CPU & Builds

[Ilrita]

Hello communty,

 

I'm looking for compatible CPUs for my board. When bought it I was told I needed a Sandy Bridge CPU to work with the mobo or else receive a broken board upon boot (see discussion for board on Newegg for examples). With a Sandy Bridge the mobo can be flashed to support the other cpus (Ivy Bridge) but to do that, I need a Sandy Bridge CPU. lol

 

So I'm here to ask, what can I do? I already bought the board a while back and now I can't find Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz Quad Core Processor that would have worked with my board. Are there other Sandy Bridge CPUs my board can use? Or should I just buy a new motherboard and if so, what are good but cheap (nothing over 100$ if possible) boards?

 

I've only just got into the computer building so I'm still pretty new to all of this, but I am learning! :D

 

Motherboard;
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SEZWBK/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Computer I'm looking to build:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Bh26

 

Thanks for any and all help guys! Appreciate it! :thumbsup:

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ilrita

[Werne]

And that's why you never buy boards or any system parts a while before you buy the CPU, you buy them together. That way you avoid these kinds of problems from the start.

 

Anyway, the CPU support depends on the BIOS version, since you can't boot the board, you can't check the BOIS version. If it doesn't support Ivy, that means you're pretty much screwed with that board, so here's my suggestion - buy the cheapest possible used Sandy Bridge Pentium or Celeron you can find, boot the system, flash BIOS, sell that CPU for the same amount of cash you paid for it (or keep it around just in case). That's the path of least expense since used Sandy Bridge Pentiums/Celerons can be bought dirt-cheap (they cost 10-15$ around here).

 

Another way around that would be buying a new board. But that depends on what CPU you intend to use for it (an unlocked model or not) and will you be overclocking or not. Though I guess you won't, anything under ~120$ is not considered good for overclocking on Intel platforms.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Werne

[Ilrita]

Thank you for the reply, Werne

 

Alright, I had suspisions that I had screwed myself over. The board was so cheap I had to get it then and I thought the Intel i5-2500K would still be around, which it isn't.

 

I guess I have no other option but to buy a new board. Do you have any suggestions for the cheapest board capable of overclocking? Otherwise this is what I came up with. Will it be suitable for Skyrim and Photoshopping (as well as making light video games)?

 

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ilrita/saved/30K5

 

*though I hear that CPU has OC and overheating problems...

[Werne]

That board won't OC too well, but then again, neither will the CPU with a 212 Evo since those things get smoking hot. For any noticeable OC with Ivy Bridge and Haswell you either need to de-lid it (voids warranty and you can destroy the chip if you're not careful), and/or get high-end air cooling, possibly even liquid (bad TIM in those), you'd also need a better mobo (or you'd burn out the VRMs, VRM heatsink on that board looks like a piece of crap). But seeing as how you look at a 100$ mobo, I doubt you can afford to spend 100-200$ extra on cooling equipment alone, and another 100$ extra for the motherboard.

 

As for the CPU itself, i5 is good for older games like Skyrim, decent in Photoshop. i7 would help for Photoshop (PS is multi-threaded) and next-gen though, but it ain't worth the money in my book. That i5 is currently the best bang-for-buck you can get for what you're going to use it for, but I'd personally pair it with an ASUS Z87-A, VRM heatsinks seems easier to cool and from what I've heard, the board seems pretty solid even though it's an entry-level one.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Werne

[Ilrita]

Hello,

 

Okay, that's the kind of stuff I need to learn to save myself from future mistakes and headaches. lol

 

Okay, what about this build?

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ilrita/saved/30Ny

or

http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Ilrita/saved/30Ow

 

If it isn't much for the buck I'm paying, may I ask you for a build that can do as I need (PS CS5 by the way) for around 700-750$? I already have monitors, HDDs, DVD drives, Windows and Ubuntu and right now I do have three GBs of DDR3 ram. I even had a GPU to use if I need to wait up on the GPU, which would be pretty easy to get later on I do believe.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ilrita

[Werne]

CS5? Not sure if that'll use the extra 4 threads i7 brings into play, I think CS6 will. i7 is a step up from i5 in some regards and will come in handy with newer generation of games which will likely utilize 8 cores/threads. But personally, if you're willing to spend that much money on a PC, I'd rather go with the i5 you posted earlier and a Radeon 7950, I don't think a few seconds in Photoshop matter that much unless you do professional work, a 7950 would bring more game performance in Skyrim than an i7 will since Skyrim can only use 4 threads. i5 may not be so future-proof though.

 

I was assuming you have a tight budget (like 400-500$ max or so) due to your motherboard selection which is why I didn't even suggest anything like an i7 or a better card, but it seems you don't.

 

By the way, if you do have some budget constraints limiting your selection and want multi-threading (for being future-proof or for PS), try considering AMD's octa-core FX lineup. The 8350 does very well in Photoshop due to it's 8 cores (performs about the same as i7 3770K), it has an unlocked multiplier (can be overclocked easily) and it costs as much as an i5 which may allow for a better graphics card in your budget. OC-friendly AM3+ boards tend to cost the same as Intel's 1155/1150. While it doesn't do as well as Intel in older games like Skyrim (weaker per-core performance), it'll run it at 60FPS even when the CPU is at stock Turbo speed, in newer games like Crisis 3 it has similar performance to the Ivy Bridge/Haswell i7s. Do note that AMD CPUs don't play well with Crossfire/SLI so if you intend to Crossfire another card in your PC, ignore the AMD CPUs.

 

While considering an AMD for gaming may seem laughable to some, the octa-core FX-series are formidable CPUs for the price. And yes, they do need aftermarket cooling as well, they don't have crappy TIM under their IHS (they are soldered) but they do draw more power than Intel CPUs which means they do heat up under load.

 

 

 

Now for the rest of your post...

 

Windows will likely need to be reinstalled, it doesn't like hardware transfers. If it manages to boot, you'll need to re-evaluate the license (happens when you change the mobo), shouldn't be much of a bother I believe. I personally never transferred Windows to new hardware, I just reinstall it, so I can't help with that.

 

Ubuntu, that should go relatively smooth. You'll likely need to reset the network interface to accept the transfer, unless it recognizes your new network as eth1 instead of eth0 in which case you don't need to do anything. If it's an older Ubuntu, like 12.04.1 and older, Xorg may have problems with your card since it'll run on an old version of radeon that doesn't support the 7xxx series, newer Xorg/kernel versions shouldn't have problems (like Raring and Saucy backports on 12.04). Oh, and make sure to remove proprietary AMD/Nvidia drivers before the transfer and comment modules loaded by lm-sensors in /etc/modules (if you use lm-sensors).

Edited December 1, 2013 by Werne

[Ilrita]

I have a price range of about 700$, pushing it about 750$.

 

You mean the Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor and not the one I posted on the first post, right? As the later can't seemed to be found for anything cheaper than about 350$. Which I thought was a bad idea...?

 

I don't think I mean to crossfire/SLI at all. I won't want to be having a seriously high-end gaming computer or ever forseeable in the future become such a hardcore and heated PC gamer that I would spend 1000$ on (unless I had the extra cash). Just something that can get me playing games decently at medium or high quality and will handle my PS work (I create maps and commission art on the side), and handle my gentle game making softwares like RM XP. So AMD items aren't a problem to me except that I sometimes hear they aren't worth the money, but I noticed most of that is from people who didn't know what they were doing.

 

So, here my build updated;

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor

GPU: Radeon 7950 (if need be, the HD 7870 if it is the better choice)
PSU: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory

MOBO: MSI Z87-G41 PC Mate ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
MOBO2: Asus Z87-PRO (V EDITION) ATX LGA1150 Motherboard*

*considering this one

 

But if you could make a build list of exactly what you think is the best choice (AMD or Intel) with the partspicker or a small worded list like the above, I'd really appreciate it. :)

 

Oh, yea, I know about the reinstallation thing for Windows. Tedious work, especially considering support is terrible. I could never get the transfer to work though, always would reject my keys and I would have to sit on the phone for hours. I prefer reinstalling as well.

 

As for Ubuntu, thanks for the information. Normally getting Xorg and the like running promply and properly is easy enough (I currently have a GeForce) but I was worried getting the GPU drivers for any of the listed above would make for a hassel.

[Werne]

You're on the very limit, i7 is an expensive processor and usually goes in builds that are 900$ and up, you can cram it in but you'd be sacrificing the graphics card. And as I said, 7950 will bring better game performance than an i7, unless we're talking about BF4 or Crysis 3 and such. Anyway, this is what I can think of right now within the 700$ budget...

 

Intel build - i5 4670K, CM 212 EVO cooler, Sapphire Radeon 7950, SeaSonic 650W PSU - 699$

AMD build - FX 8350, Thermaltake NiC C4 cooler, Sapphire Radeon 7950, SeaSonic 650W PSU - 693$

 

I went for a SeaSonic PSU in the two above (and in my own PC) since those are quality boxes, costs the same as the one you chose if bought from Newegg. I also went with G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 RAM modules in both builds since they are cheaper than Corsair Vengeance and not bad at all. Cooler differentiates since the AMD build allowed for 20$ more to be spent on cooling while still being under 700$. Both are formidable builds and would allow for overclocking.

 

OS, reinstall Windows. On Ubuntu, remove Nvidia graphics driver, comment modules you load up manually in /etc/modules (not all, just those added post-install by programs or yourself), and you won't have any issues with the hardware switch. I transferred Debian 7, Ubuntu Saucy (beta at the time) and Arch that way, no problems.

 

 

 

Now for the "AMD vs Intel" part...

 

Intel has an advantage in certain regards. Older games are a prime example, Intel makes them fly because those games use 2 cores, some 3 or 4, and Intel processors have powerful per-core performance. Skyrim uses 2 cores for heavy work and another 2 for light tasks, so an Intel CPU will run it faster due to ~40-50% more powerful core. A single Intel core will do more work per cycle than a single AMD core, that much is true. 3D modeling is also a great example, sculpting is a single-threaded process where an AMD CPU can't work as well unless it's overclocked.

 

On the other hand, AMD processors thrive in applications and games that are multithreaded and can take full advantage of the processor (all cores). In Photoshop, difference between an FX 8350 and i7 3770K is 1 second on a ~1m20s task, that's ~1.3% difference (in AMD's favor). Crysis is an excellent example too, where an FX 8350 @4.6GHz trails only 1-3 frames behind an i7 4770K @4.4GHz. It has problems with Crossfire/SLI in Crysis, gives only a slight improvement over a single-card setup. Skyrim, a stock FX 8350 will run it at ~75-80FPS average, while a stock i5 4670K will run it at ~110-115FPS average, so it's a bit behind Intel in that regard. Upgrade path is a good thing about AMD too, newer CPUs work on older mobos (and vice versa) since socket 939 (except APUs, those have a different socket).

 

Overall, both Intel and AMD will run games at a good framerate, Skyrim with VSync means that both builds will run it at 60FPS. AMD may dip below 60 in certain situations because of it's lower averages and minimums, but that's something that gets remedied when overclocking comes into play (depends on which frequency you OC it to). Some games/software that needs per-core power and/or uses a small amount of threads (1-2) will have problems with an AMD CPU, those are becoming rare but they still aren't extinct (Starcraft II for example).

 

So to sum up the pros and cons of both:

 

--Intel pros

-higher per-core performance

-lower power consumption

-mobos have good features

-newer manufacturing process

 

--Intel cons

-price

-bad TIM (heat)

-motherboard prices

-multi-threaded CPUs are expensive

-unlocked CPUs cost extra

-platform longevity

 

--AMD pros

-price

-multi-threading

-platform longevity

-motherboard prices

-no premium on unlocked CPUs

 

--AMD cons

-bad per-core performance

-higher power consumption (heat)

-mobos lack some newer features

-older manufacturing process

 

It's all up to you, weigh in the facts, what you need and what you don't, then base your selection on that. Both FX 8350 and i5 4670K are great CPUs for the price and each has it's strengths and weaknesses, the choice depends solely on what features you want/need more.

 

And the above two sentences are why people who buy FX 83xx yap, they expect it to perform like an i7 in every regard for a lot less money (they usually call themselves "hardcore gamers"), and when it fails to do what they want it to do, they yap like crazy. Simplified - you can't have something for nothing, some things have to be sacrificed whichever path you take. :smile:

[FMod]

So I'm here to ask, what can I do? I already bought the board a while back and now I can't find Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz Quad Core Processor that would have worked with my board. Are there other Sandy Bridge CPUs my board can use?

There's plenty of i5-2500K parts still around. Maybe you're looking in the wrong places?

 

It's not food, it's not a toothbrush and it's not even an undergarment - a used CPU is just as good as a new one.

 

Your board has a Z68, so it can also use all other i3-2xxx, i5-2xxx, and also i5-3570K or generally i5-3xxx - any Ivy Bridge. It's MSI Z68-GA43, which is known as a solid board.

 

With Haswell being a flop, don't waste your money. Just find a used i5-2500K or 2550K or 2600K, or a new Ivy Bridge like 3570K - plenty of them around.

 

They are actually listed as supported: http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z68A-G43--B3-.html#/?div=CPUSupport

[Ilrita]

Hello,

 

Thanks for the information Werne, it has been very helpful, especially for a non-computer savvy person like myself (least, I'm trying to be savvy lol). The Intel con for heat and the platform longetivty worries me, especially if I'm understanding that "platform longevity" means how long its life will last. But then AMD has a higher power consumption so it still makes heat, and it has older manufacturing process.

 

Overall I can't see a big enough difference between the two to say one is better than the other (in my opinion). AMD's cons aren't so many and with good cooling the heat wouldn't be a problem, and I don't play much so power consumption also wouldn't be much of a problem to me. But that whole "older boards and new CPUs/reverse" almost makes AMD worth it. To me that is a pretty good deal even with such a drop of such FPS, which wouldn't be seen by me. And I'm guessing this "multithreaded" is something seen/needed by newer applications and games and means it makes use of all its cores at once while Intel uses them in seperate groups? Overcloaking at that point--if I get it--would make AMD a better choice in the long run. Plus, I'm seeing less reports of RMA and the like on the AMD build...this is a tough decision. lol

 

I'm going to send both these builds to my building partner and we'll make a decision together (more of a gift, so these lists are more like a follow along). :smile:

 

Thanks Werne, I appreciate all the insightful help! I'll let this thread know what happens and what direction we took.

 

*and I was actually looking for a good SeaSonic PSU, so adding it is fine to me. And it is modular! The reported RMAs are about the same as Cosair too, so no worries from me.

 

 

 

 

So I'm here to ask, what can I do? I already bought the board a while back and now I can't find Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz Quad Core Processor that would have worked with my board. Are there other Sandy Bridge CPUs my board can use?

There's plenty of i5-2500K parts still around. Maybe you're looking in the wrong places?

 

It's not food, it's not a toothbrush and it's not even an undergarment - a used CPU is just as good as a new one.

 

Your board has a Z68, so it can also use all other i3-2xxx, i5-2xxx, and also i5-3570K or generally i5-3xxx - any Ivy Bridge. It's MSI Z68-GA43, which is known as a solid board.

 

With Haswell being a flop, don't waste your money. Just find a used i5-2500K or 2550K or 2600K, or a new Ivy Bridge like 3570K - plenty of them around.

 

They are actually listed as supported: http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z68A-G43--B3-.html#/?div=CPUSupport

 

 

I have looked on Newegg, TigerDirect and Amazon. I can find them but they are priced at around 350$, which is really expensive and made me think that it would be better to get a different more powerful set up. But if you have links I'd appreciate a share. :) and I don't like buying computer parts used. I bought two CPUs for my current computer and each of them ended up dying in less than a month. Without warranty or support I wouldn't want to take the chance spending 100$ on an item.

 

And my board cannot, out of the box, take Ivy Bridges, only Sandy Bridge CPUs. I bought this board knowing it was a sturdy board, but the prices of good and compatible CPUs is marked almost 400$ on most the sites I find that still carries them new.

 

And I have been looking for other Sandy Bridge CPUs to replace the i5-2500k but I can't find any on the internet. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't find the info on each CPU to tell if it is a Sandy Bridge or something else--as anything else will kill the board without a flash to the BIOS.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Ilrita