Static Collections and Material Swap strangeness

[VilanceD]

2nd try posting this....

 

Hi, I am getting a strange result when I use CK to create a static collection(SC) using either HouseK or DecoMain building parts. The material swaps(MS) change drastically. For the HouseK parts they immediately almost all become primary color red, secondary color green. If I cycle thru the MS or select edit base, edit nif, custom material swap, a few original colors remain but most are not the normal options or just red/green.

 

As a programmer/DBA type this looks like some kind of list/array with offset/index error.

 

Any way to fix this, or work around, other than don't use SCs?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

V.

[notaconfirmeduser]

Hello.

 

I'm just an amateur, but I've found some partial workarounds. Here are some options I use:

 

1. I group similarly named items that share common material swap options, or are neutral to material swaps. Items with NO MAT SWAPS or maybe one or two are most neutral. EXAMPLE: The stairs I like are called MetalIntStairsStr01, and MetalIntStairsStr02. They are neutral to material swaps, and don't really mind being thrown in with other types of items. They don't change. I created a stairwell, and surrounded them with DecoMainA1x1WinC02Full wall pieces. The material swap I used for the walls was DecoKitAtoBrickRed01. I created a SCOL of all those pieces, four floors worth, and then the DecoMain pieces swapped back to their base MAT. No problem. I edited the SCOL, and re-selected DecoKitAtoBrickRed01. Everything went back the way I wanted. The stairs didn't care what I did.

In the same manner, I can create several different SCOLS and use the GROUP function to glue them together.

 

2. Another option: I create an SCOL as normal. I watch the colors go wacky. Then, I find the new SCOL in the object window. Right click. Select "Recreate Static Collection Meshes" Now here's the tough part. While my old SCOL remains, a duplicate SCOL just got a name change and was dumped unceremoniously in a random place on my computer. For me, it goes into my Mod Organizer 2 overwrite>Meshes>SCOL folder, under the name of my mod. In that folder (crossing fingers), I find a weird file with a lot of numbers. When I open it with NIFSKOPE, I find it is my SCOL. I am able to select individual bits of the SCOL and change their textures manually. To do that I need the name of the desired MAT, and its path. The name and path I get from the CK, maybe with some assistance from xEdit.

So, I research the names and paths, and then copy them all onto a digital STICKY note app. Then I copy and paste the names and paths into Nifskope.

 

One caveat: Seems like NIFSKOPE will only let you change clumps of SCOL parts that share the same MATS. Maybe there's a work around, but I'm a novice with the app.

 

I'm no teacher, but I hope this helps you at least a tiny bit. Feel free to ask questions.

[VilanceD]

I have done some work in Nifskope specifically on matswaps. I could see exporting the entire SCOL as a nif and doing that. Its not like I dislike the red, its the green secondary color that is hard to match too.

[VilanceD]

In a similar vein, if I am going to do that, probably would be a good idea to create a custom DecoMainC...Doorway. Currently the inside mat is white, so it matches poorly with the HouseK stuff even though exterior wise, and wall thickness wise its perfect. Unless any knows of a nif that already does this in a mod here?

[notaconfirmeduser]

I had another idea for you, and I should've thought of it earlier. I've used this technique before, so it may work for you.

 

If we're talking about a wall, or a series of walls, I've copied and renamed a nif for a particular wall of interest. Then, using copy and paste, I've patched together a single texture for it from a source I liked. Then I created a new single mat file for the new Nif. Worked pretty good, even though I'm no artist.

 

Might be worth a try.

 

I did it for the interior bay windows, because I didn't like the options. I wanted blue bay windows to match some of the blue wall textures in game.

 

Best regards.

[greekrage]

From another thread.....(i hate retyping it...)

 

"

THis is similar to the issue i ran into with my wallinton mod where simple material swaps would not work after i generated precombined data and all i would see in game were the vanilla default materials...

For that mod i had to make whole buildings that i had swapped materials on walls,floors etc... Into gigantic scols and that actually worked when generating precombines...

In my latest mod that im working on im doing it the hard way but with zero issues...

This means... Taking the nifs and making new material files with my textures ,applying them to the nif in nifskope and saving as a custom nif... In CK i then take the part i want to use and duplicate it and swap the nif with the custom version. (basically making a new object with a new form id)...

Imagine for a location im doing atm...i have over 1600 new nifs that are new objects and many texture variations of many of those objects.... This way i dont depend on material swaps but instead have a nif with each variation and ZERO issues.. aside from the file size which will be bigger...

Just outta curiosity ...disable precombines and see if they keep the swaps after leaving and going back..."

 

EDit:

Always have auto sanitize " OFF when saving because Nifskope corrupts certain nifs like the House kits...

Edited October 20, 2022 by greekrage

[notaconfirmeduser]

From another thread.....(i hate retyping it...)

Thanks so much greekrage.This is incredibly useful information, and going into my knowledge base immediately.

[VilanceD]

From another thread.....(i hate retyping it...)

 

"

THis is similar to the issue i ran into with my wallinton mod where simple material swaps would not work after i generated precombined data and all i would see in game were the vanilla default materials...

For that mod i had to make whole buildings that i had swapped materials on walls,floors etc... Into gigantic scols and that actually worked when generating precombines...

In my latest mod that im working on im doing it the hard way but with zero issues...

This means... Taking the nifs and making new material files with my textures ,applying them to the nif in nifskope and saving as a custom nif... In CK i then take the part i want to use and duplicate it and swap the nif with the custom version. (basically making a new object with a new form id)...

Imagine for a location im doing atm...i have over 1600 new nifs that are new objects and many texture variations of many of those objects.... This way i dont depend on material swaps but instead have a nif with each variation and ZERO issues.. aside from the file size which will be bigger...

Just outta curiosity ...disable precombines and see if they keep the swaps after leaving and going back..."

 

EDit:

Always have auto sanitize " OFF when saving because Nifskope corrupts certain nifs like the House kits...

 

All roads lead to nifskope. Wow, lot to unpack there, doesn't look like a quick thing to try. For now I'll keep making red houses with dark brown trim. At some point it looks like this will be inevitable to have to try such solution(s).

[84Cronos]

2nd try posting this....

 

Hi, I am getting a strange result when I use CK to create a static collection(SC) using either HouseK or DecoMain building parts. The material swaps(MS) change drastically. For the HouseK parts they immediately almost all become primary color red, secondary color green. If I cycle thru the MS or select edit base, edit nif, custom material swap, a few original colors remain but most are not the normal options or just red/green.

 

As a programmer/DBA type this looks like some kind of list/array with offset/index error.

 

Any way to fix this, or work around, other than don't use SCs?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

V.

I've re-created a SCOL test setting with the different kits you used and it appears that the mat swaps for the HouseKit stop functioning correctly when being part of a SCOL. This might stem from the fact that especially the matswaps for the outer parts (wood panels) were probably done by color pallet scaling instead of the traditional way of switching to an entirely new texture set. I haven't, or only rarely, seen such behavior in the CK. Color pallet objects usually seem to work fine while being part of a SCOL, although they seem to revert back to some kind of standard coloring which you can usually not achieve with any existing matswap (e.g. the HiTec swaps). For instance I do get some kind of super bright beige tone for the HouseKit while its parts are part of a SCOL. This seems to either be some kind of standard color or one that is specific to my CK/PC? Who knows? Bethesda's tools are janky at best.

 

In any case, it seems that the matswaps work fine again after breaking up the SCOL. So I would suggest the following workflow:

1. Create your buildings.

2. Create your SCOL's

3. Place your buildings where you want them to be and make sure that their position won't change much

4. Swap to your desired matswap

5. Break up the SCOL to get rid of the weird colors

 

P.S: I also suspect that it's some kind of color pallet indexing error or a default value.

Edited October 21, 2022 by 84Cronos

[greekrage]

 

2nd try posting this....

 

Hi, I am getting a strange result when I use CK to create a static collection(SC) using either HouseK or DecoMain building parts. The material swaps(MS) change drastically. For the HouseK parts they immediately almost all become primary color red, secondary color green. If I cycle thru the MS or select edit base, edit nif, custom material swap, a few original colors remain but most are not the normal options or just red/green.

 

As a programmer/DBA type this looks like some kind of list/array with offset/index error.

 

Any way to fix this, or work around, other than don't use SCs?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

V.

I've re-created a SCOL test setting with the different kits you used and it appears that the mat swaps for the HouseKit stop functioning correctly when being part of a SCOL. This might stem from the fact that especially the matswaps for the outer parts (wood panels) were probably done by color pallet scaling instead of the traditional way of switching to an entirely new texture set. I haven't, or only rarely, seen such behavior in the CK. Color pallet objects usually seem to work fine while being part of a SCOL, although they seem to revert back to some kind of standard coloring which you can usually not achieve with any existing matswap (e.g. the HiTec swaps). For instance I do get some kind of super bright beige tone for the HouseKit while its parts are part of a SCOL. This seems to either be some kind of standard color or one that is specific to my CK/PC? Who knows? Bethesda's tools are janky at best.

 

In any case, it seems that the matswaps work fine again after breaking up the SCOL. So I would suggest the following workflow:

1. Create your buildings.

2. Create your SCOL's

3. Place your buildings where you want them to be and make sure that their position won't change much

4. Swap to your desired matswap

5. Break up the SCOL to get rid of the weird colors

 

P.S: I also suspect that it's some kind of color pallet indexing error or a default value.

 

I agree to variations of HouseK parts to have been done with simple color manipulation instead of of a different texture all together.. But even so they still have those edited texture maps as part of a material/swap file and that is what the game looks at when loading and not how the color/texture variation was made... I also suspect that HouseK parts where originally scols converted to Statics or something similar...Hence why nifskope has issues with them when they are sanitized . I had to dump 100s of hours of work where i used HouseK parts to build a whole buildings that i retextured in nifskope because upon saving Nifskope corrupted the names leading to either crashes in CK when mesh was used or Issues when generating previs (walls of texture across the map etc. ).

Meaning that HouseK parts Do have an issue that shows up when edited.

Due to my "new found" knowledge of the workings of textures and texture swaps etc. that ive been using for the past 3 months A LOT (Importing textures from various sources,Editing texture maps,creating new material files ,editing nifs to use the new files and materials etc.. ) ive edited and manipulated almost every static in the game but never had an issue until i used the HouseK parts.

MY biggest issue was ...Even though they looked fine after my texture editing and placement in the CK ,as soon as i tried to generate previs all hell broke loose.. Or without precombined data and previs in game they would revert to default colors etc..

So final thoughts on these particular pieces is that the DEV that made them used a different method at some stage that is incompatible .

The only way i got them to work was to always make sure Auto Sanitize is off when saving in nifskope and texture variations are done piece by piece and not in a scol and then and only then used as part of a scol...

Here is an example of a working scol using houseK parts using my method that works without issues..(and to be honest allows for a much more detailed job with great results)..

Edited October 21, 2022 by greekrage