The future of the Cyrodiilic Empire: a time of war.

[ChalkLine]

I've been thinking one some stuff, and I think Oblivion is set in one of those pivotal moments when everything afterwards is very different to before.

 

The death of Uriel Septim and all his heirs, as well as the imperial regalia being destroyed, means that for all practical purposes there will be no emperor in the short term. If the council want to have a empire-wide war, they can just elect someone themselves (probably Occato) and see how that goes over with the counts and provincial kings. The new emperor has to be palatable to enough to these powerful people, and that takes time to organise and get right. Time the council does not have.

 

The reason the council has no time is because the counts, the provincial kings, the legionaries, in fact everyone, do not pledge allegiance to the empire, but to the emperor. This is why it's important to have an heir-designate, so the allegiance has a smooth, seamless transition. No emperor, no attachment and no requirement to obey, and especially no taxes.

 

The imperial legions are supported by taxes, so they now have no income. Imperial legions in our history had a reputation as king-makers, which is why the Romans didn't allow them in Italy and I'm guessing why they are so thin on the ground in Cyrodiil. When their pay gets cut off, they tend to march on the capital and make their commander the emperor. This will not go down well with those powerful people I mentioned earlier. There is a countdown running; get a new emperor before the legions make their own.

 

The problem with just letting that happen is there is no one legion commander. Each province has its own Knight of the Imperial Dragon who runs the legions there, and is probably supported by the local king. This king, who had the commander appointed probably because they got on together, would undoubtedly like his particular Knight of the Imperial Dragon made emperor. So the provinces may well go to war to see who gets the imperial diadem. This war would probably be fought in Cyrodiil, as the holding the capitol is part of the requirements to be emperor. The various Knights of the Imperial Dragon cannot just march in, then decide if they want to emperor; they must declare themselves before moving. They too are under pressure, if they don't go for the imperial purple they could get sidelined by thier own troops (usually in a grisly and final manner) and another candidate for the throne declared. If they move, and if one does they all tend to have a got at it, then the province they guarded usually falls into chaos as they go. If they all stay and no emperor is appointed quickly, then they get starved of funds and disintegrate.

 

In Cyrodiil itself the various counties are by no means united. Now their liege lord the emperor is gone and no legal replacement coming along in a hurry, they are all equally at the top of the imperial heap legally. As the various personalities are not really compatible, you can probably expect a war between at least two of the counties. Bruma and Leyawiin are united in a dynasty, something that must concern the other counts. The idea of Count Janus Hassildor becoming emperor is kinda fun to think of. AT least there'd be none of this succession problem for a long time.

 

The Imperial City itself is an imperial legion garrison, and it's at least as large as one if not two or three county armies. They may be the power that stops the council just getting bullied by a local count, so there's another delay there.

 

What about other imperial organisations?

The chapel seems to be not set up like a historical analogue, so its not likely to be able to make much impression. The major chapels seem to be possessions of a count each, and there's no gig cathedral city to make a Bishop-Prince like Germany had on the Rhine in some places. The church looks like it will be a passenger in this new era.

The Mage's Guild is a unifying force, apart from one little problem; it's just been gutted by an internal war with the necromancers. Traven is dead, the new arch mage is very new and pretty unknown. In fact, that person is probably a Johnny(or Janey)-come-lately with less than two months membership behind them! Traven had already severed the university from the county guilds and then caused a civil war, so the Mage's Guild has a lot of rebuilding to undergo before it's going to be a player.

Same with the Fighter's Guild. The almost obliteration of the guild by the Blackwood Company is slowly being rebuilt by the new guildmaster. Also, the guild cannot by law engage in contracts that violate the laws or the customs of the empire. Interfering in a succession must be right up there as a violation of those particular laws.

The Thief's Guild isn't going to be unduly concerned. if the counties, the provinces and other regions become hostile they just become insular. There's already multiple guildmasters, it just means you won't have to go all the way to Bruma to access you first fence.

 

The future?

I think the council will be paralysed. Occato did sweet b*gger all about the Oblivion Crisis because the provinces were falling apart. The Nords are attacking the imperial garrison at Solsthiem, Morrowind is convulsed in fighting and a lot of other external stuff is going on. It's obvious that the council - the only body able to make a decision - is not handling the situation.

War is the result.

You might see everyone joining up great houses such as the PC did in Morrowind. There will be no imperial law, so you adhere to the powerful individual who will further your interests and protect you from everyone else. These powerful individuals use that loyalty to bid for more power, and this power is always at the expense of someone else.

[BossDweebe]

Hi there Chalkie - You old political stirrer....

So is this a life imitating art imitating life concept is it ?

 

The polies promise tax cuts to get votes then let infrastructure

lapse and promise more tax cuts next election and then sell off public

assets to cover that, all in the name of competition.

Result - rotten infrastructure and out of control corporations.

 

"The church looks like it will be a passenger in this new era."

Of course - "god is dead". Except in those areas where is all too alive and well.

 

The fighters guild - local militia - vs. gun control. Fewer murders (with guns anyway),

more difficult to stand up against tyrants as well.

 

Provincial Kings - Certainly a problem in those parts of Cyrodiil where family, tribal, clan

ties, and resulting special interest make it hard to form a concenssis (sp?) government,

and thus a workable government.

 

Not to worry mate. She'll be right. Besides, I got mine Jack.

OK mate - enough realism for today - think I'll go for a ride on my Unicorn....

[ChalkLine]

Nah mate. I'm a history grad, and the fall of the Septims just reminds me a lot of the end of the Carolingian empire. If it's got any relevance to today's situation it's just because there's nothing new under the sun.

 

Modern concepts don't work too well in settings like this, because we moderns are very individualistic and pre-moderns were anything but. While this is fantasy and anything goes, it makes for an interesting setting if we have a play with some of these old historical facts.

 

Take going to court for example.

Say the player has to go to court. Rather than a judge and jury, he'd just front the local count who'd ask for oaths of innocence from the two sides and thier supporters. The most oaths wins. It's that simple, but it's not justice as we know it. Of course, the player in Oblivion could probably get most of Cyrodiil to support him if you play the good guy path in the game. In that case, the count would probably just plump for trial by combat to make it simple. The best way to win a court case was to have a bigger, tougher lord than the other guy. The count of Bravil might have a heart attack if Count Hassildor fronted up halfway through the case and demanded you get let off. This is where I'm talking about the failure of imperial law, as the central courts start to disappear and the county courts take over. Imagine being an Argonian and going to court in Leyawiin after the count and countess decide they have nothing to fear from imperial law.

 

I really, really liked the House Affiliation concept in Morrowind, it suits the setting perfectly. In that you work to make your lord more powerful, until after a long period you end up to being that lord with your own noble house behind you, working to make you more powerful! It really seats the player into the setting.

[BossDweebe]

(A) If it's got any relevance to today's situation it's just because there's nothing new under the sun.

 

(B)Take going to court for example.

Say the player has to go to court. Rather than a judge and jury, he'd just front the local count who'd ask for oaths of innocence from the two sides and thier supporters. The most oaths wins. .

 

Part A: Ain't that the truth, but the spin doctors would like us to believe otherwise.

Part B: So that's where the term "Bloody Oath" comes from ?

Part C: Part C ? That must be where I introduced my '70's Left Wing Pinko concepts into your dialouge.

Just having some fun.... ;)

 

I hadn't heard that about Morrowind, but it shows why some folks think it more immersive.

I could almost be tempted to give Morrowind a whirl, but....

[Skolhamarr]

chalkline I do commend you on your historical knowledge

 

lets take my theory: Elder Council splits the empire into 2 parts to better control it. They also create a new administrative system: Tetrarchy, Each Emperor was then to adopt a young colleague, or Chancellor, to share in the rule and eventually to succeed the senior partner. With a new capital in the eastern faction, "the imperial race" start to become 2 different cultures over time reflecting the split. How ever you split the empire, there is country or race that has more claim to the empire Skyrim and the nords. I view the Skyrim as collection of nation Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Prussia, what was Holy Roman Empire, and Austria -Hungary Empire...It is suiting to say that a type of House of Habsburg would be there

 

Perhaps there is House of Habsburg in Tamreil, has gave some the greatest leaders. The Septim, being aparts of this house, Originally from skyrim

 

 

As I think on this more, House of Habsburg important royal house of Europe and is best known as supplying all of the formally elected Holy Roman Emperors as well as rulers of Spain and the Austrian Empire. Originally from Switzerland, the dynasty first reigned in Austria, which they ruled for over six centuries, but a series of dynastic marriages brought Burgundy, Spain, Bohemia, Hungary and other territories into the inheritance.