New to Skyrim....Playthrough before modding?

[ArtMurder]

 

 

I would definitly use all Amidianborn armor retextures, SkyUI, SKSE, all unoficial patches (for the ones you have: Skyrim, heartfire, high resolution, dawnguard, dragonborn), Static Mesh Improvement mod (trust me, this mod makes a HUGE difference), UFO (ultimate follower overhaul) and convenient horses.

 

All these mods are super lore-friendly, and they make the game a lot more enjoyable.

I agree

 

Except I would avoid UFO at all costs, and I don't get why people still suggest it. It's badly outdated

 

UFO just got an update at the end of November. That said, having tried it, EFF and AFT, I much prefer AFT and it seems to be compatible with more of the mod companions right out of the box.

 

I know you posted in my thread too OP but my two coppers as someone who played Skyrim when about the only mods available were some face retextures and a mod to make the stupid dogs not bark every 3 seconds (and bless whoever made THAT), I didn't come close to finishing even the main story because things were buggy, clunky and not that pretty. Horses were so much of a pain I bought one and then never used it, companions would randomly disappear and wouldn't even be where their "home' supposedly was, they blundered through traps and died all the time etc.

 

I don't get purists who suggest that the game is somehow better vanilla, or should be tried vanilla. While there are certainly things you won't know you dislike until you play, just looking at screenshots is enough to know whether you feel your game will be improved by a lot of mods, or reading the description. I mean, did I need to experience vanilla to have known that I'd love to see NPCs put on hoods in the rain/seek shelter in bad weather? Nope. Did I need to experience vanilla Skyrim to know that pitiful farmer NPCs look stupid fighting dragons instead of running? Nope. That I wanted better hairstyles? Nope, not past the character creation screen anyways.

 

As someone who has a lot of patience and who had gotten experience modding Oblivion, I would absolutely have modded my game up before playing the first time if I'd had that option. I also just know some people aren't that confident about installing mods or are simply too impatient to start playing, and that's fine too -- so that's why when you asked me if you should mod, I said, "It depends.". But my personal opinion is mod your first playthrough, even if you do so conservatively. I've enjoyed my subsequent ones SO much more when mods were available.

 

oh, that's cool, it's been like, a year since it's been updated so I just got use to telling people that. lol I'll have to check it out.

 

It's not about being a "purist" in the slightest, it's about knowing what you want to fix before you try and fix it. All the problems you mentioned are very legitimate problems, and if you hadn't played the game, you wouldn't know what to fix.

 

If you don't play vanilla skyrim, you have no frame of reference for modding, this is why I suggest playing through vanilla skyrim first, instead of picking mods totally and random without any clue of what you like or don't likw about the vanilla game, and what does and doesn't need to be changed. Outside of things like SkyUI, the USKP, and maybe a few simple mods like Frostfall Imersive creatures/armors/weapons, and RND that add tons to the game without changing or removing anything about the vanilla game, I think it's pretty silly to just install mods blindly before playing the game. It's like, making changes to a cake's recipe before you ever try the cake. Yes, the cake is so much better once you make the changes to it the packaged version is totally obsolete, but odds are if you try changing it before you try the packaged version the result could be much worse then the pre-packaged version, leaving in some of the faults, adding in new ones, and having no idea what is modded and what's not is just a general unpleasant experience, it has nothing to do with "purism" at all. I like my game to feel generally pretty lore friendly, but I am by no means a "purist", just look at the mods I've uploaded if you don't believe me, i don't think any of them could be consider remotely "purist" mods. lol

[Fistandilius]

I don't get purists who suggest that the game is somehow better vanilla, or should be tried vanilla. While there are certainly things you won't know you dislike until you play, just looking at screenshots is enough to know whether you feel your game will be improved by a lot of mods, or reading the description. I mean, did I need to experience vanilla to have known that I'd love to see NPCs put on hoods in the rain/seek shelter in bad weather? Nope. Did I need to experience vanilla Skyrim to know that pitiful farmer NPCs look stupid fighting dragons instead of running? Nope. That I wanted better hairstyles? Nope, not past the character creation screen anyways.

 

As someone who has a lot of patience and who had gotten experience modding Oblivion, I would absolutely have modded my game up before playing the first time if I'd had that option. I also just know some people aren't that confident about installing mods or are simply too impatient to start playing, and that's fine too -- so that's why when you asked me if you should mod, I said, "It depends.". But my personal opinion is mod your first playthrough, even if you do so conservatively. I've enjoyed my subsequent ones SO much more when mods were available.

 

 

Yeah, it's not about being a purist. I LIKE the stock game. And I wanted to be sure I knew it inside and out before I started adding a bunch of mods with no real idea what they do. Even simple aesthetic mods like you mentioned often have little quests or changes to add the new armors to the game.

 

Like I tried to say the first time, adding mods for me wasn't about changing Skyrim, it was about adding to it. If Bethesda kept coming out with more DLC's, I would gladly keep buying them just to explore new areas. There are very few good mods out there that add more content to Skyrim and most of them focus on the aesthetic stuff that you're talking about, ENB mods, or armor mods, player homes, follower tweaks, etc. Yeah, those things are great, but they're not going to add more replay value for me. I want more areas to explore, particularly ones that don't edit the stock map too much, because quite honestly they don't make sense. You're telling me I've explored this continent for 1000 hours, and suddenly there's this cave that appears right in the middle of a road I've traveled 500 times? Unrealistic, and obviously Bethesda is guilty of it too (Dawnguard).

[Rusey]

 

oh, that's cool, it's been like, a year since it's been updated so I just got use to telling people that. lol I'll have to check it out.

 

It's not about being a "purist" in the slightest, it's about knowing what you want to fix before you try and fix it. All the problems you mentioned are very legitimate problems, and if you hadn't played the game, you wouldn't know what to fix.

 

If you don't play vanilla skyrim, you have no frame of reference for modding, this is why I suggest playing through vanilla skyrim first, instead of picking mods totally and random without any clue of what you like or don't likw about the vanilla game, and what does and doesn't need to be changed. Outside of things like SkyUI, the USKP, and maybe a few simple mods like Frostfall Imersive creatures/armors/weapons, and RND that add tons to the game without changing or removing anything about the vanilla game, I think it's pretty silly to just install mods blindly before playing the game. It's like, making changes to a cake's recipe before you ever try the cake. Yes, the cake is so much better once you make the changes to it the packaged version is totally obsolete, but odds are if you try changing it before you try the packaged version the result could be much worse then the pre-packaged version, leaving in some of the faults, adding in new ones, and having no idea what is modded and what's not is just a general unpleasant experience, it has nothing to do with "purism" at all. I like my game to feel generally pretty lore friendly, but I am by no means a "purist", just look at the mods I've uploaded if you don't believe me, i don't think any of them could be consider remotely "purist" mods. lol

 

 

Heh, I only know because when I came back to Skyrim I had just gotten done testing the other two and then realized UFO had gotten an update while I was doing that. I was a bit peeved to be honest because it meant more testing, LOL.

 

I think you and I actually share a similar philosophy from the way you've explained it here. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, particularly when you're new to both the game AND modding, to be a bit conservative. I would not start off with a crafting overhaul or anything like that in my first playthrough, but I agree that immersion mods are solid choices for a first playthrough (I too prefer lore-friendly, minus my sparkle-lips for my orc gals LOL)

 

 

I don't get purists who suggest that the game is somehow better vanilla, or should be tried vanilla. While there are certainly things you won't know you dislike until you play, just looking at screenshots is enough to know whether you feel your game will be improved by a lot of mods, or reading the description. I mean, did I need to experience vanilla to have known that I'd love to see NPCs put on hoods in the rain/seek shelter in bad weather? Nope. Did I need to experience vanilla Skyrim to know that pitiful farmer NPCs look stupid fighting dragons instead of running? Nope. That I wanted better hairstyles? Nope, not past the character creation screen anyways.

 

As someone who has a lot of patience and who had gotten experience modding Oblivion, I would absolutely have modded my game up before playing the first time if I'd had that option. I also just know some people aren't that confident about installing mods or are simply too impatient to start playing, and that's fine too -- so that's why when you asked me if you should mod, I said, "It depends.". But my personal opinion is mod your first playthrough, even if you do so conservatively. I've enjoyed my subsequent ones SO much more when mods were available.

 

 

Yeah, it's not about being a purist. I LIKE the stock game. And I wanted to be sure I knew it inside and out before I started adding a bunch of mods with no real idea what they do. Even simple aesthetic mods like you mentioned often have little quests or changes to add the new armors to the game.

 

Like I tried to say the first time, adding mods for me wasn't about changing Skyrim, it was about adding to it.

 

 

I honestly can't think of too many aesthetic mods that add quests. I'm not saying they're not out there, but 99% of the ones I've considered (I don't actually use very many) just add armor to crafting tables or occasionally stick them in a box somewhere to pick up. Good ones like Winter is Coming pop them into loot tables seamlessly. (Black Sacrament armor being an exception, it does have a quest.) Lighting/weather mods don't add quests, houses the most "quest" you get is picking up a key somewhere or buying the lease. I'm just not seeing your objection, based on that. Nobody's advocating "adding a bunch of mods with no real idea what they do." I know very well what a mod like Wet and Cold will do, and all it changes is to make NPCs act more like real people. Again, I don't need to play vanilla to know I'll like that better, or somehow dislike vanilla Skyrim to want to change that.

 

I'm all for adding to Skyrim, just bought the DLCs and while I haven't done the official quests I'm enjoying the random vampire attacks etc. and look forward to starting them soon.

 

I feel like maybe we're talking about different things. I'm not saying overhaul magic, crafting, dragon combat, difficulty, archery etc. right when you start off. Those I'd agree you DO need to experience some vanilla to know what you find lacking. But adding craftable armor? Yeah, don't need to have seen vanilla for that.

[Fistandilius]

 

I honestly can't think of too many aesthetic mods that add quests. I'm not saying they're not out there, but 99% of the ones I've considered (I don't actually use very many) just add armor to crafting tables or occasionally stick them in a box somewhere to pick up. Good ones like Winter is Coming pop them into loot tables seamlessly. (Black Sacrament armor being an exception, it does have a quest.) Lighting/weather mods don't add quests, houses the most "quest" you get is picking up a key somewhere or buying the lease. I'm just not seeing your objection, based on that. Nobody's advocating "adding a bunch of mods with no real idea what they do." I know very well what a mod like Wet and Cold will do, and all it changes is to make NPCs act more like real people. Again, I don't need to play vanilla to know I'll like that better, or somehow dislike vanilla Skyrim to want to change that.

 

I'm all for adding to Skyrim, just bought the DLCs and while I haven't done the official quests I'm enjoying the random vampire attacks etc. and look forward to starting them soon.

 

I feel like maybe we're talking about different things. I'm not saying overhaul magic, crafting, dragon combat, difficulty, archery etc. right when you start off. Those I'd agree you DO need to experience some vanilla to know what you find lacking. But adding craftable armor? Yeah, don't need to have seen vanilla for that.

 

 

I didn't mean just quests, I'm talking about general game changes. For example Immersive armors changes a bunch of npc armors, (and in some cases makes it very hard to find the stock armors) some armor mods add chests the armor is in, some deposit them in areas, even the ones that are simple forge recipes sometimes add special types of ingots or use something that you wouldn't generally pick up in the stock game. These things change the game whether or not you think it's a major change. And that's only using armors as an example.

 

I'm not here to tell anyone what to do, I'm giving MY advice on how I did it. If I was doing a youtube video and I couldn't tell the difference between stock and a mod and someone called me on it, I would feel like a real tool. But I see these mod reviewers do it on a regular basis.

[Bart1965]

Thanks for all the comments! I respect the idea of getting to know the vanilla game, but I know from my experience with Oblivion that modders can make some things so much *better,* not just different. I'm reading the Redlosts' guide for noobs and will probably install some of the mods that are undisputed improvements over weak points in vanilla - like SkyUI and Convenient Horses, for example - and leave the DLCs and expansion mods and overhauls (like Falskaar and SkyRe, to name two I've read about) until later.

 

What about combat system mods? Would you all suggest any of the mods like Duel, Deadly Combat, or Duke Patrick's as clear improvements in fighting, for an RPG-type player? I am, to be honest, a slow-fingered and occasional gamer - it took me a long time to learn how to survive vanilla combat in Oblivion at even default difficulty - and not interested in systems that demand lots of quick button combinations. Would you suggest any combat mod that's clearly better than vanilla, while being simple and intuitive? I don't see the point of having to learn how to fight twice!

[ArtMurder]

 

oh, that's cool, it's been like, a year since it's been updated so I just got use to telling people that. lol I'll have to check it out.

 

It's not about being a "purist" in the slightest, it's about knowing what you want to fix before you try and fix it. All the problems you mentioned are very legitimate problems, and if you hadn't played the game, you wouldn't know what to fix.

 

If you don't play vanilla skyrim, you have no frame of reference for modding, this is why I suggest playing through vanilla skyrim first, instead of picking mods totally and random without any clue of what you like or don't likw about the vanilla game, and what does and doesn't need to be changed. Outside of things like SkyUI, the USKP, and maybe a few simple mods like Frostfall Imersive creatures/armors/weapons, and RND that add tons to the game without changing or removing anything about the vanilla game, I think it's pretty silly to just install mods blindly before playing the game. It's like, making changes to a cake's recipe before you ever try the cake. Yes, the cake is so much better once you make the changes to it the packaged version is totally obsolete, but odds are if you try changing it before you try the packaged version the result could be much worse then the pre-packaged version, leaving in some of the faults, adding in new ones, and having no idea what is modded and what's not is just a general unpleasant experience, it has nothing to do with "purism" at all. I like my game to feel generally pretty lore friendly, but I am by no means a "purist", just look at the mods I've uploaded if you don't believe me, i don't think any of them could be consider remotely "purist" mods. lol

Heh, I only know because when I came back to Skyrim I had just gotten done testing the other two and then realized UFO had gotten an update while I was doing that. I was a bit peeved to be honest because it meant more testing, LOL.

 

I think you and I actually share a similar philosophy from the way you've explained it here. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea, particularly when you're new to both the game AND modding, to be a bit conservative. I would not start off with a crafting overhaul or anything like that in my first playthrough, but I agree that immersion mods are solid choices for a first playthrough (I too prefer lore-friendly, minus my sparkle-lips for my orc gals LOL)

 

 

I don't get purists who suggest that the game is somehow better vanilla, or should be tried vanilla. While there are certainly things you won't know you dislike until you play, just looking at screenshots is enough to know whether you feel your game will be improved by a lot of mods, or reading the description. I mean, did I need to experience vanilla to have known that I'd love to see NPCs put on hoods in the rain/seek shelter in bad weather? Nope. Did I need to experience vanilla Skyrim to know that pitiful farmer NPCs look stupid fighting dragons instead of running? Nope. That I wanted better hairstyles? Nope, not past the character creation screen anyways.

 

As someone who has a lot of patience and who had gotten experience modding Oblivion, I would absolutely have modded my game up before playing the first time if I'd had that option. I also just know some people aren't that confident about installing mods or are simply too impatient to start playing, and that's fine too -- so that's why when you asked me if you should mod, I said, "It depends.". But my personal opinion is mod your first playthrough, even if you do so conservatively. I've enjoyed my subsequent ones SO much more when mods were available.

Yeah, it's not about being a purist. I LIKE the stock game. And I wanted to be sure I knew it inside and out before I started adding a bunch of mods with no real idea what they do. Even simple aesthetic mods like you mentioned often have little quests or changes to add the new armors to the game.

 

Like I tried to say the first time, adding mods for me wasn't about changing Skyrim, it was about adding to it.

 

I honestly can't think of too many aesthetic mods that add quests. I'm not saying they're not out there, but 99% of the ones I've considered (I don't actually use very many) just add armor to crafting tables or occasionally stick them in a box somewhere to pick up. Good ones like Winter is Coming pop them into loot tables seamlessly. (Black Sacrament armor being an exception, it does have a quest.) Lighting/weather mods don't add quests, houses the most "quest" you get is picking up a key somewhere or buying the lease. I'm just not seeing your objection, based on that. Nobody's advocating "adding a bunch of mods with no real idea what they do." I know very well what a mod like Wet and Cold will do, and all it changes is to make NPCs act more like real people. Again, I don't need to play vanilla to know I'll like that better, or somehow dislike vanilla Skyrim to want to change that.

 

I'm all for adding to Skyrim, just bought the DLCs and while I haven't done the official quests I'm enjoying the random vampire attacks etc. and look forward to starting them soon.

 

I feel like maybe we're talking about different things. I'm not saying overhaul magic, crafting, dragon combat, difficulty, archery etc. right when you start off. Those I'd agree you DO need to experience some vanilla to know what you find lacking. But adding craftable armor? Yeah, don't need to have seen vanilla for that.

 

Yeah, anything overhauls aren't that great in a first play through, I mean, why overhaul something till you know you don't like it? XD

 

Though Frostfall is technically an overhaul type mod, I guess I just have a bias fondness for frostfall! I have recently! I couldn't and wouldn't ever consider playing without it! I recently fell in love with "Dynamic Things", allowing me to actually wack trees with my axe to gather wood! XD

[Rusey]

 

If I was doing a youtube video and I couldn't tell the difference between stock and a mod and someone called me on it, I would feel like a real tool. But I see these mod reviewers do it on a regular basis.

 

 

Lol, you make a fair point on this one :) And I'm not trying to convince you you're wrong, by the way. I think sometimes I come across more argumentative than I mean to. I'm just saying I PERSONALLY don't share the sentiment. You have, however, convinced me to give some of the "adds new areas" mods a look once I'm done with the main story this time around. I usually don't load those up unless they're official DLCs.

 

What about combat system mods? Would you all suggest any of the mods like Duel, Deadly Combat, or Duke Patrick's as clear improvements in fighting, for an RPG-type player? I am, to be honest, a slow-fingered and occasional gamer - it took me a long time to learn how to survive vanilla combat in Oblivion at even default difficulty - and not interested in systems that demand lots of quick button combinations. Would you suggest any combat mod that's clearly better than vanilla, while being simple and intuitive? I don't see the point of having to learn how to fight twice!

 

The only combat change I've used is Dragon Combat Overhaul which adds some randomness/nice physics to dragons. I've only fought a couple of dragons since but so far I like it. Vanilla dragons were pretty meh for me.

 

I'm not a powergamer though and I'm the type who will wear inferior armor if I like the looks better so I'm pretty illiterate on combat overhauls. I know there are several magic ones out there that let the power of spells scale with getting stronger in a particular school. I might look into some of those for a mage playthrough since I like the idea of an illusionist but vanilla illusion is very clunky.

 

Yeah, anything overhauls aren't that great in a first play through, I mean, why overhaul something till you know you don't like it? XD

 

Though Frostfall is technically an overhaul type mod, I guess I just have a bias fondness for frostfall! I have recently! I couldn't and wouldn't ever consider playing without it! I recently fell in love with "Dynamic Things", allowing me to actually wack trees with my axe to gather wood! XD

 

 

Frostfall is so non-invasive though since you can tweak every value or turn it off completely. I agree though, I can't imagine playing without it now. I will have to check out Dynamic Things :3

[Fistandilius]

 

Yeah, anything overhauls aren't that great in a first play through, I mean, why overhaul something till you know you don't like it? XD

 

Which is why I advocate waiting on the mods. If you play the stock game and you like it, play it for a while and enjoy it. The mods aren't going anywhere. Then if stock Skyrim gets boring, then you have something to extend your game play. If you just jump in and load a bunch of mods, what are you going to do when you find the mods boring? Go back to stock Skyrim? Doubtful. I'll tell you what most people do, unless they become modders themselves. They either jump on here making a bunch of mod requests, or they put the game away because they're bored with it.

[Rusey]

I would be far more likely to be bored with clunky vanilla than with mods I hand-picked because they specifically interested me. I mean, people don't load mods that they think look boring.

 

Bethesda half-asses a lot of stuff knowing full well modders will do the polishing for them. I just don't see denying yourself a polished experience out of the gate. Why would I play a character with a funky, blocky face and uninspired hairstyle when I could play the first time around with smoother face models and appealing hair? While fighting the horrible console UI that they didn't bother to update for PCs? And that's just the most basic example. Yeah, the game might still be fun with a blocky-faced character, and I got by with the default UI at launch. But it's sure more fun without having to deal with that, and I would leave with a much more positive view of the game (and be much more likely to do a replay).

 

I dunno, maybe you load up playthrough after playthrough after playthrough over and over, but I suspect most people don't immediately start all over as soon as they complete the main story. So a full do-over witih mods right after a full vanilla is probably unlikely. Imo, do it right the first time.

[Fistandilius]

I would be far more likely to be bored with clunky vanilla than with mods I hand-picked because they specifically interested me. I mean, people don't load mods that they think look boring.

 

Bethesda half-asses a lot of stuff knowing full well modders will do the polishing for them. I just don't see denying yourself a polished experience out of the gate. Why would I play a character with a funky, blocky face and uninspired hairstyle when I could play the first time around with smoother face models and appealing hair? While fighting the horrible console UI that they didn't bother to update for PCs? And that's just the most basic example. Yeah, the game might still be fun with a blocky-faced character, and I got by with the default UI at launch. But it's sure more fun without having to deal with that, and I would leave with a much more positive view of the game (and be much more likely to do a replay).

 

I dunno, maybe you load up playthrough after playthrough after playthrough over and over, but I suspect most people don't immediately start all over as soon as they complete the main story. So a full do-over witih mods right after a full vanilla is probably unlikely. Imo, do it right the first time.

 

Yeah, you and I will never see eye to eye on this one. I don't think stock Skyrim looks bad, and I play with a gamepad like it was written for. I like the stock game. Game play is way more important to me than graphics to begin with.