market (and in a personal perspective), is the platform EOL. Their platforms live much much longer and while the intel ones die so fast and discontinued after a year, amd platforms are still there for 2-3-4 years long...

Edited November 9, 2013 by ermacos

[Werne]

I believe that debate helps him, its not bad...

Well, maybe, there is a bunch of benchmarks and stuff we post.

 

Now that AMD made a big attack in the gpu market and NVIDIA caught in the sleep, they may do the same thing in the cpu market, who knows... till then, I personally prefer intel.

Maybe. They promised a lot of performance from the Bulldozer as well, but it proved slower than old Phenom II CPUs. Then they promised a lot of performance from the Piledriver platform, but that only evened things out with the old Phenom II CPUs. Octa-core Piledrivers beat the Phenom in multi-threading, but not in per-core performance, even though they are built on a newer manufacturing process and newer architecture. Steamroller might be the first decent CPU release since Phenom II, if it actually works as good as they say it does.

 

From what I understand, Steamroller should bring cca 25% increase in performance over Piledriver, which is not a small increse, but it ain't much either compared to Intel. However, it could give a chance to even things out through overclocking, so far the FX-series can come about 20-25% behind Intel in per-core performance once overclocked, add another 25% to that and you have the same performance as Intel, just with 4 extra cores.

 

But there are a lot of rumors circulating around saying that Steamroller won't be having any FX-series CPUs and that FX 9590 was the last one, which if true, will suck. There are also rumors that it won't be backwards compatible with the AM3+ socket, which would also be problematic, it's one of the reasons A-series didn't have many sales initially, they required a new FM socket mobo and weren't compatible with AM sockets. I highly doubt the last one, it would piss off a lot of people.

 

If Steamroller is backwards-compatible with AM3+, actually brings the level of performance AMD is advertising, and has octa-core models that allow overclocking (AMD has been modifying each new CPU release to OC better), they might actually gain market share. And if they do manage to nail Intel from the rear like they did with Nvidia, it'll be just like the good old days. But if AMD flops again and Ivy Bridge/Haswell CPUs drop in price, AMD will get shredded.

 

new consoles carry an amd cpu and gpu = apu, so who knows.. They may give us a new APU soon, equal and/or better than 4770k for 180-200$

That's actually possible. You see, AMD really nailed it with the FX-series, they ain't as fast as an Intel in current-gen games but they have 8 cores, handle memory-intensive programs very well, and you pay little to have great multi-threading. It's something AMD is good at - bang for buck. Granted, they haven't saturated the high-end market this time around, but at least they have the low-end and mid-range market covered.

 

And with the Steamroller architecture coming out, if they used Richland's module design as base and still managed the get 25% more out of it with the new manufacturing process and architectural changes, you can expect something that's not as far behind Ivy Bridge as Piledriver, and overclocks like crazy. Give a bunch of A10-6800K Richland APUs to someone who knows what he's doing and has a decent cooler, and most of them will reach over 5GHz without breaking a sweat.

 

Just as an example, I've seen an A10 6800K reaching 5.7GHz, guy was unfortunately afraid to push it further (I would've, even if it blows up). That brought around 40-45% performance increase out of that thing which puts it on-par with i5 3570. And then take into consideration that it has an integrated Radeon 7750/7770-like graphics and costs around 30$ more than an i3 3240 (50$ less than i5 3570) and when on stock speeds, performs nearly identically to that i3 CPU-wise. That's why AMD CPUs are housed in a lot of budget machines, you get plenty for the money, unless you pay for an FX 9590 where you get crap.

 

The only positive about AMD in the cpu market (and in a personal perspective), is the platform EOL. Their platforms live much much longer and while the intel ones die so fast and discontinued after a year, amd platforms are still there for 2-3-4 years long...

It's because of backwards compatibility. And lately, because of crappy performance, old CPUs still perform as well as new ones. For example, I have a Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3 which supports AM3+ and AM3 CPUs, and it will likely support Steamroller too. AM3 mobos support AM3, AM2+ and AM2 CPUs. The AM2+ motherboards can work with AM3, AM2 and AM2+ CPUs in them. AM2 can work with 939 and AM2 CPUs. 939 can work with 754 and 939 CPUs. Not all mobos support this kind of stuff though, and they don't support all CPUs from the specific socket, but there's a large range of compatibility on a large range of boards.

 

That's why AMD machines have been called the "budget systems" and "upgrade friendly", you could use your old mobo for your new CPU until you can afford a new mobo, replace the mobo when you can, and once the next generation of CPUs comes out you just pop it in and keep chugging. Intel, on the other hand, changes sockets often as well but they are not backwards compatible, meaning you have to change mobos too. But then again, if you have 250-350$ to spend on a CPU, then you likely have another 100$ for a new mobo as well.

[spookycandy]

Chiming in here to say that I have a Silverstone case and love it to pieces. Prior to this, I had a steel frame/aluminum body Coolermaster stacker which is still in good condition and has been passed on to a friend. I love my case. For cases, I have some stellar advice to give you:

 

• Plastic is cancer. Do not buy a plastic case, or a case that has big platic bezels on it (no CM Haf case). If you must get plastic, go with a lower end Antec case.
• Look for plenty of ventilation on the top, back, front and sides. Even if it's not necessary now, it can make the case last longer.
• Try to get one that has a motherboard tray. I am not sure how readily these are available in lower end cases, but they make things a lot faster to set up.
• Buy a bigger case than you think you need (think full tower, at least 8" thick). The only thing that made me upgrade my case was that it wasn't toolless and wire management was very tedious. I bought it in early 2006 and just replaced it this year. My graphics card has quadrupled in size since then and yet it still held everything just fine with plenty of airflow. I have also managed to drop it down the stairs with my components in it and everything inside was alright. :whistling:
• Lian Li is popular, but I have owned one of their cases before for an HTPC machine and the ventilation was awful. Overpriced, IMO.
• Look for toolless.
• I prefer cases that have a power supply on the bottom because it makes for better wire management.

On the subject of other parts you may need in an upgrade, the other people in this thread are cheerily arguing CPU. I will bring up information to supplement their debates. I have been building my own computers for years and have made many dumb mistakes, costly mistakes and even downright horrible decisions.

 

• Never use the stock heatsink for your CPU. I recommend Zalman, though I personally use Noctua. Noctuas are great, but huge.
• If you live in America, search for parts on Newegg and sort by Best Rated. Trust me.
• Arctic Silver is king when it comes to thermal paste. Your thermal paste will dry out if you don't use it for another year, so I recommend selling it or buying a very tiny tube.
• You will be upgrading to DDR3 memory. Buy it with your motherboard. Corsair is solid, but G.Skill is my favorite. The speed others mentioned on the first page is correct.
• Your purchase order should be Motherboard + CPU + Heatsink + RAM - > Hard drive - > Graphics Card - > new case (unless your old case can't fit your stuff). A way to save money is to utilize all four RAM slots. For example, only buy 2x 2gb sticks in the beginning and add two more for a total of 8 later on when you have more money. :wink:
• There are two motherboard manufacturers you can trust: Gigabyte and ASUS. I strongly advise against going with another company. I used to work in computer repair, and you have no idea how many boards I've seen in various conditions. Don't buy the cheapest motherboard from either company.
• SSDs are not cost-effective but are a huge improvement to gaming performance. I recommend waiting until the holiday season sales (or long after), because they are rapidly becoming more affordable. Samsung is shining here. I also trust Micron (I have actually been inside their facilities) and Intel. Intel is expensive for what you get, and not worth it in SSDland.
• Ride your current GPU for as long as you can and don't cheap out on the next one.

As for upgrade times, this is my schedule:

 

Every four years: Motherboard + CPU

Every two years: Graphics card.

Whenever the time feels right and newegg is having a crazy sale: Memory and harddrives. I usually don't upgrade memory too often (probably about once every 3 years), but I do tend to stock up on it if I ever see it on clearance.

 

 

You have to balance cost vs longevity. It is better, IMO to save up for parts that will be relevant for longer than it is to buy everything right now and be outdated in a year. Find out what your budget is, the max you are willing to spend, before you start searching for parts. This can help you easily decide whether to go Intel or AMD, nVidia or AMD, as well as in what order you want to order the parts in.

 

My honest opinion is that AMD (formerly ATI) Graphics cards stay relevant longer while Nvidia usually kills in terms of top tier performance (Think $800 cards). Once you're in the budget range of cards (<$350) AMD is almost always the better choice. This is coming from so someone who has not strayed from Nvidia for 3+ years. Save up and buy the nicest card you can buy. Do research on what you want out if it. Read benchmarks. Don't look back once you have made your purchase. If it takes you six months to save up for a decent card, wait that long. Trust me. 700 series is solid. The 4GB 770 is amazing for the price. I am not too knowledgable on AMD's lineup, but they are catching my attention.

 

That has been my contribution. Good luck. :laugh:

[ermacos]

here it is... today news http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Spills-more-Kaveri-Beans-AMD-APU13

 

A new APU by amd... it sounds promising, again...

Edited November 12, 2013 by ermacos

[Werne]

@ermacos Yeah, but remember, APUs are low-end CPUs and if a quad-core low-end product can run things nicely, imagine what a high-end unlocked octa-core Steamroller can do.

 

Speaking of which, can't wait to see reviews and benchmarks on the new high-end ones, although I'm not too excited. While AMD did switch to a newer manufacturing process and enhanced their architecture, a crappy old Bulldozer is still running underneath all the shiny new stuff. And that makes me skeptical.

[ermacos]

here it is http://www.techpowerup.com/190493/amd-details-embedded-product-roadmap.html

 

click the second image and check "high performance"... so now they making a 4 core 8 thread cpu, early 2014 (around june) hierofalcon soc.

Edited November 12, 2013 by ermacos