NPC's Won't Stop Blocking

[boogiebot257]

This is crossposted from a Reddit thread I made on r/skyrimmods hoping to get help there, too. Nothing has developed since I made that thread, though, I'm no closer to solving this. The only thing that's changed is what methods I've used to diagnose the problem, none of which have made the bug more consistent or made the source more obvious. Those methods, for the sake of completeness, include multiple flavors of new games and turning off each section of my modlist no matter how unrelated to the problem they seem.

 

This is one of those classic "I've been troubleshooting this for days and still haven't found the solution" problems. I came back to Skyrim a bit ago, started updating and building my modlist from mid last year (after downgrading to 1.6.353) , and I've squashed pretty much every bug I've encountered so far, except for this one thing: sometimes (and I emphasize, SOMETIMES) NPC's using one handed weapons (whether one handed alone or with a shield) will start blocking and then never stop.

Originally, I was writing this post with the idea that it was Valravn doing this, but just to drive home how bad this bug is and how bad the false positives it gives me are, as I was writing this I loaded a test with it off just to make sure I was thorough with what I knew, and got the bug to happen immediately. I've left the rest of the post as it was written unabridged, but bare in mind, I do not believe it's Valravn anymore.

I've seemingly narrowed the problem down to Valravn, as turning it off seems to make the bug go away. However, if I start a completely vanilla install and put Valravn in, then the bug doesn't happen, which leads me to think it's a mod conflict. What mod, however, I'm at my wit's end trying to find.

My process for trying to troubleshoot this is to find a group of enemies (I tried primarily with the Corsairs at the Dainty Sload, as with another mod, they always wield cutlasses one handed, as well as with bandit camps in Whiterun) and stand there or fight them 3-5 times (reloading after defeating them) to see if it happens. The rate at which the problem happens, which seems to fluctuate inconsistently, has created a lot of false positives where I think I've narrowed the problem down (like when I thought it HAD to be Precision or AI Overhaul or my Smashed Patch or even Helps To Have a Compass was causing the problem) and then find out that's not the problem. The sheer inconsistency of this issue has lead me to question if it even actually doesn't happen with Valravn disabled (IT DOES) or if I've just gotten lucky and every test has avoided the bug (THEY HAD).

I've eliminated a few obvious suspects from the list (ones that stick out as having something--anything--to do with blocking), these were the first mods I tried:

AI Overhaul SSE, Animated Armory, Precision, Smart NPC Potions, Realistic AI Detection, Enemies Follow me, Simple Weapon Swing Parry, Simple Dual Wield and Unarmed Block, Shield of Stamina, Injured Animations Dynamic Replacer SE, and Seeking Out Sneaks

I've checked, and Valravn doesn't have any seeming conflict with anything in my modlist, and I've set it both at the top and at the bottom of my load order with seemingly no difference. I've checked pretty much every mod in my Gameplay section in MO2 to no avail. I've replaced my Valravn esp with one from my archive just on the off-chance I modified it without remembering and messed something up.

At this point, I now know it's not Valravn, but have no idea what mod is causing it. I know it's cliche to say "it could be anything" but I legitimately traced a problem with dragon AI to Loot and Degredation SE last year, a mod which has NOTHING to do with dragons, so with that dark knowledge, it really could be anything. Any help or pointers is appreciated.

My modlist (I know that there are conflicting mods enabled, such as Dragon War with other dragon overhauls and two different mods that make you pick up books instead of reading them. I've noticed these and have since fixed them, including getting compatability patches I didn't have, but these have had no effect (I've also checked, they're not the problem) (Smashed Patch and Dyndolod are also not included because I got sick of turning them off to test things)): https://pastebin.com/h8Gt8x3C

My loadorder: https://pastebin.com/EMKabmdm

My inis: https://pastebin.com/rrPuwGSi

[boogiebot257]

I just wanted to update real quick, that I thought I found a method of diagnosis where I save the game when I see the bug happen, and reload that save. The permanent blocking persists through loading, so with that knowledge, I started aggressively turning off every single thing I had in my modlist that I could turn off without it crashing my game. At the end of this, the bug was still persisting. This could mean a number of things, like that it's a mod affecting a vanilla function and making it permanent in a save, or that a deep, deep thing somewhere is getting messed up, or...honestly, at this point, it could mean something is screwed in my MO2.

 

This is the toughest bug I've ever had to fight.This is insane. Please, please help me.

[Algabar]

I know how frustrating troubleshooting can be. I feel with you.

 

Unfortunately, I don't really have an idea, just a question for clarification:

 

Did you test with a new game? If the problem occurs with a fresh start, too, it's almost certainly a mod issue. If it doesn't, it's probably an issue with your save game.

That might help to narrow down things a bit.

[boogiebot257]

I know how frustrating troubleshooting can be. I feel with you.

 

Unfortunately, I don't really have an idea, just a question for clarification:

 

Did you test with a new game? If the problem occurs with a fresh start, too, it's almost certainly a mod issue. If it doesn't, it's probably an issue with your save game.

That might help to narrow down things a bit.

Yes, indeed. I've tried with several new games, and the persisting save method. The new games have ranged from including all mods, including some mods, and including nearly no mods. I haven't quite been able to figure much from the last type, as the bug is so inconsistent that it will sometimes not appear even in my most thorough testing methods of multiple bandit camps and dungeons.

[Algabar]

So, we're very likely talking about a mod problem here. If the bug occurs even in a new game, it's definitely there in teh game - not just in your save.

 

There's one thing you can try to at least get a clue about what mods might be involved:

 

In game, open the console and click on one of the bandits, that shows the bug. You should get a "Ref ID" (a combination of numbers and letters, actually it's a number in hex code). Write down that Ref ID.

 

Now close the game and open SSEEdit and let it load all of your mods.

 

Once this is done, search for the Ref ID you wrote down before (search box in the upper left corner).

 

If you click on the actor's name in the left pane, SSEEdit should show you all plugins, that make changes to that NPC, in the right pane.

 

Conflicting data is marked with colors. Red means "this gets overwritten by a mod", green means "no conflicts" with this record and "brownish green" means "there are conflicts, but this record wins".

 

Depending on the data you get, this might give you a hint, which plugins deserve a closer look. You might even get an idea, what might be the problem.

 

Depending on the results, there are different strategies for solving the problem, mainly changes of your load order or creating a patch. What you could or should do, depends on what you get from SSEEdit. But at least you might get an idea...

[boogiebot257]

So, we're very likely talking about a mod problem here. If the bug occurs even in a new game, it's definitely there in teh game - not just in your save.

 

There's one thing you can try to at least get a clue about what mods might be involved:

 

In game, open the console and click on one of the bandits, that shows the bug. You should get a "Ref ID" (a combination of numbers and letters, actually it's a number in hex code). Write down that Ref ID.

 

Now close the game and open SSEEdit and let it load all of your mods.

 

Once this is done, search for the Ref ID you wrote down before (search box in the upper left corner).

 

If you click on the actor's name in the left pane, SSEEdit should show you all plugins, that make changes to that NPC, in the right pane.

 

Conflicting data is marked with colors. Red means "this gets overwritten by a mod", green means "no conflicts" with this record and "brownish green" means "there are conflicts, but this record wins".

 

Depending on the data you get, this might give you a hint, which plugins deserve a closer look. You might even get an idea, what might be the problem.

 

Depending on the results, there are different strategies for solving the problem, mainly changes of your load order or creating a patch. What you could or should do, depends on what you get from SSEEdit. But at least you might get an idea...

Unfortunately, this doesn't give me much to work with. I do use More Informative Console, which already tells me what mod a thing is from without having to cross-reference ID's, very helpful! Sadly, clicking on an enemy who is suffering the bug, it just tells me it's from Skyrim.esm. No other information that might help, seemingly. No info to be gleaned from SSEEdit in this case, either. Looking up the FormID, it's the bandit, and nothing is overwriting it.

[7531Leonidas]

Are there any mods that affect the detection of enemies? It might just be that something is telling them they are being attacked, or triggers their defensive AI. I use Nether's Follower Framework, and there is a command and/or hotkey to tell your followers to stand down. Anything like that might help stop the blocking bug once it starts.

 

These mods kind of jumped out at me from your mod list:

vanilla script optimizations - maybe something is running too fast?

the Reputation stuff...

Seeking Out Sneaks

 

just WAG, but still.

[anjenthedog]

Check their stats to make sure they didn't somehow (glitch, foolish choices while assigning them their party role, etc) get gimped in the aggression department.

 

Also, they *are provided weapons they can use within their assigned class, right?