Considering a GPU Upgrade.

[Werne]

Actually price yes, but the r290x is far from the fastest card on the market. The gtx780ti runs rings around the r290x.

I've seen benchmarks where an overclocked R9 290 reference model (not 290X) with an aftermarket cooler (Arctic Cooling Accelero III), performs the same as a reference GTX 780 Ti, while running cooler and quieter, still cutting 25$ below the price of a GTX 780 and having 1GB VRAM more. Temperatures are what's keeping it slower, once aftermarket cooling comes into play, the card becomes a beast.

 

That's from a pure performance standpoint, now for the price. While the 290 series may not be the fastest cards, they cut close for 1/2 the price of a 780 Ti and offer best price/performance on the market. For someone willing to spend 1000$ on a card that may seem irrelevant, but looking at pure price/performance ratio, R9 290 wins by a large margin when compared to practically any card on the market right now.

 

GTX 780 Ti outperforms the R9 290, that's a fact, but Nvidia doesn't have anything with that amount of sheer power for the price. That's from my point of view though, I look at everything by seeing what do I get for the price, and a 15% performance doesn't justify a 300$ premium in my opinion, unless you really need the extra 15%.

 

Skyrim is particularly viscious on the CPU

Yes and no. You see, the game is vicious on the CPU because it uses two cores with the other two doing light tasks only, all the heavy stuff is on only two cores. ZeroSaber has an i5 3570K that has excellent per-core performance (though I don't understand the need for an unlocked CPU if he's not going to overclock), which means the game will run happily on it, it even runs smooth as butter on my FX 8320 (and also uses only 4 cores, two for heavy and two for light tasks).

 

If it were a multi-threaded game, it would be able to utilize all cores on the CPU, so the 80% load on two cores would become 10% load per-core on my octa-core, or 20% per-core on ZeroSaber's quad-core. But it's not multi-threaded, uses a lot of CPU cycles and is primarily designed to utilize only two threads.

 

Older CPUs will have problems with Skyrim, but any high-end Intel since the Westmere era and any high-end AMDs since Phenom II X4 (excluding Bulldozer FX-series, that was crap) will be able to run Skyrim smoothly.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Werne

[ZeroSaber39]

Skyrim is particularly viscious on the CPU

Yes I've heard that repeatedly thing is like Werne said I've never had CPU issues with my i5 3570k, if Skyrim performance monitor is reporting CPU usage correctly then on average Skyrim uses around 50% of my CPU.

 

 

 

(though I don't understand the need for an unlocked CPU if he's not going to overclock),

I didn't say I wasn't going to I just said I hadn't mainly because I know nothing at all about overclocking so I'm hesitant to mess around with it, when I built my system I tried to build it with overclocking potential in case I decided it was something I wanted to do later down the road after I learned more about it.

 

Anyway thanks for the feedback it looks like I'll be going with the 780 ti, only question now is which model, this is the one I'm thinking:

 

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814487003

 

I'll probably deposit the money for it into my account tomorrow then place the order the next day or so after so if anyone has anything to say about the model of 780 ti there's still sometime before I'll be officially placing the order thanks again.

[Thor.]

 

Actually price yes, but the r290x is far from the fastest card on the market. The gtx780ti runs rings around the r290x.

I've seen benchmarks where an overclocked R9 290 reference model (not 290X) with an aftermarket cooler (Arctic Cooling Accelero III), performs the same as a reference GTX 780 Ti, while running cooler and quieter, still cutting 25$ below the price of a GTX 780 and having 1GB VRAM more. Temperatures are what's keeping it slower, once aftermarket cooling comes into play, the card becomes a beast.

 

That's from a pure performance standpoint, now for the price. While the 290 series may not be the fastest cards, they cut close for 1/2 the price of a 780 Ti and offer best price/performance on the market. For someone willing to spend 1000$ on a card that may seem irrelevant, but looking at pure price/performance ratio, R9 290 wins by a large margin when compared to practically any card on the market right now.

 

GTX 780 Ti outperforms the R9 290, that's a fact, but Nvidia doesn't have anything with that amount of sheer power for the price. That's from my point of view though, I look at everything by seeing what do I get for the price, and a 15% performance doesn't justify a 300$ premium in my opinion, unless you really need the extra 15%.

 

Skyrim is particularly viscious on the CPU

Yes and no. You see, the game is vicious on the CPU because it uses two cores with the other two doing light tasks only, all the heavy stuff is on only two cores. ZeroSaber has an i5 3570K that has excellent per-core performance (though I don't understand the need for an unlocked CPU if he's not going to overclock), which means the game will run happily on it, it even runs smooth as butter on my FX 8320 (and also uses only 4 cores, two for heavy and two for light tasks).

 

If it were a multi-threaded game, it would be able to utilize all cores on the CPU, so the 80% load on two cores would become 10% load per-core on my octa-core, or 20% per-core on ZeroSaber's quad-core. But it's not multi-threaded, uses a lot of CPU cycles and is primarily designed to utilize only two threads.

 

Older CPUs will have problems with Skyrim, but any high-end Intel since the Westmere era and any high-end AMDs since Phenom II X4 (excluding Bulldozer FX-series, that was crap) will be able to run Skyrim smoothly.

 

Ya your right here, but the r290x are in the same price as the gtx780ti around 700$, but the r290 is a different story.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Thor.

[Werne]

Ya your right here, but the r290x are int he same price as the gtx780ti around 700$, but the r290 is a different story.

R9 290 and 290X cards are the same as FX 8320 and 8350 CPUs, same thing with lower frequency and a big difference in the price tag. Both R9 290X and FX 8350 are flagships, while FX 8320 and R9 290 are lower-binned flagships with a much lower price. Overclocked, they become one and the same with their flagship counterparts (unless you bought an unlucky chip, but that happens on flagships as well).

 

A stock R9 290 has 2-3% lower performance than a stock R9 290X which can be alleviated by raising the GPU/VRAM clocks a bit, then you get the R9 290X for 300$ less. If you're willing to invest 75$ and a bit of mounting time in an aftermarket cooler and overclock further, you get a card that competes with a stock 780 Ti in pure performance, for the price of a 780. R9 290X is the worst card on the market at the moment - you pay for royalties and get none.

 

Anyway thanks for the feedback it looks like I'll be going with the 780 ti, only question now is which model, this is the one I'm thinking:

 

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814487003

 

I'll probably deposit the money for it into my account tomorrow then place the order the next day or so after so if anyone has anything to say about the model of 780 ti there's still sometime before I'll be officially placing the order thanks again.

 

That EVGA is a good model, they make quality stuff, seems like it has good cooling too. It'll also look pretty good in your case, assuming the inside of the case is black and the CPU cooler is black (except aluminum fins if using air).

 

I didn't say I wasn't going to I just said I hadn't mainly because I know nothing at all about overclocking so I'm hesitant to mess around with it

Ah yes, I remember that feeling... you get over it fast.

 

It's a simple procedure, first you need an aftermarket cooler if you don't have one already, and good case airflow. Then it's +0.5 multi, fire up CoreTemp, 2h of Prime95, repeat all that until Prime95 fails, raise VCore, 2h Prime95, repeat everything until you hit a thermal wall. It's only complicated if you make it complicated. :thumbsup:

[Thor.]

The evga version is currently the only after market gtx780 ti cooler out there right now.

 

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487003

[Werne]

if Skyrim performance monitor is reporting CPU usage correctly then on average Skyrim uses around 50% of my CPU.

Skyrim alone uses 50%, you don't know how much CPU power does the rest of the stuff use. That 50% may mean two cores at 100% if it monitors overall CPU usage. And maybe Skyrim can't use more than 50% per-core since other tasks use up the rest of your CPU cycles. That's why I never use any of that crap like "Skyrim performance monitor", I measure total CPU usage on per-core basis, not just single-program usage.

 

Note that I have to use per-core monitoring due to having eight cores, otherwise my CPU usage would be reported as below 20% overall, yours would be off too if you use overall basis and not per-core since it's a multi-core CPU.

 

The evga version is currently the only after market gtx780 ti cooler out there right now.

 

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487003

*gasp* $800!? My entire PC cost less than that! :psyduck:

 

Anyway, that's why I told you to wait, there might be better aftermarket coolers on other boards. Same as I said not to judge the R9 series' temps and OC potential until there's aftermarket cooling, since high temps and low OC can and will be fixed once partners release their own heatsinks strapped to the board (and that was proven correct with mounting an AC Accelero on the card which gave it a large boost in temps, performance and OC capability).

 

ZeroSaber wants the card now, which is why I didn't tell him to wait, the card is going to perform the same anyway with only a slight difference in temperatures (unless some "uber OC" model comes out). But if I recall correctly, you're good with the current setup and are getting the card as "on the fly" upgrade while focusing on having low temperatures, so you can wait until more boards come out. Or get a board with reference cooling and strap an aftermarket cooler on it (if there is one), which is pretty efficient too.

[Thor.]

I'm still undecided, though by the time i get one, it'll be close to February at this rate. though the r290 with a aftermarket cooler seems about right like gigabyte or evga. I am betting next year for that.

Also when it comes to skyrim Werne you should be getting pretty quick load times, , i solved major lag issues and fixed afr crossfire mode, so I have zero lag or micro stuttering, around 40 to 60fps, depending where i am.

 

3 second load times with my ssd, just giving an example what to expect with a high end system. Though my radeon cards is my weak point. Thats not the reason why i am upgrading.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Thor.

[ZeroSaber39]

Well that's just great, I check my account to confirm my money is in before going to place the order and find Newegg is sold out so I'll have to wait.

 

 

That EVGA is a good model, they make quality stuff, seems like it has good cooling too. It'll also look pretty good in your case, assuming the inside of the case is black and the CPU cooler is black (except aluminum fins if using air)

Yeah I have a Rosewill Blackhawk gaming case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147107

 

As to my CPU cooler, it's a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099

 

 

Ah yes, I remember that feeling... you get over it fast.

 

It's a simple procedure, first you need an aftermarket cooler if you don't have one already, and good case airflow. Then it's +0.5 multi, fire up CoreTemp, 2h of Prime95, repeat all that until Prime95 fails, raise VCore, 2h Prime95, repeat everything until you hit a thermal wall. It's only complicated if you make it complicated. :thumbsup:

I guess just like how I used to feel about opening my computer case, when I look back on it it makes me wonder what was so scary about it. Well we'll see, right now I'm not sure if overclocking will even give me a noticeable performance increase for how I'm using my system right now as I said before if Performance Monitor is right then Skyrim only uses about 50% of my CPU on average.

 

 

*gasp* $800!? My entire PC cost less than that! :psyduck:

Tell me about it, if you find it painful to see then imagine how painful it is to hand the money over. Since I've started talking about getting a new GPU I've had a few console playing friends ask me how much money I've spent just to play a $60 game unfortunately there's just no explaining to them how Skyrim on PC is a totally different experience then on Console (I will never play another Elder Scrolls or Fallout game on console ever again).

 

 

ZeroSaber wants the card now, which is why I didn't tell him to wait, the card is going to perform the same anyway with only a slight difference in temperatures (unless some "uber OC" model comes out).

 

Damn Newegg, they better restock fast, the longer this takes the more I'm going to second guess going through with it. Especially since I have people telling me a new GPU won't solve my CTD issue, not that I expect CTDs to stop completely but I'm hoping it will help make them less common at least so that playing is fun and not an exercise in ripping my hair out part of me even wonders if using an SSD for my game drive will help with crashes but I might be grasping at straws, I love Skyrim and just want to play it but I can't play Vanilla Skyrim anymore, it doesn't even touch the modded experience. Anyway it was the review that Thor posted over in the other thread that sold me on the card.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68h_2FosGq0#t=0

 

The rumors going around about a possible 780 ti with more Vram makes me want to wait but even if it does come happen (which I'm doubtful) I'm sure the price will be ridiculous. Anyway if I'm gonna do this it needs to happen soon because the longer I have that money in my account the more I'm gonna want to cling to it. :unsure:

[Thor.]

I know what you mean :teehee:

[ZeroSaber39]

Well while I'm waiting to toss a bunch of money into my machine I just thought of something else that might be a dumb question but I might want to ask as it's something else I really don't know about. I've heard that a 600W PSU is recommended for the 780 Ti. Right now I have a Corsair 650W PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012) so I'm wondering if that should be enough or should I consider upping my PSU while I'm at it, my full system specs are:

 

OS: windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

Tower: Rosewill Blackhawk (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147107)

Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme6 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157295)

CPU: I5-357K (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099)

RAM: G.Skill Sniper gaming series 16DB(2x8GB) DDR3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231609)

OS Drive: Samsung 840 Series 120GB SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147188)

Game Drive: Western Digital Black 1TB HDD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533)

Storage Drive 1: Western Digital Green 3TB HDD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136874)

Storage Drive 2: Seagate Barracuda 3TB HDD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844)

CD/DVD Burner: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136254)

Flash Card Reader: (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820223103)

And of course I'm planning to put the 780 Ti in (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487003)

 

And as of this moment I'm not overclocking anything so while I'm at it does anyone think I might need more power after upgrading my card or see anything else on the hardware end that could be contributing to my Skyrim Crashes?