Intentional strabismus (cross eyed) effect on eyes, how - if possible?

[RaidersClamoring]

A slight strabismus can look interesting and even handsome. I'd like to recreate it for looksmenu somehow. Is it possible?

 

 

I will have to explore this mostly myself so unless someone has a complete method, I'd like to know:

 

What kind of rotation and/or mirroring, if any, will the engine use to apply the textures to the right and left eye respectively?

 

1. Is the texture placed as-is on one eye and then mirrored on the other?

Or is it instead rotated 180 degs?
Is it not doing any such operation at all but simply placing it on both both eyes as is?

2. What happens if the texture has large excess surface area width-wise? Will it go around the back, return to the front again and overwrite itself horribly?

 

3. Will a texture that's too big shrink to fit, horribly?

 

If 2 and 3 is false and either 1a or 1b is true I bet I can create this effect by just creating a wider texture with two irises carefully placed for an aesthetic offset.

[Blinxys]

It's an illusion. It's a real effect, but only because of how the eyes' orbit/line of vision functions.

The far eye has to turn more [inward] to effectively see "across".

This can be observed IRL.

 

How the game deals with it is probably more rudimentary in eye/head tracking but has to be principally similar in effect.

Otherwise, generally being only one eye texture, it is probably just mapped twice. You'd likely have to duplicate, and rotate the base eyeball nif(s), insert where needed.

There are a few eye textures that have different colored irises, they would probably provide the most insight. :geek:

[South8028]

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/66047

in the looks menu, this is probably difficult to implement. But there are ready-made eye sliders in sam. I don't know for sure, but most likely the eye morphs will work until you reload the level, or reset the mfg in the slm player, or the morph tag in the animations. For example, many mixamo animations reset facial expressions to neutral. Once I wanted to make a new head for a custom body, but I could not find any manuals on this topic. Therefore, I do not know how the bones of facial morphs, mfg, eyes, mouth, etc. are implemented.

[Blinxys]

@Raiders:
MFG Morph List Is something you can work off of, totally forgot about it. :blush:
Have additional notes on it, but Excel tables don't translate well here. :yucky:
Unsure from what I've seen if AAF is necessarily necessary to implement or just a modder's [preffered] method.
Suppose somewhere there is a place you can lock in a facial expression and call it by keyword per 'nilla. :unsure:
Edit: Think it all has to be in the eye tracking mechanic instead...

@South8028 Mixamo, Ha! :D thanks for the flashbacks to days and years of Poser. (All dressed up and nowhere to go)... :cool:

Edit: I Stand corrected, as it appears none of these affect the eyes directly :pinch: , interesting info to supplement knowledgebase though. :geek:

Console Command: "mfg morphs <morph ID> <morph intensity>"

Example: mfg morphs 2 100

More Mouth Morph Intensity: First, enter the jaw open morph and hit 'Enter' then type: "mfg swap 2"

# Part Side Portion Action 0 Brow Squeeze 1 Jaw Forward 2 Jaw Open 3 Brow Left Outer Up 4 Cheek Left Up 5 Frown Left 6 Jaw Left 7 Lip Left Corner In 8 Lip Left Corner Out 9 Eye Lid Left Lower Down 10 Eye Lid Left Lower Up 11 Lip Left Lower Down 12 Lip Left Lower Up 13 Brow Left Middle Down 14 Brow Left Middle Up 15 Nose Left Up 16 Brow Left Outer Down 17 Smile Left 18 Eye Lid Left Upper Down 19 Lid Left Upper Up 20 Lip Left Upper Down 21 Lip Left Upper Up 22 Lip Lower Funnel 23 Lip Roll Lower In 24 Lip Roll Lower Out 25 Pucker 26 Brow Right Outer Up 27 Cheek Right Up 28 Frown Right 29 Jaw Right 30 Lip Right Corner In 31 Lip Right Corner Out 32 Eye Lid Right Lower Down 33 Eye Lid Right Lower Up 34 Lip Right Lower Down 35 Lip Right Lower Up 36 Brow Right Middle Down 37 Brow Right Middle Up 38 Nose Right Up 39 Brow Right Outer Down 40 Smile Right 41 Eye Lid Right Upper Down 42 Eye Lid Right Upper Up 43 Lip Right Upper Down 44 Lip Right Upper Up 45 Sticky Lips 46 Lip Upper Funnel 47 Lip Roll Upper In 48 Lip Roll Upper Out

 

(It looked fine in the edit box, but it didn't make it well through processing at all) Grr! :verymad:

Edited December 31, 2022 by Blinxys

[South8028]

@Raiders:

MFG Morph List Is something you can work off of, totally forgot about it. :blush:

Have additional notes on it, but Excel tables don't translate well here. :yucky:

Unsure from what I've seen if AAF is necessarily necessary to implement or just a modder's [preffered] method.

Suppose somewhere there is a place you can lock in a facial expression and call it by keyword per 'nilla. :unsure:

Edit: Think it all has to be in the eye tracking mechanic instead...

 

@South8028 Mixamo, Ha! :D thanks for the flashbacks to days and years of Poser. (All dressed up and nowhere to go)... :cool:

 

Edit: I Stand corrected, as it appears none of these affect the eyes directly :pinch: , interesting info to supplement knowledgebase though. :geek:

 

Console Command: "mfg morphs <morph ID> <morph intensity>"

Example: mfg morphs 2 100

 

More Mouth Morph Intensity: First, enter the jaw open morph and hit 'Enter' then type: "mfg swap 2"

 

# Part Side Portion Action 0 Brow Squeeze 1 Jaw Forward 2 Jaw Open 3 Brow Left Outer Up 4 Cheek Left Up 5 Frown Left 6 Jaw Left 7 Lip Left Corner In 8 Lip Left Corner Out 9 Eye Lid Left Lower Down 10 Eye Lid Left Lower Up 11 Lip Left Lower Down 12 Lip Left Lower Up 13 Brow Left Middle Down 14 Brow Left Middle Up 15 Nose Left Up 16 Brow Left Outer Down 17 Smile Left 18 Eye Lid Left Upper Down 19 Lid Left Upper Up 20 Lip Left Upper Down 21 Lip Left Upper Up 22 Lip Lower Funnel 23 Lip Roll Lower In 24 Lip Roll Lower Out 25 Pucker 26 Brow Right Outer Up 27 Cheek Right Up 28 Frown Right 29 Jaw Right 30 Lip Right Corner In 31 Lip Right Corner Out 32 Eye Lid Right Lower Down 33 Eye Lid Right Lower Up 34 Lip Right Lower Down 35 Lip Right Lower Up 36 Brow Right Middle Down 37 Brow Right Middle Up 38 Nose Right Up 39 Brow Right Outer Down 40 Smile Right 41 Eye Lid Right Upper Down 42 Eye Lid Right Upper Up 43 Lip Right Upper Down 44 Lip Right Upper Up 45 Sticky Lips 46 Lip Upper Funnel 47 Lip Roll Upper In 48 Lip Roll Upper Out

 

(It looked fine in the edit box, but it didn't make it well through processing at all) Grr! :verymad:

thanks, I know how to do it in the console. This can even be done directly in hkx by creating a tag with a facial expression (how this is implemented, for example, in sc sex animations, descriptions are in the f4ak manual). I talked about the game mechanics of facial morphs in nif, tri and managing the bones of the face. I know that people who tried to create a new head for fo4 (for example, to migrate the neck seam) were not able to correctly transfer the facial morphs. For this reason, we still use a vanilla low poly head with a separate nape mesh and a low poly and poorly placed neck seam.I spoke about the desire to find such manuals. Mixamo animations have long been (about 3 years ago) exported in havok, to fo4. I don't know where to find them now, maybe on the nexus. I have them all, ~2k animations. Many mixamo animations are much better than vanilla animations. I like them very much. Edited December 31, 2022 by South8028

[Blinxys]

@Raiders

This will get you halfway there:

Extended Facial Sculpting - now with 90 percent less beta (You can pivot the eye/socket region x/y/z).

I was messing with it the other day and saw it came close to what you were asking for.

There is an unofficlal update I just noticed here. Not required but gives male and female functionality (not either/or). :dance:

 

Nothing seems to give much direct access to the eyeball or alignment in game that I can tell.

Like I said I think it has something to do with player head/eye tracking if anything.

Unsure if its baked into the animation or something external can even govern the eyes routines.

As I have (on account of this post) noticed eye movements, but they all seem to be "locked in sequencing".

 

@South8028

Sprint Breathing Facial Expressions runs on top of AAF (probably used access predefined file).

 

"I talked about the game mechanics of facial morphs in nif, tri and managing the bones of the face."

Could you expand on this point?

 

What is f4ak, or is that the ck (creation kit) by a different nomenclature? Not picking on language or anything here, I just want to make sure I didn't miss out on something else, again. (FOMOment) :unsure:

BTW: Got nothing against Mixamo directly, interesting it's in Havok now. That's sort of what I was saying about "all dressed up and nowhere to go", I got there too early for it to be much use at that time. :no:

Mixamo->Havok->FO4? ??? That'd be a really awesome collection! If it was out there; I would get it, could it be posted as a modders' resource. If so, you should. :thumbsup:

Oh! I know what you are talking about, I got them all pre havok conversion as hkx files! Man that $ht was SLOW to render back when. :nuke: Prohibitively slow.

 

What's your take on the hi-poly face mod? Seems more trouble than it's worth to me, and have a problem with accompanying "proportional" mod, not in principle, but execution.

 

Also, got a chance to "Try Cantaur", inconclusive results, mixed reviews. Tried to used Discrete Skeleton and Unique Player, might have been OTT (over the top) mislaid my tracks kind of issues. On the plus side, textures were nice, and head/neck wrist seam clean (as CBBE), the bone fixes were in place. On the downside, Body form was rather heavyset, did not put in neg sliders mod just to see. Zerosliders was within reasonable, but still strange-ish. Installed CBBE but had no presets for some reason, so there was clothes on/off body mismatch but that was on my end for sure. :blush:

 

Gonna call it a wash for time being and address it again after a few other trials trail-blazing in other directions.

FYI The skeleton is very heavy in game BTW. A noticeable graphic performance hit on integrated GPU, not like that will always be a problem, just very apparent in current state of build. I understand why it is so intensive, (I commented on all the points earlier). just thought you should be aware if you were ever to consider setting out in the wild. :wink:

[South8028]

I mean, I don't know how face morphs are organized. When you build a face in the looks menu, you use morphs in the same way as body morphs. You can even view these morphs by opening the tri heads in os. But, the vanilla head itself has no visible weights for these morphs and mfg (facial expression) morphs to work. So I don't understand how these dice work in the game. f4ak is a havok animation resource pack for fo4. It's on the Nexus. Inside the rig archive and files for hct2014, nif importer for different versions of 3ds and a manual that also tells how to add facial expression, sound, etc. to hkx. I will upload the mixamo animations for fo4 to a file hosting service and post a link here. I don't remember where I downloaded them from.

[South8028]

https://disk.yandex.ru/d/ooAMCvmepBo69Q

[Blinxys]

@South8028

K, I tracked down f4ak earlier today as a matter of fact. :thumbsup:

Am currently in the middle of a HW storm, mostly cleaning up now. :D

Got your posted resource. going to have to double back on this over time.

Have created multiple user accounts w/ discrete fo4builds. (To prevent any bleed out/over).

Crazy thing I'm finding is the number of adjustments required just to get a "base install" for testing.

Have to start making my own collections (I'm guessing).

 

@Raiders

Did you find a solution you are happy with? If so, what was it that did the trick? :huh:

[RaidersClamoring]

 

@Raiders

Did you find a solution you are happy with? If so, what was it that did the trick? :huh:

 

I only got as far as discovering the engine does no mirroring/rotating operation on one eye vs the other at all, it simply places the textures similarly on both left and right. So no oversizing-image-file-hack can be done. I also got to inspecting one addition to The Eyes of Beauty mod, the one with heterochromia and other oddities. It turns out he split the eye meshes into two (base game has a single compound one, sharing bones) and thus the eyes have separate spatial properties to manipulate in Nifskope or elsewhere if one wishes. Rotation, displacement and so on. What this will do in the game is anyone's guess but I figured maybe if I offset one eye in some way in the base model, it might consistently veer off in one direction a bit. Never tried it. Then I got sidetracked by trying to learn C++.