Modding EXALT

[Lad09]

4. WHY DO THEY NOT HAVE PLASMA?!

5. Upgrade their armor late game.

I have to admit I'm kinda ok that in terms of straight up weapon and armour development they peak out around the mid tier, since barring some good luck with cash and resources, XCOM starts having resource issues manufactuaring plasma weapons on their own, and without access to XCOM's resource and support base, EXALT would probably have even more issues. (though a slight buff to their weapons and HP to compensate for their inability to move up another tier wouldn't be minded.)

 

However, this should be made up for by EXALT having so many extreme gene mods it gives Vahlen this face: http://i.imgur.com/s7C5U.jpg

 

Also, aforementioned counters to some of XCOM's stuff. At the very least they should be able to throw some battlescanners around...though depending on how hard it would get the AI to do that it might be easier to just nerf Mimetic Skin. :/

[Tycus]

<..>

1. I'd make the comm arrays make them blind, if possible, so each unit is only aware of what it sees. - not gonna happen, because of AI,

2. As previously stated, treat new exalt troopers as newly discovered pods, allowing them to take cover or enter overwatch. - not just that, I would like to allow them actual turn

3. Boost their gene mods. If possible, I'd give them some random alien abilities at late game, to show how far they are willing to go (10% chance of Thin Man plague, anyone?) - new ablities - yes, some of more obsucre alien abilities - maybe, thin man posion and alike - no, just no

4. WHY DO THEY NOT HAVE PLASMA?! - +1 on that

5. Upgrade their armor late game. - maybe

6. Make the EXALT home base attack much, much harder (increase # of units per pod to 9, trigger every pod at start of the map. With above upgrades, should be hard) - pretty good idea

7. Possibly give EXALT MECS (extremely rare chance) - that is hardly possible to do

8. Give their operatives shotguns. - too bad there is no separate model of EXALT shotgun

8. Add Squad Sight to their elite snipers. (WARNING: WOULD CAUSE EVERY POD OF SNIPERS TO ACTIVATE SIMULTANEOUSLY) - no, it does not work like that (at least in EU it was), because I have given Cyberdiscs Squadsight, and they will activate normally; also LoS blockers;

9. Add Run & Gun to their elite operatives (no guarantee they'll use it, though) - hardly possible, because AI generally can't handle new active abilities;

10. Add Bullet Swarm to their elite heavies. - hmm, I'll give a try for this one, don't know if AI code robust is enough to handle it.

 

That'd make them a lot like facing an evil version of yourself - that was a general idea behind EXALT faction.

Edit: got ninja'd here.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Tycus

[Tycus]

<..>

Also, aforementioned counters to some of XCOM's stuff. At the very least they should be able to throw some battlescanners around...though depending on how hard it would get the AI to do that it might be easier to just nerf Mimetic Skin. :/

Already planned that in my mod, because how it works now just bugs me - I propose to change conceal-reveal mechanic of mimetic skin to be something like that: get revealed by any movement and weapon fire, get conceled on entering high cover, if not flanked and stay concealed, unless moving again or firing weapon.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Tycus

[Krazyguy75]

Howsabout we give exalt the skin mod that locates cloaked people on their snipers?

 

@Tycus's post about my post:

1. Yeah, that's an if possible.

2. That'd lead to rediculous amounts of death, as they'd shred you in the first turn by flanking your people before you could react. A solution I pose is to let them count as dashing when they enter, letting them have a higher chance of dodging initial overwatch. Could even give operatives Lightning Reflexes).

3. Thin man poison was more of a joke, the AI prolly couldn't handle it.

7. That's a stretch goal

8 (the second one =P). I could've sworn I'd seen something on that.

9. Yeah, that's a stretch goal. However, certain abilities can be used by AI that they wouldn't have normally (EX: MindControl (the player version of PsiControl) worked when I gave it to Sectoids, to the point where they spammed it)

10. The AI is far more robust than many people give it credit for. It can handle most new passives that I've given it so far. But we'd need to test it.

[Tycus]

@Krazyguy75

"Howsabout we give exalt the skin mod that locates cloaked people on their snipers?" - it would fit on their Elite Operatives better, I think, but I highly doubt, that AI can make intelligent use of it, unless this mod autoreveals cloaked units (has anybody tested that in multiplayer?) - so yeah, this totally can work.

<..>

"1. Yeah, that's an if possible" - I think my solution is a bit better (and lot easier to implement)

"2. That'd lead to rediculous amounts of death, as they'd shred you in the first turn by flanking your people before you could react. A solution I pose is to let them count as dashing when they enter, letting them have a higher chance of dodging initial overwatch. Could even give operatives Lightning Reflexes)" - actually, I don't believe that gonna happen (besides, don't leave your guys in easily flankable position), because AI is sort of restrained against taking offensive action versus XCOM troopers on their reveal turn (like when patrol of aliens stumble into you on aliens turn, worst they can do is enter overwatch, but I'm not 100% sure about it, so we will have to test it). Also, overwatch shots against dashing units actually have same penalty as normal ones (tooltip is a lie). And LR are overrated (especially in my mod because of reaction fire, and that is another reason I'm not particularly afraid of flanking action).

<..>

"8 (the second one =P). I could've sworn I'd seen something on that" - may I ask were?

"9. Yeah, that's a stretch goal. However, certain abilities can be used by AI that they wouldn't have normally (EX: MindControl (the player version of PsiControl) worked when I gave it to Sectoids, to the point where they spammed it)" - strange (it could not be that easy), I remember giving Sectoids Psi-panic and they were not using it, because use of Psi abilities require special Psi flag on a unit, and there is special sub-routine AI function, that controls use of all Psi abilities for all alien types.

"10. The AI is far more robust than many people give it credit for. It can handle most new passives that I've given it so far. But we'd need to test it" - yes, passive (also count automatic ones, like "Ready for Anything" perk) abilities is not a problem, like at all; it is active (that do require some sort of input before use) that AI generally cannot utilize - unless you replace one active ability with another and tweak use of new one.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Tycus

[Krazyguy75]

1. Sorry, what was your solution again?

2. There is a difference between, as I said, the discovery movement, and as you said, an actual turn. They can immediately go after you if they discovery you during your turn, but if they wander into your sight, that costs them a turn. However, that is a half action (either overwatch or movement) rather than a full turn (move and fire).

8. I don't recall, sorry. It may have just been speculation on how it might work that I'm remembering

9. Ah, I did the same thing, and yeah, they barely touched it, only using it twice in an entire campaign. Still don't know what made it trigger, it seemed to happen when 4 or more of my guys were in sight and some were overwatched and others were hunkered behind full cover. I don't expect them to know how to use all abilities, but they certainly have some ability to use specific ones. I save cheesed to save my life against them, 3 MC'd guys at any one time...

10. Bullet swarm is passive. It's whether they'll utilize it well that requires testing.

[Tycus]

@Krazyguy75

 

"1. Sorry, what was your solution again?"

<..>

Onto EXALT relays: imho they should just disable reinforcements of EXALT troops for couple of turns (so player would still have some incentive to hack those arrays, and have time to deal with current situation or prepare for next wave; and hack effects would be not as debilitating for EXALT troops)

"2. There is a difference between, as I said, the discovery movement, and as you said, an actual turn. They can immediately go after you if they discovery you during your turn, but if they wander into your sight, that costs them a turn. However, that is a half action (either overwatch or movement) rather than a full turn (move and fire)" - they actually get free action upon discovery, or when patrolling and full 2 action turn, but because of this AI restraint most aliens just skip rest of their turn/ their last action point, so it can be hardly noticeable, because only non-offensive action (other than movement) aliens can take is Mind Merge, Repair or Life leech: can be especially noticeable on chryssalids, which can run to you like across half of the map; at least this how it worked in EU, so unless they changed(*fixed*) it in EW it should still be the same.

"8. I don't recall, sorry. It may have just been speculation on how it might work that I'm remembering" - ok, then.

"9. Ah, I did the same thing, and yeah, they barely touched it, only using it twice in an entire campaign. Still don't know what made it trigger, it seemed to happen when 4 or more of my guys were in sight and some were overwatched and others were hunkered behind full cover. I don't expect them to know how to use all abilities, but they certainly have some ability to use specific ones. I save cheesed to save my life against them, 3 MC'd guys at any one time..." - I believe this happened because of quite common AI bug (when use of any abilities sectoids naturally posses have so low chances of success, so theirs usual abilities got filtered out because of negative AI score, and only action left for them to take is use of this new ability, that you have generously given them :thumbsup:

"10. Bullet swarm is passive. It's whether they'll utilize it well that requires testing" - aliens can totally use it (I have given that ability for Muton Elites, so they were shooting twice); just cannot use it very well (like shoot, then hide), because AI unaware of aliens having it - so it was like them shooting, then "hey, I can still shoot once more" and then shoot again; really it all depends on AI scores of those shots.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Tycus

[Amineri]

The code for aliens to use psi abilities is in the generic XGAIBehavior for the most part, not in alien unit-specific child classes. There is something weird with giving a special PsiAmp item to psionic units (including XCOM soldiers and Sectoids). This happens automatically in the background.

 

My guess as to why Sectoids weren't using many psionic abilities would be their extremely low vanilla will stat (10 will). Since Mind Control carries an inherent -30 will penalty Sectoids should barely be able to use it at all.

 

My idea is to make the mind merging actually grant the psionic ability as well as a boost in will to the recipient.

 

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All this is in contrast to an ability like the Thin Man Plague ability which is hard-coded into XGAIBehavior_ThinMan

[Tycus]

The code for aliens to use psi abilities is in the generic XGAIBehavior for the most part, not in alien unit-specific child classes. There is something weird with giving a special PsiAmp item to psionic units (including XCOM soldiers and Sectoids). This happens automatically in the background.

Wait, did I just get ninja'd here again? (because I have already like explained that; there is definitely something going wrong on this forum for me)

 

My idea is to make the mind merging actually grant the psionic ability as well as a boost in will to the recipient.

Wow, that sounds like pretty awesome idea, though I would like to limit sectoids psi-abilities to low-level ones, like Psi-Panic (because we already have sectoid commander for high-level ones).

Edited November 24, 2013 by Tycus

[Krazyguy75]

My guess as to why Sectoids weren't using many psionic abilities would be their extremely low vanilla will stat (10 will). Since Mind Control carries an inherent -30 will penalty Sectoids should barely be able to use it at all.

 

Ah, that'd explain it. This was during the period when I was making my truely impossible mod (150 hp sectopods anyone), and Sectoids had 100 will.

 

EDIT: Still doesn't explain why they didn't use PsiPanic. Also, does the AI work for both MindControl and PsiControl? Cause I was definitely using MindControl, which is the XCOM version.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Krazyguy75